Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Are there cycles in the sun and its associated electromagnetic phenomena? Assuredly. What are the lengths of the cycles? Well, there’s the question. In the process of writing my recent post about cyclomania, I came across a very interesting paper entitled “Correlation Between the Sunspot Number, the Total Solar Irradiance, and the Terrestrial Insolation“ by Hempelmann and Weber, hereinafter H&W2011. It struck me as a reasonable look at cycles without the mania, so I thought I’d discuss it here.
The authors have used Fourier analysis to determine the cycle lengths of several related datasets. The datasets used were the sunspot count, the total solar irradiance (TSI), the Kiel neutron count (cosmic rays), the Geomagnetic aa index, and the Mauna Loa insolation. One of their interesting results is the relationship between the sunspot number, and the total solar irradiation (TSI). I always thought that the TSI rose and fell with the number of sunspots, but as usual, nature is not that simple. Here is their Figure 1:
They speculate that at small sunspot numbers, the TSI increases. However, when the number of sunspots gets very large, the size of the black spots on the surface of the sun rises faster than the radiance, so the net radiance drops. Always more to learn … I’ve replicated their results, and determined that the curve they show is quite close to the Gaussian average of the data.
Next, they give the Fourier spectra for a variety of datasets. I find that for many purposes, there is a better alternative than Fourier analysis for understanding the makeup of a complex waveform or a time-series of natural observations. Let me explain the advantages of an alternative to the Fourier Transform, which is called the Periodicity Transform, developed by Sethares and Staley.
I realized in the writing of this post that in climate science we have a very common example of a periodicity transform (PT). This is the analysis of temperature data to give us the “climatology”, which is the monthly average temperature curve. What we are doing is projecting a long string of monthly data onto a periodic space, which repeats with a cycle length of 12. Then we take the average of each of those twelve columns of monthly data, and that’s the annual cycle. That’s a periodicity analysis, with a cycle length of 12.
By extension, we can do the same thing for a cycle length of 13 months, or 160 months. In each case, we will get the actual cycle in the data with that particular cycle length.
So given a dataset, we can look at cycles of any length in the data. The larger the swing of the cycle, of course, the more of the variation in the original data that particular cycle explains. For example, the 12-month cycle in a temperature time series explains most of the total variation in the temperature. The 13-month cycle, on the other hand, is basically nonexistent in a monthly temperature time-series.
The same is true about hourly data. We can use a periodicity transform (PT) to look at a 24-hour cycle. Here’s the 24-hour cycle for where I live:

Figure 2. Average hourly temperatures, Santa Rosa, California. This is a periodicity transform of the original hourly time series, with a period of 24.
Now, we can do a “goodness-of-fit” analysis of any given cycle against the original observational time series. There are several ways to measure that. If we’re only interested in a relative index of the fit of cycles of various lengths, we can use the root-mean-square power in the signals. Another would be to calculate the R^2 of the cycle and the original signal. The choice is not critical, because we’re looking for the strongest signal regardless of how it’s measured. I use a “Power Index” which is the RMS power in the signal, divided by the square root of the length of the signal. In the original Sethares and Staley paper, this is called a “gamma correction”. It is a relative measurement, valid only to compare the cycles within a given dataset.
So … what are the advantages and disadvantages of periodicity analysis (Figure 2) over Fourier analysis? Advantages first, neither list is exhaustive …
Advantage: Improved resolution at all temporal scales. Fourier analysis only gives the cycle strength at specific intervals. And these intervals are different across the scale. For example, I have 3,174 months of sunspot data. A Fourier analysis of that data gives sine waves with periods of 9.1, 9.4, 9.8, 10.2, 10.6, 11.0, 11.5, and 12.0 years.
Periodicity analysis, on the other hand, has the same resolution at all time scales. For example, in Figure 2, the resolution is hourly. We can investigate a 25-hour cycle as easily and as accurately as the 24-hour cycle shown. (Of course, the 25-hour cycle is basically a straight line …)
Advantage: A more fine-grained dataset gives better resolution. The resolution of the Fourier Transform is a function of the length of the underlying dataset. The resolution of the PT, on the other hand, is given by the resolution of the data, not the length of the dataset.
Advantage: Shows actual cycle shapes, rather than sine waves. In Figure 2, you can see that the cycle with a periodicity of 24 is not a sine wave in any sense. Instead, it is a complex repeating waveform. And often, the shape of the wave-form resulting from the periodicity transform contains much valuable information. For example, in Figure 2, from 6AM until noon, we can see how the increasing solar radiation results in a surprisingly linear increase of temperature with time. Once that peaks, the temperature drops rapidly until 11 PM. Then the cooling slows, and continues (again surprisingly linearly) from 11PM until sunrise.
As another example, suppose that we have a triangle wave with a period of 19 and a sine wave with a period of 17. We add them together, and we get a complex wave form. Using Fourier analysis we can get the underlying sine waves making up the complex wave form … but Fourier won’t give us the triangle wave and the sine wave. Periodicity analysis does that, showing the actual shapes of the waves just as in Figure 2.
Advantage: Can sometimes find cycles Fourier can’t find. See the example here, and the discussion in Sethares and Staley.
Advantage: No “ringing” or aliasing from end effects. Fourier analysis suffers from the problem that the dataset is of finite length. This can cause “ringing” or aliasing when you go from the time domain to the frequency domain. Periodicity analysis doesn’t have these issues
Advantage: Relatively resistant to missing data. As the H&W2011 states, they’ve had to use a variant of the Fourier transform to analyze the data because of missing values. The PT doesn’t care about missing data, it just affects the error bars.
Advantage: Cycle strengths are actually measured. If the periodicity analysis say that there’s no strength in a certain cycle length, that’s not a theoretical statement. It’s a measurement of the strength of that actual cycle compared to the other cycles in the data.
Advantage: Computationally reasonably fast. The periodicity function I post below written in the computer language “R”, running on my machine (MacBook Pro) does a full periodicity transform (all cycles up to 1/3 the dataset length) on a dataset of 70,000 data points in about forty seconds. Probably could be sped up, all suggestions accepted, my programming skills in R are … well, not impressive.
Disadvantage: Periodicity cycles are neither orthogonal nor unique. There’s only one big disadvantage, which applies to the decomposition of the signal into its cyclical components. With the Fourier Transform, the sine waves that it finds are independent of each other. When you decompose the original signal into sine waves, the order in which you remove them makes no difference. With the Periodicity Transform, on the other hand, the signals are not independent. A signal with a period of ten years, for example, will also appear at twenty and thirty years and so on. As a result, the order in which you decompose the signal becomes important. See Sethares and Staley for a full discussion of decomposition methods.
A full periodicity analysis looks at the strength of the signal at all possible frequencies up to the longest practical length, which for me is a third of the length of the dataset. That gives three full cycles for the longest period. However, I don’t trust the frequencies at the longest end of the scale as much as those at the shorter end. The margin of error in a periodicity analysis is less for the shorter cycles, because it is averaging over more cycles.
So to begin the discussion, let me look at the Fourier Transform and the Periodicity Transform of the SIDC sunspot data. In the H&W2011 paper they show the following figure for the Fourier results:
Figure 3. Fourier spectrum of SIDC daily sunspot numbers.
In this, we’re seeing the problem of the lack of resolution in the Fourier Transform. The dataset is 50 years in length. So the only frequencies used by the Fourier analysis are 50/2 years, 50/3 years, 50/4 years, and so on. This only gives values at cycle lengths of around 12.5, 10, and 8.3 years. As a result, it’s missing what’s actually happening. The Fourier analysis doesn’t catch the fine detail revealed by the Periodicity analysis.
Figure 4 shows the full periodicity transform of the monthly SIDC sunspot data, showing the power contained in each cycle length from 3 to 88 years (a third of the dataset length).
Figure 4. Periodicity transform of monthly SIDC sunspot numbers. The “Power Index” is the RMS power in the cycle divided by the square root of the cycle length. Vertical dotted lines show the eleven-year cycles, vertical solid lines show the ten-year cycles.
This graph is a typical periodicity transform of a dataset containing clear cycles. The length of the cycles is shown on the bottom axis, and the strength of the cycle is shown on the vertical axis.
Now as you might expect in a sunspot analysis, the strongest underlying signal is an eleven year cycle. The second strongest signal is ten years. As mentioned above, these same cycles reappear at 20 and 22 years, 30 and 33 years, and so on. However, it is clear that the main periodicity in the sunspot record is in the cluster of frequencies right around the 11 year mark. Figure 5 shows a closeup of the cycle lengths from nine to thirteen years.:
Figure 5. Closeup of Figure 4, showing the strength of the cycles with lengths from 9 years to 13 years.
Note that in place of the single peak at around 11 years shown in the Fourier analysis, the periodicity analysis shows three clear peaks at 10 years, 11 years, and 11 years 10 months. Also, you can see the huge advantage in accuracy of the periodicity analysis over the Fourier analysis. It samples the actual cycles at a resolution of one month.
Now, before anyone points out that 11 years 10 months is the orbital period of Jupiter, yes, it is. But then ten years, and eleven years, the other two peaks, are not the orbital period of anything I know of … so that may or may not be a coincidence. In any case, it doesn’t matter whether the 11 years 10 months is Jupiter or not, any more than it matters if 10 years is the orbital period of something else. Those are just the frequencies involved to the nearest month. We’ll see below why Jupiter may not be so important.
Next, we can take another look at the sunspot data, but this time using daily sunspot data. Here are the cycles from nine to thirteen years in that dataset.
Figure 6. As in figure 5, except using daily data.
In this analysis, we see peaks at 10.1, 10.8, and 11.9 years. This analysis of daily data is much the same as the previous analysis of monthly data shown in Figure 5, albeit with greater resolution. So this should settle the size of the sunspot cycles and enshrine Jupiter in the pantheon, right?
Well … no. We’ve had the good news, here’s the bad news. The problem is that like all natural cycles, the strength of these cycles waxes and wanes over time. We can see this by looking at the periodicity transform of the first and second halves of the data individually. Figure 7 shows the periodicity analysis of the daily data seen in Figure 6, plus the identical analysis done on each half of the data individually:
Figure 7. The blue line shows the strengths of the cycles found using the entire sunspot dataset as shown in Figure 6. The other two lines are the cycles found by analyzing half of the dataset at a time.
As you can see, the strengths of the cycles of various lengths in each half of the dataset are quite dissimilar. The half-data cycles each show a single peak, not several. In one half of the data this is at 10.4 years, and in the other, 11.2 years. The same situation holds for the monthly sunspot half-datasets (not shown). The lengths of the strongest cycles in the two halves vary greatly.
Not only that, but in neither half is there any sign of the signal at 11 years 10 months, the purported signal of Jupiter.
As a result, all we can do is look at the cycles and marvel at the complexity of the sun. We can’t use the cycles of one half to predict the other half, it’s the eternal curse of those who wish to make cycle-based models of the future. Cycles appear and disappear, what seems to point to Jupiter changes and points to Saturn or to nothing at all … and meanwhile, if the fixed Fourier cycle lengths are say 8.0, 10.6, and 12.8 years or something like that, there would be little distinction between any of those situations.
However, I was unable to replicate all of their results regarding the total solar irradiance. I suspect that this is the result of the inherent inaccuracy of the Fourier method. The text of H&W2011 says:
4.1. The ACRIM TSI Time Series
Our analysis of the ACRIM TSI time series only yields the solar activity cycle (Schwabe cycle, Figure 6). The cycle length is 10.6 years. The cycle length of the corresponding time series of the sunspot number is also 10.6 years. The close agreement of both periods is obvious.
I suggest that the agreement at 10.6 years is an artifact of the limited resolution of the two Fourier analyses. The daily ACRIM dataset is a bit over 30 years, and the daily sunspot dataset that he used is 50 years of data. The Fourier frequencies for fifty years are 50/2=25, 50/3=16.7, 50/4=12.5, 50/5=10, and 50/6=8.3 year cycles. For a thirty-two year dataset, the frequencies are 32/2=16, 32/3=10.6, and 32/4=8 years. So finding a cycle of length around 10 in both datasets is not surprising.
In any case, I don’t find anything like the 10.6 year cycle they report. I find the following:
Figure 8. Periodicity analysis of the ACRIM composite daily total solar irradiance data.
Note how much less defined the TSI data is. This is a result of the large variation in TSI during the period of maximum solar activity. Figure 9 shows this variation in the underlying data for the TSI:
Figure 9. ACRIM composite TSI data used in the analysis.
When the sun is at its calmest, there is little variation in the signal. This is shown in the dark blue areas in between the peaks. But when activity increases, the output begins to fluctuate wildly. This, plus the short length of the cycle, turns the signal into mush and results in the loss of everything but the underlying ~ 11 year cycle.
Finally, let’s look at the terrestrial temperature datasets to see if there is any trace of the sunspot cycle in the global temperature record. The longest general temperature dataset that we have is the BEST land temperature dataset. Here’s the BEST periodicity analysis:
Figure 10. Full-length periodicity analysis of the BEST land temperature data.
There is a suggestion of a cycle around 26 years, with an echo at 52 years … but nothing around 10-11 years, the solar cycle. Moving on, here’s the HadCRUT3 temperature data:
Figure 11. Full-length periodicity analysis of the HadCRUT3 temperature record.
Curiously, the HadCRUT3 record doesn’t show the 26- and 52-year cycle shown by the BEST data, while it does show a number of variations not shown in the BEST data. My suspicion is that this is a result of the “scalpel” method used to assemble the BEST dataset, which cuts the records at discontinuities rather than trying to “adjust” them.
Of course, life wouldn’t be complete without the satellite records. Here are the periodicity analyses of the satellite records:
Figure 12. Periodicity analysis, RSS satellite temperature record, lower troposphere.
With only a bit more than thirty years of data, we can’t determine any cycles over about ten years. The RSS data server is down, so it’s not the most recent data.
Figure 11. Periodicity analysis, UAH satellite temperature record, lower troposphere.
As one might hope, both satellite records are quite similar. Curiously, they both show a strong cycle with a period of 3 years 8 months (along with the expected echoes at twice and three times that length, about 7 years 4 months and 11 years respectively). I have no explanation for that cycle. It may represent some unremoved cyclicity in the satellite data.
SUMMARY:
To recap the bidding:
• I’ve used the Periodicity Transform to look at the sunspot record, both daily and monthly. In both cases we find the same cycles, at ~ 10 years, ~ 11 years, and ~ 11 years 10 months. Unfortunately when the data is split in half, those cycles disappear and other cycles appear in their stead. Nature wins again.
• I’ve looked at the TSI record, which contains only a single broad peak from about 10.75 to 11.75 years.
• The TSI has a non-linear relationship to the sunspots, increasing at small sunspot numbers and decreasing a high numbers. However, the total effect (averaged 24/7 over the globe) is on the order of a quarter of a watt per square metre …
• I’ve looked at the surface temperature records (BEST and HadCRUT3, which show no peaks at around 10-11 years, and thus contain no sign of Jovian (or jovial) influence. Nor do they show any sign of solar (sunspot or TSI) related influence, for that matter.
• The satellite temperatures tell the same story. Although the data is too short to be definitive, there appears to be no sign of any major peaks in the 10-11 year range.
Anyhow, that’s my look at cycles. Why isn’t this cyclomania? For several reasons:
First, because I’m not claiming that you can model the temperature by using the cycles. That way lies madness. If you don’t think so, calculate the cycles from the first half of your data, and see if you can predict the second half. Instead of attempting to predict the future, I’m looking at the cycles to try to understand the data.
Second, I’m not blindly ascribing the cycles to some labored astronomical relationship. Given the number of lunar and planetary celestial periods, synoptic periods, and the periods of precessions, nutations, perigees, and individual and combined tidal cycles, any length of cycle can be explained.
Third, I’m using the same analysis method to look at the temperature data that I’m using on the solar phenomena (TSI, sunspots), and I’m not finding corresponding cycles. Sorry, but they are just not there. Here’s a final example. The most sensitive, responsive, and accurate global temperature observations we have are the satellite temperatures of the lower troposphere. We’ve had them for three full solar cycles at this point. So if the sunspots (or anything associated with them, TSI or cosmic rays) has a significant effect on global temperatures, we would see it in the satellite temperatures. Here’s that record:
Figure 12. A graph showing the effect of the sunspots on the lower tropospheric temperatures. There is a slight decrease in lower tropospheric temperature with increasing sunspots, but it is far from statistically significance.
The vagaries of the sun, whatever else they might be doing, and whatever they might be related to, do not seem to affect the global surface temperature or the global lower atmospheric temperature in any meaningful way.
Anyhow, that’s my wander through the heavenly cycles, and their lack of effect on the terrestrial cycles. My compliments to Hempelmann and Weber, their descriptions and their datasets were enough to replicate almost all of their results.
w.
DATA:
SIDC Sunspot Data here
ACRIM TSI Data, overview here, data here
Kiel Neutron Count Monthly here, link in H&W document is broken
BEST data here
Sethares paper on periodicity analysis of music is here.
Finally, I was unable to reproduce the H&W2011 results regarding MLO transmissivity. They have access to a daily dataset which is not on the web. I used the monthly MLO dataset, available here, and had no joy finding their claimed relationship with sunspots. Too bad, it’s one of the more interesting parts of the H&W2011 paper.
CODE: here’s the R function that does the heavy lifting. It’s called “periodicity” and it can be called with just the name of the dataset that you want to analyze, e.g. “periodicity(mydata)”. It has an option to produce a graph of the results. Everything after a “#” in a line is a comment. If you are running MatLab (I’m not), Sethares has provided programs and examples here. Enjoy.
# The periodicity function returns the power index showing the relative strength
# of the cycles of various lengths. The input variables are:
# tdata: the data to be analyzed
# runstart, runend: the interval to be analyzed. By default from a cycle length of 2 to the dataset length / 3
# doplot: a boolean to indicate whether a plot should be drawn.
# gridlines: interval between vertical gridlines, plot only
# timeint: intervals per year (e.g. monthly data = 12) for plot only
# maintitle: title for the plat
periodicity=function(tdata,runstart=2,runend=NA,doplot=FALSE,
gridlines=10,timeint=12,
maintitle="Periodicity Analysis"){
testdata=as.vector(tdata) # insure data is a vector
datalen=length(testdata) # get data length
if (is.na(runend)) { # if largest cycle is not specified
maxdata=floor(datalen/3) # set it to the data length over three
} else { # otherwise
maxdata=runend # set it to user's value
}
answerline=matrix(NA,nrow=maxdata,ncol=1) # make empty matrix for answers
for (i in runstart:maxdata) { # for each cycle
newdata=c(testdata,rep(NA,(ceiling(length(testdata)/i)*i-length(testdata)))) # pad with NA's
cyclemeans=colMeans(matrix(newdata,ncol=i,byrow=TRUE),na.rm=TRUE) # make matrix, take column means
answerline[i]=sd(cyclemeans,na.rm=TRUE)/sqrt(length(cyclemeans)) # calculate and store power index
}
if (doplot){ # if a plot is called for
par(mgp=c(2,1,0)) # set locations of labels
timeline=c(1:(length(answerline))/timeint) #calculate times in years
plot(answerline~timeline,type="o",cex=.5,xlim=c(0,maxdata/timeint),
xlab="Cycle Length (years)",ylab="Power Index") # draw plot
title(main=maintitle) # add title
abline(v=seq(0,100,gridlines),col="gray") # add gridlines
}
answerline # return periodicity data
}
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Hi Willis,
I am unsure of how and where TSI is measured.
1) Does TSI just incorporate magnitude or does it include total energy at each frequency?
2) Previous to the Satellites, TSI was measured on the ground. Is it still measured on the ground? I
3) I know that now it is measured in space. How and where and what new technique?
4) Is there a comparison of the ground verses space based measurements?
5) Why does the enormous increase in high energy UV not show up in the TSI? Is the averaging so sever that the UV signal is “washed out”?
Thanks,
Jerry
Tony, I think your list is good, the only change I would make is your definition of magnitude and phase.
Magnitude is the RMS of the real and imaginary components, the phase is the four-quadrant arctangent of the real and imaginary components.
Willis says:
Figure 1 ARIM TSI
That’s not the ACRIM TSI, That’s the bloody PMOD modeled up nonsense.
PMOD Data here: http://acrim.com/TSI/composite_d41_62_1204.txt (Willis munged his link)
ACRIM data here: http://acrim.com/RESULTS/data/composite/acrim_composite_130329_hdr.txt
Ulric Lyons says:
July 30, 2013 at 3:23 am
Thanks for your observation Ulric.
@Tony Mach.
Although you say that phase is “more difficult”, it is essential in determining signal properties. Consider a signal with a nominally flat amplitude spectrum. If the phase of each component is zero, the signal is an impulse. If the phase is random, the signal is random. Correlation, which is determining the similarity between signals, depends on the crossed phase spectrum.
Phase is key to understanding the structure of a signal and has been ignored here. You get non-sinusoidal cycles, eg: a square wave or triangular wave, because the phases of the various components are aligned.
Ian H Australia says:
“I feel strongly that one needs to work out what each individual solar output component does to the global temp,ETC, as TSI evens out individual components, and is thereby not that useful. We should be seeing how proton, electron, Ultra-Violet, X Rays, Ap, 10.7, etc, etc each individually have on earths various layers of atmosphere, jetstreams, temperature, magnetic effects, other reactions, the differing reactions at poles and differing latitudes, etc, etc. Using a broad brushed TSI is not going to achieve any real detailed meaningful results. And help us that much really in finding all the answers to Solar-Climate-Weather-etc interactions…There is so much out there we need to research and learn.
However, the problem lies in that most of this solar component data is only very recent!”
I’m with Ian on this, as Willis has attested there are no reliable cycles in the record to date. This could easily be due to “emergent phenomenon” (phase changes, energy conversions, convection currents, etc., (basically work), etc.); but it also could be partially due to a component of solar output that varies independently of the total. I’ve used this example before: an acid copper plating solution can be working fine or producing scrap at the exact same 500 ppm TOC because there’s some two dozen organic components and the relative quantities matter, too little carrier for the amount of dye (even though the total is the same as when they are balanced) drastically alters the results.
Willis
The relationship between sun spot count and global mean temperature is only in the long-term of about 94-years running average as shown:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/sidc-ssn/mean:1128/normalise/plot/hadcrut4gl/mean:1128/normalise
The correlation is an extremely strong one.
tallbloke says:
July 30, 2013 at 6:12 am
“Thanks for your observation Ulric.”
In fact it is the shape of the orbit of Jupiter that also effects the timing of the J-E-V syzygy nodes. Jupiter moves from the north node of the ecliptic plane to the south node in close to 4 Venus synods, and from the south node to the north node in close to 3.5 Venus synods. It’s looking like solar cycles with a maximum having the J-E-V syzygies in line with the nodes are more likely the longer ones at around 7 Venus synods.
“DirkH says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Willis Eschenbach says:
July 29, 2013 at 3:23 pm
“The most obvious difference is in the size of the peaks at around 52 years. Again, I suspect the result is because of the “scalpel” technique, but I have no way of demonstrating that.”
That looks indeed as if the BEST scalpel technique kills the low frequency periodicities. (Mosher’s defense “You’re wrong” doesn’t really cut it. I doubt he understands what he did.)
1. your wrong in your description of it
2. you can test whether it impacts the spectral characteristics quite easily.
You assume that there is low frequency information there, however, the source of that assumption is a data series ( crutem) that is seriously flawed.
sorry I am a bit late to the discussion
and I don’t have the time now to read all comments
but what I am missing in the post is something like the planetary movements (per their mass?) versus the sunspot counts
We know SST can be correlated with SSN, but I hope you will see that SSN can be correlated with planetary movement.
This is what the paper from William Arnold was all about:
http://www.cyclesresearchinstitute.org/cycles-astronomy/arnold_theory_order.pdf
My best fit for the drop in maximum temps. shows that around 40 years ago counted from 2012, we reached the maximum speed of warming. All fits (with high correlation) show that in 1995 we turned from warming to cooling (as far as maxima is concerned). The difference between 1995 and 1972 is 23.
That is one node (of 2 “current” solar cyces) as William Arnold pointed out. William Arnold did not agree with the current use of the half solar cycles. OTOH, he was just out by 5 years but he did not have my data to work with so his beginning and ending could be a bit wrong, for the present. Now, he next node (quarter part of the a-c wave) could be between 22 and 29 years. I am trying to narrow this down from his notes on the planetary movements. Unfortunately I never studied astronomy. I have no clue as to what his dials there mean, Can anyone of you help me out with that? I am sure this is something like the Rosetta stone, but we must get the translations right (of the movements of the planets and their weight i.e. gravitational force, exerted on the sun?)
If it is 22, we could arrive there in 1995+22= 2017. That (the bottom) would be the beginning of the major drought times for the higher latitudes because there will be less moisture going >[40] and the speed of cooling is constant for a period of time around the bottom of the a-c wave – no acceleration. Already, there should be a noticeable decrease in precipitation on the Great Plains as we are curving down, no doubt currently still being blamed on “man made climate change”.
(Hoover dam water is lower than normal?).
So, truly there is and there will be climate change with a major impact on the food production in USA and Canada. It is just not man made…..It is God-made. The planetary system works like an elastic band. lf it was not there we would have runaway warming and /or runaway cooling.
We must get the date right for the bottom of my curve:
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2012/10/02/best-sine-wave-fit-for-the-drop-in-global-maximum-temperatures/
Ulric Lyons says:
July 30, 2013 at 7:35 am
Typo.. at around 7.5 Venus synods.
Spence_UK says:
July 30, 2013 at 4:36 am
I doubt the 102 year cycle is “real”. It may be, but the evidence is pretty thin.
The strongest evidence is the data itself: http://sidc.be/sunspot-index-graphics/wolfaml.php with low cycles every ~100+ years. Now, I don’t think there is a real cycle in the sense that there is a periodic physical process that gives rise to the longer-term variation, but for the last three hundred years there is a clear 100-yr variation which could be just a random fluctuation, but it is in the data, so must produce side lobes on the 11-yr peak.
Dr. Lurtz says:
July 30, 2013 at 5:48 am
1) Does TSI just incorporate magnitude or does it include total energy at each frequency?
TSI is the Total of all energy at all frequencies
2) Previous to the Satellites, TSI was measured on the ground. Is it still measured on the ground?
Not in its usual form, although there are measurements of atmospheric attenuation.
3) I know that now it is measured in space. How and where and what new technique?
On satellites high above the atmosphere. One is a million miles away, another just a few thousand. To measure TSI you simply let raw sunlight fall upon a black surface and measure the resulting heating. In principle this is as simple as it can be. In practice it is a lot more complicated, but still straightforward: sunlight is let into the instrument through a small hole the area of which is known with high accuracy. Then the light is absorbed by a black surface in form of a cone. The cone is wound by an electrical wire through which a current flows. The current heats the cone to maintain a constant temperature. The amount of current necessary to keep the temperature constant is measured accurately and is a measure of the energy absorbed. The instrument is calibrated on the ground before launch so that we know what current to expect for a given incoming radiation flux.
4) Is there a comparison of the ground verses space based measurements?
No, the space based measurements are so much more precise.
5) Why does the enormous increase in high energy UV not show up in the TSI?
Because there is no ‘enormous increase’ in energy received. There is high variability of extreme UV, but the total energy at those wavelengths is very small.
tallbloke says:
July 30, 2013 at 6:10 am
That’s not the ACRIM TSI, That’s the bloody PMOD modeled up nonsense.
Which is fine as ACRIM has severe problems [e.g. a spurious yearly variation]. PMOD has problems too, but is generally better than ACRIM. For Willis plot it makes no real difference which is used.
Great post from Willis, it will take some time to get it in either from the article or the additional comments.
Lot of other stuff worth attention and some not so, where my comment will end up depends on, as always who is judging.
– Average solar output varies over centuries, so is the temperature, need to be compared over similar period (some temperature lag is likely)
– For some time now I have concluded that it is not so much sunspot cycle direct intensity or the TSI, but the energetic events (CMEs) that are the ones to have effect on the natural climate change
Geomagnetic measurements combine both solar and the Earth’s magnetic field variability. I have shown elsewhere that these measurement do give a good correlation with the natural temperature variability.
Now we have one more indicator of the geomagnetic activity (sun-Earth) in form of the Danish aurora records.
And what do they show?
You can see here:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/AuGTs.htm
Well, to me it looks pretty conclusive, no ‘cyclo-hypertension’ here, very little response at SC but lot more at les known Hale Cycle.
Dr. S. may dismiss the above, since he is only half correct (on 11yr) and half wrong (Hale Cycle), but then he insists on always being correct
Total number of hits at my web-graphs at this moment is 199196 ; at 200k would be good time to take a break, and give Dr. S and many others a bit of a rest.
Thanks all
RC Saumarez says: On a more general topic. The HADCRUT data is aliased. See:
http://judithcurry.com/2011/10/18/does-the-aliasing-beast-feed-the-uncertainty-monster/
Excellent demonstration of the effect. I had not seen that article.
Averaging is a valid means of reducing _random_ (gaussian distributed) noise but is NOT valid processing in the presense (or possible presence if you have not even thought to check) of periodic or pseudo periodic variations.
The ubiquetous practice in climate science of taking monthly averages without any attempt at anti-alias filtering has its rooting in two things:
1) ignorance of proper data processing techniques.
2) ignorance of proper data processing techniques.
3) the abritrary and spurious assumption that anything that is not due to AGW is “random” noise.
Well OK, that’s three: I forgot the second one.
Kasuha says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:21 pm
Ummmm … have you looked at the scale on Figure 12? Less than a tenth of a degree over the range of sunspot numbers, and it’s going (if anything) in the opposite direction to that claimed by the “it’s the sun, stupid” crowd.
As to your claim that “it may even be significant” in affecting the earth’s temperature, it’s not even significantly affecting just the troposphere. As I noted in the head post, the relationship is far from significant (from memory the p value is on the order of 0.3) …
w.
Leif Svalgaard says:
July 30, 2013 at 8:28 am
tallbloke says:
July 30, 2013 at 6:10 am
That’s not the ACRIM TSI, That’s the bloody PMOD modeled up nonsense.
Which is fine….
….it makes no real difference
It’s fine we’re told one dataset is being used when in fact a totally different dataset is being used? Ohhh, “it doesn’t matter”. Riiiight.
vukcevic says: “Total number of hits at my web-graphs at this moment is 199196 ; at 200k would be good time to take a break”
200k would be a good time to start documenting what you are trying to show and all your vaugely labelled graphs. That would give other the chance to check what you are putting forward and asses whether it has any merit.
The particular link you give is fine example it just says “global temperature”. It’s anyone’s guess what data you’re using.
A source for the “Danish Aurora Data” would be a plus.
You’ve been banging out this stuff for over ten years now. It’s well over due that you turn it into something reproducible and verifyable. ( IMHO )
tallbloke says:
July 30, 2013 at 9:20 am
It’s fine we’re told one dataset is being used when in fact a totally different dataset is being used? Ohhh, “it doesn’t matter”. Riiiight.
Right! As the graph would look very much the same [you couldn’t tell the difference – except ACRIM would have a bit more noise].
I’m sorry but I think that this post is complete rubbish because you have use a technique, which you don’t understand, improperly to test a hypothesis that is ameanable to straightforward analysis.
You use “periodicity transform” to look for cycles in sunspot data and then try to relate this to temperature by forming periodicty analysis of temperature records. You conclude that there is no relationship between sunspot cycles and temperature(s).
What you appear to be saying that there is no linear correlation between sunspots and temperature. In this case, why on Earth did you not use standard signal processing correlation techniques to establish this? At least people with a signal processing background might take the analysis seriously and have some confidence that it was correct.
Maybe I’m going to get slammed here, but I’m going to try anyway: since our observation point moves every day should the time series be adjusted for the difference?
Spence says: “Magnitude is the RMS of the real and imaginary components”
No it’s not. There’s no mean.
If you’re going to correct someone, it’s best to be correct.
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/poppenhaeger-hd-189733a-has-been-tidally-influenced-by-the-hot-jupiter/
Steven Mosher:
Actually, there is low frequency information in BEST too–it shows a peak around 60 years, and the amplitude is very similar to what is seem using CRUTEM3.
Leif Svalgaard says:
”Because there is no ‘enormous increase’ in energy received. There is high variability of extreme UV, but the total energy at those wavelengths is very small.
But that doesn’t take into account the varying quality of energy. An amount of UV can split O2, cause sunburn, power photosynthesis, etc. but no amount of IR can do any of those things. WUWT?
Ulric Lyons says:
July 30, 2013 at 8:22 am
Thanks again Ulric, food for thought. Ian Wilson sent me something very interesting today related. I’ll pass your obs on to him.