Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Are there cycles in the sun and its associated electromagnetic phenomena? Assuredly. What are the lengths of the cycles? Well, there’s the question. In the process of writing my recent post about cyclomania, I came across a very interesting paper entitled “Correlation Between the Sunspot Number, the Total Solar Irradiance, and the Terrestrial Insolation“ by Hempelmann and Weber, hereinafter H&W2011. It struck me as a reasonable look at cycles without the mania, so I thought I’d discuss it here.
The authors have used Fourier analysis to determine the cycle lengths of several related datasets. The datasets used were the sunspot count, the total solar irradiance (TSI), the Kiel neutron count (cosmic rays), the Geomagnetic aa index, and the Mauna Loa insolation. One of their interesting results is the relationship between the sunspot number, and the total solar irradiation (TSI). I always thought that the TSI rose and fell with the number of sunspots, but as usual, nature is not that simple. Here is their Figure 1:
They speculate that at small sunspot numbers, the TSI increases. However, when the number of sunspots gets very large, the size of the black spots on the surface of the sun rises faster than the radiance, so the net radiance drops. Always more to learn … I’ve replicated their results, and determined that the curve they show is quite close to the Gaussian average of the data.
Next, they give the Fourier spectra for a variety of datasets. I find that for many purposes, there is a better alternative than Fourier analysis for understanding the makeup of a complex waveform or a time-series of natural observations. Let me explain the advantages of an alternative to the Fourier Transform, which is called the Periodicity Transform, developed by Sethares and Staley.
I realized in the writing of this post that in climate science we have a very common example of a periodicity transform (PT). This is the analysis of temperature data to give us the “climatology”, which is the monthly average temperature curve. What we are doing is projecting a long string of monthly data onto a periodic space, which repeats with a cycle length of 12. Then we take the average of each of those twelve columns of monthly data, and that’s the annual cycle. That’s a periodicity analysis, with a cycle length of 12.
By extension, we can do the same thing for a cycle length of 13 months, or 160 months. In each case, we will get the actual cycle in the data with that particular cycle length.
So given a dataset, we can look at cycles of any length in the data. The larger the swing of the cycle, of course, the more of the variation in the original data that particular cycle explains. For example, the 12-month cycle in a temperature time series explains most of the total variation in the temperature. The 13-month cycle, on the other hand, is basically nonexistent in a monthly temperature time-series.
The same is true about hourly data. We can use a periodicity transform (PT) to look at a 24-hour cycle. Here’s the 24-hour cycle for where I live:

Figure 2. Average hourly temperatures, Santa Rosa, California. This is a periodicity transform of the original hourly time series, with a period of 24.
Now, we can do a “goodness-of-fit” analysis of any given cycle against the original observational time series. There are several ways to measure that. If we’re only interested in a relative index of the fit of cycles of various lengths, we can use the root-mean-square power in the signals. Another would be to calculate the R^2 of the cycle and the original signal. The choice is not critical, because we’re looking for the strongest signal regardless of how it’s measured. I use a “Power Index” which is the RMS power in the signal, divided by the square root of the length of the signal. In the original Sethares and Staley paper, this is called a “gamma correction”. It is a relative measurement, valid only to compare the cycles within a given dataset.
So … what are the advantages and disadvantages of periodicity analysis (Figure 2) over Fourier analysis? Advantages first, neither list is exhaustive …
Advantage: Improved resolution at all temporal scales. Fourier analysis only gives the cycle strength at specific intervals. And these intervals are different across the scale. For example, I have 3,174 months of sunspot data. A Fourier analysis of that data gives sine waves with periods of 9.1, 9.4, 9.8, 10.2, 10.6, 11.0, 11.5, and 12.0 years.
Periodicity analysis, on the other hand, has the same resolution at all time scales. For example, in Figure 2, the resolution is hourly. We can investigate a 25-hour cycle as easily and as accurately as the 24-hour cycle shown. (Of course, the 25-hour cycle is basically a straight line …)
Advantage: A more fine-grained dataset gives better resolution. The resolution of the Fourier Transform is a function of the length of the underlying dataset. The resolution of the PT, on the other hand, is given by the resolution of the data, not the length of the dataset.
Advantage: Shows actual cycle shapes, rather than sine waves. In Figure 2, you can see that the cycle with a periodicity of 24 is not a sine wave in any sense. Instead, it is a complex repeating waveform. And often, the shape of the wave-form resulting from the periodicity transform contains much valuable information. For example, in Figure 2, from 6AM until noon, we can see how the increasing solar radiation results in a surprisingly linear increase of temperature with time. Once that peaks, the temperature drops rapidly until 11 PM. Then the cooling slows, and continues (again surprisingly linearly) from 11PM until sunrise.
As another example, suppose that we have a triangle wave with a period of 19 and a sine wave with a period of 17. We add them together, and we get a complex wave form. Using Fourier analysis we can get the underlying sine waves making up the complex wave form … but Fourier won’t give us the triangle wave and the sine wave. Periodicity analysis does that, showing the actual shapes of the waves just as in Figure 2.
Advantage: Can sometimes find cycles Fourier can’t find. See the example here, and the discussion in Sethares and Staley.
Advantage: No “ringing” or aliasing from end effects. Fourier analysis suffers from the problem that the dataset is of finite length. This can cause “ringing” or aliasing when you go from the time domain to the frequency domain. Periodicity analysis doesn’t have these issues
Advantage: Relatively resistant to missing data. As the H&W2011 states, they’ve had to use a variant of the Fourier transform to analyze the data because of missing values. The PT doesn’t care about missing data, it just affects the error bars.
Advantage: Cycle strengths are actually measured. If the periodicity analysis say that there’s no strength in a certain cycle length, that’s not a theoretical statement. It’s a measurement of the strength of that actual cycle compared to the other cycles in the data.
Advantage: Computationally reasonably fast. The periodicity function I post below written in the computer language “R”, running on my machine (MacBook Pro) does a full periodicity transform (all cycles up to 1/3 the dataset length) on a dataset of 70,000 data points in about forty seconds. Probably could be sped up, all suggestions accepted, my programming skills in R are … well, not impressive.
Disadvantage: Periodicity cycles are neither orthogonal nor unique. There’s only one big disadvantage, which applies to the decomposition of the signal into its cyclical components. With the Fourier Transform, the sine waves that it finds are independent of each other. When you decompose the original signal into sine waves, the order in which you remove them makes no difference. With the Periodicity Transform, on the other hand, the signals are not independent. A signal with a period of ten years, for example, will also appear at twenty and thirty years and so on. As a result, the order in which you decompose the signal becomes important. See Sethares and Staley for a full discussion of decomposition methods.
A full periodicity analysis looks at the strength of the signal at all possible frequencies up to the longest practical length, which for me is a third of the length of the dataset. That gives three full cycles for the longest period. However, I don’t trust the frequencies at the longest end of the scale as much as those at the shorter end. The margin of error in a periodicity analysis is less for the shorter cycles, because it is averaging over more cycles.
So to begin the discussion, let me look at the Fourier Transform and the Periodicity Transform of the SIDC sunspot data. In the H&W2011 paper they show the following figure for the Fourier results:
Figure 3. Fourier spectrum of SIDC daily sunspot numbers.
In this, we’re seeing the problem of the lack of resolution in the Fourier Transform. The dataset is 50 years in length. So the only frequencies used by the Fourier analysis are 50/2 years, 50/3 years, 50/4 years, and so on. This only gives values at cycle lengths of around 12.5, 10, and 8.3 years. As a result, it’s missing what’s actually happening. The Fourier analysis doesn’t catch the fine detail revealed by the Periodicity analysis.
Figure 4 shows the full periodicity transform of the monthly SIDC sunspot data, showing the power contained in each cycle length from 3 to 88 years (a third of the dataset length).
Figure 4. Periodicity transform of monthly SIDC sunspot numbers. The “Power Index” is the RMS power in the cycle divided by the square root of the cycle length. Vertical dotted lines show the eleven-year cycles, vertical solid lines show the ten-year cycles.
This graph is a typical periodicity transform of a dataset containing clear cycles. The length of the cycles is shown on the bottom axis, and the strength of the cycle is shown on the vertical axis.
Now as you might expect in a sunspot analysis, the strongest underlying signal is an eleven year cycle. The second strongest signal is ten years. As mentioned above, these same cycles reappear at 20 and 22 years, 30 and 33 years, and so on. However, it is clear that the main periodicity in the sunspot record is in the cluster of frequencies right around the 11 year mark. Figure 5 shows a closeup of the cycle lengths from nine to thirteen years.:
Figure 5. Closeup of Figure 4, showing the strength of the cycles with lengths from 9 years to 13 years.
Note that in place of the single peak at around 11 years shown in the Fourier analysis, the periodicity analysis shows three clear peaks at 10 years, 11 years, and 11 years 10 months. Also, you can see the huge advantage in accuracy of the periodicity analysis over the Fourier analysis. It samples the actual cycles at a resolution of one month.
Now, before anyone points out that 11 years 10 months is the orbital period of Jupiter, yes, it is. But then ten years, and eleven years, the other two peaks, are not the orbital period of anything I know of … so that may or may not be a coincidence. In any case, it doesn’t matter whether the 11 years 10 months is Jupiter or not, any more than it matters if 10 years is the orbital period of something else. Those are just the frequencies involved to the nearest month. We’ll see below why Jupiter may not be so important.
Next, we can take another look at the sunspot data, but this time using daily sunspot data. Here are the cycles from nine to thirteen years in that dataset.
Figure 6. As in figure 5, except using daily data.
In this analysis, we see peaks at 10.1, 10.8, and 11.9 years. This analysis of daily data is much the same as the previous analysis of monthly data shown in Figure 5, albeit with greater resolution. So this should settle the size of the sunspot cycles and enshrine Jupiter in the pantheon, right?
Well … no. We’ve had the good news, here’s the bad news. The problem is that like all natural cycles, the strength of these cycles waxes and wanes over time. We can see this by looking at the periodicity transform of the first and second halves of the data individually. Figure 7 shows the periodicity analysis of the daily data seen in Figure 6, plus the identical analysis done on each half of the data individually:
Figure 7. The blue line shows the strengths of the cycles found using the entire sunspot dataset as shown in Figure 6. The other two lines are the cycles found by analyzing half of the dataset at a time.
As you can see, the strengths of the cycles of various lengths in each half of the dataset are quite dissimilar. The half-data cycles each show a single peak, not several. In one half of the data this is at 10.4 years, and in the other, 11.2 years. The same situation holds for the monthly sunspot half-datasets (not shown). The lengths of the strongest cycles in the two halves vary greatly.
Not only that, but in neither half is there any sign of the signal at 11 years 10 months, the purported signal of Jupiter.
As a result, all we can do is look at the cycles and marvel at the complexity of the sun. We can’t use the cycles of one half to predict the other half, it’s the eternal curse of those who wish to make cycle-based models of the future. Cycles appear and disappear, what seems to point to Jupiter changes and points to Saturn or to nothing at all … and meanwhile, if the fixed Fourier cycle lengths are say 8.0, 10.6, and 12.8 years or something like that, there would be little distinction between any of those situations.
However, I was unable to replicate all of their results regarding the total solar irradiance. I suspect that this is the result of the inherent inaccuracy of the Fourier method. The text of H&W2011 says:
4.1. The ACRIM TSI Time Series
Our analysis of the ACRIM TSI time series only yields the solar activity cycle (Schwabe cycle, Figure 6). The cycle length is 10.6 years. The cycle length of the corresponding time series of the sunspot number is also 10.6 years. The close agreement of both periods is obvious.
I suggest that the agreement at 10.6 years is an artifact of the limited resolution of the two Fourier analyses. The daily ACRIM dataset is a bit over 30 years, and the daily sunspot dataset that he used is 50 years of data. The Fourier frequencies for fifty years are 50/2=25, 50/3=16.7, 50/4=12.5, 50/5=10, and 50/6=8.3 year cycles. For a thirty-two year dataset, the frequencies are 32/2=16, 32/3=10.6, and 32/4=8 years. So finding a cycle of length around 10 in both datasets is not surprising.
In any case, I don’t find anything like the 10.6 year cycle they report. I find the following:
Figure 8. Periodicity analysis of the ACRIM composite daily total solar irradiance data.
Note how much less defined the TSI data is. This is a result of the large variation in TSI during the period of maximum solar activity. Figure 9 shows this variation in the underlying data for the TSI:
Figure 9. ACRIM composite TSI data used in the analysis.
When the sun is at its calmest, there is little variation in the signal. This is shown in the dark blue areas in between the peaks. But when activity increases, the output begins to fluctuate wildly. This, plus the short length of the cycle, turns the signal into mush and results in the loss of everything but the underlying ~ 11 year cycle.
Finally, let’s look at the terrestrial temperature datasets to see if there is any trace of the sunspot cycle in the global temperature record. The longest general temperature dataset that we have is the BEST land temperature dataset. Here’s the BEST periodicity analysis:
Figure 10. Full-length periodicity analysis of the BEST land temperature data.
There is a suggestion of a cycle around 26 years, with an echo at 52 years … but nothing around 10-11 years, the solar cycle. Moving on, here’s the HadCRUT3 temperature data:
Figure 11. Full-length periodicity analysis of the HadCRUT3 temperature record.
Curiously, the HadCRUT3 record doesn’t show the 26- and 52-year cycle shown by the BEST data, while it does show a number of variations not shown in the BEST data. My suspicion is that this is a result of the “scalpel” method used to assemble the BEST dataset, which cuts the records at discontinuities rather than trying to “adjust” them.
Of course, life wouldn’t be complete without the satellite records. Here are the periodicity analyses of the satellite records:
Figure 12. Periodicity analysis, RSS satellite temperature record, lower troposphere.
With only a bit more than thirty years of data, we can’t determine any cycles over about ten years. The RSS data server is down, so it’s not the most recent data.
Figure 11. Periodicity analysis, UAH satellite temperature record, lower troposphere.
As one might hope, both satellite records are quite similar. Curiously, they both show a strong cycle with a period of 3 years 8 months (along with the expected echoes at twice and three times that length, about 7 years 4 months and 11 years respectively). I have no explanation for that cycle. It may represent some unremoved cyclicity in the satellite data.
SUMMARY:
To recap the bidding:
• I’ve used the Periodicity Transform to look at the sunspot record, both daily and monthly. In both cases we find the same cycles, at ~ 10 years, ~ 11 years, and ~ 11 years 10 months. Unfortunately when the data is split in half, those cycles disappear and other cycles appear in their stead. Nature wins again.
• I’ve looked at the TSI record, which contains only a single broad peak from about 10.75 to 11.75 years.
• The TSI has a non-linear relationship to the sunspots, increasing at small sunspot numbers and decreasing a high numbers. However, the total effect (averaged 24/7 over the globe) is on the order of a quarter of a watt per square metre …
• I’ve looked at the surface temperature records (BEST and HadCRUT3, which show no peaks at around 10-11 years, and thus contain no sign of Jovian (or jovial) influence. Nor do they show any sign of solar (sunspot or TSI) related influence, for that matter.
• The satellite temperatures tell the same story. Although the data is too short to be definitive, there appears to be no sign of any major peaks in the 10-11 year range.
Anyhow, that’s my look at cycles. Why isn’t this cyclomania? For several reasons:
First, because I’m not claiming that you can model the temperature by using the cycles. That way lies madness. If you don’t think so, calculate the cycles from the first half of your data, and see if you can predict the second half. Instead of attempting to predict the future, I’m looking at the cycles to try to understand the data.
Second, I’m not blindly ascribing the cycles to some labored astronomical relationship. Given the number of lunar and planetary celestial periods, synoptic periods, and the periods of precessions, nutations, perigees, and individual and combined tidal cycles, any length of cycle can be explained.
Third, I’m using the same analysis method to look at the temperature data that I’m using on the solar phenomena (TSI, sunspots), and I’m not finding corresponding cycles. Sorry, but they are just not there. Here’s a final example. The most sensitive, responsive, and accurate global temperature observations we have are the satellite temperatures of the lower troposphere. We’ve had them for three full solar cycles at this point. So if the sunspots (or anything associated with them, TSI or cosmic rays) has a significant effect on global temperatures, we would see it in the satellite temperatures. Here’s that record:
Figure 12. A graph showing the effect of the sunspots on the lower tropospheric temperatures. There is a slight decrease in lower tropospheric temperature with increasing sunspots, but it is far from statistically significance.
The vagaries of the sun, whatever else they might be doing, and whatever they might be related to, do not seem to affect the global surface temperature or the global lower atmospheric temperature in any meaningful way.
Anyhow, that’s my wander through the heavenly cycles, and their lack of effect on the terrestrial cycles. My compliments to Hempelmann and Weber, their descriptions and their datasets were enough to replicate almost all of their results.
w.
DATA:
SIDC Sunspot Data here
ACRIM TSI Data, overview here, data here
Kiel Neutron Count Monthly here, link in H&W document is broken
BEST data here
Sethares paper on periodicity analysis of music is here.
Finally, I was unable to reproduce the H&W2011 results regarding MLO transmissivity. They have access to a daily dataset which is not on the web. I used the monthly MLO dataset, available here, and had no joy finding their claimed relationship with sunspots. Too bad, it’s one of the more interesting parts of the H&W2011 paper.
CODE: here’s the R function that does the heavy lifting. It’s called “periodicity” and it can be called with just the name of the dataset that you want to analyze, e.g. “periodicity(mydata)”. It has an option to produce a graph of the results. Everything after a “#” in a line is a comment. If you are running MatLab (I’m not), Sethares has provided programs and examples here. Enjoy.
# The periodicity function returns the power index showing the relative strength
# of the cycles of various lengths. The input variables are:
# tdata: the data to be analyzed
# runstart, runend: the interval to be analyzed. By default from a cycle length of 2 to the dataset length / 3
# doplot: a boolean to indicate whether a plot should be drawn.
# gridlines: interval between vertical gridlines, plot only
# timeint: intervals per year (e.g. monthly data = 12) for plot only
# maintitle: title for the plat
periodicity=function(tdata,runstart=2,runend=NA,doplot=FALSE,
gridlines=10,timeint=12,
maintitle="Periodicity Analysis"){
testdata=as.vector(tdata) # insure data is a vector
datalen=length(testdata) # get data length
if (is.na(runend)) { # if largest cycle is not specified
maxdata=floor(datalen/3) # set it to the data length over three
} else { # otherwise
maxdata=runend # set it to user's value
}
answerline=matrix(NA,nrow=maxdata,ncol=1) # make empty matrix for answers
for (i in runstart:maxdata) { # for each cycle
newdata=c(testdata,rep(NA,(ceiling(length(testdata)/i)*i-length(testdata)))) # pad with NA's
cyclemeans=colMeans(matrix(newdata,ncol=i,byrow=TRUE),na.rm=TRUE) # make matrix, take column means
answerline[i]=sd(cyclemeans,na.rm=TRUE)/sqrt(length(cyclemeans)) # calculate and store power index
}
if (doplot){ # if a plot is called for
par(mgp=c(2,1,0)) # set locations of labels
timeline=c(1:(length(answerline))/timeint) #calculate times in years
plot(answerline~timeline,type="o",cex=.5,xlim=c(0,maxdata/timeint),
xlab="Cycle Length (years)",ylab="Power Index") # draw plot
title(main=maintitle) # add title
abline(v=seq(0,100,gridlines),col="gray") # add gridlines
}
answerline # return periodicity data
}
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tallbloke says:
July 30, 2013 at 9:20 am
———————————————————————————————-
Here’s a solution to the solar planetary problem. Put your finger on a plasma ball. Orbit your finger around the glass. Stop thinking about gravity. Start thinking FTE
Venus, Earth, Jupiter? Try re-running the numbers for Mercury, Earth, Jupiter. These are the only planets for which flux transfer events have been observed.
The only way for solar tidal (gravity) hypothesis to work would be for the pioneer anomaly to have verified the push gravity hypothesis and the sun to have an iron core. Leif’s head could explode. Best to keep with the less messy options 😉
Mosh’ says: 2. you can test whether it impacts the spectral characteristics quite easily.
How so? This was the first thing I wanted to do when they did the first public release. But I gave up on BEST as unverifiable / untestable a long time ago since they only provided data in such a massive file that you needed a main-frame computer just to load it.
If it’s “quite easy” presumably someone within the team has already done it as part of basic QA. Where can I find the results?
Thanks.
RC Saumarez:
Why don’t you do this and tell us what you find?
I have a signal processing background, I took it seriously, but I’m more interested in the methodology than the conclusions . You are right though that I would expect a comparison of several different methods, not just one, before I took the results seriously. Of course Mann made the same mistake in relying on the re-statistic and not reporting other metrics such as r2.
Unlike with Mann, which was a peer reviewed publication and considered part of the permanent record—this is a blog post, expected to be exploratory in nature, and should not be assume to be “permanent” in any sense. (Blogs end, data bases get corrupted, etc.)
Greg:
???
What computer are you trying to load it on, that it fails?
I assume something more modern than an Apple ][.
Greg says:
July 30, 2013 at 9:32 am
….
Hi Greg
Thanks for your lucid observations. Well I had few years break in between. It is a hobby that I do not take too seriously, no one is particularly convinced anyway. If someone is interested to pursue in a further a bit of effort may be required. On two or three occasions I was asked by JC to write a post for her blog, but I declined her kind invitations.
BTW. Temps here
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/AuGTs.htm
are from hadcru3. Dr.S is source of the aurora data.
John West says:
July 30, 2013 at 9:54 am
but no amount of IR can do any of those things. WUWT?
It is mainly the IR that heats the Earth…
tallbloke says:
July 30, 2013 at 9:51 am
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/poppenhaeger-hd-189733a-has-been-tidally-influenced-by-the-hot-jupiter/
As I predicted, you misunderstood this paper too. Very early in the life of a star there is a coupling [not tidal but magnetic] between its stellar wind and the newly forming protoplanets. It is that mechanism, Poppenhaeger is taking about being disturbed by tidal effects back then. Not planets controlling stellar magnetic activity today. As she points out: “We can therefore exclude a stellar activity cycle to be the cause for the disagreement in activity levels”. From another recent paper of hers: “We conclude that there is no detectable influence of planets on their host stars”.
@Carrick
You are a signal processer and you take this seriously :
• “I’ve used the Periodicity Transform to look at the sunspot record, both daily and monthly. In both cases we find the same cycles, at ~ 10 years, ~ 11 years, and ~ 11 years 10 months. Unfortunately when the data is split in half, those cycles disappear and other cycles appear in their stead. Nature wins again.” ?
The last “signal processing” post by Mr Eschenbach on filtering and degrees of freedom also lacked a certain amount of DSP and statistical skill. I remarked that this was the case and was given a similar challenge. I responded by writing a very basic guest post:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/09/correlation-filtering-systems-and-degrees-of-freedom/
If someone presents himself as a guru on “one of the most influentual resources on global warming” (see top), I think that better than this is required. I have explained in the above post how correlation works – it seems a pity that Mr Eschenbach did not read the post that he provoked.
I commend the last paragraph of this post to you.
It is mainly the IR that heats the Earth… said Leif
I don’t think so:
the data
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2013/02/21/henrys-pool-tables-on-global-warmingcooling/
shows that most heat is coming into earth via the SH oceans
(if you would actually take the time to study them)
and IR does not heat the water, that much…
It is the SW sunlight that heats the oceans. How else do you explain the existence of clouds and weather?
The point is that although UV seems cold to the skin, it still burns after exposure, does it not?
So also with the water. The water has to absorb the UV and in the end it has to covert that UV to heat,
since water absorbs in the UV region/.
You can actually observe this phenomena if you swim in a pool of water unstirred by convection or wind and heated by the sun for a day. There are several layers of warm water…. why?
Hmm. It appears that I made another silly typo. Should have been “RSS” instead of “RMS”. Thank you for picking that up.
I will have to bow to your apparent infallibility that means you never make such mistakes when making corrections.
RC Saumarez, thanks for the link. I’ll parse it, may get a chance to respond, may not, depends on RL conditions.
I was ‘passing through’ today and often miss posts…. As to lagged-correlational studies, you might be interested in this.
I don’t think Willis would claim to be “guru”, but I’ll let him speak for himself. as I’m not particularly interested in food throwing exercises myself.
So then is the lack of Little Ice Age sunspots merely a coincidence? (apologies if this has already been covered)
HenryP says:
July 30, 2013 at 10:53 am
“It is mainly the IR that heats the Earth… ”
I don’t think so
Half of the incoming radiation is IR. That energy does not just disappear, hence contributes greatly to heating the surface and the air [land and water].
Leif says:
Yes, when I said “real” I was referring to a linearly separable deterministic (physical) process. As you note, I agree the fluctuation is present in the data, but it looks impossible to distinguish from a 1/f noise process, which is likely to be present judging by other low frequency peaks.
Nicola Scafetta: It is evident to me that Anthony and Willis are behaving quite dishonestly by trying to defame my research.
Please! That is absurd. Willis is critiquing your research and presenting an alternative method for exploring possible periodicities in the data.
Spence_UK says:
July 30, 2013 at 11:13 am
As you note, I agree the fluctuation is present in the data, but it looks impossible to distinguish from a 1/f noise process
The issue was [still is] whether such a fluctuation is present in the data [it is]. If the fluctuation would generate side lobes on the 11-yr sunspot cycle [it does]. If simple FFT could detect that [it can]. If the ‘side lobes’ are due to planets [they aren’t].
Leif Svalgaard: It is mainly the IR that heats the Earth…
Do you have a reference for that? Are you distinguishing between the relatively long wave IR and the relatively short wave IR? All my other references say that the earth is warmed by the full visible spectrum of incoming radiation.
What Matthew R. Marler said. Exploring an alternate method isn’t defamation.
Konrad says:
July 30, 2013 at 9:56 am
Try re-running the numbers for Mercury, Earth, Jupiter. These are the only planets for which flux transfer events have been observed.
Saturn exhibit’s aurorae and has a hexagonal shaped torus of cloud near the poles…
The only way for solar tidal (gravity) hypothesis to work would be for the pioneer anomaly to have verified the push gravity hypothesis and the sun to have an iron core. Leif’s head could explode. Best to keep with the less messy options 😉
Ray Tomes relativistic matter/energy conversion theory is still in play. That would cause differential gravitational pull from the gas giants in the z-axis over many years rather than cancelling per solar rotation as the x-y plane does.
http://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/ssbz-ssbr-ssn.png
And getting back on topic, the FFT of the z-axis data better matches the sunspot FFT
Tony Mach: Zero padding does not create any information, but it allows you to run a longer FFT, to get a resulting Fourier spectrum with more bins (finer resolution) – this is akin to interpolating in-between values, but should be better than interpolation.
Zero Padding does not create “information”. Zero padding adds bias to the estimates. Zero padding creates 0s in the parts of the series that, had they been measured, would almost surely have been non-zero. It is done for no other reason than to use a technique which would have good properties had there been no need for the 0 padding.
Leif
but it is in the data, so must produce side lobes on the 11-yr peak.
The ~100 yrs ‘cycle’ is a result of rectifying the Hale cycle, it’s not real. What we are observing is mainly the beat of 10 and 11 yrs (and 9*11.8yrs =106 yrs). http://virakkraft.com/SunspotFFT.jpg
Anthony Watts says:
July 30, 2013 at 11:27 am
What Matthew R. Marler said. Exploring an alternate method isn’t defamation.
If someone searches for a needle in a haystack with a pitchfork and fails to find it, and then declares the needle doesn’t exist, and calls the people who found it using a magnet cyclomaniacs, it might not be defamatory, but it does make them look stupid.
Leif, your focus is on the sidelobes, which is not the same thing I am interested in (I already understand where they come from, thanks to your explanation). The 1/f noise is more interesting in itself. It has many consequences, many counter-intuitive, and it behaves quite differently to “conventional” noise processes (white/iid, autoregressive). The physics of what causes such processes to arise is an interesting area.
Spence_UK says:
July 30, 2013 at 4:36 am
“I doubt the 102 year cycle is “real”.”
You and I are sympatico in most regards, however here, you are missing the fact that the 131 year beat modulation is evident in the time series plot.
At the root, there are two fundamental processes with central periods near T1 = 20 and T2 = 23.6 years. Let
x(t) = A*sin((2*pi/20)*t) + B*sin((2*pi/23.6)*t+phi)
Squaring this, get
x(t)^2 = A^2*sin((2*pi/20)*t)^2 + B^2*sin((2*pi/23.6)*t+phi)^2 + 2*A*B*sin((2*pi/20)*t)*sin((2*pi/23.6)*t+phi)
Use your trig identities to get
x(t)^2 = (A^2+B^2)/2 – A^2/2 * cos((2*pi/(20/2))*t+phi/2) – B^2/2 * cos((2*pi/(23.6/2))*t) + A*B*cos((2*pi*(1/20+1/23.6))*t+phi) – A*B*cos((2*pi*(1/20-1/23.6))*t-phi)
so, we see resulting periods of 20/2 = 10 years, 23.8/2 = 11.8 years, 1/(1/20+1/23.6) = 10.8 years and (1/20-1/23.6) = 131 years.
The Sunspot data is a magnitude function, basically the square root of this. That operation produces other harmonics, but these are the major ones. As I have shown, the Sunspot behavior can be qualitatively replicated with this type of model.
The important thing is, this all comes about because of fundamental processes at about 20 and 23.6 years. This is basically how long it takes for the Sun to return to a recurring state of magnetic polarity. So, besides the weak coupling I would expect, that makes me additionally leery of making a connection with astronomical phenomena having periods of about 11 years. It is periods of more like 20 and 23.6 years which would need to be matched.
RC Saumarez says:
July 30, 2013 at 4:26 am
“This is a fundamental error that leads to completely unreliable signal processing and spectral analysis.”
Not necessarily. It depends on what components are in the data. One of the reasons that simple “boxcar” filtering (averaging with full-width, back-to-back decimation) is extensively used for data collection and compression is that the zeros of the transfer function line up such that there is no aliasing to dc, and frequencies which would alias to near dc are severely attenuated. Some analysts at the top labs like to use a triangular weighting with half-width decimation, because there, also, the zeros fall precisely such that there is no aliasing to dc (because a triangular weighting is the convolution of two averages – for that reason, the envelope of the response falls off at a more rapid -40 dB/decade instead of the -20 dB/decade of the single average). The frequencies near dc are generally those with which we are most concerned.
Matthew R Marler says:
July 30, 2013 at 11:26 am
Leif Svalgaard: It is mainly the IR that heats the Earth…
Do you have a reference for that?
Does one need a reference?
All my other references say that the earth is warmed by the full visible spectrum of incoming radiation.
If you omit ‘visible’ I would agree. The ‘invisible’ part is half of all the energy. That energy does not just disappear. My comment was actually related to whether it was UV or IR that heat the Earth.
Leif
Another problem with your modulation pseudoscience. In AM the side bands are identical. The 10, 11, 11.8 are not.