Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Dear Dr. McNutt:
As a somewhat unwilling subscriber to Science, let me start by welcoming you as the latest editor of Science magazine. You’ve stated “Thirty-five years ago, when I was a graduate student and my very first research paper was published in Science, I do not think I could ever have dreamed that one day I would have the honor of becoming Editor-in-Chief of this most distinguished journal.”
And in addition to your most impressive resume, you do get huge props from me for this part of your Wikipedia biography, which I certainly hope is true, viz:
McNutt is a NAUI-certified scuba diver and she trained in underwater demolition and explosives handling with the U.S. Navy UDT and SEAL Team.
Indeed you do have an unparalleled opportunity, which is to turn what has become just another glossy advocacy magazine back into a distinguished scientific journal.
Unfortunately, during the intervening 35 years of your remarkable scientific career since you were a graduate student, a once-stellar magazine has fallen on hard times. Starting with Donald Kennedy, and continuing under Bruce Alberts, it has become a shabby vehicle for strident climate activism … and that experiment has proven once again that Science can’t be both an activist journal and a scientific journal. Science magazine has thrown its considerable (but rapidly decreasing) weight behind a number of causes. And yes, some of those causes are indeed important.
The problem is that you are convinced the causes are hugely important, and you want to convince us of the same. But once you convince people that your causes are more important to you than your science, that’s it for your authority regarding the science. You either get to have activism, or you get scientific authority. You don’t get both. And the past actions of your magazine have clearly demonstrated that these days your activist causes are much more important to you than the science.
The problems have involved two main issues in the field I’m involved in, climate science. The first issue is that despite repeated requests, past Science Magazine editors have flouted your own guidelines for normal scientific transparency. You continue to publish articles about climate science without requiring that the authors archive their data and code as required by your own rules. It appears that the rules about archiving data and code are enforced for the little people like myself, but when the Editors of Science want to promote a point of view, the rules don’t apply … funny how that works.
The second issue is that in climate science, far too often Science magazine editors have substituted pal review for peer review. As a result, people laugh at the bumf that passes for climate science in your pages. They don’t disagree with your articles. They laugh at your articles. I’m told that in some scientific circles, it’s only the glossy unabsorbent nature of the magazine’s paper that keeps the climate science articles from being used, perhaps more appropriately, for hygienic purposes … seriously, you have published some really risible, really shabby, grade-school level studies in climate science. It’s embarrassing.
With a new Editor-In-Chief, I’ve been hoping that might all be in the past. Unfortunately, after taking over at the helm, you’ve chosen to reveal your … umm … well, let me describe it as your newness to the concept of “scientific journal editor” by following in the foolishly activist footsteps of your immediate predecessors. I’d hoped you might be smarter than they were, and indeed you might still show yourself to be. But to jump into the middle of the climate debate and stake out a position for Science magazine? Why? That’s suicide for the magazine. Science magazine should never have an editorial stance on the science it is discussing and overseeing. Leave that to Mother Jones magazine, or to National Geographic, or Popular Science. Your magazine taking a strong activist position on climate science is just evidence that you have abandoned all pretense of being concerned with climate science itself. When the science is strong it doesn’t need defenders … and if the Editor-In-Chief of Science feels it’s necessary to defend some part of science, that simply proves that the “science” involved must be of the weakest.
And regarding you personally taking a position? Well, that’s interesting. The problem is that you are extremely well educated, strong, strikingly good looking, and a wickedly-smart woman by all accounts … and while those are all good things, that’s a scary combination. One downside of that particular melange is that as a result, it’s very possible that people, particularly men, haven’t told you the unvarnished truth in years. So some of what I have to say may be a surprise to you.
Here are your climate claims from your recent Editorial, based presumably on your research into the flexural modes of the earth’s crust:
Researchers have turned to the geologic record to obtain ground truth about patterns of change for use in climate models. Information from prior epochs reveals evidence for conditions on Earth that might be analogs to a future world with more CO2. Projections based on such previous evidence are still uncertain, because there is no perfect analog to current events in previous geologic epochs; however, even the most optimistic predictions are dire. For example, environmental changes brought on by climate changes will be too rapid for many species to adapt to, leading to widespread extinctions. Unfortunately, I view these predicted outcomes as overly optimistic.
Now, the uninitiated might not notice the subtle change of tense there, from the subjunctive to the declarative. But those of us who are used to the pea-and-shell game will have seen that you’ve done something curious. You’ve started by saying that “Projections based on such previous evidence are still uncertain”. That is true, and not only true, it’s a huge understatement.
Here is the current state of climate science, the understanding of past climate changes, and the prediction of future climates.
• Not one climate scientist on either side of the aisle predicted the current ~ 15-year hiatus in warming. This lack of warming was highlighted as early as 2009 in a widely-circulated article called “What Happened to Global Warming? Scientists Say Just Wait a Bit”. In that article, various scientists were quoted as saying the warming would resume in a few years.
Well, we’ve waited a few years, Dr. McNutt. Their predictions, once again, haven’t come true … and despite that, here you are to lecture us. And where did this most seditious article entitled “What Happened To Global Warming” appear?
Why, it appeared in Science magazine … you want to be taken seriously in the field of climate science, yet you don’t mention this lack of recent warming at all?
• Not one climate scientist on either side of the aisle can explain the century or two of cooling leading up to the Little Ice Age in the 1600s. Why did the world slowly get colder back then? Oh, some folks claim it’s the sun, maybe so, maybe not … but really, no one knows.
• Not one climate scientist on either side of the aisle can explain the three centuries of slow general warming that have followed the Little Ice Age. What changed to gradually warm the planet, after it had been cooling for centuries?
• None of these things are explicable as the results of CO2, which supposedly is the secret control knob that regulates the global temperature.
So no one can explain the past climate changes, the CO2 explanation fails miserably at the hindcast, and you tell us that predictions based on the past are “still uncertain”, which is a big understatement and is certainly true.
But despite that uncertainty, despite that lack of knowledge, in the very next sentence you assure us breathlessly that predictions that “ENVIRONMENTAL CHANGES WILL BE TOO RAPID FOR MANY SPECIES TO ADAPT TO, LEADING TO WIDESPREAD EXTINCTIONS” are not alarmist enough for you …
Changes “will be” too rapid? “Will be”? And that’s not alarmist enough for you?
I truly hope you don’t realize what you are saying. I truly hope that you do not understand that that sentence of yours is nothing but strident alarmism that you are presenting under the guise of science.
Because you don’t know what the unknown environmental changes WILL do the species of the planet, that’s incredible hubris. More to the point, you have absolutely no evidence for your claim of “widespread extinctions”. Not one modern species has ever been shown to have gone extinct from climate change. Even Nature magazine has given up on the goofy idea of the “sixth wave of extinctions” that you are trying to sell. There is no evidence for your “extinction by climate change” claim at all.
Let me take a bit of a detour, and discuss the idea of a “natural experiment”. People always say we can’t study climate in a laboratory, and that’s true. We can’t use the lab to see how a big ecosystem full of real-world species might react to changing temperatures, for example. But we have natural experiments. And we’ve just conducted a very interesting experiment. Here’s the record of the experiment.

According to the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature dataset shown above, the global land is two and a half degrees warmer than it was around 1810. Two and a half degrees of warming in two centuries. That’s well beyond what is supposed to be the huge danger change of two degrees of warming … where are the corpses?
You seem to be concerned about the speed of the changes. Two and a half degrees in two centuries is fast, it’s well over half the speed of the changes you are concerned about. As a result, we should have seen at least some evidence for your claim that warming causes extinctions … perhaps you could name the species that have gone extinct from warming during that natural experiment? I ask, because I’ve looked very hard, and I haven’t found even one.
You continue with your litany of unsubstantiated worries:
Even species that might tolerate the new environment could nevertheless decline as the ecosystems on which they depend collapse. The oceans will become more stratified and less productive.
The oceans WILL become more stratified? They WILL become less productive? And you say species “could” decline, but the ecosystem collapse is presented without qualifiers? My dear lady, you just told us that all of these “projections” are very uncertain. Let me suggest that you lose the “will become” and the “will happen”. You don’t know if warmer oceans will be more or less productive, and that kind of puffery just makes people point and laugh. I implore you, stop with the pronouncements from on high. You just got appointed, it’s true, but only to the editorship of Science, not to a more celestial and all-seeing post.
In addition, perhaps you could point to an example of a thermally-caused “ecosystem collapse” from the two and a half degrees C warming of the last two centuries? You know … evidence?
You go on …
If such ecosystem problems come to pass, the changes will affect humans in profound ways. The loss in ocean productivity will be detrimental for the 20% of the population that depends on the seas for nutrition. Crops will fail more regularly, especially on land at lower latitudes where food is in shortest supply.
The first part is good, you preface your statements with “IF the ecosystem problems come to pass”. The rest of it, however, is just more unsupported, uncited, unverified, and untrue fears. You have no evidence that a couple of degrees of warming will make the crops “fail more regularly”. Again, we’ve just run a natural experiment. We’ve just seen what happened when the land temperatures went up two and a half degrees from 1810 to the present. So please tell us, Dr. McNutt …
Where is the evidence of any loss in ocean productivity from that two and a half degrees C of warming? I say that you don’t have even a scrap of evidence that warming per se causes a decline in oceanic productivity. I certainly have never seen any.
Where is the evidence of any tropical crop loss from the last two centuries of warming?
Where is the evidence of any cities submerged by sea level rise?
Where is the evidence of the claimed spread of diseases?
Where are the climate refugees? You are aware, I hope, that the UN Environmental Programme climate specialists, part of the “97% consensus”, confidently predicted 50 million climate refugees by 2010 … perhaps you could point those refugees out for those of us who can’t find them?
Or perhaps you’re not aware of the dozens of such failed predictions by members of the fabled “97% consensus”. There’s no problem if you’re not aware of those unsuccessful “scientific” forecasts, I mean after all you’re a geologist, not a climate scientist … but if you lack that kind of basic knowledge of the climate field, then why are you attempting to lecture us on the subject?
Sadly, it seems that like many other good honest folk, you are simply parroting claims of danger that you have swallowed without ever thinking critically about them. Reconsider the natural experiment. We’ve had two and a half degrees of warming, and from everything I can find, it wasn’t harmful to the planetary denizens. There were no climate refugees. The coral atolls didn’t go underwater, we still have them. According to the IPCC, there’s been no increase in extreme weather events. No cities had to be evacuated because of sea level rise.
Two and a half degrees C, and not only were there no catastrophes from that warming, quite the opposite. Overall, it was beneficial to plants, animals, and humans alike. Expanded growing seasons and milder winters provided larger and more stable crops. Longer ice-free periods on the northern harbors and rivers allowed increased commerce. Milder winters killed fewer people … what’s not to like?
Now, you claim to be a scientist, Dr. McNutt. And I’m happy to be proven wrong when I say that your climate fears are not based in reality. To prove me wrong, you need to provide evidence. Not claims. Not solemn warnings of future disasters unencumbered by any historical parallel. You need to provide evidence.
So if you’d be so kind as to point out the past catastrophes that came from the last two and a half degrees C of rapid warming, your alarmism about the possibility of another two and a half degrees might at least contain a hint of realism, even if it’s only a Hollywood “based on a true story” kind of realism.
If you can’t find any thermal catastrophes from that 2.5 degrees of warming, on the other hand, an honest scientist would change her views accordingly … your call.
Heck, you’re so new to the field that you don’t even have your alarmist talking points straight. Al Gore gives classes in this stuff so his minions will all be singing from the same hymnbook, you might borrow a copy. Because according to the alarmists, the effect of the CO2 warming will be greatest in the extra-tropics and the polar regions. In those areas it’s supposed to affect mostly nighttime temperatures, and particularly in the winter.
So your claim that crops will fail “at lower latitudes where food is in shortest supply” is in direct disagreement with the alarmist predictions of danger at the Poles.
Not only that, but your uncited claim of tropical losses is also in direct disagreement with the historical data, which shows that the tropics has warmed the least of all of the latitudinal zones. The tropical warming since 1900 is lost in the noise, your claim of tropical crop loss is a sad joke. You should at least switch latitudes and join up with your co-religionists and Al Gore’s minions in trying to scare people about a warming Arctic … at least that was happening, although unfortunately for alarmists like yourself, Alaska cooled substantially over the first decade of the 21st century, so now the evidence is mixed.
And in any case, where are my minions? I want the government to use their Solyndra funds to provide me with minions, like the ones Al Gore trains using petrodollars he pocketed from the oil companies for his TV station. How come Al has minions and I don’t? I guess the moral is, first get the oil million$, then you’ll get the minions. I’m obviously a slow learner regarding the first part of that … and how come Al gets the petrobucks and nobody says a word, but skeptics get tarred as being on the oil companies payroll but don’t get a dime? … however, I digress. You go on to say:
This unfavorable environmental state could last for many thousands of years as geologic processes slowly respond to the imbalances created by the release of the fossil carbon reservoir. The time scale for biodiversity to be restored, with all the benefits that it brings, will be even longer.
Tertullian says that the Roman Emperors had a slave whose job was to whisper in the Emperor’s ear “Respice post te! Hominem te memento!” In that respect, Dr. McNutt, let me be the slave who reminds you that you are merely the latest future ex-Editor-In-Chief of Science, a once-great magazine.
And while that post still swings a certain (although sadly diminished) amount of weight, it does not confer upon you ex oficio the ability to see “many thousands of years” into the future. You are attempting to channel Cassandra, and you are failing at it spectacularly. I cannot say this strongly enough. Activism is not your friend. The stronger the Editor-In-Chief of Science is as an activist, the less authority the Editor-In-Chief has as a scientist, and the less authority Science has as a scientific journal. What part of “conflict of interest” do you and Bruce Alberts and Donald Kennedy not understand? You cannot be both the peer-reviewer, the gate-keeper who arbitrates which science is worth publishing, and at the same time be a strong scientific alarmist pushing a particular belief as well.
So please, don’t bother us with any more of your unsupported fears about what a bit of warming might do. You’re actually in good shape yet. Yes, you struck out badly in the first inning, but there’s lots of the game left before you’re an ex-, and that just means don’t repeat your mistakes when you come up to bat again.
What you need to be concerned with is what your magazine does, not what the climate does. Lecturing people when your own house is in such bad order does not make you look wise, it makes you look hypocritical. You need to attend to the very poor quality of the studies you are publishing before you start lecturing people about climate science. How about giving us an editorial about how your predecessors didn’t enforce the “archive your data and code” policy, and whether you plan to continue the now time-honored tradition of ignoring the policy? That’s something you can speak about with authority.
After that, perhaps you might give us an editorial about how you are renouncing the anti-scientific practice of using co-authors to review each others’ work? That would be interesting. Or how about an editorial review of the ethical implications of Peter Gleick’s actions, and what their general acceptance by mainstream climate scientists reveal about the nature and extent of Noble Cause Corruption? That would be more than welcome.
But please … no more schoolmarmish lectures, and no more channeling the Ehrlichs and Holdrens. We’ve had enough failed serial doom-casters to last us for decades. You do not want to add your name to that list of unsuccessful catastrophe-mongers.
I say all of this to you for several reasons. First, I can’t stand to see someone driving the bus off the cliff without warning them. You’re doing both your reputation and that of Science magazine great damage through your alarmism, and in my world I am obliged to say something.
Second, there’s an old adage that says “It is better to light one little cylinder of fossil-fuel-derived wax with a wick in it, than to curse the darkness,” or something like that. I’m not the man to sit idly by when something I care about is imperiled.
Next, I say it because as an amateur scientist, I’m a huge fan of the process we call science, and I hate to see the journals flouting scientific transparency and blatantly shilling for one side or the other in a scientific debate.
And curiously, I say it because I truly wish you well. You do have an amazing opportunity, one I’d love to have. You have the chance to turn Science back into a serious, reputable scientific journal.
Plus scuba divers get my support, and women divers who’ve done underwater explosives training with the SEALS get my unalloyed, albeit somewhat jealous, awe and respect.
The main issue is, I’d like to see Science magazine become what it once was—a science magazine without an axe to grind, and without an agenda other than to be the best scientific journal on the planet.
Because as soon as you start grinding that axe and pursuing that agenda, you’ve become an axe-woman on a mission, not a scientist … and although the world needs good axe-women on missions, and I’m sure you’re a very good one when the situation arises, both Science the journal and science itself suffers when the Editor-In-Chief of Science magazine takes up axe-grinding. It destroys your credibility as a major arbiter of what science should be published.
My very best regards to you, and my best wishes for your tenure as Editor-In-Chief, and for the magazine in your hands,
w.
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Pamela Gray says:
August 7, 2013 at 11:29 am
While in general I respect your opinion, Pamela, and I thank you for posting it, as you point out, you have no evidence for your claim.
You say yourself that it is only is your ASSUMPTION … but unfortunately, your assumption is not true in the slightest. I wrote exactly what I wanted to write, and I wrote it in order to provoke controversy. At this point, I’ve been at the game long enough to judge to the ha’penny which of my statements will provoke controversy, and about how much.
I knew very well I was stepping into a minefield, Pamela, I’d have to be an idiot not to expect explosions. And yet I stepped into it … and now you blithely claim that I did that accidentally, that I didn’t know it was a minefield? Do I really seem that unaware to you?
I put various statements into that controversial paragraph as I was writing it, and then took them out, or re-worded them, or changed them entirely. Why? Because I knew it would be controversial. I finally boiled what I was going to say to two things that I knew that I could defend. One was that men lie to good-looking women, and the other was that Dr. McNutt is a good-looking woman. Both undeniably true, both politically incorrect, both very carefully chosen and worded.
And despite your claim that I’m too dumb to predict what the outcome would be, I fully expected the resulting poolpah. I’d be a fool not to, and more to the point, that poolpah was the intended outcome of my writing. That’s why I spent so much time on the exact wording of that paragraph. Look, I understand that others might just toss off their posts, and so you think I do too.
I don’t, particularly not with posts of this type and nature. I think through the consequences to the best of my abilities. I write them and re-write them, and sleep on them and tear them out and write them again. After all, it’s my name on them, I’m the one who will take the heat, so after some interesting learning experiences I’m very cautious and deliberate about what I write. As a result, your claim that I was surprised by the fact that some mines exploded when I deliberately stepped into the minefield is … well, I’ll just call it at odds with the facts.
The unpleasant part is that based only on your assumptions, you are accusing me of lying about it. I don’t do that, Pamela. You say I should eat humble pie, implying that I’m unwilling to eat it. I’ve eaten lots of humble pie right out in public here on WUWT for being wrong, but this is not one of those times. I knew damn well what I was stepping into, and I stepped into it deliberately and with full consideration of the consequences.
Not only that, but I’ve done this exact same thing before, written to stir up controversy and provoke passionate discussion. And I’ve explained before that that was exactly what I was doing.
And there were folks then, just like you, that didn’t believe it then either, that couldn’t accept the fact that I plan out the effects and outcomes of my controversial posts and comments and consider their reception down to the finest detail I can think of … but I do.
Sometimes I write to clarify my own thoughts. Sometimes I write to encourage people to get involved in some field of interest. Sometimes I write because there’s something I have to write and I won’t sit easy until I do. Sometimes I write to entertain, sometimes I write to educate, and sometimes I write to agitate, to stir up controversy.
And yes, I know the difference between all of them, and I know which one I’m doing at any time. I am very aware of and a keen student of the effects my words have on my readers, and I fit my words to my purpose accordingly. You’ll have to admit that I’m a pretty good wordsmith … and I didn’t get that way by ignoring the outcomes of my words, or by just throwing things out there and being constantly surprised by the results. Plus I’ve been busted for not being politically correct so many times now that I know exactly where the red line is for that pseudo-crime in a host of spheres.
Now, if you don’t want believe that I’m that thoughtful about my writing, or that dedicated to my craft, or that machiavellian, or that good a writer, or that perceptive about the effect of my words, or that I’m too blind to see the bright neon-red danger lines of political correctness, that’s your business. Believe what you wish about me, I can only tell you what it looks like from here.
But you accusing me of lying, based only on your assumptions, when I pull back the curtain and show how the magic is done? Sorry, that’s not on.
My best to you,
w.
Gary Pearse says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:57 am
Thanks, Gary, but if you think you can induce me to say a single word about your measurement system for just how good looking Dr. McNutt might or might not be, I fear I’ll have to disappoint you. I mentioned the neon-red danger lines just above … that’s well over them.
w.
OK, Willis … Now I’m putting on my Bridgeplayer hat,.And I’m calling a spade a spade 🙂
I tried to be tactful in my comments in the (in hindsight, obviously futile) hope that you might recognize for yourself the folly and unwarranted disrespect for readers (particularly those, who like me took your post at face value – and tried to offer some constructive criticism) that your little game of “Guess the real [and apparently ever-changing] purpose of Willis’ post” demonstrates.
This was obviously not a very good “bid” on my part.
Particularly since you somehow succeeded in reading into my post that which I very carefully chose not to write (regardless of what I might have been thinking!) Here’s what you wrote:
Unless you would care to substantiate this with specific text from my comments (not Mosher’s), I’d appreciate it if you would retract this inaccurate “assessment” on the strength of which you appear to have declared your “success”.
But I take it from the rest of your “reply” that your “outrage” was fake, and you weren’t really “playing to the lurkers” after all (or if you were, you certainly don’t seem to give a damn about their perceptions and opinions, either).
In my books, this verges on intellectual dishonesty. Although I appreciate that YMMV, since you seem quite proud of the fact that you have accomplished the magnificent feat of drawing the attention and fire of John Cook and the SkS crowd.
And speaking of my books … Your choosing to resort to justifying your earlier comments with the utterly feeble excuse of the presence of McNutt’s photo accompanying her editorial – an innovation which no editor of any print or virtual media has ever done before, of course – is perilously close to blaming the victim.
As an “argument”, I would put this on a par with Lewandowsky’s ludicrous claim that Steve McIntyre and others should somehow have divined in 2012 that a 2010 E-mail from Charles Hanich (which made absolutely no mention of Lewandowsky) was from the great one himself!
I couldn’t help but notice that in the only snippet of my comments that you – no doubt, very carefully – decided were worthy of your attention (well, to the rather limited extent that you are actually paying attention to anything anyone says these days!) you ripped the following from its context:
Your choice, of course. But it’s a choice you made that leaves me no alternative but to conclude that my immediately subsequent:
was pretty damn close – if not right on – the mark.
But what do I know, eh? I’m just a Bridgeplayer who calls a spade a spade – and, most importantly, I don’t get a “million page views a year”, do I?!
However, I’ve certainly learned my lesson. Willis!
Next time you bestow on us one of your heartfelt (or not) “Open (or closed!) Letters” filled with attention-seeking fake emotion and/or outrage, I will quickly recognize that this is Willis making yet another bid in “bully pulpit” mode; the key word being “bully”, considering your performances in this thread.
And I’ll pass (although I shall reserve my right to label it as such, when I see you repeating the pattern!)
@Janice and @Pamela Gray,
It seems that the only person whose views are worthy of acknowledgement and/or <gasp> commendation in this thread are those of Willis. His thread, his [ever-changing] game, his rules!
Sorry if my comments might have led you both astray, thereby provoking his self-exculpatory wrath and scorn:-)
P.S. Janice, please call me Hilary! “Ms. Ostrov” makes me feel, well, as old as I am 🙂
Well, by my calculation, every woman who has commented on this section of your post (and you said that you take women’s views on these matters seriously) thinks it was inappropriate – and you have slapped every one of them down, usually at greater length than each of the posts you were responding to. Now you are telling us that you did it deliberately and knowingly.
Thank heavens women are not in the category of people whose views you don’t take seriously on these matters. The mind boggles at what your responses would have been like if that was the case.
johanna says:
August 7, 2013 at 3:34 pm
I did not say that I take womens views on these matters seriously, please quote my words. I will not allow you to put words into my mouth. I said:
I have paid very close attention to what the women have said here on this subject. As far as I know I have answered their objections carefully and in detail. I understand that you are upset, I said that above.
I just don’t think that upset is reasonable. I’ve told you my reasons why I don’t think so. You have not answered, or discussed a single one of my reasons or objections, preferring to attack me personally.
OK.
Johanna, I told everyone three days ago, way, way up in the comments, exactly what I had done and why. I have referred and linked to it a number of times since. I did it at nine o’clock on the morning that the post was published.
Now, three days later, you want to blame me because you just found out? Yes, I raised the issue deliberately, because I think that the politically correct refusal to discuss the effects of good looks on a person’s opportunities and advantages, the refusal to discuss what their appearance gains them and what it costs them, I think that refusal is childish nonsense in a world where physical beauty is a billion dollar industry and a face can launch a thousand ships. I wanted to raise the issue, specifically because it is controversial.
How about you talk about that, instead of just telling me I’m a bad man doing wrong things?
See my objection above, I never said a word about “seriously”. I didn’t take Boumbette seriously in the slightest, for example, specifically because I did what I said I would do, and paid very close attention to what she was saying. That turned out to be unpleasant, unsubstantiated mudslinging …
I have made a number of arguments, responding to each of your objections in a detailed manner. This is being held against me as writing “at greater length” than what the person wrote … this is now wrong, to respond at greater length than the woman’s comment?
OK.
And rather than responding to any of my detailed responses to what you said, you want to focus on the way I’ve treated the other women.
OK
Your complaint is that I “slapped them down” in some fashion. I did no such thing. I have answered them all with very specific and very detailed reasons and explanations … and somehow that is “slapping them down”?
OK.
Johanna, I have not treated the women in this thread any differently from the men. If you want to be taken seriously, stop complaining about the treatment, and deal with the issues. If you disagree with what I said to you, about the issues that you claimed were important but are now forgotten by you, then bring it on. But whining about how I’m treating other people? It’s a rough-and-tumble game, and at the wise insistence of you and others, I pull no punches for women.
Of course, when I treat the women like the men, now I’m “slapping them down”.
Well, Johanna, tell them to stand up and slap back, duh, that’s what the men do. But tell them to QUOTE MY WORDS when they do so. I would not want them to pitch a commotion like you’ve done, throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks, as a convenient way not to answer a single one of the objections I raised to your claims.
Get back to me when you want to discuss my responses to the issues you raised.
w.
OK, my bad, I did not quote your exact words. But in what way is a commitment to “pay very close attention” to a particular category of comments substantively different from taking them seriously?
I notice that you have not responded to either Hilary’s second post or to my central point – that 100% of female commenters think you were out of line.
Like her, I am disinclined to waste any further time on this, since apparently there is no possibility whatever that you might reconsider your views, despite the fact that the class of people whose comments you specifically promised to pay close attention to all disagree with you.
Hilary Ostrov (aka hro001) says:
August 7, 2013 at 2:32 pm
First, my thanks for your response.
Next, my apologies, Hilary. I inferred from the tone and the content of your post that you thought my actions were over the top. As you say that is not the case, I retract it entirely and without reservation.
My “outrage” was fake? I fear I don’t know what “outrage” in scare-quotes you are referring to, or why you’ve concluded it is “fake”. I don’t ever do fake outrage. Again, I ask, and again, and again—quote what it is you object to. Without a quote, I have no clue which part of either my long post or my many comments you think is “fake outrage”, and I am certainly not going to try to guess.
Exactly WHAT verges on intellectual dishonesty, Hilary. Now you’re sounding like Boumbette, all outrage and no details. And I’m happy to have Cook and the SkS crowd reading and thinking about my work, where is the loss in that? My intention in part is to get my message out to those who DON’T read WUWT. So while it’s by no means a “magnificent feat”, it is clear evidence that I am drawing readers who normally pay no attention to me.
I wanted to bring big publicity to the issues that I raised, the natural experiment and what it means. I wanted people to know about the size of the recent temperature rise according to the BEST data, and to think about what that says about the results of large warming.
This post has been up for three days. Here’s the statistics of page views over the entire last quarter, top five of my posts:
An Open Letter to Dr. Marcia McNutt, new Editor-In-Chief, Science Magazine 15,912
The Icy Nenana River 11,435
Climate Sensitivity Deconstructed 10,957
How Environmental Organizations Are Destroying The Environment 9,918
The Sixth First Climate Refugees 9,149
I’d say what I did was quite successful, Hilary. In three days, my latest post has fifty percent more page views than posts from a month ago. Not a “magnificent feat”, no. But my goal was to give my ideas the widest possible dissemination … and it looks like I did.
I’m a man, Hilary. When I opened that page, the very first thing that I saw was an artfully placed, professionally posed, slightly out of focus and carefully chosen head-shot of a good-looking woman. I looked back at other Editorials in Science, their usual head graphic is something related to the topic at hand, like the lower graphic on the same page.
Now, you may not have noticed her photo at all when you read the Editorial, or you glanced at it and moved on. But for me and for most men that I know, that is the first thing we would look at, and I’m sorry to report, the particulars of Dr. McNutts appearance would shape our hopes and expectations about the contents of the article.
As I said, I have no problem with Dr. McNutt using her good looks that way, to the benefit of both the magazine and her own ideas. I’d do the same thing myself. She, like me, wants the widest possible distribution for her ideas.
What I have a problem with is that although she’s using her good looks to sell the magazine, and more power to her to do so, this whole issue is totally taboo, forbidden by political correctness, can’t be discussed. And that means that we can’t discuss what her good looks cost her. I think that’s nuts. What do you think?
Pass. No context, little knowledge of the incident. Sorry.
Hilary, I had actually written a rather long response to your points, with what I ended up sending as the last part. Obviously, the part I sent touched on some of your earlier points as well, but it was a separate section at the end.
But I was not at all happy with the first part of my response. It was too passionate, and it didn’t hit either the right points or the right tone. I re-edited it a couple times, but I couldn’t make it work. So I cut it out entirely rather than risk misunderstanding.
As to whether these are “hooks” so I can tell you more about me, believe what you want. I don’t need any “hooks” to do that, I’m publishing my autobiography piece by piece. Above, I try to explain what my point of view is by explaining how I came to that point of view in my life. Looks that that doesn’t work for you.
It seems like my comment about a million pages views a year disturbs you. Let me go back and see what I said … ah, here it is.
Whatever I write, there are always people telling me that it’s either too long or too short. Most of those people have no experience writing posts for the web. I do, and as I pointed out to Dr. K.A. Rodgers, I must be doing something right …
I said it because I am very tired of random people claiming that my writing style is terrible. I wrote the piece just exactly the way I wanted it, long and curvilinear. My point to the good Dr. was, if my writing style is so bad, why do I get a million page views per year? Now, what you’ve turned that into in your mind, I have no idea, but I doubt it has anything to do with writing style …
So your complaint is that I’m bullying all these poor weak women in the thread? You made the same complaint regarding my treatment of Boumbette, to which I responded:
Rather than respond to my objection, you’ve simply repeated the allegation, this time I’m specifically a bully. So I guess that was your meaning, I’m bullying the women.
There’s a saying among men, a saying which might never have crossed your path. It goes, “If you want to run with the big dogs, you’ve got to piss with the big dogs”. Most men are not much on philosophy, but there’s plenty of levels of meaning in that one.
Women have demanded full equality, and I have supported that demand for years. But you can’t do that, demand full equality, and then complain that you are being bullied. See the previous paragraph for why.
And again, I say that my outrage is never fake, that’s total BS. As with all of my emotions that I write about, I always try to put my outrage to the best and highest use, but not one of my statements are false or fake. I wanted to provoke discussion of the issues, and I used my real outrage to do it. I don’t see that as a bad or wrong thing in any sense.
Hilary, here’s the ugly truth. All of us repeat that pattern. I often have more than one objective for my posts, and many times, not all of my hopes for the outcome are alluded to specifically. Is that deceptive? Every writer does it, including yourself. You have your inner hopes and your intentions of what might come to pass from writing any given piece. Many of those will never be mentioned explicitly in what you write. So what?
So yes, no need for vigilance on your part. You can always safely assume that I’m doing more than one thing with any of my posts, and further, you can assume that the actual outcome I’m shooting for may not be what you think it is. Feel free to warn people about that as you wish.
As I said, and have said before, I’m playing in a long struggle here, and my response is as deep and strong and subtle as I can make it. The fate of the poor of the world hangs on our collective decisions about pushing energy prices through the ceiling, and I always take that most seriously. I often have more than one objective for my posts, and sometimes a couple more. And no, I don’t generally reveal any of them, no more than you reveal your own inner hopes and fears and intentions for your writing, because its not part of the subject and just doesn’t come out in the writing.
But you should never assume that anything in my posts is fake or false. I don’t deal in fake emotions or feigned outrage. If I say I’m outraged, I am. What I do with that outrage is to try to harness it. And how I am harnessing outrage or any other emotion, or to what ends, may not always be obvious.
But to the best of my abilities, none of what I say is fake, feigned, or false in any sense. That’s always been my deal with my readers, and I have kept it faithfully.
My regards to you,
w.
johanna says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Thanks, johanna. Here’s an example. You might pay very close attention to what your blustering, irate, blowhard neighbor might say, for a variety of reasons.
But that doesn’t mean you take him seriously.
Best regards,
w.
johanna says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Regarding Hilary’s post, I happened to see yours first. See above for my response to Hilary. So sue me.
Regarding your central point, I’ve acknowledged several times that 100% of the women who commented thought I was out of line, they were offended.
I’ve also worked to explain in detail to each of you individually why I think that your shared upset is misplaced. Not that it is not real, but it is misplaced. And in response, Johanna, you have chosen not to discuss or mention a single substantive point I’ve made, or answer a single question that I’ve asked you.
OK.
Waste time? You haven’t even entered the discussion. Reply to the issues I raised, and I certainly might change my views as a result, that’s what I do … but you haven’t touched the issues even in passing. Instead, you’ve just repeated accusation after accusation against me.
Or you could leave, I’m OK with that, although I’ve certainly valued your comments. But you are laboring under a misconception that I said I’d agree with the women, or that I’d put it to a vote of the women. I said nothing of the sort. I pick my words carefully, I meant exactly what I said.
I said that I would listen very closely to the women. I have done so, and I have responded to your issues in detail, all of you. If there is an issue I didn’t respond to, bring it out, let’s discuss it. Here’s the puzzle for me:
Y’all seem to think that discussing a woman’s appearance should be totally taboo, in a world where beauty is incredibly valuable, and at the same time that it’s OK for Dr. McNutt to use her appearance to help sell the magazine.
I don’t think so, and I’ve explained why, but I’ve gotten no response to the issues and questions I raised. I’ve listened very carefully to you, and while you are all unanimous in your upset, none of you can tell me anything more than that it’s taboo, we don’t say such things … sorry, not good enough. Why not discuss what someone’s looks might cost them in a scientific context? I agreed to listen very carefully, not to agree with your position.
And so far, my careful listening has revealed that the position consists of what we say to children, no, dear, you mustn’t say such things, I get offended, we don’t say that … but that explains nothing. Why not say such things? Because someone somewhere might get offended? That seems to be the main logic behind all such bans.
So yes, I know you are all offended. I get that. But my experience of the world is that there’s always someone offended by something someone else says. At times a whole chunk of society gets offended. Muslims are offended by cartoons, and Hindus are offended by slaugherhouses. Should we stop cartooning or eating beef in response, so we don’t offend anyone? In fact, getting offended is a cottage industry in some circles. And sadly, it’s made its way into some European law, where it’s a crime to say certain things that people might take offense at.
So I fear that listening closely to your unanimous response, which boils down to “we’re offended that you should discuss the taboo subject of what a woman’s good looks might cost her”, doesn’t convince me that indeed that topic should be banned.
I said the facts are that she’s a well-educated, strong, good-looking, and wicked-smart woman, and that men lie to such women. I said that might be a factor in her willingness to jump into the middle of a debate in which she has little expertise. Am I wrong? Sure, I might be.
Now, there may be good reasons why those topics should be taboo, banned from discussion in a world where we all agree that 1 face = 1,000 ships, and where she’s legitimately using her face to help disseminate her ideas by the shipload. If so, I encourage you to let me know what those good reasons are. Because I’m afraid that “I’m offended by what you said” is not a reason at all, it’s a response.
My best to you,
w.
Willis, I’m going to have to put a few beers in the fridge. Metaphorically at least, my homeland Australia is “on the other side of the world” and at the rate you’re digging, I expect to see you quite soon. You’ll need a beer by then I expect. I’m thinking you’d be drinking Dos Equis?
Well, this back and forth is getting a tedious. But it is interesting that none of the women complaining about Willis’s attitude have addressed the real charge that I think Willis has made, namely that the lovely Dr. McNutt has been led down the garden path by the patronizing male mavens of the Climatist cult, and it is high time she used her evident (and probably superior) smarts and started thinking for herself. Or do Willis’s female critics have another explanation for the blinders Dr. McNutt is wearing?
I wonder what would happen if she did start thinking really hard about Willis’s “natural experiment,” and what it implies for the dogma that she has obediently spouted in her editorial. I’d like to see that happen, but I don’t reckon we will.
/Mr Lynn
That was “a bit tedious.” /Mr L.
I must have missed the part where you say you will send this letter directly to her, give her this URL, and tell her she has the opportunity to respond here in comments or even in a new post. She may also find the comments here interesting.
Amazing! What important points Willis made! — yet suddenly the argument is over the form and not the substance of what Willis said.
You are yelling at Willis when you should be screaming about McNutt! Sad, really sad. Talk about hijacking a thread!
McNutt was chosen for her position because she is a trusted person — trusted to continue the abuse that has brought a once great journal to its knees. Do any of you really believe there will be any change in policy there? And yet you nitpick Willis.
Have none of you any sense of what is important in what Willis wrote? You attack the honest man and let the deceitful bitch escape. Look at her and not at Willis. Keep you eyes on the ball. You people are losing it. Next thing you know there will be talk of Willis’ war on women.
God, people use your brains!
Eugene WR Gallun
I love this site, & I love reading Willis’ work. I learn so much & enjoy doing so.
I am also a bit of an enemy of PC, as my comments above show.
Google Frankfurt School for the mind control agenda of political correctness.
It is creeping Marxism.
I am hugely enjoying the to & fro on this post. My deepest respect to Willis for the huge efforts he has made in his replies, particularly to the ladies.
Here’s my take on the subject of looks: I’ve been dodging predatory Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, Schoolmates, Teachers, Priests, Friends, Acquaintances & neighbours since I was about 13 years old, & it can get a bit wearing.
I haven’t always dodged mind, & I’ve done my fair share of pursuing. 🙂
& the end result can be great fun.
& I’ve found that an attractive appearance certainly opens doors.
But it can also dig pits in front of your feet.
When heftier blokes see their women going google-eyed & weak kneed this raises problems.
As an adult, I’ve perfected,as far as I’m able, the art of the gentle turn down.
As a kid, such diplomacy didn’t work, & I’ve developed very swift feet, & a degree of viciousness
to compensate for my lack of heft.
Looks are indeed a mixed blessing, but as Willis so astutely points out, looks are how this world works, & to pretend otherwise is simply foolishness.
To finish, I’ll say that when I stop admiring pretty women, you can screw the lid down on my box & plant me, because I’ll be gone.
Work on please Willis.
Valuable work & in superb style.
Best regards,
JD.
JD, one of my absolutely favourite poems:
And if I’m living that way in an aged-care home one day, works for me. That said, I still don’t think writing highly-critical letters about someone’s alleged scientific biases and attractiveness works.
Dear Willis. I translated the open letter into Swedish with a short comment. I hope this is ok. The letter can be found at: http://larsil2009.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/om-vetenskapliga-tidskrifters-trovardighet/
/Lars Silen
I can’t see the sexism that you’ve been accused of. You have some fair points in my opinion. I really can’t stand the change from “if”, “possible” and “high uncertainty” to “will be…” either in one sentence or from one sentence to the next. It might be honourably intentioned and if I dare say that no matter the uncertainty, people should care about human impact on the planet and should be taking action. ‘Science’ magazine isn’t the place for this activism, especially activism that isn’t fully evidence supported.
Mr Lynn says: August 7, 2013 at 8:49 pm
Well, apart from the fact that it’s not only the women here who have noted Willis’ patronizing and condescending tone, I have yet to see any evidence – from Willis or anyone else – as to who specifically might have “led her down the garden path”.
It could just as easily have been Susan Solomon, Joelle Gergis, Naomi Oreskes could it not? Or perhaps – equally, if not more, likely – Caroline Ash, Lisa D. Chong, Maria J. Cruz, Julia Fahrenkamp-Uppenbrink, Pamela J. Hines, Stella M. Hurtley, Barbara R. Jasny, Paula A. Kiberstis, Melissa R. McCartney, Kristen L. Mueller, Beverly A. Purnell and/or Laura M. Zahn. All of whom, amongst others, just happen to be … wait for it … on the editorial staff of Science (along with a few men, of course)
Do you think that there’s even the slightest possibility that – while McNutt’s name (and picture) were attached to the piece – these <gasp> women might have contributed to the content of this travesty of an editorial?!
Or are they all by definition “extremely well educated, strong, strikingly good looking, and [wickedly-smart women]” to whom men have been telling lies because they’re intimidated by this devastating combination (or whatever the theory is supposed to be)?!
McNutt might even have commissioned Susan J. Hassol (a “science communicator” who did most of the writing of the recent travesty known as the AGU’s updated “Statement” on climate change) to ghost-write it (or at least draft it) for her.
Those are a few possibilities that come to my mind. But I’m sure that Willis’ theory must deserve far greater consideration as an “explanation”.
Friends:
I write in hope of ‘cutting the Gordion knot’ of the dispute concerning Willis’ mention of the good looks of Dr McNutt.
There are two pertinent issues and they are being confused.
Firstly, there is the question as to whether or not the good looks of Dr McNutt have affected the information which has been given to her and how that information was given.
Willis argues
Clearly, Willis states that his answer to the question is an opinion and – in common with all opinions – it may be wrong. But he has made several points in support of his opinion,and those points concur with the experience of many people both men and women.
Debate of his opinion would consist of points which contradict his opinion. No such points have been made except that some people have said the opinion makes them feel uncomfortable whether or not it is true.
Secondly, there is the question as to whether or not mentioning the good looks of Dr McNutt improves or reduces the effectiveness of what Willis wrote.
The answer to that depends on the effect which Willis intended.
It may be that mention of her appearance may have inhibited the willingness of Dr McNutt to change her view on the Editorial stance of Science magazine; perhaps or perhaps not. However, Willis says he did not have the ambitious aim of changing her view. He says
Willis says the effect he desired was to obtain maximum publicity for his views concerning Editorial bias of Science magazine, and he provides data which suggests he achieved that effect.
Anybody who desires a different effect is at liberty to write an open letter of their own.
I hope my observations are helpful to the discussion.
Richard
Oh good heavens. Must I get all “grandma” over you? Apologize to the woman. Most of the time my grandma never told me why I should. But she was a wise old woman. So I apologized without further justification. What did I learn? Often, it is better to shut the hell up and be wise than go on and on about being smart.
Quote—Why Bother?The magazine is Trash anyway?–Quote
Quote—–It could just as easily have been Susan Solomon, Joelle Gergis, Naomi Oreskes could it not? Or perhaps – equally, if not more, likely – Caroline Ash, Lisa D. Chong, Maria J. Cruz, Julia Fahrenkamp-Uppenbrink, Pamela J. Hines, Stella M. Hurtley, Barbara R. Jasny, Paula A. Kiberstis, Melissa R. McCartney, Kristen L. Mueller, Beverly A. Purnell and/or Laura M. Zahn. All of whom, amongst others, just happen to be … wait for it … on the editorial staff of Science (along with a few men, of course)—Quote
No connection whatsoever based on the contributions of most women on this thread demonstrating such lack of logic, consistency, comprehension and rigor that Willis has bashed them all over the field.
Really great blood sport.
@Willis 8/7 6:56 pm
The hypothesis I have yet to see discussed is do “such women lie to men”?
Why is there an assumption that “men lie to .. women” at play here? Perhaps she, as Editor in Chief commits lies of commission and omission on every page without the help of men.
Eugene WR Gallun at 5:37 pm is from what I can see the only other to have explored this vector.
For me, the question at issue is how do you reconcile the abstract and content of Blois, et al, with the very first line of the paper?
Recall, the first line:
Ref. 1 is Marcott-2013 (also Science, March 2013).
This first line is out of character with the abstract with it’s emphasis on repeating events. The first line references Marcott-2013 and Marcott backed away from 20th century conclusions because the 20th century data was “not robust”. McNutt should have known of Marcott’s semi-retraction — it was about a paper in her journal! The first sentence is a lie. Who put it there? McNutt either wrote it herself as editor (lie by commission) or let it pass into print (lie by omission).
In McNutt’s editorial, she states:
even the most optimistic predictions are dire.
Because of the use of superlative, this is a bald faced lie. All I need do is find one prediction that is not dire to refute it. Any prediction by Monckton will do. There are plenty of others.
So lies are involved here. They are not being committed solely by men.
No. Willis has not bashed them all over the field. One can have a justification temper tantrum in front of most women without causing any blood-letting at all. I’ve known women to leave their child screaming in the grocery isle whilst they finish their shopping. More often than not, the child, so wanting attention, would move to the next isle to continue the fit in order to stay within ear shot of mom. Usually it is best to let the child be as upset as he or she wishes when being corrected. An apology is still required, now or later, to make amends.