More turmoil at the American Physical Society over their statement on the global warming issues

American Physical Society
American Physical Society (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

I was sent this today by Roger Cohen, a respected fellow of the APS. He writes:

Dear Anthony,

Since you have previously carried items relating to the American Physical Society, I thought you might be interested in the attached.  It concerns my experience with the Society over the past three years.   The “Recollection” document explains the context of the letter of resignation from the Executive Committee of the new APS climate activity, the “Topical Group on the Physics of Climate.”   The bottom line is that we cannot have science if only one view is heard.  That is authority, not science.

On Saturday I sent the attached to some 150 of our supporters.  Thus far more than two dozen have told me that they have resigned or will resign from the APS climate activity.  A few may resign from the APS though I have discouraged that.  

– Roger Cohen

The American Physical Society and the Global Warming Question

A Personal Recollection

It is in the admission of ignorance and the admission of uncertainty that there is a hope for the continuous motion of human beings in some direction that doesn’t get confined, permanently blocked, as it has so many times before in various periods in the history of man.” – Richard Feynman

The accompanying open letter concerns an episode in the ongoing debate over the largest scientific question of our age – anthropogenic global warming. But the debate is really about the conduct of science itself, and the scientific process that has been put together by important thinkers and practitioners over the centuries.

The scientific process relies on the collection of observational evidence and the development, verification, and falsification of predictive theories. It also relies on free inquiry and free exchange of information between scientists, and on the freedom to debate the scientific evidence. Without these freedoms, science can become as corrupt as the worst of human institutions. It can be bureaucratic, engage in the suppression of dissent, attempt to speak with the authority of a single voice, and, perhaps worst of all, become the willing tool of political interests in exchange for the promise of support, just like any other special interest. Trofim Lysenko’s hijacking and corruption of biology in the old Soviet Union and the eugenics experience of the 20th century are warnings of how science can “go rogue.”

With this backdrop, it is understandable that one of the most discouraging developments to emerge from the global warming question has been the co-opting of some American scientific societies, and indeed the National Academy of Sciences, by those intent on broadcasting climate alarm and on suppressing the dissemination of opposing scientific evidence. The American Geophysical Union and the American Meteorological Society have shed their traditional roles as supporters of science inquiry in favor of out and out advocacy. It is also widely known that scientists seeking to publish opposing scientific evidence experience great difficulty getting papers published in journals sponsored by these societies and others.

However the American Physical Society (APS) – the second largest society of physicists in the world, and my “home society” – had stopped short of this level of shrill advocacy and bias. Physicists, perhaps more broadly trained in their relatively mature field and having a somewhat broader perspective than some other science practitioners, might be expected to adopt a more hands off stance when it comes declaring a complex and difficult science question “settled.” And indeed this was the case…until the 2007 Statement on Climate Change was issued.

So the story leading to the letter begins with the development and approval of the APS Statement. There is evidence that the process itself that produced the Statement was at least highly questionable if not downright illegitimate. It is known that a small group of individuals, not satisfied with the degree of alarm contained in the original draft produced by the officially charged committee, acted unilaterally and without authority to raise the level of alarm. A senior APS professional confides in writing that

“This [the original draft] was unfortunately changed ‘on the fly, over lunch’ by several [APS] Council members who were not pleased with the ‘mild tone’ of the drafted statement. Then the modified statement was voted on at the end of the Council meeting (probably as people were leaving to catch planes) [parentheses original].”

The overwritten Statement was far more radical, containing the antiscientific phrase that angered many members and provided a focal point for member opposition: “The science is incontrovertible.” The nature of science is such that nothing is incontrovertible; and indeed its history is replete with examples of how deeply held conviction was overturned by subsequent developments. Science pioneer, inventor, and Royal Society president Sir Humphry Davy put it as follows:

“Nothing is so dangerous to the progress of the human mind than to assume that our views of science are ultimate, that there are no mysteries in nature, that our triumphs are complete and that there are no new worlds to conquer.”

Driven by concern over the Statement, in 2009 I joined a small team of APS members. We collected and submitted a petition signed by nearly 300 physicists calling for the Statement to be moderated. The signatures were gathered one-by-one and included nearly 100 Fellows of major scientific societies, 17 members of national academies, and two Nobel Laureates. A number had published major research on the global warming issue, authored books on the issue, or worked in contiguous areas of meteorology and climate. Nearly all had backgrounds in key science areas that underlie the global warming issue.

The APS response to the petition was the appointment of a committee that took months to review the 157-word Statement. Only one of the members was familiar with the climate science field, and more than one had a vested interest in continued climate alarm. The committee’s final report referred only to IPCC reports and its supporting material, and so we had the predictable outcome: not a single change to the original Statement. Thus, as is the practice of bureaucracies, a position once taken is rigidly adhered to, even when the process that produced it was flawed.

However, some 750 words were added to the Statement to try to explain what the original 157 words really meant. These explanatory words are included as the “Climate Change Commentary” of April 18, 2010 accessible at the link provided above. APS members were permitted to send in comments, but the comments were never made public. A survey was also conducted whose outcome we were told supported the Statement, but numerical results were never provided, and we know that a substantial fraction of the membership did not support it.

Disgusted with these developments, some APS members quietly resigned or let their memberships lapse. The most publicly visible of these resignations were Nobel Laureate Ivar Giaever http://www.ibtimes.com/nobel-laureate-ivar-giaever-quits-physics-group-over-stand-global-warming-313636 and distinguished APS Fellow Hal Lewis http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/1019/Climate-change-fraud-letter-a-Martin-Luther-moment-in-science-history .

Preferring to work within the Society to try to effect positive change, our group of petitioners and APS leaders of good will came to an agreement in 2010 to try to focus the discussion back where it belonged – on the science itself. Thus I joined an officially sanctioned committee to organize a new “topical group” within the APS. Bylaws were written and approved whose main characteristic was a declaration of focus on the science, and an avoidance of matters of policy, public opinion, or political views. Here is the key objective statement from the Bylaws:

“The objective of the GPC shall be to promote the advancement and diffusion of knowledge concerning the physics, measurement, and modeling of climate processes, within the domain of natural science and outside the domains of societal impact and policy, legislation and broader societal issues. The objective includes the integration of scientific knowledge and analysis methods across disciplines to address the dynamical complexities and uncertainties of climate physics.”

It was thus hoped that the disagreement among APS membership would be diverted from attack and defense of the Statement to a discussion and scientific debate of the science itself.

All well and good. But to achieve the objective, one cannot move to exclude scientists and their findings that do not support the contentions of the APS Statement. As the letter relates, that is exactly what has happened. One should not conclude from the letter that all the APS people I worked with were of the same mind and wanted to exclude scientists who do not conform to the doctrine. A few tried hard to make the process scientifically inclusive, but they were far outweighed by the dominant influence which saw no reason to be inclusive.

At the end of the day, science progress does rely on the free exchange of information between scientists who may look at what nature is telling us and interpret these revelations differently. The practical outcome of exposing all the relevant science is the determination of the path to future critical experiments and improved theories. Without the freedom to do this, we have only authority and advocacy.

As I reflect on my experience, I cannot avoid the question of whether we have passed the point of no return, whether the descent of once grand scientific societies into advocating bureaucracies and self-satisfied clubs lobbying for funds can be arrested, reversed, and integrity restored; or is what we have now a permanent feature of modern science – a postmodern distortion of the best values of the scientific tradition that has served humanity well for centuries. If it is permanent, the only alternative is the emergence of new alternative institutions that can recover what science once had. We shall see.

Roger W. Cohen

Fellow, American Physical Society

10-16-12

====================================

Dr. James G. Brasseur

Chairman, Topical Group on the Physics of Climate

American Physical Society

Dear Jim,

It has become clear that I can no longer contribute effectively to the progress of the Topical Group on the Physics of Climate (GPC) as it was originally envisioned. Therefore, I am tendering my resignation from the Topical Group and the Executive Committee.

The GPC Executive Committee has yielded to pressure from within, and from others involved in the development of GPC activities, to exclude discussion of science that does not conform to the doctrine of strong anthropogenic global warming. This disregards the desires of a substantial fraction of the membership to discuss all the relevant science. Furthermore, without having demonstrated that the fledgling GPC can actually achieve the inclusive science-focused objective set forth in the Bylaws, we are moving to explore joint activities with other societies which are completely invested in climate alarm and which will not support GPC’s objective. These developments indicate that the GPC has set a course to become yet another outlet for promoting the doctrine.

As demonstrated in the development of the inaugural GPC speakers program (to be presented in March 2013), we have effectively drawn a boundary around the science so as to substantially exclude peer-reviewed, published work that conflicts with the doctrine of strong anthropogenic global warming, regardless of a speaker’s credentials and distinguished research record. For example, one accomplished physicist, an expert on the key issue of solar variability effects on terrestrial climate, was shunted off to “back up speaker” status due to the intervention of an IPCC lead author with a demonstrable vested interest in the IPCC’s posture on the solar issue. Another proposed speaker’s peer-reviewed, published work on the integrity of the land temperature data was completely discounted because he had endorsed a public expression of religious faith and its connection with science.

While skeptics’ public statements were considered evidence of bias, there were no qualms about applying a double standard that excused doctrine supporters from such considerations. One invited speaker has ventured into public environmental advocacy for reduced meat-eating, vegetarianism, and limiting natural offspring and airplane travel. Another invitee’s public statement of opinion on a supposed human contribution to a single hurricane (Katrina) was not judged grounds for questioning his objectivity. This double standard was no accident: one member of the committee charged with choosing speakers was quite explicit about skeptics’ participation when he warned against an “argument that winds up giving more effective weight to the ‘skeptics’ over the consensus viewpoint.”

None of the proposed speakers’ expressions of belief bear on their qualifications to speak on their scientific work in climate.  The science must be considered in isolation – as science and only science.  To do otherwise is to act as thought police.  The selective application of these expressions of belief as a basis for excluding one kind of science is wrong and biases GPC activities toward support of the doctrine.

My participation in the GPC development process was the result of a grass roots petition signed by more than 200 APS members, most of whom eventually joined the GPC. I now feel compelled to inform these petitioners of the outcome so that they can make their own assessments. Also, since I have supported the GPC in public and private statements, I will be updating these statements in the future.

As you know the GPC was intended to channel strong APS member disagreement over the Society’s 2007 Statement on Climate Change into a productive scientific enterprise. But there was also a greater opportunity: to demonstrate that it is still possible to convene a forum that would present and discuss, as scientists, the broad body of climate science with all of its complexities, uncertainties, and interpretations. Alas, despite good faith efforts made by some, this opportunity appears to have been lost, and I fear that another may not come along soon.

Sincerely,

Roger W. Cohen

Fellow, APS

10-17-12

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Mark T
October 22, 2012 8:12 pm

Howskepticalment…
Do you know what an ad hominem is? I insulted you, nothing more. Look it up. It is difficult to legitimately argue another’s credibility when you cannot even get such a basic point right.
Also, do you have evidence the other 49,800 actually support the APS position? If not, the entire rest of your post is without support. As I noted, few, if any, of the 49,800 pay attention. And, to be sure, if there had even been 200 in favor that stood up to rebut those opposed, we would have heard it screamed from the rooftops. Nothing but crickets…
Mark

October 22, 2012 8:15 pm

I was surprised to see Peter Glieck’s post here but his the post was rather innocuous and non confrontational. I suggest that we treat him cordially as long as he treats us with respect. I would hope that the Heartland affair and the fallout from a certain book review have taught him a little humility in his treatment of those with ideas differing from his own.

October 22, 2012 8:16 pm

Peter Gleick says:
October 22, 2012 at 4:44 pm
Of course the science isn’t “settled” or “incontrovertible” but it sure is solid.
===============================================================
Solid? At least we can agree that it is unsettled. As far as I can see the only basis besides models for the human warming hypothesis is a 30 year correlation in trends. My personal timescale is hundreds of millions of years.
Physics? Physics is never simple. Just because CO2 in a jar will warm when irradiated with IR does not mean CO2 a complex atmosphere will behave the same way.
But let’s keep talking…

Mark T
October 22, 2012 8:26 pm

Is the APS a dictatorship of activists? Or is the leadership elected by the 50,000 – 200 = 49,800 members?

You don’t belong to any professional socieities, do you? You also don’t pay attention. Just a hint: the leadership was not elected by 49,800 members. Not that it matters, as membership in any society would not take long to clue you in to the simple fact that YES, activists do tend towards leadership positions. As I noted (apparently you can’t read) most don’t care what happens -indeed, the 49,800 were not polled, the position statement was generated by a committee. Did you miss that part, too?
Those that rise to the topof any organiztion tend to be… wait for it… the most active in the organization. Hence the name “activists.” Get it? Pretty simple, the name contains the definition. Those that are the most active tend to be drawn from the subset of those that want to make a change. In a society like the IEEE, you get “activists” that want to enhance battery technology or push for better solar panels, goals that would be in place even if pollution smelled like roses and made people re-grow lost limbs. In a societies like the APS, NAS, AAAS, you get activists that push for the only real focus of any public society, currently GW policy.
Oh, and for the record, Cohen’s argument has nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong, it is that their position statement explicitly states that the science is incontrovertible. Cohen’s argument is that such a concept does not exist in science. Any scientist that thinks this is a legitimate scientific position is wrong, period.
Mark

Hilary Ostrov (aka hro001)
October 22, 2012 8:35 pm

hro001 says: October 22, 2012 at 8:01 pm
Sorry, let me fix that first link:
Knobloch, a Pacinst ally, who proved himself to be a Gleick apologist par excellence,
Hilary Ostrov (who really, really wishes that WordPress would give commenters option to preview before posting)

Ace
October 22, 2012 8:36 pm

The only incontrovertible piece of evidence about this whole ordeal is that the fix is certainly in. If longstanding bastions of scientific principle such as APS can succumb to the AGW dogma and good folks can so easily dismiss a career that had been rooted in defending the philosophy of science, then there’s little hope for science as we once knew it. This whole thing reeks of modern day wise guys and made men, and scared shopkeepers “not seeing nuttin” and having to pay their weekly premiums for their shop’s “protection”.

Mark T
October 22, 2012 8:42 pm

Robert Austin: why? He is a fraud. He is representative of the worst elements of science. He is is exactly who Eisenhower warned us about. He should be treated like a pariah by every climate scientist, as well as onlookers, as a deterrent to those that think his behavior was/is acceptable.
Mark

davidmhoffer
October 22, 2012 8:48 pm

Howslepticalment;
Excellent, once properly informed, can we look forward to the 49,800 APS hold-outs resigning in protest?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can we look forward to a clear statement that the entire membership votes on? What the 200 signatories are complaining about is that the statements made by the APS were in fact made WITHOUT seeking broad support from the membership. Are you of the opinion that 49,800 APS members are “single issue” voters for whom the only consideration of continued membership is the APS official position? That would be rather naive wouldn’t it?
The real question is will the executive of the APS allow for an open and honest debate on the matter followed by a voting process to establish what the memebership actually believes?
If yes, have at it.
If no… what are they afraid of? The future of humanity is supposedly at stake. What harm could come from an open and honest debate followed by a democratic process to arrive at a proper representation of the society’s membership’s opinions? What does the APS executive have to fear from such a process of they are indeed committed to science?

October 22, 2012 8:53 pm

Reblogged this on The GOLDEN RULE and commented:
A meaningful condemnation of the abuse of science in connection with “global warming”. Summed up effectively by this extracted final paragraph:
“As I reflect on my experience, I cannot avoid the question of whether we have passed the point of no return, whether the descent of once grand scientific societies into advocating bureaucracies and self-satisfied clubs lobbying for funds can be arrested, reversed, and integrity restored; or is what we have now a permanent feature of modern science – a postmodern distortion of the best values of the scientific tradition that has served humanity well for centuries. If it is permanent, the only alternative is the emergence of new alternative institutions that can recover what science once had. We shall see.”

davidmhoffer
October 22, 2012 9:03 pm

Peter Gleick;
Of course the science isn’t “settled” or “incontrovertible” but it sure is solid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then by your own assertion, the APS statement should be revised.

October 22, 2012 9:08 pm

Dear Dr. Cohen
The “other” part of president Eisenhower’s farewell speech, often overlooked by those who use it as a bludgeon against our defense industry addressed exactly this issue that you now face. Here it is as he stated it 52 years ago:
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system – ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

Howskepticalment
October 22, 2012 9:10 pm

Howskepticalment…
Do you know what an ad hominem is? I insulted you, nothing more. Look it up. It is difficult to legitimately argue another’s credibility when you cannot even get such a basic point right.

Insulting a person because of a position they hold is an ad hominem attack. It is a logical fallacy.
Also, do you have evidence the other 49,800 actually support the APS position? If not, the entire rest of your post is without support. As I noted, few, if any, of the 49,800 pay attention. And, to be sure, if there had even been 200 in favor that stood up to rebut those opposed, we would have heard it screamed from the rooftops. Nothing but crickets…
Do you have any evidence that the 49,800 support Dr Cohen? There is evidence that 200 do so, but that is all.
I have been a member of various organisations and, as you rightly point out, in every case a small number of active people gravitate to the top. There are two reasons for this. Most organisations have only a small number of positions at the top. The second reason is that it is usually only a small number of people who want to involve themselves in running organisations.
In my experience, and without fail, these small groups of active people do not stay at the top in democratic organisations if they continue to espouse views that the majority of the members do not support. They get voted out.
With a head start of 200 (.4% of the vote so far), and with only another 24,801 (49.6%) members to persuade in order to get a simple majority, Mr Cohen and his supporters should be able to take over the APS in short order. Unless.of course, rightly or wrongly, the APS membership actually mostly supports AGW theory?
You appear to be arguing that the APS is run by a self-appointed and self-perpetuating oligarchy, but that is not clear to me.
BTW, you once again appear to be using emotive language and irrelevant claims: ‘…we would have heard it screamed from the rooftops…’. I have heard some real screams from time to time and I would doubt that this claim has scientific foundation. As for ‘crickets’, no self-respecting scientist would use such a term in a rational and dispassionate discussion because they would know that it detracts from their credibility.

October 22, 2012 9:15 pm

Powerful stuff!

Mark T
October 22, 2012 9:17 pm

Davidmhoffer: I wonder why they even need any position. All such positions do is further the notion that consensus serves some greater than insignificant role in science. It does not.
Mark

Howskepticalment
October 22, 2012 9:20 pm

davidmhoffer says:
October 22, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Howslepticalment;
Excellent, once properly informed, can we look forward to the 49,800 APS hold-outs resigning in protest?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can we look forward to a clear statement that the entire membership votes on? What the 200 signatories are complaining about is that the statements made by the APS were in fact made WITHOUT seeking broad support from the membership. Are you of the opinion that 49,800 APS members are “single issue” voters for whom the only consideration of continued membership is the APS official position? That would be rather naive wouldn’t it?

That is a valid point about ‘single issue’ voters. However, I would turn your proposition around a bit and put it this way: if the leadership of the APS does not reflect the substantial majority view of its members on AGW, then the leadership would not last. They would be voted out.
Bad process makes for bad policy. IMHO, in this case, there has been bad process. There should be a clear statement and the membership should have a period for discussion/debate and then should have a vote on it. In fact, I would support the idea of voting for multiple statements with the three or four main scientific positions on climate forcings, along with broad probability statements.
The real question is will the executive of the APS allow for an open and honest debate on the matter followed by a voting process to establish what the memebership actually believes?
I support your intention here and trust that Dr Cohen’s morally courageous gesture has this as a consequence.
As for what would happen with the 48,800, I would be prepared to make a prediction right here and right now: Most of them would support AGW theory.
Let’s hope the APS puts this one to the test.

Ned
October 22, 2012 9:29 pm

Dr. Gleick:
‘Climate science is based on physics, models, and observations. Of course the science isn’t “settled” or “incontrovertible” but it sure is solid.’
I think it’s great that you paid a visit to add your voice to the rest who believe APS is incorrect in saying that climate science is incontrovertible. Kudos also for adding that physics and climate models are categorically separate things (obviously all of physics is models, but most models aren’t physics, and glad to see that acknowledged). I’d really like to end on that positive note, as I think overall it was a very positive comment, but I do see one slightly disheartening thing, which is that you imply it’s something other than a necessary evil to base a branch of science, at least partly, on something that’s neither physics nor observations. Great that you at least recognize that climate models are neither, but too bad you feel that climate science being based partly upon them helps in some way to recommend its solidity.
Also, I don’t think climate science and gravity science are on a similar footing yet. I think there’s a reason gravity science is quite old — it’s easy to test. Everyone kind of does it every day, and really none of the experiments go counter to the model. But I assume people haven’t gotten around to trying to model the entire climate until recently because it seems like it would be so difficult to do it boggles my mind. And I’d think it would also be quite difficult (if not maybe even impossible) to test any model you might come up with in a truly rigorous, repeatable way, the way gravity models have previously been tested, and continue to be tested every time someone just gets out of bed, right? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think a truly controlled, repeatable experiment has been done on the global climate outside, just on the global climate “inside” (ie, in a computer), true? In the context of the Feynman quote you cited, I think experiments performed on a computer model would probably fall closer to the “beautiful theory” bin than the “experiment” bin. And even if an “outside”, truly empirical, on-the-actual-thing-you’re-trying-to-measure type experiment eventually turns out to be possible, it’s not something we ordinaries will be able to replicate and experience first hand for ourselves the way we can verify gravity, or even things like electromagnetism and chemical reactions, etc, in our own homes. You’ll need access to your own climate in order to check it yourself.
I have a lot of respect for people who undertake the task of studying the climate. I think, in a way, there’s probably a basic epistemological reason to say that climate science may be the most difficult science of them all. After all, the climate’s really the sum and effect of all the noise and random influences that all the other scientists go to great pains to isolate their experiments from in order to get precise, consistent results — the kind of results useful, predictive “laws” are ultimately made from. If other scientists couldn’t remove “climate” type effects from experiments, their results would probably also be imprecise and often completely wrong the way climate models are currently. My best wishes to you as you continue to try to crack this nut. It looks like a tough one.

Howskepticalment
October 22, 2012 9:38 pm

ps to my previous post
To take into the fears often expressed in WUWT strings about the political interferance from government departments, university hierarchies, research foundations, academies, small in-groups, editorial control-freaks, fossil fuel companies, extremist right-wing think tanks and the like, there should be a secret vote of APS members on the broad human forcings/natural forcings dichotomy, administered by a reputable external organisation.
My prediction? Somewhere less than 10% would support the natural forcings only option, somewhere more than 80% would support human forcings+natural forcings; remaining percentage: too unsure to say, or other views.
Not that that means the 80%+ would be right; it would, however, mean that the APS leadership faithfully reflects the view of the large majority of APS members.
Put it to the electoral test, I say.

Mark T
October 22, 2012 10:00 pm

[coming in late here, but personal attacks on another commenter are forbidden. I know this policy gets violated all the time, but this was too egregious to let by, but when I’m around it is enforced. ~ ctm]

Merovign
October 22, 2012 10:01 pm

Other than revealing how he skated on fraud charges, how could I possibly have any interest what Peter Gleick has to say?
I find the appearance odd, unless it was a clumsy attempt to solicit a barrage of quotable aggression – on a moderated blog – for hopes of some sort of absolution by way of false analogy.

Mark T
October 22, 2012 10:09 pm

Ned: LOL!
Mark

Howskepticalment
October 22, 2012 10:11 pm

Ned
Does it follow from your position that climate-wise, all we can do in terms of action or inaction based on science, is to cross our fingers?

Scott Basinger
October 22, 2012 10:13 pm

Hold on a second. Dr. Gleick suddenly shows up and essentially says that he disagrees with the odious use of “incontravertable” in the APS statement.
I wonder if he’s impersonating himself? Devious. 🙂 (intended in good humour, Dr. Gleick. welcome back)

Ian Hilliar
October 22, 2012 10:19 pm

The inFamous Peter Gleick quoted S.J.Gould-“Facts dont go away while scientists debate rival theories”. Would the [doubly infamous-I did not realise he was the same Peter Gleick who did the trash review of Donna la Framboise’s “Delinquent Teenager”-without reading it] – would that Mr Gleick like to post a comment on the “fact” that the UK Met office has just released a statement that there has been “No” Global warming in the 16years since 1997? Just to jog your memory , 1998 was the big hot one. And all the predictions from the serial doomists were that it was going to get a lot hotter unless we did something, now. CO2 continues to rise in a continuous curve, that appears to have no corellation to the ups and downs of recessions, global and otherwise. A question for Anthony-according to the ice cores, co2 follows temperature by about 800years, as the oceans take that long to commence warming and outgassing co2. So if the medieval warm period commenced in about 900 AD and finished about 1200 to 1300 AD, shoudnt we expect a rise in co2 to continue for approx300 or 400 years,even if every fossil fuel power station on the planet were to suddenly cease and desist?

davidmhoffer
October 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Howskepticalment;
My prediction? Somewhere less than 10% would support the natural forcings only option, somewhere more than 80% would support human forcings+natural forcings; remaining percentage: too unsure to say, or other views.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You’ve gamed the question. If the only options were those, I can suggest that very nearly 100% would agree that there is a human component to forcings, and possibly 100%. As Peter Gleick argued earlier, the existance of gravity is hardly in dispute. That doesn’t mean we understand exactly how it works and why. Similarly, that human activity results in climate forcings is hardly in dispute. The magnitude of the forcing, the magnitude and sign of feedbacks and how these relate to surface temperatures, most certainly are.
The IPCC’s own literature admits that the Level of Scientific Understanding of no less that 9 of 14 elements of radiative forcing is either “low” or “very low” (AR4 WG1 2.9.1). Only a single one is rated as “high”. In other words, even the IPCC’s own scientific literature doesn’t support the certainty expressed by the APS statement. If it were issues such as these that the APS membership was asked to express an opinion on, I think it unlikely that any but a tiny minority would support the statements as they currently stand. Even Peter Gleick upthread agreed (inadvertantly I think, but said it he did!) that the APS statement is much too strong.
By all means, support an open discussion followed by a fair voting process. But that means putting questions to the membership that reflect the issues in dispute. If all you want to ask is if there is a human component to forcing, then you may as well ask if gravity exists as well just to see if there is a level of dissent you didn’t know about on that issue as well. I’m guessing not.

Sean
October 22, 2012 10:27 pm

Quick, everybody check your pockets, Peter Gleick has been here. Anybody missing any documents from their computer?