You may have heard about this project:
Jeff L. writes in WUWT Tips and Notes:
You have to see this version of climate insanity – using climate alarmism to justify drilling BILLION dollar well to the mantle. I am a geologist & I love the idea of drilling a well to the mantle, but selling it on the idea that it is some how related to climate change is COMPLETELY INSANE !!
Here’s the story, you have to read it to believe it:
http://www.iodp.org/why-does-scientific-ocean-drilling-matter-to-you
Why Does Scientific Ocean Drilling Matter To You?
Increasing population and use of resources and energy has made global environment and climate change one of the major challenges posed by the 21st century. Research on deep-sea drill cores tells a story of profound climate and environmental change of the past that helps us to better understand the nature, mechanisms and driving forces behind such changes. And therefore provides a context in which to monitor and understand the importance of ongoing changes as we see them unfold on annual to human time scale. Can the past history show how dramatic and rapid changes can be? Are there signs of imminent, major changes that can be observed? How well can we model past history of global change? Such knowledge is fundamental in order to predict how dramatic future change could be, and where it may take us in terms of changing climate zones, change of sea-level and the impact on marine and terrestrial life.
It also matters to society because many of Earth’s most dynamic processes such as violent earthquakes and volcanism takes place within the oceans. These events pose major, immediate hazards to a large number of people. Placing observatories in boreholes deep within the seabed can help us understand the cycle and frequency of earthquakes. From the drill cores scientists can glean information on the history and magnitude of seismic and volcanic events, and their impact on the environment.
Drill cores from deep within the crust below the oceans are also critical for understanding the overall dynamics and history of planet Earth. New ocean crust is constantly being formed as part of the plate tectonic cycle, and subsequently being pushed back in the Earth’s mantle along tectonic subduction zones overlain by the volcanic arcs thought to be the building place for the continental crust we live on and utilize for resources.
Ocean drilling also has discovered that microbial life extends kilometer-deep into the seabed and suggests the presence of a huge, largely unknown biomass that may offer opportunities ranging from scientific insights into the development and sustainability of life under extreme conditions to possible industrial applications of unknown genetic material.
Understanding the complex working of our planet, its interplay with life, and the potential changes to global climate and environment caused by human activity is simply no longer just an option to satisfy scientific curiosity: It has become a critical societal responsibility for sustainable development within the 21st century. This is why ocean drilling sciences matters to all of us.
The Integrated Ocean Drilling Program is a research program global in scope and participation, and the only of its kind.
I am one of those “pinheads” (no offense taken) who uses deep-sea cores to study past climate cycles and I have been on some ODP/IODP drilling expeditions aimed at this objective. Setting aside the question of AGW, the DSDP/ODP/IODP core materials have been central to our understanding of past climates.
Jeff L. has picked up on a bit of *overall* IODP promo material which discusses the use of IODP cores to study past climate *and* deep subsurface microbes *and* crustal processes, etc. In fact the material Jeff L. has quoted says nothing about drilling to the mantle; the piece’s only mention of the mantle says “New ocean crust is constantly being formed as part of the plate tectonic cycle, and subsequently being pushed back in the Earth’s mantle along tectonic subduction zones overlain by the volcanic arcs thought to be the building place for the continental crust we live on and utilize for resources.” Overall a correct, if general, statement of the current understanding of plate tectonics.
The piece Jeff L. has copied and pasted actually doesn’t even say anything about drilling to the mantle as the headline media piece does. The media piece at top does say the 21st Century Mohole project (that’s what it’s called within IODP circles) will “answer basic questions about climate change geology and life on Earth.” The project is not justified on the basis of delivering on questions about climate change as the posting’s headline media piece suggests (see links below). This media piece does not seem to come from IODP itself but seems to be a CNN or other some wire-service story. A longer version
http://singularityhub.com/2012/10/07/geologists-plan-to-drill-6-kilometers-down-all-the-way-to-earths-mantle/
does say “The geologists, however, attest that samples from the mantle will provide a detailed record of the Earth’s climate and environmental history.” The link to the “attest” statement
takes us back to the IODP promo statement Jeff L. found, which does *not* claim mantle samples will provide any record of Earth’s climate or environmental history – that record is mainly to be found in sediments overlying ocean crust. So the media story appears to have gotten the story wrong and confused two different themes of IODP drilling, and made a claim no scientists appear to have made.
Crustal dynamics (which the Mohole project is aimed at better understanding) *do* have relevance to climate. *But* it’s generally thought, only on *very* long time scales of tens-to-hundreds of millions of years through the relationship between tectonics and geochemical cycles understood to control the (again I emphasize) very *long-term* changes in the carbon cycle. e.g.
http://www.iodp.org/new-nature-study-illuminates-55-million-years-of-the-carbon-cycle-and-climate-history
If you read a better-written media piece on the Moho drilling project
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/01/tech/mantle-earth-drill-mission/index.html?hpt=te_r2
or an IODP description of the initiative
http://www.iodp.org/doc_download/1283-ispini21ctmohole
they say *nothing* about climate, appropriately, as the Moho drilling is not about climate.
The most likely sites for the drilling will be near fast-spreading mid-ocean ridges in the eastern Pacific, not in trenches.
Doug says:
October 9, 2012 at 8:49 am
Heck we have these things called diatremes, which sent all sorts of bits of mantle material to the surface, where we can just go look at them.
Correct. Kimberlite pipes by another name. Source of Diamonds. And all kinds of other High Pressure/High Temperature oddities. Diamonds are elemental carbon. Maybe that’s where this Idea that hydrocarbons came from the mantle emerged. Well, go drill a diatreme.
Setting aside the question of AGW, the DSDP/ODP/IODP core materials have been central to our understanding of past climates.
Jeff L. has picked up on a bit of *overall* IODP promo material which discusses the use of IODP cores to study past climate *and* deep subsurface microbes *and* crustal processes, etc. In fact the material he has quoted says nothing about drilling to the mantle; the piece’s only mention of the mantle says “New ocean crust is constantly being formed as part of the plate tectonic cycle, and subsequently being pushed back in the Earth’s mantle along tectonic subduction zones overlain by the volcanic arcs thought to be the building place for the continental crust we live on and utilize for resources.” Overall a correct, if general, statement of the current understanding of plate tectonics.
The piece Jeff L. has copied and pasted actually doesn’t even say anything about drilling to the mantle as the headline media piece does. The media piece at top does say the 21st Century Mohole project (that’s what it’s called within IODP circles) will “answer basic questions about climate change geology and life on Earth.” The project is not justified on the basis of delivering on questions about climate change as the posting’s headline media piece suggests (see links below). This media piece does not seem to come from IODP itself but seems to be a CNN or other some wire-service story. A longer version
http://singularityhub.com/2012/10/07/geologists-plan-to-drill-6-kilometers-down-all-the-way-to-earths-mantle/
does say “The geologists, however, attest that samples from the mantle will provide a detailed record of the Earth’s climate and environmental history.” The link to the “attest” statement
takes us back to the IODP promo statement Jeff L. found, which does *not* claim mantle samples will provide any record of Earth’s climate or environmental history – that record is mainly to be found in sediments overlying ocean crust. So the media story appears to have gotten the story wrong and confused two different themes of IODP drilling, and made a claim no scientists appear to have made.
Crustal dynamics (which the Mohole project is aimed at better understanding) *do* have relevance to climate. *But* it’s generally thought, only on *very* long time scales of tens-to-hundreds of millions of years through the relationship between tectonics and geochemical cycles understood to control the (again I emphasize) very *long-term* changes in the carbon cycle. e.g.
http://www.iodp.org/new-nature-study-illuminates-55-million-years-of-the-carbon-cycle-and-climate-history
If you read a better-written media piece on the Moho drilling project
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/01/tech/mantle-earth-drill-mission/index.html?hpt=te_r2
or an IODP description of the initiative
http://www.iodp.org/doc_download/1283-ispini21ctmohole
they say *nothing* about climate, appropriately, as the Moho drilling is not about climate.
The most likely sites for the drilling will be near fast-spreading mid-ocean ridges in the eastern Pacific, not in trenches.
By the way I am one of those “pinheads” (no offense taken) who uses deep-sea cores to study past climate and I have been on ODP/IODP drilling expeditions aimed at this objective.
foghorn leghorn says:
October 9, 2012 at 9:07 am
Thank you. As a fully-qualified pinhead with on-site experience, lettuce hope you can assure us the crew was using their head and drilling with the sharp end of the pin, and holding on to the blunt end. 8<)
Are they trying to claim that the missing heat isn’t in the ocean, it’s now in the mantle?
alex says:
October 9, 2012 at 1:23 am
Defending yourself is stupid?
I’d be interested in knowing temp profiles going below the sea floor. I recently read that the reason the mid-oceanic ridges are ridges is because of heat. In other words the greater heat at mid-oceanic ridges cause expansion of rock thereby raising them up into ridges.
Apology for the double posting – browser crashed and I thought the post hadn’t gone through.
Take a look at the IODP publications:
http://www.iodp.org/scientific-publications/
On a casual look I would say, regardless of whether there is any connection with climate, they are doing a whole lot more observational science than many of the most vocal climate scientists.
To overcome the plasticity of the mantel, I recommend they set casing in the crystalline basement just above it, convert the drilling mud system to air, and without a drill bit, pressure up and blow their way down similar to the procedure utilized by glass blowers. A wire line camera can follow the cavern in real time, probably infrared would work. /Sarc just to make sure.
It looks like whoever wrote the press release just searched the Interwebs for “ocean drilling” and copied whatever was found, without understanding it.
Technically, the deep hole might say something about climate, but on a scale of scores or hundreds of millions of years.
Just being silly here – but what if they discover that whatever is down there is younger than what’s up here?
@gofer says:
October 9, 2012 at 4:07 am
“Maybe they will make a huge oil discovery. How ironic would that be?”
Heh. Yeah. I doubt they will tell anyone if they do find that much oil.
“This can’t be right. The minimum thickness of the Earths crust is more like 30km, not 6km, so wherever they are drilling to, it won’t be into the mantle.”
That’s continental plates. Oceanic plates are no more than six miles.
It will melt when it hits Al Gore’s “millions of degrees” layer, won’t it?
Matt says:
I am reading here in other news the drill will be 10Km – so maybe it is rather 6 miles than 6 Km…
Sounds more like they plan on drilling where the sea is about 4km deep.
Wonder how the drilling platform will be kept from moving whilst the hole is drilled in such deep water.
@David Ball,
Sorry, you are out of luck. The bible might not metion your tax bill in particular, but it does mention taxes.
See Mark 12:17
You still have to pay your taxes.
@Alexander Faht
Thanks. That is a perfect comparison.
Don’t they know it’s a million degrees down there, and they are going to provide a new way for it to get to the surface. Why not just run a computer simulation of it, and then you might as well go all the way to the center of the earth !!
They’re thinking way too small. Just melt your way through.
http://www.npl.washington.edu/av/altvw120.html
Drilling down into the mantle to study the climate? Idiots! They should be drilling up!
Of JCrew says: October 9, 2012 at 7:30 am
Thanks JCrew for your comment. I agree. Sound like you have some actual oil field experience. I do remember a gas well back in the late ’70’s, I believe it was in the Anadarko basin formation (?), the deepest well of that time and it hit gas, lots of gas, a mother lode so to speak at huge pressure. It was going to make some very, very wealthy. The problem *was* the absolutely huge pressure.
One investor took his relatives out to the well one Sunday to show off the well and opened the main valve wide open for the roar experience and thankfully instead of casing failure and blowout ejection the well collapse upon itself deep below instantly plugging itself. End of story. If the opposite had occurred I remember hearing that the oil & gas industry at that time didn’t know how they would have ever been able to get it back in control and capped, all due to the pressure.
To give that some scale, with an 18” casing at 30,000 psi a plug of solid lead 18” in diameter a mile high would not even be enough weight to counter act that much force.
That’s very vague now and probably not exactly correct, some of the stories may have been a bit of hype about it, but when I hear of wells to such depths it brings back those times. A eighteen inch casing at 30000 psi is about 4000 static tons it takes to counteract that force. I sure hope they know what they are doing if they do hit an unexpected pocket.
Wikipedia (sorry) says, “In some places under the ocean the mantle is actually exposed on the surface of the Earth.[8] There are also a few places on land where mantle rock has been pushed to the surface by tectonic activity, most notably the Tablelands region of Gros Morne National Park in the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
So, why drill? Or at least, drill there.
Mark says:
October 9, 2012 at 11:29 am
Matt says:
I am reading here in other news the drill will be 10Km – so maybe it is rather 6 miles than 6 Km…
Sounds more like they plan on drilling where the sea is about 4km deep.
Wonder how the drilling platform will be kept from moving whilst the hole is drilled in such deep water.
The same way it is done everywhere else.