Fighting the Wrong Battle: Public Persuaded About CO2 As Pollutant – Not As Cause of Warming

Guest essay by Dr. Tim Ball

Skeptics are winning the battle to reject CO2 as the only cause of warming, but losing the war to the misrepresentation of CO2 as a pollutant.

Some people generally know there is something wrong with claims of human created global warming or climate change, but governments, business, industry, mainstream media and AGW advocates succeed in the push for reduction of CO2 as a pollutant without protest from the public. All this despite massive and completely unnecessary costs.

Political advocates of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) set out to demonize CO2. They successfully shifted away from global warming to climate change and on to pollution when the Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) hypothesis began to fail. Influential AGW proponents like James Hansen thought skeptics were winning the climate debate so he began talking about coal “death trains”. Obama’s “carbon pollution” is scientifically wrong but works by frightening the public. His attack on the coal industry gets little opposition outside of coal producing States. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) proceeds with Supreme Court blessing as they limit a “harmful substance”.

It’s increasingly ineffective to explain what is wrong with the climate science. It is necessary to show that the switch to falsely calling it a pollutant became necessary to perpetuate the goal of eliminating fossil fuels. Most people don’t make the link and are turned against CO2 as a pollutant by the effective PR campaign.

Competing with PR experts.

Mr. Justice Burton’s October 2007 ruling on the showing of Gore’s docudrama An Inconvenient Truth in the classroom wrote,

The context and nub of the dispute are the statutory provisions described in their side headings as respectively relating to “political indoctrination” and to the “duty to secure balanced treatment of political issues” in schools,

This is the battle as the counterattack by promoters of AGW proceeds. People who question the hypothesis and science, especially as manifest in the IPCC Reports, are attacked as skeptics and deniers, who are framed as apparently willfully lying for a political agenda paid for by coal and oil companies. The public is told not to believe these deceivers because of their funding, the debate is over, the science is settled and failure to support immediate political action makes them intransigent and complicit in pollution of the planet. Gore’s movie was a major part of the deception. It was a successful piece of propaganda produced in Hollywood, a world center for telling stories to the public. Justice Burton wrote in his judgment,

I viewed the film at the parties’ request. Although I can only express an opinion as a viewer rather than as a judge, it is plainly, as witnessed by the fact that it received an Oscar this year for best documentary film, a powerful, dramatically presented and highly professionally produced film. It is built round the charismatic presence of the ex-Vice-President, Al Gore, whose crusade it now is to persuade the world of the dangers of climate change caused by global warming. It is now common ground that it is not simply a science film – although it is clear that it is based substantially on scientific research and opinion – but that it is a political film, albeit of course not party political. Its theme is not merely the fact that there is global warming, and that there is a powerful case that such global warming is caused by man, but that urgent, and if necessary expensive and inconvenient, steps must be taken to counter it, many of which are spelt out.

No wonder the public are confused. Any responses to Gore’s movie relying solely on science are seriously challenged. I’ve been involved in this debate often. One example involved helping a group of retired scientists set up Friends of Science. They chose a purely scientific approach science partly because of being from Calgary and Alberta a center of fossil fuel production, but also as scientists they wanted facts and logic. They do a good job, but mostly for those who understand science.

The simplistic deceptions of PR have been a major and effective tool. DeSmogBlog was the brainchild of James Hoggan, Board Chairman of the David Suzuki Foundation and President of a PR firm. In a December 2011 email to Michael Mann, DeSmogBlog writer Richard Littlemore says:

(as I am sure you have noticed: we’re all about PR here, not much about science).

Mann’s 2004 email to CRU Director Phil Jones confirms the PR connection of CRU/IPCC science. Confronted by challenging questions, they apparently developed a defensive mentality:

I’ve personally stopped responding to these, they’re going to get a few of these op-ed pieces out here and there, but the important thing is to make sure they’re loosing [sic] the PR battle. That’s what the site (Realclimate) is about. By the way Gavin (Schmidt) did come up w/ the name.

To overcome the combination of political PR and falsified climate science, people need to know answers to the basic questions of journalism; who, what, when, where and why it was done. Only “what” is addressed by explaining the science.

Stage of Evolution In Unveiling Misuse of Climate Science

Mahatma Gandhi said, First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. I’ve experienced all phases so far in the climate issue and believe we’re in the “fight” stage. For AGW proponents this involves grabbing headlines that backfire, such as John Holdren’s video that claimed the cold (polar vortex) is due to warming, or playing the “victim” card when evidence, like the hockey stick, is already known to the public. Paradoxically, it is counterproductive for those AGW proponents fighting because it accelerates the final stage. A comment after a presentation is I had my suspicions, but I didnt know enough to know. Extreme and illogical claims help the public move to the final stage. However, critical issues common for the public, like fear and lack of knowledge, must be recognized and addressed first. Global warming deception creators effectively exploited both, as people are learning. Now people are asking other questions and they raise other concerns. Who did it, how, and why?

The switch to climate change from global warming accompanied an increase in the claims of CO2 as a pollutant. PR agents through Gore and others convinced the world it was and President Obama reinforces it with the term ”carbon pollution”. This illustrates why attempts to help the public understand the science of climate change is unworkable. CO2 continues its hold because the public believes it is a pollutant. This happens because a majority proudly avoids science; can’t believe a small group could influence and fool the world; or that scientists would be subjective and political.

The person who understood these issues leaked the emails from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU). From over 220,000 emails only 1000 were selected for a strategic release to undermine advancing the political agenda at the Conference of the Parties (COP) 15 in Copenhagen. That selection takes knowledge of the science, the participants and their activities, but more important what the public would understand. Focus was on malfeasance, including references to science with words like “hide” and “trick” used by the participants. Even now very few understand the science or statistics of the hockey stick. The emails provide a picture of vindictiveness, defensiveness, and malicious personal attacks that most could understand were problematic. Apparently the whistleblower knew that the COP makes decisions based on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) findings. Most of the people at the CRU were also effectively in control of the IPCC so disclosure dammed both. Most COP participants are bureaucrats, politicians and NGOs so disclosures required that they were the same as those for the public.

The Time For Explanations

After challenging the prevailing wisdom of a simplistic ongoing global cooling trend in the 1970s I became more opposed to the simplistic trend prediction of global warming after the 1980s. From the start I made public presentations of what was wrong with the science to hundreds of groups and learned quickly what people knew and understood.

The pattern followed Gandhi’s pattern and public response changed as events altered how they were listening. It paralleled phone-in radio programs, which had 99 percent hostile calls through the 1990s. I learned that when I was on Greenpeace and others would line up people to call in. The solution was to bypass the first 20 calls. Nowadays there are rarely more than one or two hostile calls or emails about CO2 as a greenhouse gas, but most express concern about CO2 as a pollutant.

I waited a few years to publish my book The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science because the public was not ready. Most are still not ready for a pure science expose. I believe they are ready now for a different approach as the pattern changes once again, but that also means they are asking different questions. Now they want to know who orchestrated the deception, how was it achieved, and most important what was the motive.

This is just one more step in the effort to counteract the anti – CO2 industry. It will be difficult because so many people are involved in perpetuating the “CO2 is a pollutant” myth.

Who knew and who just participated?

My template for the book was the basic objectives of the CRU whistleblower. This means there is not enough detail to satisfy any specialist group or special interest group, but enough to help the public understand what was done and why. It is a generalist book about the corruption and misuse of a generalist discipline – climatology for a political agenda. Very few people involved knew little about what was going on, and there were millions. A brief list of most participants direct or indirect who created the myth of CO2 and will oppose its debunking follows;

1. The Core Group of scientists mostly at or linked to the CRU at the University of East Anglia (UEA). The leaked emails explain everything you need to know about this group. They knew what they were doing as reference to the “Cause” identifies. They developed a classic case of Groupthink.

Groupthink, a term coined by social psychologist Irving Janis (1972), occurs when a group makes faulty decisions because group pressures lead to a deterioration of “mental efficiency, reality testing, and moral judgment” (p. 9). Groups affected by groupthink ignore alternatives and tend to take irrational actions that dehumanize other groups. A group is especially vulnerable to groupthink when its members are similar in background, when the group is insulated from outside opinions, and when there are no clear rules for decision making.

This group was closely linked to the United Kingdom Meteorological Office (UKMO) Hadley Centre as they are today; witness the data sets produced by HadCRUT. The connection to America was through former CRU director Tom Wigley and CRU graduates like Benjamin Santer.

2. The group assembled by Maurice Strong to control the political and science agenda of global warming for the political agenda through the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP). This included bureaucrats of every national weather office through the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) who selected national scientists for the IPCC. Chief among these were UKMO, Environment Canada (EC), and NOAA. Most of them had no idea what was going on, but it was a nice secure bureaucratic job. Most knew the perils of stepping out of line. Three EC employees told me after a presentation in Winnipeg a few years ago that they agreed with me, but dare not say so. Direct participation in IPCC was as Richard Lindzen explained,

IPCC’s emphasis, however, isn’t on getting qualified scientists, but on getting representatives from over 100 countries, said Lindzen. The truth is only a handful of countries do quality climate research. Most of the so-called experts served merely to pad the number

It is no small matter that routine weather service functionaries from New Zealand to Tanzania are referred to as ‘the world’s leading climate scientists.’ It should come as no surprise that they will be determinedly supportive of the process.

Once a bureaucracy is established or assigned a task it almost guarantees it is not going to solve the problem. Rather, it will evolve to perpetuate its own existence. In the case of climate, bureaucratic science experts confronted politicians who dared to question. Once the nations weather office adopted the IPCC position it became national policy. Then all other branches of government were required to do their planning based on this official climate position.

3. Maurice Strong resurrected the Non-government Organizations (NGO) for the 1992 Rio Conference. Of the 8,375 attendees at the recent COP 19 in Warsaw 3,031 were NGOs. Why wasn’t business and industry given such a prominent place?

4. Whenever business or industry was involved they only participated because they could benefit. They were open to government largesse and guarantees and worked to support politicians who practiced “crony capitalism”. One of the most dramatic self-serving meetings occurred in 1997 at the White House between President Clinton, VP Gore, and CEOs Ken Lay of Enron and Lord Browne of BP.

5. A change in research funding evolved almost coincident with emergence of global warming. Universities stretched for income realized they could reasonably add a fee for services, which was built into the funding application. The mantra for advancement changed from ‘publish or perish’ to ‘bring funding or perish’. Academics from all disciplines learned how to enter keywords to trigger a positive result in request for funding. In the 1990s I joked about seeking a connection between climate and AIDS to almost guarantee funding.

6. Tacit support through silence was a major strength exploited by those pushing the IPCC agenda. Many were bullied into silence partly because they watched those who dared to ask questions vilified and marginalized. The silence of this group facilitated the claims of consensus.

7. The mainstream media, more than any other group failed society and worse became a platform and promoter of the deception. The US Founding Fathers believed a free press was essential to exposing deception or attempts at control. Two publications were central to the failure, the New York Times and the Guardian. Complicity of their involvement and compromise of journalistic principles were exposed when reporter’s names appeared in the leaked CRU emails.

It was a child who said the emperor had no clothes – the adults recoiled in horror expecting retribution. Edmund Burke said The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. It is very difficult to identify evil when you don’t understand the subject, it is a deliberate delusion and it is wrapped in the cloak of saving the planet and the children.

Failed predictions, cold weather and illogical responses were amplified by the “child” replacement, the Internet. Marshall McLuhan said, “The medium is the message. The Internet provided the ideal medium for democratizing information. Web pages like WUWT provided a forum for millions to question challenge and do what the media should have been doing. They significantly assisted in the exposure of CO2 climate science, but AGW proponents moved on to pollution.

Skeptics won the CO2 climate battle but are losing the CO2 is pollution war. Massively expensive, debilitating but completely unnecessary taxes, rules and restrictions will continue until the public understands that CO2 is not a pollutant. This will take a long time as too many people with power like President Obama or in powerful positions like bureaucrats in national weather agencies and thereby all areas of government are invested in maintaining the falsehood.

Appropriate Quotes detailing the challenge:

Voltaire:

As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.

It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.

Epictetus:

It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows.

Upton Sinclair:

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!

Tolstoy:

“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

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ferdberple
February 5, 2014 6:22 pm

good catch:
Obama is crusading against emissions of one specific compound of carbon, namely carbon dioxide. Ignoring the oxygen atoms and calling CO2 “carbon” makes about as much sense as ignoring the oxygen in water and calling it “hydrogen.”
========
garymount says:
February 5, 2014 at 4:35 pm
http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/Opinion+Climate+rhetoric+undermines+rational+decision/9469309/story.html

ferdberple
February 5, 2014 6:25 pm

Tanya Aardman says:
February 5, 2014 at 3:54 pm
It was an American Trade Union Leader about 30 years before him.
=========
name? I often quote other people. It doesn’t mean I didn’t say it. It just means I didn’t say it first. I expect if you truly examine every important quote, in nearly every case somebody else actually said it first. The attribution is to the person who made it sound important.

February 5, 2014 6:29 pm

David L. Hagen says:
February 5, 2014 at 3:42 pm
Berényi Péter
“Re: “Carbon dioxide is not listed among pollutants in the Clean Air Act…”
I’m sorry, I read your post, but the EPA, The Supreme Court, and the President of the United States has labeled CO2 as a pollutant. They sometimes refer to it as Carbon, or Carbon Pollution…

ferdberple
February 5, 2014 6:29 pm

Pat Frank says:
February 5, 2014 at 2:59 pm
I still don’t understand how the scientific organizations were brought into line:
===========
follow the money. if you pay people $1 million to only have one eye, one arm, and one leg, within a very few years your will have thousands of people with only one eye, one arm, and one leg.

Jens Bagh
February 5, 2014 6:42 pm

Warning.
Has the EPA ever considered the threat they are posing to the American Way of Life?
Where would the United States of America be without two of the major constituents of daily life, beer and bread?
Neither can be manufactured without producing significant volumes of that horrid noxious gas known as CO2. Are the voters in the United States to be left without say in this matter?
Are the Americans ready to be deprived of beer, bread and all other fermentation products?

February 5, 2014 7:04 pm

A few years ago I suggested a bumper sticker:
CO2 Is Good for Plants, Good for the Earth, and Good for You!
Maybe it’s time to print some up.
Tim Ball: I appreciate your arguments and agree entirely, but I hope your book will lay out the history in a more systematic fashion. Here, you seemed to be jumping around; but maybe I was just being impatient.
Eric Simpson: Re HotAir: I followed Ed Morrissey there, when he closed his excellent Captain’s Quarters blog and joined the HotAir staff (they opened registration for CQ fans). I occasionally post there, but I’ve found that the volume of comments, and the prevalence of one-liners, is not conducive to meaningful discussion. For conservative talk, I prefer PowerLine. Steve Hayward there is, of course, a WUWT devotée.
/Mr Lynn

Brian H
February 5, 2014 7:12 pm

“dammed both” No rivers involved, Tim. Damned both, dang it.
To all Defenders of the Atmosphere:
You’re all exhaling 40,000 ppm carbon pollution! Stop it, hypocrites!

curly
February 5, 2014 7:12 pm

Walter Allensworth wrote:

An I don’t think, for one minute, that the current President of the United States is ignorant.

I’m not buying that one. He doesn’t care whether it’s scientifically true/accurate/honest or not — he’s willfully ignorant at best. It suits his goals at the moment. Is he stupid? Hard to tell. Is he shrewd? Little doubt; he’s getting what he wants, or what he’s been told what he wants all his life. Affirmative action in the USA is a dangerous, destructive thing, with the best intentions, of course.
Most of the US Supremes (the court, not the old girl group) seem to be savants in the technicalities of US law, with large missing pieces in general knowledge, huge gaps in basic science knowledge, and little “common sense”.

Brian H
February 5, 2014 7:23 pm

Jaakko Kateenkorva says:
February 5, 2014 at 1:21 pm

Obama … risks … undermining his own credibility.

How do you undermine a hole?

farmerbraun
February 5, 2014 7:33 pm

If I add pulverised brown coal or lignite to my light , sandy soil , in order to increase the exchange capacity , will that also be “carbon pollution”?

February 5, 2014 8:35 pm

Why has there not been a massive class action law suite against the EPA for mislabeling a beneficial trace molecular gas costing the economy billions? Seems like it could be the easiest court room victory in history.

Chad Wozniak
February 5, 2014 10:18 pm

Wide public belief that carbon dioxide is a pollutant is a product of the failure of elementary school science education, which should have taught everyone that carbon dioxide is essential to plant life and therefore to everything that depends on plant life.
Still, it is mind boggling that something so grossly irrational should be accepted unquestioningly by anyone, especially anyone with even the least education.

mickgreenhough
February 5, 2014 10:43 pm

Dear Sir, CO2 is vital requirement for the growth of corn etc. The more CO2 in the air the greater the yield of wheat. see  http://www.threeuroprobe.org/ 2012 – 015  The Great Global Warming Fraud.
Mick G

February 5, 2014 11:07 pm

Chad; The problem is too much education! These people have been educated way beyond their intelligence.
“Those that can, learn. those that can’t must be taught.” pg

John in Oz
February 6, 2014 12:29 am

2 other commonly trotted out mis-directions are:
– humans are adding xxGT of CO2 to the atmosphere without specifying that this is about 3% of the total and that Nature adds the other 97%, making our contribution miniscule in the scheme of things and
– starting with comments about CO2 then morphing to ‘carbon’ as if they are the same thing.

February 6, 2014 1:09 am

i find it very hard to understand why the people who post here have zero understanding of what is happening. The world is getting more heat retained. Why ? the result is ?. Now please people thing it is not about you it is about your grand grand kids. Yes u do not give a care about us but just think about those in 40 to 70 years onward. Do you care? that is my question

Gail Combs
February 6, 2014 2:00 am

davidg says:
February 5, 2014 at 2:25 pm
Jimbo says CO2 is a dangerous trace gas. Maybe his name should be Dumbo….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jimbo is being sarcastic. Click on the links provided.

Vince Causey
February 6, 2014 2:06 am

Keep the masses ignorant and they’ll believe anything.
Do you think it is a coincidence that the scientific and mathematical comprehension skills of UK school children has been steadily falling down the world rankings for decades?
(Who needs scientists and engineers anyway when you can get Indians and Chinese to produce everything for us!) /sarc.

Gail Combs
February 6, 2014 2:30 am

davidg says: February 5, 2014 at 2:35 pm
I’m not a troll….Calling the facts I exposed red herrings only points at your own motivations…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Richard Courtney lives in the UK and is a ‘Socialist’ he is not an American and has a different view point on politics compared with conservative Americans. He also has a tremendous store of scientific knowledge and makes valuable contributions.
May I suggest you read E.M. Smith’s comment (He is an economist) “Evil Socialism” vs “Evil Capitalism” and the article America’s Ruling Class
Since I will get booted into moderation for another link, may I suggest you look at Jo Nova’s Climate Coup – The Politics:
joannenova (DOT)com(DOT)au/2012/03/climate-coup-the-politics/
As both you and Dr Ball said we are fighting with Masters of Propaganda. Speaking of which look into Ms. DeLauro (D-CT) husband, Stan Greenburg. Like Maurice Strong he is one of the behind the scenes guys with a lot of power.
One of his consulting firms is Greenberg Quinlan Rosner. Greenberg provides strategic advice and research for leaders, companies, campaigns, and NGOs. His political work has included serving as lead pollster and strategist to the campaigns of President Bill Clinton, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, Bolivian president Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, and South African president Nelson Mandela… for politicians in over 60 countries.
“…He is also a strategic consultant to the Climate Center of the Natural Resources Defense Council on its multi-year campaign on global warming….”
“..Greenberg has been described as “the father of modern polling techniques,” “the De Niro of all political consultants,” and “an unrivaled international ‘guru’.” Esquire Magazine named him one of the most important people of the 21st century. The New York Times writes that Greenberg “acts as a sort of people’s truth squad,” while Republican pollster Frank Luntz says “Stan Greenberg scares the hell out of me. He doesn’t just have a finger on the people’s pulse; he’s got an IV injected into it. He’s the best.”…”

Greenberg writes for the Democratic Strategist, formed the Democracy Corps, and is linked to the London School of Economics (Fabian) Third Way philosophy.
You might want to read: “Globalization and Middle Class Prosperity” by Greenberg
(www DOT)thedemocraticstrategist(DOT)org/archives/premiere/greenberg.php

Gail Combs
February 6, 2014 3:33 am

Pat Frank says: February 5, 2014 at 2:59 pm
I still don’t understand how the scientific organizations were brought into line…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually it was fairly easy.
The guy who actually runs the scientific organization is NOT a Scientist. He is an administrator possibly from HAAaavard Business School (in Boston, home of the foremost Marxist Scholars in the world) or the Fabian London School of Economics. Scientists are generally politically naive and besides the rank and file members were never asked their opinion in the matter it was just announced. Not to mention Survey shocker: Liberal profs admit they’d discriminate against conservatives in hiring, advancement… studies reveal that 5 percent to 7 percent of faculty openly identify as Republicans.
As Dr. Ball pointed out the battle is political.
As Pascal Lamy a French socialist, former EU bureaucrat and Director-General of the World Trade Organization, pointed out:
In the 1930s World Leaders ” agreed that the road to peace lay with building a new international order, an approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty — rooted in freedom, openness, prosperity and interdependence.”
Lamy also pointed out the formation of the United Nations, World Bank, IMF and the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT ==> WTO) were the result of this agreement.
His key statements that apply today are:
“The reality is that, so far, we have largely failed to articulate a clear and compelling vision of why a new global order matters — and where the world should be headed…
climate change negotiations are not just about the global environment but global economics as well — the way that technology, costs and growth are to be distributed and shared….
Can we balance the need for a sustainable planet with the need to provide billions with decent living standards? Can we do that without questioning radically the Western way of life? “

As a result of this agreement among World Leaders we got the First Earth Summit in 1972 run by Maurice Strong (Socialist living in China after Food for Oil scandal at the UN).
The trial balloon Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer, Vienna, 22 March 1985 followed by the Montreal Protocol (1989) to ban Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) (IT WORKED, let’s go for the gold!)
This was followed by United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (1992) and the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (1997)
Everything was tripping along nicely until China threw a monkey wrench into the works at Copenhagen. [How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room – Mark Lynas] Clinton had already give China US technology and gotten them into the WTO. Because Clinton had the DOE relax security at US weapons labs it allowed Wen Ho Lee, a Chinese physicist assigned to Los Alamos, to illegally transferred data on nuclear warheads to his private computer files and thence to China. So why should China want to curtail their economic growth? They already had all the technology [aka bribes] from the USA they wanted. Now the Chinese are thumbing their nose at the USA as they claim more territory and try to oust the dollar as the World Reserve Currency even going so far as to set up a rival bank to the IMF/World Bank. (search BRICS Development Bank)
We also got ‘Harmonization of Laws’
In June of 2007, The European Union and the United States announced the signing of a Framework for Advancing Transatlantic Economic Integration at a summit in Washington. President Bush described the agreement to the press as “a statement of the importance of trade”and claimed that it was “a commitment to eliminating barriers to trade” and “a recognition that the closer that the United States and the EU become, the better off our people become.”
The United Nations Audiovisual Library of International Law is worth browsing through.

richardscourtney
February 6, 2014 3:41 am

AussiejB:
At February 6, 2014 at 1:09 am you write

i find it very hard to understand why the people who post here have zero understanding of what is happening. The world is getting more heat retained. Why ? the result is ?. Now please people thing it is not about you it is about your grand grand kids. Yes u do not give a care about us but just think about those in 40 to 70 years onward. Do you care? that is my question

You are joking, aren’t you?
This entire thread is about “what is happening”.
There is no evidence – none, zilch, nada – that “The world is getting more heat retained”.
Global Average Surface Temperature Anomaly (GASTA) shows no change (i.e. no warming and no cooling) discernibly different from zero at 95% confidence for at least the last 17 years; RSS says 24.5 years. In other words, global warming stopped at least 17 years ago. And the climate models failed to indicate this cessation of global warming.
Nobody can know if the present stasis in global warming or cooling will end with warming or cooling. But we do know that constraining fossil fuels will impoverish and kill many people. All human activity requires adequate energy supply. People die without sufficient energy to grow crops, to build housing and equipment, to make and use tools, to make products, and to move products from where they are made to where they are needed. Fossil fuels and nuclear power are the ONLY sources of sufficient energy supply to meet present needs. The industrial revolution happened – and human population exploded – when the energy in fossil fuels became available to do work by use of the steam engine.
This provision of energy to do work by use of fossil fuels released people from the limitations of windpower, solar power and the power of the muscles of animals and slaves. And that is why human population exploded with the industrial revolution. There is no possibility that return to wind, sun, animals and slaves could sustain the existing human population.
And human population continues to grow. It is conservatively estimated that human population will grow by another 2.6 billion before starting to decline around the middle of this century. Those additional billions need additional energy supply to survive, and that means more use of fossil fuels because nuclear power only produces electricity and not everything can be operated from the end of a wire; e.g. agricultural tractors can’t. Constraining the use of fossil fuels would kill more than 2 billion people – mostly children – and would be slaughter on a scale which by comparison would make insignificant the combined activities of Pol Pot, Stal1n and H1tler.
The Precautionary Principle says we should not constrain use of fossil fuels with the resulting certain death of billions of people – mostly children – merely because computer games with no predictive skill suggest that global warming may happen.
But there are people who lack care for “our grand kids” so want to constrain the use of fossil fuels and nuclear power. We oppose them.

Richard

Vince Causey
February 6, 2014 5:18 am

“This provision of energy to do work by use of fossil fuels released people from the limitations of windpower, solar power and the power of the muscles of animals and slaves.”
That is it in a nutshell. Very well said Richard. I only wish more alarmists would take the time to look at the full picture.

Bill from Nevada
February 6, 2014 5:24 am

Remember the people in the days of your life,
who
baited,
insulted,
defamed,
humiliated,
and mocked
honest men
for telling the simple unvarnished
truth.
Remember who they are.
Tell your children who they are.
Call them to you.
Show them how a defeated scammer melts down when caught scamming.
Tell you children about how hundreds of people came forward
pointing out violation of physical law,
after careless violation of physical law.
Tell them how scores of respected scientific professionals
were mocked and derided
because they resisted corrupted, fraudulent, scam pseudo-science.
Remind your children that the world is full
of greasy glad handing good-old-boys,
manic depressive entertainers,
slicksters in suits,
and con men in lab coats.
Tell them not to be naive.
Tell your children the story,
about the people who took over science
peddling the concept cold nitrogen/oxygen bath
made the entire earth warmer
than if there were no cold nitrogen/oxygen bath.
Tell them about the men who are responsible for their being taught that
“placing reflective gas between light from a fire – the sun,
and a sphere – the earth,
makes planetary heat sensors show
more energy
arriving on the surface of the earth,
than when there was 20%
more energy
arriving on the surface of the earth.
—————————-
Tolstoy:
“I know that most men,
including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity,
can seldom accept
even the simplest
and most obvious truth
if it be such as would oblige them
to admit the falsity of conclusions
which they delighted in explaining to colleagues,
which they have proudly taught to others,
and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

MattN
February 6, 2014 7:20 am

I’m not kidding when I say I have run into people in life and online that think they are talking about carbon MONoxide. “Of course it’s a pollutant, its very dangerous, that’s why we have detectors for it in our home….”
Seriously. These people are breeding and voting.

February 6, 2014 11:46 am

Tanya Aardman
Re Gandhi & Trade union. The statements were similar but not identical. Gandhi’s is disputed.

Mahatma Gandhi . . . Letter to Winston Churchill (April, 1943)?
* First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
* Describing the stages of a winning strategy of nonviolent activism. A close variant of the quotation first appears in a 1914 US trade union address by Nicholas Klein:
And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. An then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And that is what is going to happen to the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America.”


Famous Quotes from 100 Great People.
Original statement by Nicholas Klein
Proceedings of the Biennial Convention of the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America Convention 1919, page 53