UPDATE: I’ve answered questions from commenters below in the FAQs, and added additional diagrams – Anthony
Much to the chagrin of people who are sure I’m evil, in the pocket of big oil, and highly carbon positive, I’m actually an independent and pretty energy efficient guy, and I challenge any of my detractors to show their solar and energy efficiency projects. Put your money where your mouthpiece is, I say. For example, do loud climate campaigners Joe Romm and Bill McKibben have solar power on their homes? Do Jim Hansen and Michael Mann have solar power while telling us we all must cut back our energy usage linked to fossil fuels? Inquiring minds want to know.
Readers may recall last summer that I put up my third solar power project, my first being on my older home, then a large 125KW solar project I started as Trustee for the Chico Unified School District. My third project is doing quite well, and a number of readers have asked for an update on my original article as they are considering doing what I have done. This being the day of the electricity denying “Earth Hour”, I thought it would be a good day to write about how I’m beating my electric bill. You see, while many tout the supposed CO2 saving properties of solar panels, my impetus is entirely different: I’m hedging against California’s exorbitant green-driven utility rates.
For example, see below from my bill last year when temperatures went up in the summer, and tell me if where you live you come anywhere close to paying what I do.
Above: my actual rate and costs from last summer June-July 2012.
Thanks to PG&E’s new smart-meter system, they can now gouge me more efficiently and on schedule, when I need electricity to keep cool the most. I doubt there’s anyone reading this entry that pays 93 cents per kilowatt-hour to keep their home cool in summer.
I (along with millions of others in California) pay what I call a “location tax” due to my living in California’s Sacramento Valley, where summer temperatures regularly hit and exceed 100F. The majority of California’s population, living along the coast, don’t see temperatures anywhere near that, and thus don’t have similar air conditioning issues.
And, with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) running amok with cap-and-trade regulation frenzy, with refusal of coal and nuclear energy, relying on green wind power mostly for the future, combined with a looming national Carbon Tax, finding a way to generate your own electricity is in my opinion, the best hedge against future cost increases. Climate concerns don’t even rate with me on this issue, I’m thinking more about my financial future and the health and comfort of my family, and that’s why I got a solar system – it’s a hedge against the green energy and climate madness.
Here’s how I beat the green menace and PG&E.
Remember back in December when climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann was so out of touch that he couldn’t even conceive that I could do calendars for myself (I sent him a free one), but instead it must have been some nefariously funded production? Well, he probably can’t conceive of how I put up my own solar system either, since like the Josh Calendars, I did it using COSTCO and some sweat equity.
Here’s a few FAQs.
1. Did “big oil” or some other entity pay you to do this?
No.
Did you use government grants to do this? No. Did you get money from the WUWT tip jar or calendar sales to do this? No.
So how did you pay for this? Simple. I took out a low-interest loan against my savings account the contents of which was then converted to a certificate of deposit spanning five years. I’ll have the solar system paid for in five years, and the CD will be free at that time. Then I’ll have a solar system and my savings principal intact plus I’ll get interest on the certificate of deposit. Basically I’m trading my PG&E electric bill for a financing bill for five years.
How much did it cost? About $25,000 and change, fully installed, plus shipping and tax on the hardware portion.
2. Why didn’t you get one of those “no money down” solar systems being advertised today?
I’m borrowing and adapting a popular credit card slogan to best explain this: “ownership has its advantages”. I looked into several of these other plans, and when I penciled out the entire scheme, it didn’t make much financial sense, and at the end of the lease, I either had to buy the system at “fair market value” (to be determined) or they come and remove the system. And given the number of solar company bankruptcy/failures out there (think Solyndra), I was concerned that I’d be straddled with a system that was orphaned due to the company going out of business and the debt purchased by some holding company, who could then argue that previous contracts were “null and void” due to such bankruptcy and “oh, by the way here’s your new payment schedule”. When you want to control your own destiny, relying on others is not a safe bet.
3. Grid-tied or battery storage?
It is a grid-tied system. Battery storage systems really don’t make any sense for a city dweller, as they are primarily off-the-grid type applications where you need independent power 24/7. This was primarily a financial consideration, not a power security one.
4. Did you get any government rebates?
No, there was a PG&E rebate program, which put about $1200 (based on my system size) back in my pocket, but as I said earlier, I got no government money related to this. There will be some small tax advantages for me.
5. Does it make any noise or heat?
No, the inverters are essentially silent, except for one small fan. The inverters do make some waste heat, but they are mounted outside, and not an issue. The solar panels actually help keep the house a bit cooler, as they absorb sunlight for a good portion of the roof space, which otherwise would have gone to heating the attic.
6. Has it saved you money?
Yes, absolutely. More details follow.
7. How does your power bill work now?
We get a quarterly summary showing our electric use/surplus, and a year-end “true up” bill to balance any difference. We still have to pay for natural gas usage separately.
8. How big is it? How much power?
36 panels, of 250watts each, for a maximum DC output of 9000 watts (9KW). Of course that’s under optimal sun angle and atmospheric conditions, and with DC to AC power conversion loss, the real max is closer to 6500 watts of AC power. Typical days run anywhere from 4500-5500 KW at peak sun. I opted for the better monocrystalline (blue color) panels rather than the polymorphous (brownish) solar panels as they are more efficient and longer lasting.
9. (added) How soon do you expect to be able to pay back your investment?
If I assume a linear payback rate, it would be about 12 years. However, I think it will be closer to 9 years based on my estimates of what the future holds. First, a look at recent rates by state:
Source: http://www.pacificpower.net/about/rr/rpc.html
Now, look at the forecast for residential electricity prices. It isn’t linear.
Source: US Department of Energy
10. (added) What is your cost of capital?
The way my loan is setup, guaranteed against a certificate of deposit earning interest, the APR works out to 0.8%. Over 5 years, that works out to be $511.66 for the cost of the loan.
11. (added) How does the mounting system affect your roof integrity? Will you get leaks?
The installation was guaranteed to be leak free, and after this winter rains, I can testify to that. The way the roof mount works, the screws used to secure the rack support post are put under a metal “flashing” cone, and screwed in with a sealant applied to the screw threads. This guarantees that there’s no rain penetration because the flashing not only prevents the screws from getting rain in the first place, the flashing acts just like another shingle. Here’s a diagram I prepared showing how it works:
See a descriptive animation here: http://www.unirac.com/video/animations/solarmount-i/index.html
12. Why didn’t you go with larger panels (like the 300 watt panels of the same size).
Because the volume pricing COSTCO had arranged (at that time) did not offer that size. Adding my 2% COSTCO rebate combined with the lower overall cost made the 250watt panels a no-brainer.
Specs on the panels are here: 
GRAPE SOLAR 250W MONO PDF
13. How was the system shipped?
It arrived by truck as two large pallets, plus a third long package of rails. I stored these in my garage, unpacked them, and hauled the shipping materials to my office dumpster.
14. What about possible hail damage?
The rated impact resistance: hail diameter of 28mm (1.1″) with speed of 86km/h. (53mph)
These panels are really tough. My installer says you can drop them from the roof onto the concrete and they’ll survive just fine (he’s done it by accident more than once). here is a video and a news item that suggests the panels are tougher than the roofing.
News item:
Surprisingly little damage to rooftop solar panels
The epic hailstorm did surprisingly little damage to the tens of thousands of pricey solar-power arrays built on metro Phoenix rooftops in recent years.
http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20110930biz-hailstorm1002solar.html
======================
Purchasing the system
As I mentioned, I used COSTCO to buy the entire hardware system. They resell from a company in Oregon called “Grape Solar“. Here’s their largest package:
I actually wanted more power than that, so I contacted Grape Solar directly, described my needs, showed my house roof plan and power bills, and they came up with a custom design for me at no charge. Here’s the line item summary of what I bought:
I did a lot of research on this system, and found it was well designed and likely to live up to its claims, 8 months in, so far so good.
NOTE: Detailed instructions on how to order your own system from COSTCO follow at the end of this article.
Here’s links to manuals (PDF) on the items above:
- Grid-tied Solar System Layout Example
- Solar System Install Guide
- Solar Panel Specification Sheet
- PV Power Inverter Manual
- Solar System Quickstart Guide
I particularly like the Kaco Blue Planet DC to AC PV inverters, which are compact, quiet, efficient, and good-looking to boot. Here they are (5000 watt and 3500 watt models) on the side of my home with the PG&E SmartMeter. DC power comes in at the conduit from the solar panels at top right, AC power exits at bottom left in the curved conduit to junction box to tie into my AC mains breaker box.
=======================
Installing the solar system
While I “could” have done the entire installation myself, having mad electric and electronic skills, I opted to have someone experienced in this particular technology do it for me. The Grape Solar company contact gave me a list of certified installers in the area, and I called each of them up and asked them questions. The guy who held up under my intense questioning (A fellow in Redding named Baran Galocy) got the job. For some of the installers, I knew more than they did, never a good sign. Choose wisely.
Plus, this fellow was willing to work with me to trade some sweat equity for a lower installation cost. Since a good portion of time is spent in transport, unpacking, staging, and disposal of packaging, I opted to perform those tasks in sync with his job schedule to save labor time and thus money. Check with an installer you might choose to see if they will do the same for you.
Permits, of course are required. The first step was getting a city work permit, so that the city could get their “cut”. I say this because their inspection was total BS, the inspector never opened a panel box or climbed on the roof to inspect panels. He was most interested in whether mandated warning labels like this below (to protect the stupid) were properly applied. Your mileage in your city may vary. Fortunately the installer handled getting these, keeping my blood pressure down.
The next step was to put up the UNIRAC mounting system on the roof:
This took about three partial work days to complete, since only mad dogs and Englishmen work on rooftops in the midday summer sun. Here it is completed:
The next step was placing and securing panels, while doing base panel wiring:
Note the ladder contraption at the right. This is carpet remnants secured to ladder and rooftop. Shown in red to the left of the ladder is a nylon rope hawser with clips I designed that allows the man on top to pull up the panels while I push from below. This saves your back, plus virtually eliminates the possibility of dropping them and/or an injurious fall. The carpet prevents the panels from being scratched or damaged while they are pulled up.
This paneling operation took about two partial work days to complete.
Finally, the last step was to hang the inverters on the outside wall and to finish all the interconnect wiring. which took about another day.
Waiting for the city building inspector and for PG&E to “approve” the installation for grid connect took far longer than the actual installation. Then I discovered that PG&E changed one of their forms in the middle of the process, and we had to re-do the paperwork. While the install was competed in August, we didn’t actually get the final connect and switchover to net metering until December. Ain’t bureaucracy grand? I was just unlucky, you can figure about 2-4 weeks in most cases.
==========================
Results!
Here is a photo of my SmartMeter running today at about 940AM:
The 5.01 kW reading is my instantaneous generation, note at the right side it says “Received”. If I am using more power than I generate (or it is nighttime) that will switch to say “Delivered”. So now as I’m writing this, I’m 5kW net positive at my home.
At the top, in the big numbers is the summation of Kilowatt-hours over the lifetime of the meter. When the meter is delivered, it is set to read 00000. If I am using more electricity than I generate, it will show a net positive value (i.e 00234) if I have generated more electricity than I used, it will go backwards from 99999 and as this shows I’m at 99340, leaving a surplus of 660 Kilowatt-hours since the system was switched over in December. most of December and January was fairly overcast here, so my biggest gains have been recent, as shown in my SmartMeter summary online (highlighted in Yellow), I’ve now surpassed energy-efficient homes in my area:
My usage has gone negative:
Nice to see the money flowing to me too, here’s my quarterly bill:
Unfortunately, I still have to pay all those taxes and fees amounting to $4.66, even though I’m a net generator rather than a consumer, but I’ll take the deal.
================
How this works
The strategy is simple, generate/save as much electricity as you can during non-summer months, bank it (as shown on the meter) and then draw against that bank of generated energy during the summer or when you need power. Hopefully at the end of the true-up period, I’ll end up with surplus, in which case PG&E is now mandated by state law to send me a check. Amazingly, it didn’t used to be that way, and they were getting free surplus electricity.
If at the end of the true-up period, I used electricity, I pay for that then. Since I’m able to watch usage online and on the SmartMeter, it should be manageable to ensure we come out ahead (unless we have an extended heat wave). No matter what though, we are pretty much free of the tyranny of the 90 cents per kilowatt-hour in the summer when tiered rates kick in to punish us valley dwellers.
More info on the net metering program is here: http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/solarupgrade/index.page
=========================
Do you want one for yourself? Here’s how you can help yourself and help me in the process.
Since I’ve done all the work of documenting the process, the Grape Solar Company has agreed to offer me a finders fee for anyone who purchases a similar system through them via COSTCO. Here’s how to do it:
1. Contact Steve Bouton or Garret Towne at Grape Solar via telephone or by email:
Grape Solar, Inc. 1305 South Bertelsen Road, Eugene, Oregon 97402
Tel: 541.349.9000 Fax: 541.343.9000
Email: steven.bouton “at” grapesolar.com or garret.towne “at” grapesolar.com
2. Tell them you read this article, give them my name so they will credit me.
3. Give them your details, they will design a system to suit your needs free of charge. They’ll need your address, description of your view of the sky to the south (sometimes visible on Google Earth) plus your goals for electricity saving, (full replacement, supplemental, add as you go, etc.). Arrange financing if need be – note how I used my local bank to finance a loan against my savings account for a win-win.
4. Grape Solar will set you up with a custom order you can place on COSTCO.com that will include everything you will need. Then contact an installer. They’ll also supply a list of installers in your area if you don’t wish to do the work yourself. As I mentioned, you may be able to do some work yourself to help the installer to save money. Be sure to ask.
5. You’ll make the order with COSTCO, either you’ll need a credit card with a high limit or you’ll have to wire the money to COSTCO (which is what I did). BE SURE TO ASK TO HAVE YOUR COSTCO MEMBERSHIP NUMBER APPLIED TO THE SALE. This will ensure that if you have an account that gives you a rebate for year total purchases, you’ll get that year-end 2% cash back. 2% of a $20K system is $400, well worth the effort!
6. You have your installer get work permits and do the paperwork with your local utility company – this is key. Without these being done right, you are dead in the water. make sure your installer will do these for you.
7. Install the system – get it inspected and turned on. Submit final paperwork to your local utility company for any rebate programs they may have.
8. Keep all your paperwork for tax time – you may be eligible for tax credits – check with your tax preparer.
9. Enjoy a lower or zero power bill
============================
I hope this gives everyone who is interested the path forward. if you have questions about this please ask in comments. – Anthony
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Great job, Anthony! Your installation is of similar size as mine (9.55 kW) and cost half as much to purchase and install. Since you’re farther south, it will also generate more power each year. (I’m at 45 degrees latitude. Annual power production is about 9,600 kWh.)
I have a better deal financially — the neighbors are paying for it. Residential power costs are about 10.5 cents/kWh (monthly bill divided by kWh used that month). I’m paid 58.5 cents per kWh generated (whether I use it or ship it out through the meter) on a 15-year contract with the local power company. At the end of that time, I’ll be able to switch to net metering (what you’re doing now). Payoff will occur in about ten years, so the last five years of the contract will be gravy. After that, I’ll still have about 80% of my power produced by the sun.
I’m near retirement. After seeing how insane the electricity prices are in California, I installed the system to protect my wife and myself in our old age. It’s nice that so many of my neighbors are willing to bankroll my lifestyle!
Chad Wozniak says:
March 23, 2013 at 4:59 pm
I’d be real interested to hear if Mann, Hansen, Gore, Obama or any of those other alarmist blatherskites have solar panels on their houses.
=============
Hansen especially with his death trains of coal. How can he be using electricity from the mains knowing that this uses coal and is killing his grandchildren? And what about manufactured goods that were built using power from coal? Certainly Hansen cannot be using any of these knowing that he is killing everyone grandchildren everywhere. Or is he?
Isn’t it time that everyone that says “We Need To Do Something” actually did something more than talk. Not by trying to force everyone ELSE to do something. But did something themselves so that they don’t produce any CO2, so they have “ZERO EMISSIONS” and don’t use any products that are not “SUSTAINABLE”.
Forget about symbolic change, or paying poor people in the third world to “OFFSET” your emissions (eat your sins) Al Gore style. What about real change? Or are they all a bunch of well meaning hypocrites? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Mann, Hansen, Gore, Obama you are being called out. You only talk the talk. Anthony walks the walk.
Anthony Watts, it’s just MEAN to tease the poor little dears like this. Just because they’re too busy flying around the world giving speeches and attending meetings doesn’t make it their fault if they haven’t put up any silly solar panels. Honestly I don’t know how you expect them to live up to these kind of standards when they are so busy telling us all how to save the world.
Would aluminum shingles help your roof as well? Got to be damn hot up there with those asphalt ones.
Posted on March 23, 2013 by Anthony Watts
My home solar
Put your money where your mouthpiece is, I say. For example, do loud climate campaigners Joe Romm and Bill McKibben have solar power on their homes? Do Jim Hansen and Michael Mann have solar power while telling us we all must cut back our energy usage linked to fossil fuels? Inquiring minds want to know.
===============
Google maps is your answer. I can see my roof from google maps plain as day and have no problem finding neighboring houses with solar panels installed. They stand out without any problem. google these self-proclaimed saviors and see what they have installed.
DirkH (March 23, 2013 at 4:17 pm) quoted RHL about the reason for the safety warnings and added:
Even at night 700 to 1000 Volt depending on the number of panels can build up; full moon suffices; very little current but enough voltage to kill. The precaution by the firefighters is to let the building burn down and save the neighbourhood.
With respect to voltage out of a solar array: In the U.S., the maximum voltage out of a string of solar panels mounted on a house roof (and thus into the inverter) is limited to 600 volts by the National Electrical Code. The calculation must use the lowest temperature expected in the area, because that’s when the voltage out of the panels is highest.
My system uses 39 Solar World 245 Watt monocrystalline panels in three stings of 13 panels each. Maximum voltage at zero degrees Fahrenheit (about -18 Celsius) is 585 volts, give or take. That’s still potentially lethal, if the panels are able to supply more than a few milliamperes of current.
With respect to fire fighting: My system has a disconnect on the roof. If a fire should occur, firemen will pull the roof disconnect to stop it from feeding power into the house wiring. They’ll pull the main meter to shut off grid power. Then, they’ll fight the fire.
As reference: On cool days and full sun, the panel output of my 9.55 kW system is just under 400 volts with 26 Amperes of current flow (the panels output more than their advertised specifications). A few days ago, power output from the inverter peaked at 9.74 kW. Today, with a few more clouds, the peak was at 8.07 kW. Now (late in the day), it’s producing a bit over 400 watts from an input of 397 volts at 1.1 Amps. (My Fronius inverter’s efficiency is specified to be > 95%.)
Anthony, ya lost me. Where I live subsidies for this happy crap are North of 90%. After 10 years the savings don’t pay for the cost of an inverter replacement. Nor do they account for how they screw up t the grid when the clouds pass over, even in your area. Glad you are saving money but after a certain tipping point the grid experiences frequency response to these type of interruptible resources. Who will pay for that? Not you of course or the jack ass behind me who got his system free.
Go off the grid if you want to impress. Otherwise I and others with utility experience are not buying this.
Oh and by the way $.93/KWh is only a peak rate. Turn your freakin air off during that time and save your 25k.
We pay 10.5 cents in TX at my house. Our data centers and offices we pay 4.5-5.5 cents. CA is screwed.
Good job, Anthony. A few comments:
1) not cost effective here, yet (OKC)
2) word has it that local utility nevertheless looked into supplying a part of town experiencing wild growth and found it cheaper to continue super- cooling- type techniques to supply peak watts over existing grid tie.
3) the VA hospital just spent God only knows how much on a PV parking lot cover
4) the meters required (like yours) can turn off your power remotely… be 5 minutes late with your bill and get a very nasty- gram warning
Ps You’ve heard of huge hailstones that destroy cars and punch holes through roofs?
Welcome to my neck o’ the woods.
flyfisher says:
March 23, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Would aluminum shingles help your roof as well? Got to be damn hot up there with those asphalt ones.
=======================================
If your going to place PV’s on your roof, the longer lasting metal ones are the way to go. ( no tearing it up) Just take the time to get a high grade sealant for the roof mount holes. The PV array takes away most of the heat so it is a good win/win. a little planning and long term investment will pay off well..
Mine are on a pole system and not on the roof due to 100mph wind problems..
Nice article, but usage numbers for my location show an 11+ yr simple payback (which hasn’t really dropped in the last 5 years). At that level I won’t even bother to consider the realistic discounted period. That’s based on your cost numbers Anthony, not the inflated installation wages here in SoCal. For reference, my annual electricity bill here in Orange County CA (slightly inland) is about $2100/yr (last year). An inland desert community would change this calculation however. If my discounted payback gets under 8yrs with a reasonable cost of capital (8% or so, my company uses 12 for asset purchases), this kind of project would look interesting.
For those of you who noted that anthony “makes out” by selling during daylight hours and consuming during night, that is exactly when power is required here in Kalifornia. Edison at one point even experimented with offering businesses preferrential rates to close during afternoon hours and shift production to the evenings because generation capability was so low. Coal fired power plants do not shut down. You don’t just turn off or on a boiler, so that generation continues at night regardless. Essentially wasted power. Anthony’s solar actually provides a significant service in that it is power that is generated when it is needed.
BTW, my low cost of operations come from insulation, LED, spot lighting vs area, ceiling fans and a 15 SEER AC system. Total costs are less than the solar PV materials cost. My next efficiency move is to a gas range rather than electric, then to alternative generation.
Good job Anthony.
That was a good and informative post. My questions:
1. How much pay do you receive for your feed-in tariff and is it time/usage weighted like the bills for usage?
2. Why 8500 watts?
An a comment: my electricity bill seldom exceeds $40 even in hot months (ca 100F daytime, but windy nights), so I won’t be able to afford a pv system for a long time.
So, Anthony, you are now OFFICIALLY, a “solar system Climate Change denier.”
if needed sarc/
One thing over looked in air handling duct work running through a hot (or cold) attic is the crappy R6 duct insulation (R6 ideal, more like R4 as installed). I got a minimum 25% air temp delta improvement by wrap insulating ~280′ of duct and ~80 sq ft of plenum surface with R30 for ~$600 in materials. Since my A/C evaporator is also in the attic I routed the water condensate to drip on the condenser (instead of the sewer) for some additional improvement and also added a water valve tap in case I wanted cheaper distilled water equivalent for batteries, irons, humidifiers etc.
The pool pump is another large draw @ur momisugly 2.6KW at a recommended 12 hours minimum per day for algae prevention. After some experimentation I discovered that by keeping the Cl level @ur momisugly 4-9ppm (instead of 1-2ppm) that the pump only needed to be run as required to clean the pool with the robot. I also discovered that it is easy to keep these levels in the colder pool water off season with a single TriChlor float dispenser under the solar blanket. These levels are needed (apparently) because of the higher Cyanuric Acid levels that occur from constant usage of TriChlor and the only way to get the CYA down is to drain the pool which requires the expense of refilling or in my case using up many hours of water well pump life. Another way to get free turnover of the water is to use rain water from the roof gutters which for my house runs about 5:1 (5 inches of pool height for 1 inch of rain). The pool does require a robot cleanup after wards and sometimes requires small adjustments in acidity etc. but is a much smaller price to pay. Now if I could just find some really cheap energy for off season pool heating……
California is now the poorest per capita state in the union. As usuall, the every man in the state will freeze in the winter and roast in the summer because they cannot afford a 25000 dollar solar system. It’s one way to get people to leave and not come here. What’s that sound? It’s business leaving .
Thanks to everyone for the comments and questions. I’ve been driving all day, since shortly after posting this essay, and I’m a bit burned out. I’ll do my best to answer questions tomorrow. Typos pointed out by Ric Werme have been fixed.
Thanks Anthony! I too use–solar–an off the grid house in Utah and grid tie in Arizona–Hate the grid tie and if I had understood how rigid the rules are (no back up allowed) I would not have taken the subsidy from the power company and I would have done an off the grid system. I’ll never make that mistake again. .
What I find hilarious is that my mother and brothers who both believe hook line and sinker in GW–have a huge carbon footprint and ridicule me for reading this blog! funny how I walk like they talk!
@ur momisugly RACookPE1978 says: How did you get away with not needing a DC controller? They are almost as expensive as an inverter, and are equally likely to fail/cause system interference, and “humming” in the area.
RA–you are right, you do not need a charge controller when grid tied because you are not controlling the charge to the batterys.
@ur momisugly bw says: Essentially, you are paying for 12 years of electrical usage up front. Estimating a 20 year life span for the system, you will be getting 8 years of free electricity. That is, 20 years of grid electric costs you $40000, but you will pay only 25000.
bw–It is even more than this–actually as electricity skyrockets, you don’t have to worry a lick about it because you trade the current–so it is actually an insurance policy on electrical use, which I think will pay off for Anthony in a big way–it already has for me.
@ur momisugly Richard Sharpe says: Wouldn’t have been simpler to move to Oregon?
You have GOT to be joking! Oregon is as bad if not worse than California in regulations and goofy policies that drive away business, punish the producers, and make you wonder what universe you woke up in.
They are the ones considering charging every car owner BY THE MILE for a surtax because they aren’t making enough on gas because of the higher MPG cars! No forget Oregon. Bad Bad Bad.
Willis Eschenbach says:
Jeff Alberts says: “Apart from grammatical errors, very nice and informative post.”
Now that’s just throwing mud and hoping it will stick, and it’s unpleasant behavior. Either tell us what errors, where, or don’t bring it up. w.
“I doubt there’s anyone reading this entry that pays 93 cents per kilowatt-hour to keep their home cool in summer.” …who pays 93 cents… …to keep his home…
“Here’s a few FAQs.” Here are …
.
93 cents/kw-hr is criminal. Down here in Houston we just set the thermostat at 86° to keep the bills down.
We’ve also deregulated power, so the company that generates the juice and owns the lines and meters is not the company that collects the money, and therefore has no incentive to spend the bucks to install smart meters. The company I pay the money to knows I’d jump to one of the other sixteen providers if it tried to jack up rates the way PG&E has. Big win for everyone. Free market competition does that.
I recall that California tried to deregulate electricity once, but kept some controls in place, so the program was a failure.
The mounting of the panels close to the roof surface limits convective cooling. The “tracks” obstruct convection in the natural direction. Convective cooling becomes important when temperature rise, especially under full sun. Output will be substantially lower at cell temperatures in excess of 60⁰C. The PV cells will get hotter than the shingles on the roof. Not only does efficiency decline, cell life does as well.
Also, the roof slope looks too shallow to give maximum solar output, even in summer, were that section South-facing.
I totally understand that the installation was done on a cost-sensitive basis. The necessary Engineering to mount PV optimally onto such a roof is not only technically expensive, but bureaucratically onerous.
BTW: The effectiveness of refrigerated airconditioning systems can be increased, especially in drier climates, by having the condensor in chilled water instead of hot air; the chilled water being provided via a “cooling tower”. Access to evaporable water is of course essential. (The chilled-water circuit would be sealed and not necessarily even be water.)
P.S.: PV panels are rated under 1-sun … 1kW/m². Depending on location and atmospheric conditions, you could be receiving about 20% more in summer. (TOA insolation is 1.3kW/m² ± a smidgen.) The panels can therefore produce more power than rated, if you manage to keep them cool.
So don’t think you can’t do any better when the panels are producing only their rated output power. You can turn the dial past 11. 😉
I live in Madison, Wisconsin in 1800 sq ft on one level above grade. I air condition the house. I have a Carrier central air unit rated at 13 SEER and 29,000 BTU/Hr nominal capacity (about 2.5 “ton”).
National Weather Service Green Bay showed July 2012 with a monthly average temperature of 79.4 deg-F with 13 days of average temp above 80 deg-F. Two days had an average over 90 deg-F.
Monthly electric use — 440 kWHr. Average daily use — 14.2 kWHr. Monthly electric bill — $80.
I don’t have your peak temps of 110, but you don’t have my high dew point temps (i.e. high summer humidity).
My secret? My “base electric use” is about 150 kWHr/month. I use a programmable thermostat to try to run the AC more at night to cool the house down. The AC is much more efficient when the outside temps are lower, never mind your peaking rate plan. I use a humidity gauge and allow the inside temp to get as hot as 80 during the late afternoon and early evening, but with 40 percent humidity, a person is comfortable in t-shirt and shorts. I turn the AC up at bedtime so I can sleep.
Does anyone have experience with “white roof” shingles or coatings? That may be a somewhat cheaper “low-tech” answer to the sun beating down and paying 93 cents/kWHr so as to not melt in your house.
Arguing to the extreme, if everyone copied your idea in a short time, the power companies would have to raise supply costs or go broke. Part way to that extreme, can’t you expect your prices to rise as more people adopt? This assumes that most people lack your knowledge and most people will buy more than the PV unit produces, thus trowing forward planning by the utility into uncertain territory.
Anthony
In Maryland, we just converted to smart meters and the BGE web site has a similar usage graph.
The graphs show my use, the average use and an energy efficient home use.
I found a glaring problem with this comparison. According to the web site, the houses that were compared to mine, were not similar.
My house is 3400 Sq Ft and 4 occupants. The houses they compared mine to were 2400 sq ft.and 3 occupants. That’s a huge difference, especially if the occupants include teens who use a lot of hot water. Also, the site does not take into account daytime occupancy. Stay at home moms or parents that work from home like us.
The BGE site allowed me to change the size and the occupants. I waited two full billing cycles and no change. The BGE site still compared my 3400sq ft. 4 occupant house to a 2400, 3 occupant house.
Whats even more strange is that they compared my house to homes 13 miles away, instead of the hundreds of similar homes within 2 miles.
It would be interesting to come up with a survey to figure out if my experience is unique.
It begs the question, is the comparison purposely skewed to exaggerate the typical electrical consumption?
.
Geoff Sherrington says:
March 23, 2013 at 8:31 pm
Arguing to the extreme, PGE dang well should go broke, and all of their executives should be sentenced to jail for doing their best to RAISE energy prices and to DISCOURAGE energy use …
And given that as a background, I fear that there’s no logical argument that makes any sense. When the system itself is crazy, what is a sane response? When the monopolistic powers that be are doing their best to screw the customer in every way possible, what is ethical behavior for the customers?
w.