UPDATE: I’ve answered questions from commenters below in the FAQs, and added additional diagrams – Anthony
Much to the chagrin of people who are sure I’m evil, in the pocket of big oil, and highly carbon positive, I’m actually an independent and pretty energy efficient guy, and I challenge any of my detractors to show their solar and energy efficiency projects. Put your money where your mouthpiece is, I say. For example, do loud climate campaigners Joe Romm and Bill McKibben have solar power on their homes? Do Jim Hansen and Michael Mann have solar power while telling us we all must cut back our energy usage linked to fossil fuels? Inquiring minds want to know.
Readers may recall last summer that I put up my third solar power project, my first being on my older home, then a large 125KW solar project I started as Trustee for the Chico Unified School District. My third project is doing quite well, and a number of readers have asked for an update on my original article as they are considering doing what I have done. This being the day of the electricity denying “Earth Hour”, I thought it would be a good day to write about how I’m beating my electric bill. You see, while many tout the supposed CO2 saving properties of solar panels, my impetus is entirely different: I’m hedging against California’s exorbitant green-driven utility rates.
For example, see below from my bill last year when temperatures went up in the summer, and tell me if where you live you come anywhere close to paying what I do.
Above: my actual rate and costs from last summer June-July 2012.
Thanks to PG&E’s new smart-meter system, they can now gouge me more efficiently and on schedule, when I need electricity to keep cool the most. I doubt there’s anyone reading this entry that pays 93 cents per kilowatt-hour to keep their home cool in summer.
I (along with millions of others in California) pay what I call a “location tax” due to my living in California’s Sacramento Valley, where summer temperatures regularly hit and exceed 100F. The majority of California’s population, living along the coast, don’t see temperatures anywhere near that, and thus don’t have similar air conditioning issues.
And, with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) running amok with cap-and-trade regulation frenzy, with refusal of coal and nuclear energy, relying on green wind power mostly for the future, combined with a looming national Carbon Tax, finding a way to generate your own electricity is in my opinion, the best hedge against future cost increases. Climate concerns don’t even rate with me on this issue, I’m thinking more about my financial future and the health and comfort of my family, and that’s why I got a solar system – it’s a hedge against the green energy and climate madness.
Here’s how I beat the green menace and PG&E.
Remember back in December when climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann was so out of touch that he couldn’t even conceive that I could do calendars for myself (I sent him a free one), but instead it must have been some nefariously funded production? Well, he probably can’t conceive of how I put up my own solar system either, since like the Josh Calendars, I did it using COSTCO and some sweat equity.
Here’s a few FAQs.
1. Did “big oil” or some other entity pay you to do this?
No.
Did you use government grants to do this? No. Did you get money from the WUWT tip jar or calendar sales to do this? No.
So how did you pay for this? Simple. I took out a low-interest loan against my savings account the contents of which was then converted to a certificate of deposit spanning five years. I’ll have the solar system paid for in five years, and the CD will be free at that time. Then I’ll have a solar system and my savings principal intact plus I’ll get interest on the certificate of deposit. Basically I’m trading my PG&E electric bill for a financing bill for five years.
How much did it cost? About $25,000 and change, fully installed, plus shipping and tax on the hardware portion.
2. Why didn’t you get one of those “no money down” solar systems being advertised today?
I’m borrowing and adapting a popular credit card slogan to best explain this: “ownership has its advantages”. I looked into several of these other plans, and when I penciled out the entire scheme, it didn’t make much financial sense, and at the end of the lease, I either had to buy the system at “fair market value” (to be determined) or they come and remove the system. And given the number of solar company bankruptcy/failures out there (think Solyndra), I was concerned that I’d be straddled with a system that was orphaned due to the company going out of business and the debt purchased by some holding company, who could then argue that previous contracts were “null and void” due to such bankruptcy and “oh, by the way here’s your new payment schedule”. When you want to control your own destiny, relying on others is not a safe bet.
3. Grid-tied or battery storage?
It is a grid-tied system. Battery storage systems really don’t make any sense for a city dweller, as they are primarily off-the-grid type applications where you need independent power 24/7. This was primarily a financial consideration, not a power security one.
4. Did you get any government rebates?
No, there was a PG&E rebate program, which put about $1200 (based on my system size) back in my pocket, but as I said earlier, I got no government money related to this. There will be some small tax advantages for me.
5. Does it make any noise or heat?
No, the inverters are essentially silent, except for one small fan. The inverters do make some waste heat, but they are mounted outside, and not an issue. The solar panels actually help keep the house a bit cooler, as they absorb sunlight for a good portion of the roof space, which otherwise would have gone to heating the attic.
6. Has it saved you money?
Yes, absolutely. More details follow.
7. How does your power bill work now?
We get a quarterly summary showing our electric use/surplus, and a year-end “true up” bill to balance any difference. We still have to pay for natural gas usage separately.
8. How big is it? How much power?
36 panels, of 250watts each, for a maximum DC output of 9000 watts (9KW). Of course that’s under optimal sun angle and atmospheric conditions, and with DC to AC power conversion loss, the real max is closer to 6500 watts of AC power. Typical days run anywhere from 4500-5500 KW at peak sun. I opted for the better monocrystalline (blue color) panels rather than the polymorphous (brownish) solar panels as they are more efficient and longer lasting.
9. (added) How soon do you expect to be able to pay back your investment?
If I assume a linear payback rate, it would be about 12 years. However, I think it will be closer to 9 years based on my estimates of what the future holds. First, a look at recent rates by state:
Source: http://www.pacificpower.net/about/rr/rpc.html
Now, look at the forecast for residential electricity prices. It isn’t linear.
Source: US Department of Energy
10. (added) What is your cost of capital?
The way my loan is setup, guaranteed against a certificate of deposit earning interest, the APR works out to 0.8%. Over 5 years, that works out to be $511.66 for the cost of the loan.
11. (added) How does the mounting system affect your roof integrity? Will you get leaks?
The installation was guaranteed to be leak free, and after this winter rains, I can testify to that. The way the roof mount works, the screws used to secure the rack support post are put under a metal “flashing” cone, and screwed in with a sealant applied to the screw threads. This guarantees that there’s no rain penetration because the flashing not only prevents the screws from getting rain in the first place, the flashing acts just like another shingle. Here’s a diagram I prepared showing how it works:
See a descriptive animation here: http://www.unirac.com/video/animations/solarmount-i/index.html
12. Why didn’t you go with larger panels (like the 300 watt panels of the same size).
Because the volume pricing COSTCO had arranged (at that time) did not offer that size. Adding my 2% COSTCO rebate combined with the lower overall cost made the 250watt panels a no-brainer.
Specs on the panels are here: 
GRAPE SOLAR 250W MONO PDF
13. How was the system shipped?
It arrived by truck as two large pallets, plus a third long package of rails. I stored these in my garage, unpacked them, and hauled the shipping materials to my office dumpster.
14. What about possible hail damage?
The rated impact resistance: hail diameter of 28mm (1.1″) with speed of 86km/h. (53mph)
These panels are really tough. My installer says you can drop them from the roof onto the concrete and they’ll survive just fine (he’s done it by accident more than once). here is a video and a news item that suggests the panels are tougher than the roofing.
News item:
Surprisingly little damage to rooftop solar panels
The epic hailstorm did surprisingly little damage to the tens of thousands of pricey solar-power arrays built on metro Phoenix rooftops in recent years.
http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20110930biz-hailstorm1002solar.html
======================
Purchasing the system
As I mentioned, I used COSTCO to buy the entire hardware system. They resell from a company in Oregon called “Grape Solar“. Here’s their largest package:
I actually wanted more power than that, so I contacted Grape Solar directly, described my needs, showed my house roof plan and power bills, and they came up with a custom design for me at no charge. Here’s the line item summary of what I bought:
I did a lot of research on this system, and found it was well designed and likely to live up to its claims, 8 months in, so far so good.
NOTE: Detailed instructions on how to order your own system from COSTCO follow at the end of this article.
Here’s links to manuals (PDF) on the items above:
- Grid-tied Solar System Layout Example
- Solar System Install Guide
- Solar Panel Specification Sheet
- PV Power Inverter Manual
- Solar System Quickstart Guide
I particularly like the Kaco Blue Planet DC to AC PV inverters, which are compact, quiet, efficient, and good-looking to boot. Here they are (5000 watt and 3500 watt models) on the side of my home with the PG&E SmartMeter. DC power comes in at the conduit from the solar panels at top right, AC power exits at bottom left in the curved conduit to junction box to tie into my AC mains breaker box.
=======================
Installing the solar system
While I “could” have done the entire installation myself, having mad electric and electronic skills, I opted to have someone experienced in this particular technology do it for me. The Grape Solar company contact gave me a list of certified installers in the area, and I called each of them up and asked them questions. The guy who held up under my intense questioning (A fellow in Redding named Baran Galocy) got the job. For some of the installers, I knew more than they did, never a good sign. Choose wisely.
Plus, this fellow was willing to work with me to trade some sweat equity for a lower installation cost. Since a good portion of time is spent in transport, unpacking, staging, and disposal of packaging, I opted to perform those tasks in sync with his job schedule to save labor time and thus money. Check with an installer you might choose to see if they will do the same for you.
Permits, of course are required. The first step was getting a city work permit, so that the city could get their “cut”. I say this because their inspection was total BS, the inspector never opened a panel box or climbed on the roof to inspect panels. He was most interested in whether mandated warning labels like this below (to protect the stupid) were properly applied. Your mileage in your city may vary. Fortunately the installer handled getting these, keeping my blood pressure down.
The next step was to put up the UNIRAC mounting system on the roof:
This took about three partial work days to complete, since only mad dogs and Englishmen work on rooftops in the midday summer sun. Here it is completed:
The next step was placing and securing panels, while doing base panel wiring:
Note the ladder contraption at the right. This is carpet remnants secured to ladder and rooftop. Shown in red to the left of the ladder is a nylon rope hawser with clips I designed that allows the man on top to pull up the panels while I push from below. This saves your back, plus virtually eliminates the possibility of dropping them and/or an injurious fall. The carpet prevents the panels from being scratched or damaged while they are pulled up.
This paneling operation took about two partial work days to complete.
Finally, the last step was to hang the inverters on the outside wall and to finish all the interconnect wiring. which took about another day.
Waiting for the city building inspector and for PG&E to “approve” the installation for grid connect took far longer than the actual installation. Then I discovered that PG&E changed one of their forms in the middle of the process, and we had to re-do the paperwork. While the install was competed in August, we didn’t actually get the final connect and switchover to net metering until December. Ain’t bureaucracy grand? I was just unlucky, you can figure about 2-4 weeks in most cases.
==========================
Results!
Here is a photo of my SmartMeter running today at about 940AM:
The 5.01 kW reading is my instantaneous generation, note at the right side it says “Received”. If I am using more power than I generate (or it is nighttime) that will switch to say “Delivered”. So now as I’m writing this, I’m 5kW net positive at my home.
At the top, in the big numbers is the summation of Kilowatt-hours over the lifetime of the meter. When the meter is delivered, it is set to read 00000. If I am using more electricity than I generate, it will show a net positive value (i.e 00234) if I have generated more electricity than I used, it will go backwards from 99999 and as this shows I’m at 99340, leaving a surplus of 660 Kilowatt-hours since the system was switched over in December. most of December and January was fairly overcast here, so my biggest gains have been recent, as shown in my SmartMeter summary online (highlighted in Yellow), I’ve now surpassed energy-efficient homes in my area:
My usage has gone negative:
Nice to see the money flowing to me too, here’s my quarterly bill:
Unfortunately, I still have to pay all those taxes and fees amounting to $4.66, even though I’m a net generator rather than a consumer, but I’ll take the deal.
================
How this works
The strategy is simple, generate/save as much electricity as you can during non-summer months, bank it (as shown on the meter) and then draw against that bank of generated energy during the summer or when you need power. Hopefully at the end of the true-up period, I’ll end up with surplus, in which case PG&E is now mandated by state law to send me a check. Amazingly, it didn’t used to be that way, and they were getting free surplus electricity.
If at the end of the true-up period, I used electricity, I pay for that then. Since I’m able to watch usage online and on the SmartMeter, it should be manageable to ensure we come out ahead (unless we have an extended heat wave). No matter what though, we are pretty much free of the tyranny of the 90 cents per kilowatt-hour in the summer when tiered rates kick in to punish us valley dwellers.
More info on the net metering program is here: http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/solarupgrade/index.page
=========================
Do you want one for yourself? Here’s how you can help yourself and help me in the process.
Since I’ve done all the work of documenting the process, the Grape Solar Company has agreed to offer me a finders fee for anyone who purchases a similar system through them via COSTCO. Here’s how to do it:
1. Contact Steve Bouton or Garret Towne at Grape Solar via telephone or by email:
Grape Solar, Inc. 1305 South Bertelsen Road, Eugene, Oregon 97402
Tel: 541.349.9000 Fax: 541.343.9000
Email: steven.bouton “at” grapesolar.com or garret.towne “at” grapesolar.com
2. Tell them you read this article, give them my name so they will credit me.
3. Give them your details, they will design a system to suit your needs free of charge. They’ll need your address, description of your view of the sky to the south (sometimes visible on Google Earth) plus your goals for electricity saving, (full replacement, supplemental, add as you go, etc.). Arrange financing if need be – note how I used my local bank to finance a loan against my savings account for a win-win.
4. Grape Solar will set you up with a custom order you can place on COSTCO.com that will include everything you will need. Then contact an installer. They’ll also supply a list of installers in your area if you don’t wish to do the work yourself. As I mentioned, you may be able to do some work yourself to help the installer to save money. Be sure to ask.
5. You’ll make the order with COSTCO, either you’ll need a credit card with a high limit or you’ll have to wire the money to COSTCO (which is what I did). BE SURE TO ASK TO HAVE YOUR COSTCO MEMBERSHIP NUMBER APPLIED TO THE SALE. This will ensure that if you have an account that gives you a rebate for year total purchases, you’ll get that year-end 2% cash back. 2% of a $20K system is $400, well worth the effort!
6. You have your installer get work permits and do the paperwork with your local utility company – this is key. Without these being done right, you are dead in the water. make sure your installer will do these for you.
7. Install the system – get it inspected and turned on. Submit final paperwork to your local utility company for any rebate programs they may have.
8. Keep all your paperwork for tax time – you may be eligible for tax credits – check with your tax preparer.
9. Enjoy a lower or zero power bill
============================
I hope this gives everyone who is interested the path forward. if you have questions about this please ask in comments. – Anthony
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Paul Milenkovic says:
March 23, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Your “secret” is actually twofold, Paul.
First, where you live there is only about 40% of the need for cooling that Anthony has in Chico. CDD in Madison (65°F base) is 568 degree-days/year, whereas in Chico there’s 1,391 cooling degree days per year. With your pitifully small cooling load, it’s no surprise your power use is low.
Second, you’re not paying gouging outrageous PGE-level prices for your power.
Since neither of those are the result of your actions, you might dial the crowing back a tad …
w.
Geez Anthony, I’m a bit surprised that with all the “big oil money” and the “conspiracy funding network” that you don’t have a much grander house!
Poor old David Suzuki is out there doing the the right thing and telling us not to build huge houses:
But he is struggling a little restraining himself: “not all of us have a house on the water in Point Grey, another property in Toronto, another one in Australia, and another one on Quadra Island, like David Suzuki.” http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/size-does-matter/story-e6frfhqf-1111113559249
In spite of all his efforts /sarc he is apparently not loved by all; http://suzukiwatch.wordpress.com/about/
Nice job Anthony. Are you using Radiant barriers? I’ve put this stuff under my house, and planning to do the attic before summer kicks in. Quite Inexpensive.
http://www.reflectixinc.com/
Anthony, I asked JoNova resident power usage/consumption expert, TonyfromOz about your solar system, linking my question to this article.
His very considered response can be read here;
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/03/what-happened-to-earth-hour-celebrate-its-the-power-hour-tonight/#comment-1257607
Sal Minella said on March 23, 2013 at 12:07 pm:
“Nice installation and documentation, however, I have a problem with the
utilities paying for dribs and drabs of intermittent power being generated
at tens of thousands of sites. It would seem that most of the power fed back
into the grid in this way cannot be relied upon by the utility company and is,
therefor, just dissipated making the cost of energy even higher for all
ratepayers.”
Most of the “tens of thousands” contributing “dribs and drabs” each will
be contributing their most when that is most-needed – in summertime at
higher temperature times of the day.
These “tens of thousands” have a profit motive to be generating supply,
especially when it is most needed. I expect most of them to succeed.
Betapug said, on March 23, 2013 at 12:16 pm:
“Good to see your inverters are made in a wood burning heated plant and are:
100% free of nuclear power
100% CO2-neutral”
What is the bugaboo about nuclear power? Why should the folks concerned
about CO2 be against nuclear energy? Is not nuclear power as non-CO2-
producing as solar or wind?
_Jim says:
March 23, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Manfred says March 23, 2013 at 4:01 pm
…
Those solar cells do not replace any powerplants nor any grid infrastructure,
…
Wait – wait – wait; in the aggregate, that last ‘marginally’ produced MWH would not have to be produced by the PGE generators, ever, if, in the aggregate systems like Anthony’s were in place and able to produce power during peak (i.e. demand) consumption hours … as ‘peak’ demand can occur into the evening hours (at least in Texas) as the sun sets the amount of energy produced will taper off, obviously. And, the energy transferred via high-voltage transmission lines from the generating station to substations (where distribution level voltages are created from the HV lines coming in) would be less as well, since generation is in effect occurring out among the ‘loads’ (i.e. in the ‘load center’) themselves … Of course, this is idealistically speaking, with mileage varying as we are nowhere near this situation at the present (AND we may not get there either, but, that is subject for disc. at another time).
——————————————————–
Yes, I agree with that. In California with such a demand curve
http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/assets_c/2012/06/Screen%20shot%202012-06-25%20at%205.04.04%20PM-thumb-600×527-31140.png
solar energy may replace some power stations.
And if there is storage available for the few hours until about 22:00 o’clock, quite a significant chunk. Even more, if solar systems are connected across the country and across time zones.Then the benefit is significantly higher than just the saved fuel at about 1 cent/kWh.
In my comment, I was thinking more about the situation in Germany, with peak demand at Winter evenings often with close to zero contribution from solar systems.
Geoff Sherrington says:March 23, 2013 at 8:31 pm
“….Arguing to the extreme, if everyone copied your idea in a short time, the power companies would have to raise supply costs or go broke….”
Hang on Geoff, isn’t this what the whole dang thing is about?!! Is not the whole dang idea to tax and otherwise raise the price of energy to the point that people go looking for an alternative? No doubt it will result in financial chaos, but at least the world will be saved. /sarc
Andy,
It seems you are right about the summertime cost of electricity in the Central Valley. Here in Tokyo, where electricity rates are overall among the world’s highest, the summertime peak electricity rates per kwh are about two-thirds those that you pay. Like you, our cooling needs in the summer are intense and our AC runs 24/7 80%-90% of the time between June and September.
Luther Wu says:
March 23, 2013 at 7:10 pm
Ps You’ve heard of huge hailstones that destroy cars and punch holes through roofs?
Welcome to my neck o’ the woods.
============================================
Be sure that they use Lexan for the PV covers. Same stuff they use in jails and you can hit it with a ball paean hammer and it wont hurt it… little more price but hail wont kill your PV panels..
Anthony,
Thanks for the great post. We just got home from a funeral in the north state so I didn’t chime in earlier. We went for a solar instal through Kurios Energy in Modesto, CA for the same reasons that you went with Baran Golacy…you own the system when you are done. The lease and buy back schemes appear to be heavy on scheme and low on value.
Here in San Joaquin County, California, we have encountered summer electric bills in excess of $500 / month for a 2,000 square foot house. PG&E rate charges are arbitrary, subject to comparison to a mythical efficient household in your area (which may be half the size of your house), and are impossible to decipher or predict. Supposedly we are on a single rate plan…but the single rate plan varies from .12/KWH to .33/KWH plus add ons for heavy use.
We went with 28 MAGE panels running through Enphase inverters. Total cost of system was $36,000 for parts, labor and permits. The PG&E (Perpetual Graft & Extortion) rebate will be about 1,200 and the tax credit will amount to over 10,000. And before the whiners start, nobody is giving me that money! It is money that will not be stolen from me at the point of many guns by our benevolent overlords in Washington and Sacramento. Theft is theft and anytime you can prevent the B#$&**((^%s from taking some of your hard earned cash, do it! Especially if you can end up with cheaper electricity in the long run. Like Anthony I won’t know for a full year exactly how much we’ll save but we are currently making more than we use. With rates rising perpetually, the savings will only grow over time.
pbh
“Thanks to PG&E’s new smart-meter system, they can now GOUGE me more efficiently and on schedule, when I need electricity to keep cool the most.”
Anthony – with respect, I think you mean they can GAUGE you rather than GOUGE you. Not much gouging going on at the Watts ranch.
Great job with your solar system, BTW. Well done.
Is there a tool for estimating the effect of the shaded roof?
You may say that it doesn’t have anything to do with climate change, but the fact is, it does. Your investment wouldn’t be worthwhile if it wasn’t for “war with climate” your state is waging which drove electricity prices as high as to 90 cents per kWh.
$25,000 is more than I and my family spend for electricity in 30 years in my country at current (already elevated) prices. I’m definitely not looking forward the time when spending $25,000 on my own power source will be cheaper than using electricity from the grid…
Hi Anthony, I’m glad your system seems to be working well. It’s a shame that conditions in the World’s Largest Looney Bin have reached the point where it simply makes sense for an ordinary person to do something like that. I’ve considered a serious natural power installation for reasons that have nothing to with “carbon footprint,” “save the whales,” or any of the rest of that a few times myself. So far I’ve always had to conclude, after I worked out the numbers, that much as I would love to tell certain (expletives deleted) to take a flying dive off the Space Needle, it made no economic sense whatever.
Perhaps it’s time to do the full workup again. I still don’t expect to come up with anything likely to go positive in my lifetime, but I wouldn’t mind being wrong and it might come close enough to be worth it for the egoboo. It might also be worthwhile to see how the actual numbers work out for conditions in different areas.
For the record, my home is 100 odd years old, about 4200 sq ft. 2 stories plus basement. That I had to crawl out of one that was burning down around me when I was much younger may have something to do with it, but I am nearly phobic about flames. I have no fireplace. I use a heat pump, electric range, and water heater. Even if this configuration was not common where I live, I would still have it. Also I neither smoke nor burn candles. My electric bill covers almost my entire energy use at home. Last year I paid $2980 for electricity, from a high of $407 in December to a low of $156 in September. Some of my neighbors, including my uncle, say they paid more than that for heating oil alone.
I don’t claim I’m putting much effort into minimizing it. We’re fairly gadget happy with a variety of televisions, computers and other electronic dodads scattered all over. The OM is an avid ham radio operator. I’ve built an elaborate model railroad in the basement. And, oh yeah, in addition to a piano, I have two organs, and a variety of electronic keyboards, guitars, amplifiers and other stuff intended to make music. I spend a fair amount of time trying.
Peace and gud DX 😉
Kat
Questions: Does such an installation affect the cost of your house insurance in terms of making residence a more risky place to be what with sun-generated electricimity happening above one’s head and hard to isolate spark prone high current “more dangerous than AC” DC being piped about the place ? Also, what does your local firebrigade think about such installations and are they equipped and trained to deal with them in the event of failure or disaster or whatever ?
Would your local firebrigade be more inclined to let your place burn to the ground on a sunny day than put themselves at risk in tackling a DC created roof fire ?
Don’t get me wrong; I too have a small solar installation and it services batteries and an AC inverter. However, none of is located in or on my actual residence for, as a boaty, I’d rather keep the “engine room” nicely isolated/firewalled away from anywhere I actually sleep. 🙂
Heck, even in “star-trek” there is always provision to “eject the core”, yes ?
Hard to do that if it is bolted to the roof !
AFAIC, the only solar that should go on house roof is the kind associated with water heating. (Yeah, I’ve got that too and it keeps an outdoor spa bath nicely heated.)
If you ask me, putting DC generation upon one’s roof where storms or parrots or the sun itself can destroy cabling, is just asking for trouble.
One would think that your insurance company would think the same and charge accordingly.
I’ve thought about rooftop solar but the re-shingling cost plus the reduced selling price of my home kills the idea. Where I live alot of home buyers use rooftop panels as an excuse to reduce their purchase price, but then again we don’t pay 90 cents /kwh either.
For those interested you can see UK ‘alternative’ energy contribution here live: http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/index.php For the gigantic sums invested, the land destroyed, the ticking time bomb of generators failing it’s pretty obvious it’s a total bust.
Without wishing to be too much of a devil’s advocate it does seem that you are living proof that the policies of the great leader Kim Jong Jerry Brown of the Soviet Socialist State of California are working exactly as he and his watermelons predicted. He is driving you off fossil fuels onto renewables and thus “saving the planet” for his great,great great, grand So-Cal clone people who I trust will be more compliant towards the revered Agenda 21 than you have been. Either way, he has won this round.
regards, Ivor Ward
“I’ll have the solar system paid for in five years”. That sounds good!
In the UK around 2000 it was beginning to be around 50 years for payback. So, I look at people in the UK with solar panels and think: “you money grabbing idiot … you’ll be paying out more than get in and … no doubt your roof will leak”.
In contrast, a DIY solar heating installation (i.e. heating water) could pay back in 2-5 years.
But by far … the best form of solar heating comes from a device I invented a few years ago which I haven’t got a name for so … perhaps this is the point to call it the Wonderful Ingenious Newage Development originating on Wuwt.
Basically … you cut a hole through your Sun facing wall, and then fill the gap with sheets of high tech Supercooled Silicon Dioxide. A superior version uses multiple sheets and for the best performance I could put an IR blocking coating. In warmer climes, the system can have a projection of the top surface of the building which projects out to shade the orifice in summer when the higher sun is shaded by the lower winter sun gets through.
oops … maybe I should have got the patent first before divulging it on WUWT?
John Slayton says “Although KWhrs that I provide to the grid are supposed to offset KWhrs that I draw from the grid at the full retail rate, it is clear that this is not being done.”
Can John or anyone else explain why I as a ratepayer should be buying your unreliable off-peak solar power at full retail prices? My electric company buys reliable power when it is needed for about 4 cents, but people with solar on their roof expect to get 14 cents? That doesn’t make any sense at all. People selling solar should to the grid should be paid what the power is worth, not full retail.
I have solar panels, but I also sprung for very expensive AGM batteries. I use those to run electronics and emergency power when the grid is down. I do not grid tie because I do not believe in ripping off my fellow rate payers.
It appears that Gavin has noticed that heavy taxation on energy is having the effect he desires:
https://twitter.com/ClimateOfGavin/status/315738488102322176
Also note the softer term, “dismissives”. Perhaps they are starting to understand that the other D-word has the opposite effect to that which they intend.
Anthony,
Welcome to the solar club! I installed a 5kw system a few years ago,also using Grape
Solar panels, but with a PV Powered inverter. I have some performance charts at my blog: http://robertchristine.blogspot.com/2010/03/4-kw-solar-electric.html
I chose a ground mount, which has some advantages over a roof installation, but costs a lot more. It is easy to clean, and I tilt it for the winter months. They also perform somewhat better because they are cooler. I often have my inverter hit its peak of 4830 watts from my 5880 watts of panels. That is 82% efficient vs. 72%. So in time the added cost of the ground mount will be recovered.
I added additional panels, and posted some performance data here:
http://robertchristine.blogspot.com/2010/09/solar-electric-upgrade.html
I heat with coal, and these panels are located on top of my coal bin. That combination would likely make a “Green Weenie’s” head explode.
My payback will be considerably longer than yours because our electric rates have stayed surprisingly low at 14.9 cents/kwh, all charges included.
Finally, if you don’t have cheap natural gas available, consider a solar hot water system. That has paid off extremely well for me, since I found a used Reynolds Aluminum hot water system for only $500. I have collected 3 years of performance data. It supplies about 75% of my hot water, and I live in relatively cloudy Pennsylvania. See: http://robertchristine.blogspot.com/2009/09/solar-hot-water.html
Has anyone asked ‘Gavin’ if he has solar fitted to his house? And if he has, did he have to get a low-interest (personal) loan to pay for it?
So, if everybody in California installed one of these and if everybody was a “net generator” paying nothing and receiving a check from the power company, the power company would be out of business. This, therefore, is not a “sustainable” enterprise.