I don’t normally do mid week open threads, but I’ve not found much of interest to write about tonight, and story submissions have been a dry hole lately.
Either they are too short (like one line descriptions with a URL) or too long (I just rejected two pending manuscripts in MS-word that were formatting nightmares).
Help me out here folks. Submit a story here.
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Not much happening…
well lots pending with Lewandowsky and Cook etc.. ‘Moon Hoax’ paper (LOG12) and ‘Recursive Fury’ paper… am getting mildly irritated with th eofficial ‘fob off’, so as Lewandowsky sought press publicity, it seems only fair to respond in kind with the criticisms of his work.
I’m inclined towards publishing all my correspondence with UWA and the journals..
I am writing a blog post and am looking for good information about exectly how CO2 stores energy. What goes on in the molecule when hit by long wave radiation. Why is not as much affected by short wave? Why are some molecules able to store heat while others are not?
Have these things been established once and for all, if so when and by who, and are there any landmark enlightening papers on this?
Would appreciate any input on these matters.
bathes,
CO2 does not ‘store energy’. It simply delays the transmisssion of energy, like an insulating blanket.
There is a difference, although it may not be apparent at first…
henry@bathes
here is some tutorial matter
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2011/08/11/the-greenhouse-effect-and-the-principle-of-re-radiation-11-Aug-2011/
HenryP
that is a very interesting post
bathes says:
May 8, 2013 at 3:28 am
The basics are extremely well understood, the details are (IMHO) not so well.
Energy from the IR photon causes the atoms in CO2 to vibrate – think weights connected by springs. Soon thereafter the molecule either emits a new photon or transfers kinetic energy to another atmospheric molecule in a collision, there by raising the temperature of both as the bounce away.
N2 and O2, being diatomic, have different energy states and hence are affected by different wavelengths. Ar, being monatomic, doesn’t have anything to vibrate.
WUWT is not a search engine. However, I don’t know of any page that describes CO2 interactions at all levels and temperatures in the atmosphere. It will take months for someone to write a good one starting from no understanding of the processes involved.
Willis Eschenbach says:
May 8, 2013 at 2:04 am
Here are two:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/category/climategate/
http://home.comcast.net/~ewerme/wuwt/categories.html
I could make a good case for not using the second….
There’s also a Climategate 3.0 category, but I assume not relevant.
Oops – that second URL should be http://home.comcast.net/~ewerme/wuwt/cat_climategate.html
While perhaps only indicative of how cold a winter Alaska has had, the Tanana River is poised for the lastest breakup this century and among the latest in the history of the Nenana Ice Classic which has been reported upon here before. The last update on ice conditions for the Classic came out yesterday where they reported that the Nenana River is showing no signs of breakup as yet which apparently precedes the breakup of the Tanana River by 7-10 days. http://www.nenanaakiceclassic.com/ However, the temperatures are forecast to rise ultimately into the 70s over the next several days so my complete unscientific guess for the Tanana River to break loose is 7:05pm May 16th.
I am looking for some detail about the UK case where Gore’s Inconvenient Truth was taken to court. What I need most is a copy of the “booklet” that apparently must be reviewed if the movie is shown at schools. Is this material on-line? Thanks
henry@Martin
Thanks!
which one did you mean there?
(I had two posts up)
Thanks Ric
Isn’t it about time for a Arctic sea ice article. Maybe I missed it. Are we doing predictions this year?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/may/02/white-house-arctic-ice-death-spiral?
this is interesting, i havent seen it mentioned anywhere else
“story submissions have been a dry hole lately”
This observation appears important.
Ricahrd M: What arctic ice? It is all gone. Replaced by kayak rental companies.
Regarding Agenda 21; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1UF3Bpqzog
‘And now for something completely different’ – been watching this lately and it has been very enjoyable and informative. My new hero’s Wallace.
http://www.sho.com/sho/oliver-stones-untold-history-of-the-united-states/home
One of the biggest issues there is for trying to control climate is sea level rise. It is said that coastal areas are in danger of being inundated with rising seas unless something is done. A big concern regarding this issue is the truthfulness of the data portrayed by the various scientific outlets. For example, what’s been going on at Colorado University’s Sea Level Research Group over the years:
If you query the Internet Archive WaybackMachine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040215105250/http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
CU’s 2004 Release #1 shows the rate of sea level rise (slope) to the end of 2003 as 2.8 mm/yr
Today, The data
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/files/2013_rel3/sl_ns_global.txt
from CU’s 2013 Release #3
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
shows that the rate of sea level rise (Slope) to the end of 2003 is 3.5 mm/yr
Here’s what that looks like
http://i43.tinypic.com/hx7iux.jpg
That’s a jump of 0.7 mm/yr. But we know that the rate of sea level rise over the last 20 years is not accelerating as stated by this CU presentation:
“Why has an acceleration of sea level rise not been observed during the altimeter era?”
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/documents/OSTST/2011/oral/02_Thursday/Splinter%203%20SCI/04%20Nerem%20ostst_2011_nerem.pdf
That presentation is a few years old now, but an analysis of the data
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/files/2013_rel3/sl_ns_global.txt
still shows it to be true.
When asked about these events, Colorado University responded:
“The sea level time series release from 2004 is over eight years old, and in that time many parts of the TOPEX and Jason-1 processing have been updated to reflect instrument and ancillary data improvements. Without recreating each processing change over the last eight years, I cannot point to any specific update that is the main cause of the differences between the 2004 and the current release. But a partial list of the more influential updates include:
– updated orbits
– updated radiometer corrections
– updated tide models
– updated sea state bias models
– updated dynamic atmosphere
A review of the release notes
(http://sealevel.colorado.edu/content/release-notes)
shows how we continually apply what the altimeter science community considers to be the most up-to-date set of processing parameters. In fact, the Jason-2 data is currently being re-released and updated to the GDR-D standard, and this will most likely affect the altimeter time series due to these improvements.”
Well, what the altimeter science community considers as up-to-date adds up to an increase of 0.7 mm/yr over the last decade.
HenryP sez: “I feel a bit like the Joseph of the bible. He was able to correctly predict 7 years of abundance and 7 years of famine, probably by studying the flooding of the Nile (from his prison).”
Joseph would have had 13 years to observe flooding cycles of the Nile. Unlikely.
Gen 41:46 says Joseph was 30 years old when Pharoah was so pleased with Joseph’s interpretation of Pharoah’s dream, that Joseph was apppointed as some sort of lieutenant governor over Egypt.
Gen 37:2 says that Joseph was 17 when his brothers became jealous enough of him that they faked his death. It is not clear how rapidly his brothers abandoned Joseph, leading to his being taken down to Egypt. It could have been quickly, leading Joseph to end up in Egypt at the earliest at the age of 17. It could have been a year or mor elater, though. But 17 at the earliest.
Gen 37: 1 notes that Joseph was living in Canaan at that time. It would be far-fetched to think that Joseph, a young man, was paying attention to Nile levels for many years, if at all, before he ended up in Egypt. Once in Egypt, however, everyone would pay attention to the annual lower Nile floods, and the extent of this flooding. It is possible that Egypt’s agricltural seasonality would have had an impact on international trade, which would definitely include Canaan.
Assuming Joseph began paying attention to Nile flood levels at the age of 17, he had 13 years to observe up to the point of being asked to interpret the seven-cows dream of Pharoah.
It seems quite unlikely that Joseph discerned a cyclical 7-year pattern in seasonal flood extent from observing one and a half cycles.
Biblically, the handful of dream interpretations are accredited to a God-given talent, similar to the gift of prophecy. People may or may not believe God can do this, but the explanation of Joseph discerning a weather cycle does not seem a likely explanation, due to the limited time span.
Excellent artiicel on Dr Roy Spencer – pass it on
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/is_roy_spencer_the_worlds_most_important_scientist.html
@ur momisugly stacase says:
May 8, 2013 at 6:46 am
Hallelujah! This is the first time – although I might have missed it obviously – that I have seen the issue of the legitimacy of this outfit raised. There were lifted eyebrows at the “adjustment” described below, but that’s all.
Is this bogus?
100% CERTAINLY.
Why? Because these people have blatantly REDEFINED what sea level is by “adjusting” it for supposed changes in the land.
That is, “sea level” is according to them no longer “level of the sea against the land” it has become “the level of the sea against the land if what we claim has occurred hadn’t occurred”.
“Sea level” is not sea volume, not sea area, not sea depth, not sea anything else. It is not a “technical” term to be “adjusted” in the light of new “knowledge”.
It is SEA LEVEL.
If I’ve somehow got this commonplace for children for time immemorial terribly wrong would someone please put me out of my misery.
It has been incomprehensible to me that they could even dare to do this and THEN that it is simply allowed to stand.
The next “adjustment” will be to the effect that “sea level” has risen 10 metres and that everyone in NY is in fact drowned. Consultant: Hansen.
This is the single most obvious and brazen fraud in the whole cesspool.
@dbstealey, HenryP, Ric, thanks for input.
Henry: Thanks. Interesting to see the radiation budgets of each gas. Do you have any info on the mechanism by which each molecule reacts to certain wavelengths? Is there some type of resonance? And the mirroring effect as you write in your post – why does it vary between different gas molecules?
Ric: So more complex molecules will store more energy having “more springs and weights” or are there other factors involved as well?
It is probably tempting tp tell me to just google it, but I have been looking around and seen some different explanations and gotten a little confused. It is hard to know where to find reliable information in this area. Don’t have much trust in Wikipedia when it comes to disputed issues.
What is your recommended story/thread length?
How do recommend “testing” the format (for form, fit, and function) and the data or equations that we (me) would be discussing?
Yes, I have several “developed” ideas that would likely be interesting to you – to your readers – but I am by absolutely no means a html-savy writer nor column-and-table formatter nor graphics artist at presenting equations and graphs.
(Now – in a blatant request for help – would anyone care to assist a non-typist? )
Next time a Warmist accuses you of being funded by fossil fuel industry point out to them that we are also partly green funded. 😉 Did I mention the BBC Pension funds invested partly in oil and tobacco companies? I’ll leave that for another day.
Recent articles on green groups investing in fossil fuel companies.
http://www.thenation.com/article/174143/time-big-green-go-fossil-free
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/03/giants-green-world-profit-planets-destruction
http://www.thenation.com/article/174149/why-arent-environmental-groups-divesting-energy-companies