Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
As a result of my post on energy storage entitled Getting Energy From The Energy Store, a few people brought up the idea of replacing our current energy sources such as gas and oil with hydrogen (often written as H2, because two hydrogen atoms make up one hydrogen molecule).
You see this on the web, that we could power our civilization on hydrogen, convert all the trucks and buses to run on hydrogen, they call it shifting to a “hydrogen economy”… and why not? You can burn hydrogen just like natural gas, you can run an internal combustion engine on hydrogen, what’s not to like? Here’s a typical intro to an analysis:
A Comparison of Hydrogen and Propane Fuels.
Hydrogen and propane have long histories of being used as fuel. Both fuels can be used safely if their physical, chemical, and thermal properties are understood and if appropriate codes, standards, and guidelines are followed. Although the properties of hydrogen have been compared to those of propane and methane, these comparisons were made to facilitate appreciation of the physical and chemical differences and similarities among these fuels. It is not possible to rank these fuels according to safety because plausible accident scenarios can be formulated in which any one of the fuels can be considered the safest or the most hazardous.
So what’s wrong with this comparison, between hydrogen and other competitive fuel sources like propane and methane?
What’s wrong is that people misunderstand hydrogen. Unlike say propane or methane, hydrogen is not an energy source. There are no hydrogen mines. You can’t go out and drill somewhere into a deposit of pure hydrogen and bring it back home to burn.
And why can’t we mine or drill for hydrogen and bring it home and burn it to power our cars?
The reason we can’t mine and burn hydrogen is simple … it’s all been burnt already. The nerve of nature! I mean, people are always warning that we’ll burn up all the fossil fuels, and now we find out that nature has already gone rogue on us and burned up all the hydrogen …
Figure 1. Burnt hydrogen, showing the hydrogen and oxygen atoms.
Most of the burnt hydrogen we call “the ocean”. Another bunch of burned hydrogen we call ice and rain and rivers and lakes. But there’s no hydrogen that is available for drilling or mining—it’s all bound up in other compounds. And as a result, hydrogen is not a source of energy—it is merely a way to transport energy from Point A to Point B.
[UPDATE April 17, 2023: It’s been pointed out to me that there is one small hydrogen well in Africa, and that there is hydrogen produced naturally by reactions with water in the depth of the earth. However, as far as we know currently, it only collects in commercial quantities under very unusual conditions. Most is constantly escaping in tiny seeps. In addition, the global annual geological H2 production, not usable production but total production, is estimated at 23 Tg/year, which contains energy equal to less than 1% of the world’s annual energy usage. A possible future energy source for the globe? Seems doubtful, but it’s early days, time will tell.]
And this in turn means that the main competition to hydrogen, what we should be comparing it to, is not natural gas, nor propane as the quote above says, nor any other gas.
Instead, the main competition to hydrogen, the true comparison, is to electricity, which is our current means of transporting energy. Saying that we could “power our civilization on hydrogen” is as meaningless as saying we could “power our civilization on electricity” … neither one is a source of power, they’re just different ways to transport energy around the planet.
This is not to say that hydrogen is not useful, merely to clarify what it is useful for—transporting energy from one place to another. It is not a source of energy, it is a way to move energy. This distinction is very important because it lets us make the proper comparison, which is not comparing hydrogen to propane as they did above, but comparing hydrogen to its real competition—electricity.
Now, compared to electricity as a means of transporting energy, hydrogen suffers from a number of disadvantages.
The first disadvantage results from what I modestly call “Willis’s Rule Of Small Stuff”, which states:
It is far easier to move electrons than to move molecules.
This rule has ramifications in a number of fields, particularly the transportation of energy. For example, consider the difference between moving a large amount of energy on a constant basis over say a hundred miles (160 km) by the two competing transportation methods, electricity and hydrogen.
For electricity, you just have to move electrons. So you string a pair of copper wires up on poles from Point A to Point B, and … well … that’s about it. You hook one end to a generator of electricity, and a charge appears at the other end of the wires. There’s not much leakage, not many problems of any kind. The system is robust and relatively safe, and able to withstand storms and temperature extremes.
Now, consider moving the same amount of energy as hydrogen. For that, you have to move molecules. First off, you need a pipeline. Now, we’re all familiar with pipelines for moving energy. The trans-Alaska pipeline is a fine example. Pump oil in at one end, add some pumping stations along the route to keep it moving, and oil pours out the other end.
Hydrogen, though, is a very difficult beast to pump through a pipeline. To start with, hydrogen has very, very low energy density. So you have to pump a huge amount of it, about 4,000 times the volume of gasoline or oil for the same energy.
Next, hydrogen is incredibly sneaky. Do you know how a rubber balloon filled with helium gradually loses its helium over time? The helium is small enough to go through holes in the rubber balloon, tiny holes that are too small for air to pass through. Well, hydrogen is even worse. It can escape right around a piston in a pump, and run happily out through the pipe threads in any pipeline connectors. It requires special gas-tight connections from end to end of the delivery chain. You can’t just stick the hydrogen pump nozzle into your gas tank like you can with gasoline or diesel. So moving the molecules of hydrogen turns out to be a much, much harder problem than moving the electrons with electricity.
The second disadvantage of hydrogen as a means of transporting energy is the low energy density mentioned above. In general, the energy content of fuels varies with their density. So for example, diesel has more energy per liter than gasoline, which is lighter. And alcohol is even less dense, so it contains less energy per liter than either gas or diesel.
Now, consider hydrogen gas. Figure 2 shows a chart comparing various materials regarding energy density in two different measures—megajoules per liter (MJ/L), and megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg).
Figure 2. Energy density of selected materials. Vertical scale is in megajoules per litre, and the horizontal scale is in megajoules per kilogram. Hydrogen is at the lower right. Click to embiggen. SOURCE
This leads to an oddity. Hydrogen gas has a huge amount of energy per kilogram … but almost no energy per liter. Gasoline holds about 35 megajoules per liter (MJ/L). But even compressed at 700 bar (about 10,000 psi) hydrogen has only about 5 megajoules per liter. That means that you have to move a lot of hydrogen, or pack a lot of it into a car or truck fuel tank, to have enough energy for practical purposes.
Now folks are always claiming that this problem will be solved by adsorbing the hydrogen onto the surface of an as-yet-unknown sponge-like substance from which it can be recovered as hydrogen gas by heating the substrate. But that can’t possibly be as energy-dense as liquid hydrogen, and liquid hydrogen has only a measly ten megajoules per liter. So adsorbing it will not solve the problem.
Nor will liquefying it, seeing as how you have to keep liquid hydrogen at about 240 degrees C below zero (-405°F) … not practical.
And that means that if someone wants to store much energy, say at a hydrogen fueling station, well, they’ll need a whole lot of high-pressure tanks with special fittings, and they’ll need to be about six times as large as the corresponding gasoline tanks to contain the same amount of energy. Or if they are storing the hydrogen adsorbed onto the surface of some as-yet-undiscovered material, they won’t need to be high pressure, but they’ll need to be even bigger.
The third disadvantage of hydrogen as a transportation medium is safety. Yes, electricity is dangerous, of course. But electricity isn’t flammable, and hydrogen is extremely flammable. Hydrogen has an unusual quality. Most fuels only burn when there is a certain ratio of fuel to oxygen. But hydrogen will burn whether it’s a little hydrogen mixed with a lot of air, or a lot of hydrogen mixed with a little air. Not only that, but the hydrogen flame is colorless, smokeless, and invisible in sunlight … a very bad safety combination.
The fourth disadvantage of hydrogen is something called “hydrogen embrittlement”. Here’s a crazy fact. Hydrogen molecules are so small that they can leak out through solid steel. It can either react with steel, or it can leak right through the steel. But that minuscule slow leakage is not the real problem. The real issue is that hydrogen penetrating into and through the metal lattice weakens the steel, fatigues the metal, and decreases fracture resistance. In the long run, it can embrittle solid steel to the point where it cracks all the way through after only a slight impact.
The final disadvantage of hydrogen as a transportation medium is that after using hydrogen to transport energy from A to B, it is hard to convert the hydrogen back into other useful forms of energy. For example, electricity can be used to drive a crankshaft, heat a cup of tea, shoot a railgun projectile at supersonic speeds, energize a magnet, wash my clothes, power a laser, propel a train via linear induction, light up a football stadium, split water into hydrogen and oxygen, charge my computer’s battery, or to drive a chemical reaction against an energy gradient.
Out of all of those uses, hydrogen can drive a crankshaft with very low efficiency compared to electricity, and it can heat a cup of tea … yes, you can use hydrogen in a fuel cell to convert it back to electricity, but that kinda defeats the purpose.
I mean, isn’t it rather goofy to use electricity to create hydrogen, transport the hydrogen, and then convert it back to electricity??? What’s wrong with this picture? Why not just use the electricity directly?
All of this taken together, of course, is the reason that our civilization did not adopt the use of hydrogen as an energy transportation medium, and we settled on electricity instead … because, well, it’s kind of a no-brainer. For just about any purpose you can name, including transporting energy around for powering cars and trucks, hydrogen is well down on my list of good candidates.
Now, if I can just find out who burned up all the hydrogen and didn’t save it for the grandkids like Death Train Jim Hansen advised us to do …
w.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.


Cheap, specious shot, Mr. Watt. I’m sure you know quite well that the “Hydrogen Economy” as described does not rely on “Pumping it out of the ground” as you so glibly put it, nor is it intended to rely on coal or other fossil fuel-based power plants. Perhaps a reminder is in order:
http://harvardmagazine.com/2004/01/the-hydrogen-powered-fut.html
REPLY: perhaps you should look at who the author is, Willis Eschenbach, and also learn to spell my name correctly before you call “cheap shots” – Anthony
REPLY: I’ve replied to Mr. Allen below … -w.
Really well explained. I learnt a lot from this well written posting. Thank you Willis
Maybe you should check who the author of this blog article is?
jdallen on July 1, 2013 at 1:35
“Hydrogen Economy” as described does not rely on “Pumping it out of the ground” …
———————-
Upon what does the hydrogen economy rely, since there isn’t any hydrogen lying around,
@ur momisugly jdallen
Your link has a rather large amount of “could” “possible” and “proposed” scattered through it.
I’m not sure I’d want to be driving a light weight vehicle with a 10,000 psi pressurised tank in it anywhere. More so if it contained liquid hydrogen.
Sorry, I’ll stay with the facts and figures Willis (Not Mr. Watt as you assumed) has shown. At least I can check and verify what Willis has written, your article is heavy on conjecture, light on verifiable facts.
But, thanks for posting, there are some good pieces of alternative life style adaptions to pick out, but hydrogen fuel isn’t one of them
Willis: Another disadvantage of using H2, is destruction of stratopheric ozone, and subsequent global COOLING. And of course, ozone holes at both poles. Warwick (2004) disputes this.
Tromp (et al 2003) assumed 10% leakage. Warwick assumed 1%. Both estimates I find low. In distilling and transporting liquid N2, the loss rates are near to 10% PER DAY. In warm environments, its 25% per day. As you say, H2 is another beast again.
All below are behind pay walls, I am afraid. Google “Tromp et al. (2003) ozone”
Scholarly articles for Trompe et al. (2003) ozone
Potential environmental impact of a hydrogen economy … – Tromp – Cited by 222
Sensitivity of Arctic ozone loss to stratospheric H2O – Feck – Cited by 22
Impact of a hydrogen economy on the stratosphere and … – Warwick – Cited by 73
jdallen
Cheap, specious shot, Mr. Watt….
The big idea in jdallen’s article is to use a combination of wind power and unobtainium to produce the trickle of energy required to heat the über expensively insulated homes of millionaires in their secret mountain lairs, while they stroke white haired cats and ponder the miserable fate of the shivering cold poor people stuck outside their fortified compound.
I tell you what – I’ll give the hydrogen a go, if someone pays for my super insulated tropical vivarium where I can grow bananas in Colorado.
Great read, thanks Willis! I agree with Warren in New Zealand, I would not relish the prospect of having a tank (Albeit they are very safe these days, but still.) with highly compressed, liquefied, hydrogen in the back of my car or in any other vehicle for that matter. There is a reason why tanks, gas bottles, boilers and the like are pressure tested with water and not air (Or any other gas).
The idea of a “hydrogen economy” seems to be founded on a complete denial of the laws of thermodynamics. You use electricity to electrolyse water and throw away the oxygen then all you can do is to burn the hydrogen to generate electricity. Hmmm. .. If you believe that then here in this suitcase i have a small perpetual motion machine i will see you for several millions!
A few weeks ago, a truck loaded with compressed hydrogen had an heavy accident here where several of the “cigar”-formed tanks did start to burn. The fire brigade continuously cooled the truck and tanks from a distance and evacuated the neighbourhood for some 500 meters, blocking the highway for the same distance. It did take several days before the tanks were burned out and the truck and tanks could be removed.
I know of cars using LPG, where the tanks have internal stop valves in case of a car accident, but it seems not that easy to perform for hydrogen, which is a quite problematic gas creeping through almost all materials (including steel at high temperature!).
Not the best energy bearer for transport, even not into the far future…
In my former work (chlorine factory), hydrogen was a byproduct of the salt electrolyses. That was sold via a hydrogen network to nearby works where it was used to hydrogenate vegetable oils (for margarine/fats) and desulphurising diesel/heating oil. Nowadays they are working on fuel cells, so that they can use the hydrogen directly back for the electrolyses. Seems the best ways to use hydrogen: as fast as possible after generation, without storage or much transport.
Hydrogen economy… The captain of the Hindenburg is calling and he’s on fire over this…
Jdallen, Whoever wrote that article is NOT an engineer. I am an engineer and Willis has written an excellent explanation on energy transport for laymen. What part of it did you not understand?
I learned about hydrogen while working for Air Liquide. I wish it was the perfect energy source.
jdallen on July 1, 2013 at 1:35 am
Cheap, specious shot, Mr. Watt. I’m sure you know quite well that the “Hydrogen Economy” as described does not rely on “Pumping it out of the ground” as you so glibly put it, nor is it intended to rely on coal or other fossil fuel-based power plants. Perhaps a reminder is in order:http://harvardmagazine.com/2004/01/the-hydrogen-powered-fut.html
Cute, innit? This should be a lightbulb moment for folk like Jd, the facts are so clearly explained by Willis, but, instead we get the above…..
jdallen, that house sounds great. But how much does it cost? Right now “greening up” a house like that is something only millionaires can afford. Plus, how would that work in an entire city the size of, let’s take a small one, Vienna? The fuel cell cars? Nice idea. It’s now almost 10 years after this article. Where are they? Nowhere. I’ve never seen even one of them. I’d think that, after almost a decade, there would be more of those.
Robert Westfall says:
July 1, 2013 at 2:26 am
Jdallen, Whoever wrote that article is NOT an engineer. I am an engineer and Willis has written an excellent explanation on energy transport for laymen. What part of it did you not understand?
…………………….
I think the problem was with the parts he didn’t WANT to understand.
Willis dangles the hook into the water… almost immediately, a fish bites.
jdallen, I’m not sure what’s wrong with your ability to read, but clearly something is. The whole point of the exercise is that there is no natural source of pure hydrogen that we can easily use.
There are 3 major problems with using hydrogen:
1. The amount of energy required to liberate hydrogen from water or whatever other source we need is extremely large.
2. Storage and transportation is a bigger problem than proponents seem to realize.
3. There isn’t enough energy in the stored or transported hydrogen to provide a return on the effort.
However, there is a plus side to this. Hydrogen arranges itself as molecules of H2 – two atoms bonded together. By simply adding a single carbon atom to 4 hydrogen atoms we get a far more stable gas, CH4, with a larger molecular size that greatly reduces the storage and transportation problems. It has a narrower range of air/fuel ratios that it can burn at. The only byproducts of burning this fuel would be harmless CO2 and H2O.
The absolute BEST part of all of this is that we can, in fact, pump this stabilized version of hydrogen out of the ground, with massive known deposits and the potential for there to be several TIMES more in recoverable form.
Attentive readers will recognize that I am talking about Natural Gas.
Given that you have surplus energy that you cannot store or use immediately – think wind power when the wind is blowing and demand is down, or sunlight during midday when demand is lowest – then using the surplus electricity to do something that can store energy is reasonable. Pumped storage for hydroelectric plants has been a favourite in the past. However, using it in electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen is reasonable. You can store the hydrogen, and then use it later as a fuel to provide electricity when demand is high.
As Mr Eschenbach demonstrates, hydrogen is inconvenient, to say the least, to transport, either as a high pressure gas or as a cold liquid, in bulk or in car sized quantities. So transport is out. But remember the massive gas holders at the power stations that turned coal into coke and coal gas? What we in the UK called gasometers? At low pressure storage, losses would be minimal. As the volume contained in the holder increases by the cube of a linear dimension, the surface area through which leaks would occur only increases by the square. Pressure would only be sufficient to hold up the roof and walls – remember the US pavilion at Expo 70 in Osaka held up by a slight increase in the internal air pressure (rather more for an aluminium structure than canvas, but not much surely?).
The big problem with wind and sunlight as “renewable energy” power sources has always been that the energy is not always available when you want it, or that there is more than you need. Electrolysis plus on site storage of the hydrogen and use of it as fuel when demand is high is, at least, plausible, and could, again perhaps, greatly improve the efficiency of the “renewable energy” source..
Like others, I find the Harvard Magazine article too replete with ‘could’ and ‘would’ – rather reminiscent of Mr Daniken’s use of ‘could’ and ‘would’ to prove that aliens did something or other in the past. And is Nuclear Power really so expensive compared with other energy sources? Twice, perhaps, but 31 times??? Why then are new nuclear power stations on the draawing boards and being built?
Hydrogen fuel cells have been developed at Argonne for many years; it just occurred to me now that being a DOE lab, their vision of the future included fast breeder reactors in every small town or a city block, and they had to find a way to utilise all that hydrogen that the existing reactors simply vent into the atmosphere.
A better comparison that could hit three birds with one stone is to use carbon dioxide as fuel. You could get methanol from the reaction of carbon dioxide and hydrogen or formaldehyde with the proper catalyst. Although your energy balance would show very high energy inputs than the energy in the output– AGW policy makers dont care. The very high energy inputs could be supplied by renewables such as solar, wind, etc. It is a winning proposition all around. The renewable energy sector makes money, you get credit for reduction of carbon dioxide, and you get a good liquid fuel. You have three beneficiary sectors of the economy not to mention the deeper ties that will result with China as more rare earths metals are needed for the renewable energy source. Yes it is a wastes of money, but you need some money wasting initiatives to prevent an economic recession.
@jdallen – “Cheap, specious shot!” this is more easilly applied to your comment than the interesting and considered article you want to attack.
Willis uses very basic science (that even I could understand) to explain why hydrogen is not an available energy source that can be mined and why it is difficult to use for moving large amounts of energy from place A to place B. It might be useful as an temporary onsite energy storage system in places where there is lots of space, such as close to a windfarm.
Favourite hydrogen fact.
If you release 1 gram of hydrogen at any point on the earth…it will be equally distributed through the entire earth’s atmosphere within 24 hours.
This is due to the it’s immense kinetic energy and small size of its atoms.
Dudley Horscroft
Given that you have surplus energy that you cannot store or use immediately – think wind power when the wind is blowing and demand is down, or sunlight during midday when demand is lowest – then using the surplus electricity to do something that can store energy is reasonable. Pumped storage for hydroelectric plants has been a favourite in the past. However, using it in electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen is reasonable. You can store the hydrogen, and then use it later as a fuel to provide electricity when demand is high.
Sadly this is not a viable proposition. The reason is renewables are already hideously expensive – so adding inefficient electrolysis, lossy hydrogen storage, and inefficient conversion back into electricity makes the entire business ludicrously unaffordable.
Like Willis said in another article http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/29/getting-energy-from-the-energy-store/ , energy storage is a wicked problem – in a hundred years, there have been no major breakthroughs or advances.
Just a crazy idea. Let’s bind that hydrogen to carbon atoms. We’ll call it err… hydro-carbon.
To: jdallen,
Perhaps some day you will gain the consciousness to realize that you are the one who has taken the cheap, specious shot…