An update on my solar power project – results show why I got solar power for my home (hint: climate change is not a reason)

My home solar
Solar panels on my home in California

UPDATE: I’ve answered questions from commenters below in the FAQs, and added additional diagrams – Anthony

Much to the chagrin of people who are sure I’m evil, in the pocket of big oil, and highly carbon positive, I’m actually an independent and pretty energy efficient guy, and I challenge any of my detractors to show their solar and energy efficiency projects. Put your money where your mouthpiece is, I say. For example, do loud climate campaigners Joe Romm and Bill McKibben have solar power on their homes? Do Jim Hansen and Michael Mann have solar power while telling us we all must cut back our energy usage linked to fossil fuels? Inquiring minds want to know.

Readers may recall last summer that I put up my third solar power project, my first being on my older home, then a large 125KW solar project I started as Trustee for the Chico Unified School District. My third project is doing quite well, and a number of readers have asked for an update on my original article as they are considering doing what I have done. This being the day of the electricity denying “Earth Hour”, I thought it would be a good day to write about how I’m beating my electric bill. You see, while many tout the supposed CO2 saving properties of solar panels, my impetus is entirely different: I’m hedging against California’s exorbitant green-driven utility rates.

For example, see below from my bill last year when temperatures went up in the summer, and tell me if where you live you come anywhere close to paying what I do.

PGE_rate_july22-23-2012

Above: my actual rate and costs from last summer June-July 2012.

Thanks to PG&E’s new smart-meter system, they can now gouge me more efficiently and on schedule, when I need electricity to keep cool the most. I doubt there’s anyone reading this entry that pays 93 cents per kilowatt-hour to keep their home cool in summer.

I (along with millions of others in California) pay what I call a “location tax” due to my living in California’s Sacramento Valley, where summer temperatures regularly hit and exceed 100F. The majority of California’s population, living along the coast, don’t see temperatures anywhere near that, and thus don’t have similar air conditioning issues.

PGE_weather_june-july-2012

And, with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) running amok with cap-and-trade regulation frenzy, with refusal of coal and nuclear energy, relying on green wind power mostly for the future, combined with a looming national Carbon Tax, finding a way to generate your own electricity is in my opinion, the best hedge against future cost increases. Climate concerns don’t even rate with me on this issue, I’m thinking more about my financial future and the health and comfort of my family, and that’s why I got a solar system – it’s a hedge against the green energy and climate madness.

Here’s how I beat the green menace and PG&E.

Remember back in December when climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann was so out of touch that he couldn’t even conceive that I could do calendars for myself (I sent him a  free one), but instead it must have been some nefariously funded production? Well, he probably can’t conceive of how I put up my own solar system either, since like the Josh Calendars, I did it using COSTCO and some sweat equity.

Here’s a few FAQs.

1. Did “big oil” or some other entity pay you to do this?

No.

Did you use government grants to do this? No. Did you get money from the WUWT tip jar or calendar sales to do this? No.

So how did you pay for this? Simple. I took out a low-interest loan against my savings account the contents of which was then converted to a certificate of deposit spanning five years. I’ll have the solar system paid for in five years, and the CD will be free at that time. Then I’ll have a solar system and my savings principal intact plus I’ll get interest on the certificate of deposit. Basically I’m trading my PG&E electric bill for a financing bill for five years.

How much did it cost?  About $25,000 and change, fully installed, plus shipping and tax on the hardware portion.

2. Why didn’t you get one of those “no money down” solar systems being advertised today?

I’m borrowing and adapting a popular credit card slogan to best explain this: “ownership has its advantages”. I looked into several of these other plans, and when I penciled out the entire scheme, it didn’t make much financial sense, and at the end of the lease, I either had to buy the system at “fair market value” (to be determined) or they come and remove the system. And given the number of solar company bankruptcy/failures out there (think Solyndra), I was concerned that I’d be straddled with a system that was orphaned due to the company going out of business and the debt purchased by some holding company, who could then argue that previous contracts were “null and void” due to such bankruptcy and “oh, by the way here’s your new payment schedule”. When you want to control your own destiny, relying on others is not a safe bet.

3. Grid-tied or battery storage?

It is a grid-tied system. Battery storage systems really don’t make any sense for a city dweller, as they are primarily off-the-grid type applications where you need independent power 24/7. This was primarily a financial consideration, not a power security one.

4. Did you get any government rebates?

No, there was a PG&E rebate program, which put about $1200 (based on my system size) back in my pocket, but as I said earlier, I got no government money related to this. There will be some small tax advantages for me.

5. Does it make any noise or heat?

No, the inverters are essentially silent, except for one small fan. The inverters do make some waste heat, but they are mounted outside, and not an issue. The solar panels actually help keep the house a bit cooler, as they absorb sunlight for a good portion of the roof space, which otherwise would have gone to heating the attic.

6. Has it saved you money?

Yes, absolutely. More details follow.

7. How does your power bill work now?

We get a quarterly summary showing our electric use/surplus, and a year-end “true up” bill to balance any difference. We still have to pay for natural gas usage separately.

8. How big is it? How much power?

36 panels, of 250watts each, for a maximum DC output of 9000 watts (9KW). Of course that’s under optimal sun angle and atmospheric conditions, and with DC to AC power conversion loss, the real max is closer to 6500 watts of AC power. Typical days run anywhere from 4500-5500 KW at peak sun. I opted for the better monocrystalline (blue color) panels rather than the polymorphous (brownish) solar panels as they are more efficient and longer lasting.

9. (added) How soon do you expect to be able to pay back your investment?

If I assume a linear payback rate, it would be about 12 years. However, I think it will be closer to 9 years based on my estimates of what the future holds. First, a look at recent rates by state:

us average residential electric rates

Source: http://www.pacificpower.net/about/rr/rpc.html

Now, look at the forecast for residential electricity prices. It isn’t linear.

residential_electric_forecast

Source: US Department of Energy

10. (added) What is your cost of capital?

The way my loan is setup, guaranteed against a certificate of deposit earning interest, the APR works out to 0.8%. Over 5 years, that works out to be $511.66 for the cost of the loan.

11. (added) How does the mounting system affect your roof integrity? Will you get leaks?

The installation was guaranteed to be leak free, and after this winter rains, I can testify to that. The way the roof mount works, the screws used to secure the rack support post are put under a metal “flashing” cone, and screwed in with a sealant applied to the screw threads. This guarantees that there’s no rain penetration because the flashing not only prevents the screws from getting rain in the first place, the flashing acts just like another shingle. Here’s a diagram I prepared showing how it works:

home_solar_UNIRAC1

See a descriptive animation here: http://www.unirac.com/video/animations/solarmount-i/index.html

12. Why didn’t you go with larger panels (like the 300 watt panels of the same size).

Because the volume pricing COSTCO had arranged (at that time) did not offer that size. Adding my 2% COSTCO rebate combined with the lower overall cost made the 250watt panels a no-brainer.

Specs on the panels are here: pdf_icon.png GRAPE SOLAR 250W MONO PDF

13. How was the system shipped?

It arrived by truck as two large pallets, plus a third long package of rails. I stored these in my garage, unpacked them, and hauled the shipping materials to my office dumpster.

14. What about possible hail damage?

The rated impact resistance: hail diameter of 28mm (1.1″) with speed of 86km/h. (53mph)

These panels are really tough. My installer says you can drop them from the roof onto the concrete and they’ll survive just fine (he’s done it by accident more than once). here is a video and a news item that suggests the panels are tougher than the roofing.

News item: 

Surprisingly little damage to rooftop solar panels

The epic hailstorm did surprisingly little damage to the tens of thousands of pricey solar-power arrays built on metro Phoenix rooftops in recent years.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20110930biz-hailstorm1002solar.html

======================

Purchasing the system

As I mentioned, I used COSTCO to buy the entire hardware system. They resell from a  company in Oregon called “Grape Solar“. Here’s their largest package:

COSTCO_Solar5KW

I actually wanted more power than that, so I contacted Grape Solar directly, described my needs, showed my house roof plan and power bills, and they came up with a custom design for me at no charge. Here’s the line item summary of what I bought:

grape_solar_list

I did a lot of research on this system, and found it was well designed and likely to live up to its claims, 8 months in, so far so good.

NOTE: Detailed instructions on how to order your own system from COSTCO follow at the end of this article.

Here’s links to manuals (PDF) on the items above:

I particularly like the Kaco Blue Planet DC to AC PV inverters, which are compact, quiet, efficient, and good-looking to boot. Here they are (5000 watt and 3500 watt models) on the side of my home with the PG&E SmartMeter. DC power comes in at the conduit from the solar panels at top right, AC power exits at bottom left in the curved conduit to junction box to tie into my AC mains breaker box.

solar home grid tie inverters

=======================

Installing the solar system

While I “could” have done the entire installation myself, having mad electric and electronic skills, I opted to have someone experienced in this particular technology do it for me. The Grape Solar company contact gave me a list of certified installers in the area, and I called each of them up and asked them questions. The guy who held up under my intense questioning (A fellow in Redding named Baran Galocy) got the job.  For some of the installers, I knew more than they did, never a good sign. Choose wisely.

Plus, this fellow was willing to work with me to trade some sweat equity for a lower installation cost. Since a good portion of time is spent in transport, unpacking, staging, and disposal of packaging, I opted to perform those tasks in sync with his job schedule to save labor time and thus money. Check with an installer you might choose to see if they will do the same for you.

Permits, of course are required. The first step was getting a city work permit, so that the city could get their “cut”. I say this because their inspection was total BS, the inspector never opened a panel box or climbed on the roof to inspect panels. He was most interested in whether mandated warning labels like this below (to protect the stupid) were properly applied. Your mileage in your city may vary. Fortunately the installer handled getting these, keeping my blood pressure down.

IMAG0283

The next step was to put up the UNIRAC mounting system on the roof:

UNIRAC_install

This took about three partial work days to complete, since only mad dogs and Englishmen work on rooftops in the midday summer sun. Here it is completed:

UNIRAC_completed

The next step was placing and securing panels, while doing base panel wiring:

securing_home_solar_panels

Note the ladder contraption at the right. This is carpet remnants secured to ladder and rooftop. Shown in red to the left of the ladder is a nylon rope hawser with clips I designed that allows the man on top to pull up the panels while I push from below. This saves your back, plus virtually eliminates the possibility of dropping them and/or an injurious fall. The carpet prevents the panels from being scratched or damaged while they are pulled up.

This paneling operation took about two partial work days to complete.

Finally, the last step was to hang the inverters on the outside wall and to finish all the interconnect wiring. which took about another day.

Waiting for the city building inspector and for PG&E to “approve” the installation for grid connect took far longer than the actual installation. Then I discovered that PG&E changed one of their forms in the middle of the process, and we had to re-do the paperwork. While the install was competed in August, we didn’t actually get the final connect and switchover to net metering until December. Ain’t bureaucracy grand? I was just unlucky, you can figure about 2-4 weeks in most cases.

==========================

Results!

Here is a photo of my SmartMeter running today at about 940AM:

home_solar_meter 3-23-13

The 5.01 kW reading is my instantaneous generation, note at the right side it says “Received”. If I am using more power than I generate (or it is nighttime) that will switch to say “Delivered”. So now as I’m writing this, I’m 5kW net positive at my home.

At the top, in the big numbers is the summation of Kilowatt-hours over the lifetime of the meter. When the meter is delivered, it is set to read 00000. If I am using more electricity than I generate, it will show a net positive value (i.e 00234) if I have generated more electricity than I used, it will go backwards from 99999 and as this shows I’m at 99340, leaving a surplus of 660 Kilowatt-hours since the system was switched over in December. most of December and January was fairly overcast here, so my biggest gains have been recent, as shown in my SmartMeter summary online (highlighted in Yellow), I’ve now surpassed energy-efficient homes in my area:

PGE_home_solar_compare

My usage has gone negative:

home_solar_usage_feb2013

home_solar_usage_Mar2013

Nice to see the money flowing to me too, here’s my quarterly bill:

home_solar_PGE_bill_feb2013

Unfortunately, I still have to pay all those taxes and fees amounting to $4.66, even though I’m a net generator rather than a consumer, but I’ll take the deal.

================

How this works

The strategy is simple, generate/save as much electricity as you can during non-summer months, bank it (as shown on the meter) and then draw against that bank of generated energy during the summer or when you need power. Hopefully at the end of the true-up period, I’ll end up with surplus, in which case PG&E is now mandated by state law to send me a check. Amazingly, it didn’t used to be that way, and they were getting free surplus electricity.

If at the end of the true-up period, I used electricity, I pay for that then. Since I’m able to watch usage online and on the SmartMeter, it should be manageable to ensure we come out ahead (unless we have an extended heat wave). No matter what though, we are pretty much free of the tyranny of the 90 cents per kilowatt-hour in the summer when tiered rates kick in to punish us valley dwellers.

More info on the net metering program is here: http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/solarupgrade/index.page

=========================

Do you want one for yourself? Here’s how you can help yourself and help me in the process.

Since I’ve done all the work of documenting the process, the Grape Solar Company has agreed to offer me a finders fee for anyone who purchases a similar system through them via COSTCO. Here’s how to do it:

1. Contact Steve Bouton or Garret Towne at Grape Solar via telephone or by email:

Grape Solar, Inc. 1305 South Bertelsen Road, Eugene, Oregon 97402

Tel: 541.349.9000  Fax: 541.343.9000

Email: steven.bouton “at” grapesolar.com or garret.towne “at” grapesolar.com

2. Tell them you read this article, give them my name so they will credit me.

3. Give them your details, they will design a system to suit your needs free of charge. They’ll need your address, description of your view of the sky to the south (sometimes visible on Google Earth) plus your goals for electricity saving, (full replacement, supplemental, add as you go, etc.). Arrange financing if need be – note how I used my local bank to finance a loan against my savings account for a win-win.

4. Grape Solar will set you up with a custom order you can place on COSTCO.com that will include everything you will need. Then contact an installer. They’ll also supply a list of installers in your area if you don’t wish to do the work yourself. As I mentioned, you may be able to do some work yourself to help the installer to save money. Be sure to ask.

5. You’ll make the order with COSTCO, either you’ll need a credit card with a high limit or you’ll have to wire the money to COSTCO (which is what I did). BE SURE TO ASK TO HAVE YOUR COSTCO MEMBERSHIP NUMBER APPLIED TO THE SALE. This will ensure that if you have an account that gives you a rebate for year total purchases, you’ll get that year-end 2% cash back. 2% of a $20K system is $400, well worth the effort!

6. You have your installer get work permits and do the paperwork with your local utility company – this is key. Without these being done right, you are dead in the water. make sure your installer will do these for you.

7. Install the system – get it inspected and turned on. Submit final paperwork to your local utility company for any rebate programs they may have.

8. Keep all your paperwork for tax time – you may be eligible for tax credits – check with your tax preparer.

9. Enjoy a lower or zero power bill

============================

I hope this gives everyone who is interested the path forward. if you have questions about this please ask in comments. – Anthony

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Stephen Richards
March 24, 2013 2:14 pm

Peter says:
March 23, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Peter responds to Stephen 12:38pm
Nice for you Stephen, but I am on the east coast of North America 45 north, and trust me, our climates have nothing in common, other than latitude. We still have 45cm of snow on the ground, the lakes are still frozen and will be until late April, and we also get 2500 hours of sunshine but it takes 4 years.
Thanks to the N.Atalantic conveyor. heh heh

Stephen Richards
March 24, 2013 2:36 pm

JamesS says:
March 24, 2013 at 7:26 am
I find it interesting that Gavin thinks government regulation and taxation to artificially raise electricity prices and make renewables competitive are “market mechanisms.”
That’s Gavin for you. Hands in air, head up arse.

March 24, 2013 2:38 pm

Too bad I rent. 🙂

ferd berple
March 24, 2013 2:39 pm

ANthony should receive exactly the same amount for the surplus power he produces as does PG&E. If they get $.93/kwh at peak hour, then so should he, as both are selling their power to the same customers – Anthony’s neighbors.
The grid itself is runs over public land rent free. If PG&E are going to start charging Anthony to use the grid so he can supply power to his neighbors, then it is only fair that PG&E pay property taxes on that portion of the land they use for the grid, thereby reducing the share of property taxes that Anthony and his neighbors are paying. As things are now the taxpayers are subsidizing the power companies by making land available for free to run their power lines, while everyone else must pay for the land they own/rent to run a business.

OssQss
March 24, 2013 2:40 pm

Nice Job Anthony!
I just received notice of a price increase today for our power. Why is that I wondered, and I found my answer here in the April addition.
http://www.preco.org/mediaNews/PRECO_florida_currents_magazine.aspx
Thanks ” EPA” for the avalanche of regulations.

Stephen Richards
March 24, 2013 2:53 pm

ferd berple says:
March 24, 2013 at 9:21 am
Stephen Richards says:
March 23, 2013 at 12:26 pm
It is an inverted Robin Hood scheme and that really bugs me. However, for all those that want to game the system I say good luck. I chose not to.
===========
If we all chose to game the system it would collapse
Fred I like your scheme and it had occured to me but the payback time where I live (SW France) would far exceed the amount of time I have left on this planet. A local farmer has found the right idea. He installed €186.000 of panels on his barns and gets a return of about €26.000 per year. In france you cannot use any electricity generated on your roof. In effect, EDF rent your roof and pay a return based on generated electricity. It’s a great investment but it is crippling EDF (electricité de France). Their cashflow is dangerously low (they claim) so they have offered to build a new nuclear station for the brits but only if the brits give them double the tarif for ever. Increased cashflow will result.

Luther Wu
March 24, 2013 2:55 pm

The bottom line is that PG&E rate payers are being pushed into making the capital investments to provide themselves with electricity, which is what the utility was chartered to provide, but isn’t.

Stephen Richards
March 24, 2013 2:56 pm

Lisa Knobel says:
March 24, 2013 at 1:43 pm
The true measure of the effectiveness of any electricity producing installation is capacity factor. While you may be saving on your electricity bill, is it really the most efficient and effective way to produce electricity. Have you been able to calculate your capacity factor yet?
It doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is are your electricity bills lower and by how much. Yes, if PV was more efficient your payback time would be shorter but so what.

Stephen Richards
March 24, 2013 2:58 pm

JG says:
March 24, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Have you factored in the cost of replacing the batteries and your likely resale value?

farguard
March 24, 2013 3:04 pm

I installed an 88 panel system for my home in Puerto Rico in the 1990s, using recycled panels from a defunct solar utility plant somewhere is CA or AZ. We were entirely off the grid, until some years later when we became friends with a local utility company executive. And even then, as we were on the top of a mountain near the East coast, wind and other power outages caused frequent interruptions. I used Royce (submarine) lead acid batteries, 2x Trace 4KW inverters, and a LOT of lightning arresting diodes and other preventative electronics.
After we got utility power, the system really proved itself after hurricane Hortence. 1/3 of the panels were destroyed, and the whole mountain (and all of our neighbors) was without power for 5 weeks. We were the sole source of ice for food preservation for the whole neighborhood. I was overseas on a long-term advisory assignment at the time, but my non-electrical wife was able to use our shoe-box sized cell phone to talk to me and cut the correct wires. No other maintenance (other than topping off the batteries with rainwater and sweeping hurricane blown leaves off of the solar cells) was required until I got back some weeks later.
So the most value, in my opinion, is that the solar owner is more likely to have power after a large destructive event, where his utility dependent peers will not. And this insurance mostly pays for itself.
Conrad Clark

Richard deSousa
March 24, 2013 3:45 pm

PG&E = Pacific Graft & Extortion!

u.k.(us)
March 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Lisa Knobel says:
March 24, 2013 at 1:43 pm
=======
It is hard to tell if you are kidding, or not.
Anthony, is just playing by the rules of the game.

Robert F
March 24, 2013 3:46 pm

Lisa Knobel says:
March 24, 2013 at 1:43 pm
“The true measure of the effectiveness of any electricity producing installation is capacity factor. While you may be saving on your electricity bill, is it really the most efficient and effective way to produce electricity. Have you been able to calculate your capacity factor yet?”
The question of capacity factor is irrelevant. Obviously, the factor for solar is low, and solar is far from the most effective way to produce electricity. The issue here is clearly one of finance, and whether solar provided a higher return on investment than other options available to the homeowner. In Anthony’s case, it was a sound financial investment.
“Additionally, since you are running a commerical operation on your property will you be paying the appropriate property taxes and income taxes? And, certainly those income taxes are not on just the excess income you receive back, but on all of the electricity costs you have offset. Until you have figured these in, your analysis is woefully incomplete.”
You are making a lot of false assumptions here. No, it is not “a commercial operation”. And no, there is no tax on electricity not used. In fact, even smart meters cannot distinguish what is being used internally from what is being produced. While there is a production meter, that is not monitored by the utility.
Finally, your analysis is the one that is “woefully incomplete”. If this were in fact a commercial, taxed operation, one could write off the depreciation and probably make out quite well.

Ian H
March 24, 2013 4:00 pm

With a name like “Watts”, it isn’t surprising that you should be doing clever and interesting things with electrical power. New Scientist calls this “nominative determinism”.
OK I confess. I do read New Scientist from time to time. I do like the humour section. New Scientist are completely credulous and perpetually alarmed about absolutely everything, not just climate. They are particularly fond of predicting the destruction of the universe (perhaps due to runaway cosmological inflation or a nefarious plot masterminded by Boltzmann brains). I only get it to look at the pictures of pretty girls. Honest!
(If you don’t get the pretty girls reference I apologise for engaging in overly subtle humour.)

rogerknights
March 24, 2013 4:16 pm

Tom in Florida says:
March 24, 2013 at 6:10 am
I see many comments about rates, kw usage, house size, location and such. I do not see anyone addressing a couple of simple but important things one can easily do to lower their electric bills.

I made three suggestions similar in spirit to yours, at http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/23/an-update-on-my-solar-power-project-results-show-why-i-got-solar-power-for-my-home-hint-climate-change-is-not-a-reason/#comment-1255309 and at the comment two items down.

Jimbo
March 24, 2013 4:26 pm

Anthony Watts,
Are you or have you ever been a recipient of Big Solar Money? Are you a fossil fuel benefit denier? / sarc

Editor
March 24, 2013 4:30 pm

John Bromhead says:
March 24, 2013 at 11:34 am

All this is a load of bull.

Thanks, John. One thing I’m learning by writing for the web is, never, ever make an absolute statement … you like the inherent contradiction in that statement? But it’s true.
For example, in this case, some of what Anthony has written is just facts and descriptions. So obviously, that’s not bull. As a result, your claim that all of this is bull is automatically false … and that’s not a good thing to open your comment with.

Yes, some can save by installing solar. Here in Australia the savings are made by transferring the costs of running the electricity supply system ( all those costs that are independent of the cost of generating electricity and the losses bringing it to your home) on to those who depend totally on grid electricity. Systems have also be subsidised by up to $600 per megawatthour of electricial energy they will produce over 20 years. Those with solar pay less for the grid they rely on all the time. Few people living where grid power is available will choose to operate independently of the grid because they can parasitize it as Anthony Watts does.

Here in California, in what can only be described as a fit of terminal idiocy, the anti-carbon crowd have put in place a law that says that PG&E has to get 33% of its energy from renewable sources by 2020. Madness. Not only that, but they don’t count hydroelectric power from existing hydroelectric power plants as renewable! Double madness.
As a result, PGE has been forced to sign all kinds of very, very disadvantageous contracts for the supply of their power. And PGE, of course, then have to pass those costs on to their customers. As a result, the rates for everyone around the state are going up to support the green madness. This is not a result of Anthony. It’s the law. So PGE are forced to look for people like Anthony so that PGE can obey the law and get to 33% by 2020.
That’s the reality on the ground. The consumer is getting screwed to support the green fantasies of renewable energy.
Obviously, there’s only two positions a man could play in that game. You can be one of the consumers getting screwed, or you could be one of the suppliers of expensive renewable energy.
Let me put it to you plainly. Anthony deciding that he’s tired of getting screwed doesn’t make him a parasite.

The question Anthony should ask is what would happen if everyone, households and industry, took the same percentage of supply from their own generation while still relying on the grid that supplements their supply and into which thet sell their excess electricity.

It sounds like you think you know the answer to that question … perhaps you could enlighten us.
All the best,
w.

Lil Fella from OZ
March 24, 2013 4:31 pm

Here is a different slant on solar. I run about 800 watts of panles, batteries and inverter. Yes, I am on mains. I tinker a bit. Batteries are a huge downfall when it comes to solar. Cost and endurance, efficiency etc. I also turn my panels into the sun three or four times a day, just like moving the garden hose.
Now the plus side is I have some 240v AC or 12 DC power available if the mains goes off! My reckoning was that the way they were mishandling power there will be some shortfalls in the future. And I don’t live in the UK. Plus big brother has no say on my set up!
What I try to do is do my washing and run the refrigerator for 12-14 hours a day. In the hot weather that become quite a bit because of the inefficient refrigerators of the modern day.
I was looking to knock about 10 or 12 % off my power bill. I have achieved that. And I am in control!
In Australia many grid tie inverters installed are of the cheap variety. There will be replacement costs.
Remember nothing is free and panels have a used by date. That is going to be interesting for the greens to decide how best to get rid of them!!!
Rupert

Allencic
March 24, 2013 4:37 pm

I’ve done the numbers for our home in far northern california (near the Oregon border) and there simply is no way that solar makes any sense for me. If it works for you Anthony that’s great. One argument I’ve never heard is from the days in the forties and fifties when it looked like nuclear electricity generation was going to be the future of energy. It wasn’t merely wild speculation when the propopnents of nuclear power would say, “It will be too cheap to bother metering.” That may be a slight exaggeration but it could be close to true. It is one of the the great tragedies of modern life that nuclear was used to make a bomb before it became common to use nuclear for energy. Instead, thanks to Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and the movie “The China Syndrome”, we’re wasting time, money an research skills on crap like solar, wind, etc. And the environmentalists are doing they’re best (and suceeding) to convince everyone to hate oil, natural gas, fracking, coal and carbon dioxide. A totally sad and stupid result. I don’t remember who said it, W. C. Fields or P. T. Barnum maybe but “you’ll never go broke underestimating the stupidity and gullibility of the public.”

Doug Badgero
March 24, 2013 5:11 pm

w.e. said:
“Let me put it to you plainly. Anthony deciding that he’s tired of getting screwed doesn’t make him a parasite.
The question Anthony should ask is what would happen if everyone, households and industry, took the same percentage of supply from their own generation while still relying on the grid that supplements their supply and into which thet sell their excess electricity.
It sounds like you think you know the answer to that question … perhaps you could enlighten us.”
Willis, I agree with most of what you said prior to this section. I take issue with the policies, but I live and make decisions in the real world. I have spent all of my life generating electricity for a living. I work for AEP but speak for myself.
Under the existing structures, anyone who net meters is using the utilities capital assets but not paying the capital and O&M costs to build and maintain those assets. Even if you generate more energy than you use, you are still using the utilities generation and distribution system as an energy slush fund. It is not an economically sustainable business plan for the owners of the utility assets.

u.k.(us)
March 24, 2013 5:13 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
March 24, 2013 at 4:30 pm
====
Umm,
Ain’t that the truth.
You get these gifted writers that can turn a sentence/comment anyway they want, it tends to bring out a precise writing style.

March 24, 2013 5:55 pm

Greetings Anthony,
Thank you for a well researched and factual documentary website on photovoltaics. I am pleased that your Grape photovoltaic system has served you so well that you were \motivated to share this information with others. As an installer, my word is sometimes suspect because, clearly, I stand to make a profit from a client who buys a system from me, and even from someone who simply hires me for my installation expertise. Your information will serve a great deal of people in a positive manner.
Best Regards – Baran Galocy
HelioElectric

OverlookedSavings
March 24, 2013 6:07 pm

Ian H: “I only get it (New Scientist) to look at the pictures of pretty girls. Honest! ”
I believe you!
http://www.businessinsider.com/female-physicists?op=1
And my favorite is:
http://blog.physicsworld.com/2011/02/18/talking-particle-physics/

markx
March 24, 2013 6:19 pm

John Bromhead says: March 24, 2013 at 11:34 am
All this is a load of bull. Yes, some can save by installing solar. Here in Australia the savings are made by transferring the costs of running the electricity supply system ( all those costs that are independent of the cost of generating electricity and the losses bringing it to your home) on to those who depend totally on grid electricity. Systems have also be subsidised by up to $600 per megawatthour of electricial energy they will produce over 20 years. Those with solar pay less for the grid they rely on all the time. Few people living where grid power is available will choose to operate independently of the grid because they can parasitize it as Anthony Watts does.
The question Anthony should ask is what would happen if everyone, households and industry, took the same percentage of supply from their own generation while still relying on the grid that supplements their supply and into which thet sell their excess electricity.

Well, John, is this not the very result they (think) they want? Less fossil fuel burn, less carbon output, more expensive electricity so we will all use less. And the poor can help by using none at all!
Anthony is simply managing his own costs to the best of his ability in an ill-thought out, flawed, misguided system. Your “noble” approach to the faulty system is actually very likely more an indication of personal inertia than of someone doing the right thing by his fellow man.
It sure ain’t bull, and it sure ain’t Anthony’s fault.

Lil Fella from OZ
March 24, 2013 6:34 pm

There are a number of problems in Australia, mostly driven by green propaganda as if renewables are the answer to the world’s electricity. John probably came off the background of this to make a couple of very rash and outlandish statements.
For example, one I know for a fact was that wind generators had been tied in by governments to contracts stating that wind must have priority over fossil fuel power. This sort of thing has forced power prices up.
Then there were governments paying solar users up to three times the regular price per kilowatt for feed in tariffs. Again this helped force the average person’s electricity bill skywards. Those who didn’t have solar we feeling a bit done in (a bit cheesed off). Remember, most of the people who could have benefitted from solar panels could least afford them even with government subsidies.
One argument I have presented in this country is the cost of installation in the past. The interest on that money would make a good contribution to the household power bill. And as I have stated before panels have a use by date and then must be disposed of. Nothing is free!! Or for that matter clean.
Rupert