Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Dear Dr. McNutt:
As a somewhat unwilling subscriber to Science, let me start by welcoming you as the latest editor of Science magazine. You’ve stated “Thirty-five years ago, when I was a graduate student and my very first research paper was published in Science, I do not think I could ever have dreamed that one day I would have the honor of becoming Editor-in-Chief of this most distinguished journal.”
And in addition to your most impressive resume, you do get huge props from me for this part of your Wikipedia biography, which I certainly hope is true, viz:
McNutt is a NAUI-certified scuba diver and she trained in underwater demolition and explosives handling with the U.S. Navy UDT and SEAL Team.
Indeed you do have an unparalleled opportunity, which is to turn what has become just another glossy advocacy magazine back into a distinguished scientific journal.
Unfortunately, during the intervening 35 years of your remarkable scientific career since you were a graduate student, a once-stellar magazine has fallen on hard times. Starting with Donald Kennedy, and continuing under Bruce Alberts, it has become a shabby vehicle for strident climate activism … and that experiment has proven once again that Science can’t be both an activist journal and a scientific journal. Science magazine has thrown its considerable (but rapidly decreasing) weight behind a number of causes. And yes, some of those causes are indeed important.
The problem is that you are convinced the causes are hugely important, and you want to convince us of the same. But once you convince people that your causes are more important to you than your science, that’s it for your authority regarding the science. You either get to have activism, or you get scientific authority. You don’t get both. And the past actions of your magazine have clearly demonstrated that these days your activist causes are much more important to you than the science.
The problems have involved two main issues in the field I’m involved in, climate science. The first issue is that despite repeated requests, past Science Magazine editors have flouted your own guidelines for normal scientific transparency. You continue to publish articles about climate science without requiring that the authors archive their data and code as required by your own rules. It appears that the rules about archiving data and code are enforced for the little people like myself, but when the Editors of Science want to promote a point of view, the rules don’t apply … funny how that works.
The second issue is that in climate science, far too often Science magazine editors have substituted pal review for peer review. As a result, people laugh at the bumf that passes for climate science in your pages. They don’t disagree with your articles. They laugh at your articles. I’m told that in some scientific circles, it’s only the glossy unabsorbent nature of the magazine’s paper that keeps the climate science articles from being used, perhaps more appropriately, for hygienic purposes … seriously, you have published some really risible, really shabby, grade-school level studies in climate science. It’s embarrassing.
With a new Editor-In-Chief, I’ve been hoping that might all be in the past. Unfortunately, after taking over at the helm, you’ve chosen to reveal your … umm … well, let me describe it as your newness to the concept of “scientific journal editor” by following in the foolishly activist footsteps of your immediate predecessors. I’d hoped you might be smarter than they were, and indeed you might still show yourself to be. But to jump into the middle of the climate debate and stake out a position for Science magazine? Why? That’s suicide for the magazine. Science magazine should never have an editorial stance on the science it is discussing and overseeing. Leave that to Mother Jones magazine, or to National Geographic, or Popular Science. Your magazine taking a strong activist position on climate science is just evidence that you have abandoned all pretense of being concerned with climate science itself. When the science is strong it doesn’t need defenders … and if the Editor-In-Chief of Science feels it’s necessary to defend some part of science, that simply proves that the “science” involved must be of the weakest.
And regarding you personally taking a position? Well, that’s interesting. The problem is that you are extremely well educated, strong, strikingly good looking, and a wickedly-smart woman by all accounts … and while those are all good things, that’s a scary combination. One downside of that particular melange is that as a result, it’s very possible that people, particularly men, haven’t told you the unvarnished truth in years. So some of what I have to say may be a surprise to you.
Here are your climate claims from your recent Editorial, based presumably on your research into the flexural modes of the earth’s crust:
Researchers have turned to the geologic record to obtain ground truth about patterns of change for use in climate models. Information from prior epochs reveals evidence for conditions on Earth that might be analogs to a future world with more CO2. Projections based on such previous evidence are still uncertain, because there is no perfect analog to current events in previous geologic epochs; however, even the most optimistic predictions are dire. For example, environmental changes brought on by climate changes will be too rapid for many species to adapt to, leading to widespread extinctions. Unfortunately, I view these predicted outcomes as overly optimistic.
Now, the uninitiated might not notice the subtle change of tense there, from the subjunctive to the declarative. But those of us who are used to the pea-and-shell game will have seen that you’ve done something curious. You’ve started by saying that “Projections based on such previous evidence are still uncertain”. That is true, and not only true, it’s a huge understatement.
Here is the current state of climate science, the understanding of past climate changes, and the prediction of future climates.
• Not one climate scientist on either side of the aisle predicted the current ~ 15-year hiatus in warming. This lack of warming was highlighted as early as 2009 in a widely-circulated article called “What Happened to Global Warming? Scientists Say Just Wait a Bit”. In that article, various scientists were quoted as saying the warming would resume in a few years.
Well, we’ve waited a few years, Dr. McNutt. Their predictions, once again, haven’t come true … and despite that, here you are to lecture us. And where did this most seditious article entitled “What Happened To Global Warming” appear?
Why, it appeared in Science magazine … you want to be taken seriously in the field of climate science, yet you don’t mention this lack of recent warming at all?
• Not one climate scientist on either side of the aisle can explain the century or two of cooling leading up to the Little Ice Age in the 1600s. Why did the world slowly get colder back then? Oh, some folks claim it’s the sun, maybe so, maybe not … but really, no one knows.
• Not one climate scientist on either side of the aisle can explain the three centuries of slow general warming that have followed the Little Ice Age. What changed to gradually warm the planet, after it had been cooling for centuries?
• None of these things are explicable as the results of CO2, which supposedly is the secret control knob that regulates the global temperature.
So no one can explain the past climate changes, the CO2 explanation fails miserably at the hindcast, and you tell us that predictions based on the past are “still uncertain”, which is a big understatement and is certainly true.
But despite that uncertainty, despite that lack of knowledge, in the very next sentence you assure us breathlessly that predictions that “ENVIRONMENTAL CHANGES WILL BE TOO RAPID FOR MANY SPECIES TO ADAPT TO, LEADING TO WIDESPREAD EXTINCTIONS” are not alarmist enough for you …
Changes “will be” too rapid? “Will be”? And that’s not alarmist enough for you?
I truly hope you don’t realize what you are saying. I truly hope that you do not understand that that sentence of yours is nothing but strident alarmism that you are presenting under the guise of science.
Because you don’t know what the unknown environmental changes WILL do the species of the planet, that’s incredible hubris. More to the point, you have absolutely no evidence for your claim of “widespread extinctions”. Not one modern species has ever been shown to have gone extinct from climate change. Even Nature magazine has given up on the goofy idea of the “sixth wave of extinctions” that you are trying to sell. There is no evidence for your “extinction by climate change” claim at all.
Let me take a bit of a detour, and discuss the idea of a “natural experiment”. People always say we can’t study climate in a laboratory, and that’s true. We can’t use the lab to see how a big ecosystem full of real-world species might react to changing temperatures, for example. But we have natural experiments. And we’ve just conducted a very interesting experiment. Here’s the record of the experiment.

According to the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature dataset shown above, the global land is two and a half degrees warmer than it was around 1810. Two and a half degrees of warming in two centuries. That’s well beyond what is supposed to be the huge danger change of two degrees of warming … where are the corpses?
You seem to be concerned about the speed of the changes. Two and a half degrees in two centuries is fast, it’s well over half the speed of the changes you are concerned about. As a result, we should have seen at least some evidence for your claim that warming causes extinctions … perhaps you could name the species that have gone extinct from warming during that natural experiment? I ask, because I’ve looked very hard, and I haven’t found even one.
You continue with your litany of unsubstantiated worries:
Even species that might tolerate the new environment could nevertheless decline as the ecosystems on which they depend collapse. The oceans will become more stratified and less productive.
The oceans WILL become more stratified? They WILL become less productive? And you say species “could” decline, but the ecosystem collapse is presented without qualifiers? My dear lady, you just told us that all of these “projections” are very uncertain. Let me suggest that you lose the “will become” and the “will happen”. You don’t know if warmer oceans will be more or less productive, and that kind of puffery just makes people point and laugh. I implore you, stop with the pronouncements from on high. You just got appointed, it’s true, but only to the editorship of Science, not to a more celestial and all-seeing post.
In addition, perhaps you could point to an example of a thermally-caused “ecosystem collapse” from the two and a half degrees C warming of the last two centuries? You know … evidence?
You go on …
If such ecosystem problems come to pass, the changes will affect humans in profound ways. The loss in ocean productivity will be detrimental for the 20% of the population that depends on the seas for nutrition. Crops will fail more regularly, especially on land at lower latitudes where food is in shortest supply.
The first part is good, you preface your statements with “IF the ecosystem problems come to pass”. The rest of it, however, is just more unsupported, uncited, unverified, and untrue fears. You have no evidence that a couple of degrees of warming will make the crops “fail more regularly”. Again, we’ve just run a natural experiment. We’ve just seen what happened when the land temperatures went up two and a half degrees from 1810 to the present. So please tell us, Dr. McNutt …
Where is the evidence of any loss in ocean productivity from that two and a half degrees C of warming? I say that you don’t have even a scrap of evidence that warming per se causes a decline in oceanic productivity. I certainly have never seen any.
Where is the evidence of any tropical crop loss from the last two centuries of warming?
Where is the evidence of any cities submerged by sea level rise?
Where is the evidence of the claimed spread of diseases?
Where are the climate refugees? You are aware, I hope, that the UN Environmental Programme climate specialists, part of the “97% consensus”, confidently predicted 50 million climate refugees by 2010 … perhaps you could point those refugees out for those of us who can’t find them?
Or perhaps you’re not aware of the dozens of such failed predictions by members of the fabled “97% consensus”. There’s no problem if you’re not aware of those unsuccessful “scientific” forecasts, I mean after all you’re a geologist, not a climate scientist … but if you lack that kind of basic knowledge of the climate field, then why are you attempting to lecture us on the subject?
Sadly, it seems that like many other good honest folk, you are simply parroting claims of danger that you have swallowed without ever thinking critically about them. Reconsider the natural experiment. We’ve had two and a half degrees of warming, and from everything I can find, it wasn’t harmful to the planetary denizens. There were no climate refugees. The coral atolls didn’t go underwater, we still have them. According to the IPCC, there’s been no increase in extreme weather events. No cities had to be evacuated because of sea level rise.
Two and a half degrees C, and not only were there no catastrophes from that warming, quite the opposite. Overall, it was beneficial to plants, animals, and humans alike. Expanded growing seasons and milder winters provided larger and more stable crops. Longer ice-free periods on the northern harbors and rivers allowed increased commerce. Milder winters killed fewer people … what’s not to like?
Now, you claim to be a scientist, Dr. McNutt. And I’m happy to be proven wrong when I say that your climate fears are not based in reality. To prove me wrong, you need to provide evidence. Not claims. Not solemn warnings of future disasters unencumbered by any historical parallel. You need to provide evidence.
So if you’d be so kind as to point out the past catastrophes that came from the last two and a half degrees C of rapid warming, your alarmism about the possibility of another two and a half degrees might at least contain a hint of realism, even if it’s only a Hollywood “based on a true story” kind of realism.
If you can’t find any thermal catastrophes from that 2.5 degrees of warming, on the other hand, an honest scientist would change her views accordingly … your call.
Heck, you’re so new to the field that you don’t even have your alarmist talking points straight. Al Gore gives classes in this stuff so his minions will all be singing from the same hymnbook, you might borrow a copy. Because according to the alarmists, the effect of the CO2 warming will be greatest in the extra-tropics and the polar regions. In those areas it’s supposed to affect mostly nighttime temperatures, and particularly in the winter.
So your claim that crops will fail “at lower latitudes where food is in shortest supply” is in direct disagreement with the alarmist predictions of danger at the Poles.
Not only that, but your uncited claim of tropical losses is also in direct disagreement with the historical data, which shows that the tropics has warmed the least of all of the latitudinal zones. The tropical warming since 1900 is lost in the noise, your claim of tropical crop loss is a sad joke. You should at least switch latitudes and join up with your co-religionists and Al Gore’s minions in trying to scare people about a warming Arctic … at least that was happening, although unfortunately for alarmists like yourself, Alaska cooled substantially over the first decade of the 21st century, so now the evidence is mixed.
And in any case, where are my minions? I want the government to use their Solyndra funds to provide me with minions, like the ones Al Gore trains using petrodollars he pocketed from the oil companies for his TV station. How come Al has minions and I don’t? I guess the moral is, first get the oil million$, then you’ll get the minions. I’m obviously a slow learner regarding the first part of that … and how come Al gets the petrobucks and nobody says a word, but skeptics get tarred as being on the oil companies payroll but don’t get a dime? … however, I digress. You go on to say:
This unfavorable environmental state could last for many thousands of years as geologic processes slowly respond to the imbalances created by the release of the fossil carbon reservoir. The time scale for biodiversity to be restored, with all the benefits that it brings, will be even longer.
Tertullian says that the Roman Emperors had a slave whose job was to whisper in the Emperor’s ear “Respice post te! Hominem te memento!” In that respect, Dr. McNutt, let me be the slave who reminds you that you are merely the latest future ex-Editor-In-Chief of Science, a once-great magazine.
And while that post still swings a certain (although sadly diminished) amount of weight, it does not confer upon you ex oficio the ability to see “many thousands of years” into the future. You are attempting to channel Cassandra, and you are failing at it spectacularly. I cannot say this strongly enough. Activism is not your friend. The stronger the Editor-In-Chief of Science is as an activist, the less authority the Editor-In-Chief has as a scientist, and the less authority Science has as a scientific journal. What part of “conflict of interest” do you and Bruce Alberts and Donald Kennedy not understand? You cannot be both the peer-reviewer, the gate-keeper who arbitrates which science is worth publishing, and at the same time be a strong scientific alarmist pushing a particular belief as well.
So please, don’t bother us with any more of your unsupported fears about what a bit of warming might do. You’re actually in good shape yet. Yes, you struck out badly in the first inning, but there’s lots of the game left before you’re an ex-, and that just means don’t repeat your mistakes when you come up to bat again.
What you need to be concerned with is what your magazine does, not what the climate does. Lecturing people when your own house is in such bad order does not make you look wise, it makes you look hypocritical. You need to attend to the very poor quality of the studies you are publishing before you start lecturing people about climate science. How about giving us an editorial about how your predecessors didn’t enforce the “archive your data and code” policy, and whether you plan to continue the now time-honored tradition of ignoring the policy? That’s something you can speak about with authority.
After that, perhaps you might give us an editorial about how you are renouncing the anti-scientific practice of using co-authors to review each others’ work? That would be interesting. Or how about an editorial review of the ethical implications of Peter Gleick’s actions, and what their general acceptance by mainstream climate scientists reveal about the nature and extent of Noble Cause Corruption? That would be more than welcome.
But please … no more schoolmarmish lectures, and no more channeling the Ehrlichs and Holdrens. We’ve had enough failed serial doom-casters to last us for decades. You do not want to add your name to that list of unsuccessful catastrophe-mongers.
I say all of this to you for several reasons. First, I can’t stand to see someone driving the bus off the cliff without warning them. You’re doing both your reputation and that of Science magazine great damage through your alarmism, and in my world I am obliged to say something.
Second, there’s an old adage that says “It is better to light one little cylinder of fossil-fuel-derived wax with a wick in it, than to curse the darkness,” or something like that. I’m not the man to sit idly by when something I care about is imperiled.
Next, I say it because as an amateur scientist, I’m a huge fan of the process we call science, and I hate to see the journals flouting scientific transparency and blatantly shilling for one side or the other in a scientific debate.
And curiously, I say it because I truly wish you well. You do have an amazing opportunity, one I’d love to have. You have the chance to turn Science back into a serious, reputable scientific journal.
Plus scuba divers get my support, and women divers who’ve done underwater explosives training with the SEALS get my unalloyed, albeit somewhat jealous, awe and respect.
The main issue is, I’d like to see Science magazine become what it once was—a science magazine without an axe to grind, and without an agenda other than to be the best scientific journal on the planet.
Because as soon as you start grinding that axe and pursuing that agenda, you’ve become an axe-woman on a mission, not a scientist … and although the world needs good axe-women on missions, and I’m sure you’re a very good one when the situation arises, both Science the journal and science itself suffers when the Editor-In-Chief of Science magazine takes up axe-grinding. It destroys your credibility as a major arbiter of what science should be published.
My very best regards to you, and my best wishes for your tenure as Editor-In-Chief, and for the magazine in your hands,
w.
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Thanks for the correction Stephen. You know what they say about assumptions. Of coursethe good Dr. M. is all of 60 years old. Perhaps explosives were used before air guns?
Willis: My motto is, “Perfect is good enough …”
I prefer the line: “The Perfect is the enemy of the good” – variant translation of Voltaire, 1772.
Or from the 20th century:
“A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.” – George S. Patton
In that spirit, banging out your Open Letter, somewhat longer than my taste, but getting on the floor for discussion within 48 hrs of her editorial is to give it the urgency of discussion it needed.
Only a few hours later, WUWT publishes the Global Warming: speed round notice and critique of Blois et al 2013, Science Mag. 2 Aug 2013.
The first sentence of Blois et al 2013, Science 2 Aug 2013:
Ref. 1 is Marcott-2013 (also Science, March 2013). Marcott retreated from the 20th century findings in his FAQ.
Ref 2 is S. Solomon et al., in Climate Change 2007, contribution to FAR IPCC.
You correctly highlighted an alarmist paragraph of hers in her editorial starting:
Researchers have turned to the geologic record to obtain ground truth about patterns of change for use in climate models. This is introduction into Blois-2013. That is the crux of the paper. Her next sentence:
Information from prior epochs reveals evidence for conditions on Earth that might be analogs to a future world with more CO2.
….. even the most optimistic predictions are dire.
Alarmist advocacy poppycock. Some predictions no doubt are dire. But use of “the most optimistic” superlative equals a total loss of credibility by McNutt.
Let us compare the first sentence of the paper
with the last part of the Abstract
My closing question is, “Who wrote the first sentence?”
Was it Blois, et al? A reviewer?
Or was it the Editor-in-Chief?
Thanks to your Open Letter I have a good idea.
If only there were a way of harnessing the magnetic comment energy of an Eschenbach blog. Here’s my 2 cents worth.
McNutt is just another snide so-called scientist who lacks the integrity and diligence to be an engineer.
On the other hand it’s not that wise to p**s off someone who knows their way around explosives.
an honest scientist would change her views accordingly
I realize the essay is directed towards a female scientist, but given that this particular sentence is framed towards a generic, gender-not-specified, scientist, the pronoun really should be “his”.
Since you apparently listen to women only when it comes to sexism, I thought I’d second the criticism a few male commenters brought up. First, as a fairly conventionally good-looking woman in STEM, I can tell you that your premise contradicts my experience and that of my female colleagues. Attractive women in science are constantly patronized and ‘explained things’ by less educated men who assume that good-looking = dumb. Really, constantly. I believe there’s a tumblr dedicated to this phenomenon, called ‘academic men explain me things.’
So rest, assured, she’s had plenty other condescending explanations from men assuming that her ladybrains could not manage so much logic on its own. She’s also had her credentials questioned without evidence regularly, so not much is new here.
But yes, irrelevant mentions of her gender is displaying more about the writer’s bias about women in science than about the target. You seem like you mean well, hopefully you will consider that reinforcing false assumptions about women in science hurts all women in science. And dismissing a good portion of scientists hurts science in general.
woohoo! Great rant and a fun read Willis…One might hope she takes it to heart.
[i]According to the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature dataset shown above, the global land is two and a half degrees warmer than it was around 1810. Two and a half degrees of warming in two centuries. That’s well beyond what is supposed to be the huge danger change of two degrees of warming … where are the corpses?[/i]
For what it’s worth the dip you’ve cherry-picked in the BEST global temperature data is attributed to the 1815 Mount Tambora volcanic event and is associated with very large scale crop failure, famine, and a great many corpses. Not really your point, but an ironic choice of starting point for your argument.
Thanks for the letter Willis.
I disagree to the idea that it is a wasted effort, no matter how the reaction is, if any, the letter stands on its arguments.
It makes also a difference telling the things by their name.
These are tough times for magazines where things change really fast. A good science magazine is needed. Another activist paper? Who needs that? Only time will tell.
“US Navy UDT and Seal Team training course in underwater demolition and explosives handling”
Directly from her CV. I served 28 years as a Navy EOD tech and I’m going to call foul on this. It may have been a familiarization “course”, but find it unlikely she handled anything live underwater, much less above it. More jarring, I spent 42 weeks in just basic EOD training. I won’t even go into the very marked differences in training for Navy diving and NAUI certifications – there is no comparison. Even though I went through Navy Dive School, I still had to go to class to earn my PADI certs too. I think there is a bit of resume inflation going on here, and if she is willing to pad it on such a “little” thing, what else might be a bit over the top?
“it’s very possible that people, particularly men, haven’t told you the unvarnished truth in years.”
Wow, aren’t you brave to speak up where others fear to speak? Reality check… Men in power who are reluctant to speak up about their opinions around and at women…. is the experience of NO woman, ever. Men are more than happy to criticize, critique, and comment on women all day, every day. Your statement had me in an actual double-take, it is that clueless. Maybe a few people did not speak up, but I guarantee that she has had countless earfuls from countless blowhards all along the way, so give her the respect that she knows what she is doing. Disagree with her without being so freaking condescending.
the 2.5C of warming that happened after the little ice age was natural, thus it is good and does no harm. the 2.5C of projected future warming is man made, thus it is bad and will do great harm.
the problem Willis is that you think that the harm results from temperature. it does not. it results from things that are man made. natural things like storm, flood, cold waves, heat waves, these were largely beneficial before humans started burning fossil fuels. natural events helped improve the species, by getting rid of the weak. human have now altered this balance so that nature is destroying the species by getting rid of the weak.
boumbette says:
“…irrelevant mentions of her gender is displaying more about the writer’s bias about women in science than about the target.”
Dear boumbette,
The “target”? Don’t you understand? Womens’ groups have provided for a lot of progress. However, they have morphed from pushing against real problems like pay disparity [which by now has been pretty much eliminated], to constantly telling women how bad they have it. Their complaints have become less and less important with all the legislation that has been passed to address the concerns. And if you believe you are going to eliminate attraction between the sexes at work through legislation, well, you are just dreaming. That will not happen, even if you dress every employee in identical Mao suits.
Here is the tactic: You can tell someone he or she has been screwed over twenty times, without any results. But then you catch them when they’ve had a bad day, and suddenly they’re nodding along with you, agreeing that they’ve been screwed over. And from then on, they feel persecuted. The glass is forever half empty, instead of half full. That tactic gets some results. But the payoff includes an unhappier society.
It is an effective tactic. But it also results in people who go looking for reasons that they think they were screwed over. That’s what you did. Willis has written a much-needed letter. But there is nothing concrete in what you wrote. You just made some vague assertions. Did they really do any good at all?
The problem is not in what Willis wrote, or in the way he wrote it. The problem is specifically with the journal Science [to which I subscribed for more than twenty years]. It has gone straight downhill, becoming an advocacy journal. Everything Willis wrote about it is true. I see no difference between the new Nature Climate Change and Science. They both have a crystal clear agenda: runaway global warming is a huge problem, it will get worse, and we have to do something about it!!
There is nothing positive ever written about a warmer world. It all must be entirely negative. But the real world is nothing like that. For every fish eaten there is a fish fed. Global warming looks to be beneficial on balance, with millions of acres of arable land possible. In a world where a third of the population subsists on $2 a day, that is a very good thing, no? But Science will never admit it. Why not? Because they have an agenda. A new editor could change things for the better.
The people responsible for running those magazines are disgusting. The truth is not in them. Their minds are made up. They promote propaganda instead of the Scientific Method.
It doesn’t have to be like this. But since it is, your efforts would be better spent calling the new Editor to account, rather than worrying about whether she is being treated differently because she is a woman. Ask yourself: how many men were bypassed so she could get that job? But you don’t hear those men sniveling, do you? No. Truth be told, there were probably several as-well qualified males, and likely a few better qualified men who wanted that job. But they will have to do without it, and they won’t complain about it. See the difference?
===========================
ferd:
You forgot to add “/sarc”.☺
Or did you really mean it?
Amen! I’m elfish and little. Been judged by that and that alone, regardless of having multiple degrees with published research. My most recent experience, a man felt compelled to explain to me the finer points of heating up a plate of vitals in the microwave. Assume intelligence and debate the merits of her points using evidence. Period. Leave the hissy fits to children.
Why didn’t you apply for the position of editor?
CRS, DrPH (Charles) wrote “Nicely done, Willis!”
(Yes sports fans, Charles actually thought that was a well-written, articulate essay)
“I had a subscription & barely have time to read my emails every day, so I let the thing lapse”
(Why am I not surprised that Charles finds more value in emails from his fellow goofballs than from Science magazine?)
“and in this world (within I presently live)”
Here’s $5 Charles. Buy yourself an overdose of your favorite drug … and get off.
“I cannot think of any truly honest scientific publications anymore”
(Charles could have ended that after the first 3 words)
“WUWT is about the best substitute I’ve found”
(Holy Christ. I think I’ll keep the $5 and get off myself – there are too many of them)
“where we can yell at one another endlessly about very high-level theories”
(One thing in common with all goofballs … they all think they are friggin Einsteins)
Cheers, Charles the DrPH
(Houston … I think we’ve located the problem … “cheers.”
Advice Charles – try waiting until you are sober before embarrassing yourself in public)
You are seriously in error in a fundamental aspect of your letter.
I am a decades long willing member of AAAS. It has been for a very long time indeed, and remains, one of the premier journals of science. Your statement that tine new editor should “turn what has become just another glossy advocacy magazine back into a distinguished scientific journal” is simply BS. It is EMPHATICALLY a distinguished scientific journal.
Now, I happen to agree with you that Science’s policy re global warming and climate change are in error. But you need to understand that the science community as a whole, and not just the AAAS, has been mislead into their current position, and Science is simply reflecting what most of its members, and a vast majority of those in STEM fields, believe to be true.
Every once in a while the STEM community as a whole gets it wrong. Over time, hopefully, this will self-correct, as the contrary evidence builds up. But aside from these occasional lapses, Science as a journal is outstanding. You will get nowhere labeling it a “glossy advocacy magazine”, because that is not what it is or what it does. Being wrong is not at all the same as being an advocate.
Suggesting actions in a particular case, CAGW, does not mean that in general Science is an advocacy publication. And the policy statements re CAGW follow naturally from the widespread view of the situation, not from any political bias. Only when the commonly held view changes will we see policy changes at Science. Further, this is how it ought to be.
Remember, “To err is human”.
Dr. McNutter will no doubt continue her magazine’s ravings in support of the UN’s climate cult movement.
Mark B says: (emphasis mine)
August 5, 2013 at 2:29 pm
So … your claim is that the temperature dip in 1810 is due to a volcano eruption in 1815?
As an acquaintance of mine commented, that’s an ironic choice of starting point for your argument.
w.
sezit says:
August 5, 2013 at 3:01 pm
So it’s your claim that men DON’T lie to good-looking women?
Because that’s what I said. I pointed out that at least on my planet, men lie to good-looking women all the time. I guess YMMV, but if so, please tell me where you live. I want to meet all these honest guys in the place where being lied to is the experience of NO woman, ever.
w.
Men lie to not so good looking women all the time Willis. Face it, men lie a lot.
You are not helping yourself very much here. Stop digging.
From Eli Rabett on August 5, 2013 at 6:40 pm:
Personally I don’t much respect fellow “men” who lie to women to get what they want, and have been known to not tolerate lying to “get along”. How will they know you are honest about one thing, when you are not honest about other things? But perhaps you are a different sort of man, who finds lying to satisfy your goals to be acceptable.
The bunny rabbit tells the human to stop digging. When has that ever worked?
boumbette says:
August 5, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Thanks, boumbette. I appreciate your contribution.
You have made my point exactly. You and your colleagues have not been told the truth. According to you, instead of the truth you’ve been given dumbed-down, “condescending explanations”, not the real facts but simpler things that those men think your “ladybrains” can handle.
Surely you would agree with me that if what you are getting from men is the grade-school watered-down version, you are not getting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Which is what I said. Men lie to women, particularly good-looking women, all the time.
And unfortunately, that dumbed-down stuff is exactly the kind of nonsense that Dr. McNutt is parroting, the simplistic “you can’t handle the logic” kinds of explanations that you highlight above.
Perhaps what I said didn’t come out right. But what I was trying to say to Dr. McNutt was no, I’m not going to give you the dumbed-down version like you’ve gotten in the past and expect you won’t understand even that. Instead, I’m going to tell you the actual truth, and expect you to step up to the plate.
FIrst, I only mentioned her gender exactly where I thought it was relevant. It’s relevant regarding of her underwater explosives experience. Very few women have ever done that. Is that not worth an honorable mention? I think it is.
Her gender is also relevant regarding the fact that men lie to good-looking women, as you have just emphasized.
So … which mentions of her gender do you think are irrelevant and why?
Next, please read what I said again. What “false assumptions” about women am I reinforcing? The assumption that women, both in and out of science, are given condescending, dumbed-down explanations by men? You’ve strongly agreed with that assumption of mine … so what assumptions did I make that are false?
As to “dismissing a good portion of scientists”, you’ll have to point out where I did that. When I was a kid, one of my big-time heroes was Madame Curie … what did I say that makes you think I don’t respect and acknowledge the endless contributions of women to science?
Boumbette, let me close by asking again what I’ve asked people many times. If you disagree with something I said, please quote it. I can’t defend myself against some vague handwaving accusation that I “dismiss a good portion of scientists”. As far as I know, I’ve never done that in my life, so what can I possibly say in response? That’s the worst kind of accusation possible, a vague but very ugly accusation that cannot be answered …
And I also can’t respond to a claim that “irrelevant” mentions of her gender are wrong, without a clue as to which of my infrequent mentions of her gender you think were “irrelevant” and why.
You also say,
I did not question her climate science credentials, because she has no credentials in climate science. None.
So exactly where did I question her other credentials? Without quotations to let me know what on earth you are referring to, that’s just another one of your vague unpleasant accusations. Without a quotation or a single bit of evidence of what I said that you object to, you’re just throwing mud at the wall and hoping it sticks.
I pointed out, specifically and exactly and in what people said was too much detail, precisely where it is that I think Dr. McNutt went off the rails. I quoted her words, and raised my objections to them.
You, on the other hand, make nasty underhanded accusations that I’m treating women improperly in some unspecified manner, accusations which are so vague that there is no possible way for me to respond to them … and you think I’m the bad person in the dialogue?
So please, quote exactly what I said that you disagree with, and explain clearly just exactly where you think I went wrong, so I can understand what it is you are objecting to.
I always look to learn something in my interactions, and I would be more than happy to learn from you … but I can’t learn a single thing unless and until you are much more specific than you were in your comment.
My thanks again,
w.
Slacko says:
August 5, 2013 at 2:19 am
Only if you can’t speak Bahston.
Occam37 says:
August 5, 2013 at 5:46 pm
If you read the comments, Occam37, you’ll find that you are in a small minority, one of the very few people making this claim.
Currently, Science regularly publishes grade-school garbage as if it were real climate science. It has not required its pet authors to archive their data and code. It has taken strong adversarial positions on unanswered scientific questions regarding the climate. The Editor-In-Chief repeats Al Gore level climate nonsense as if it were true.
If you mistake that for a “distinguished scientific journal”, I’m afraid you need more help than I can give, you’re beyond my poor powers …
w.
Well she’ll have some work… Read this amazing post on Polar Bear Science:
http://polarbearscience.com/2013/08/03/biologists-spreading-misinformation-hybridization-with-grizzlies-not-due-to-polar-bears-moving-inland/#more-2483
“Biologists spreading misinformation: hybridization with grizzlies not due to polar bears moving inland
Posted on August 3, 2013 |A paper published last week in the journal Science, written by a team of biologists and atmospheric scientists, expounds on a possible dire future for a range of Arctic animals. It’s called, “Ecological consequences of sea-ice decline” and surprisingly, polar bears are discussed only briefly. (…)
Lead author of the paper, Professor of Biology Eric Post, is quoted extensively in the press release issued by his employer (Penn State University, pdf here). In it, Post re-states the above sentence in simpler terms, removing any doubt of its intended interpretation:
“… polar and grizzly bears already have been observed to have hybridized because polar bears now are spending more time on land, where they have contact with grizzlies.”
Both statements are patently false. All recent hybridization events documented (2006-2013) occurred because a few male grizzlies traveled over the sea ice into polar bear territory and found themselves a polar bear female to impregnate (see news items here and here, Fig. 1 below). These events did not occur on land during the ice-free season (which is late summer/early fall), but on the sea ice in spring (March-May). “