You may have heard about this project:
Jeff L. writes in WUWT Tips and Notes:
You have to see this version of climate insanity – using climate alarmism to justify drilling BILLION dollar well to the mantle. I am a geologist & I love the idea of drilling a well to the mantle, but selling it on the idea that it is some how related to climate change is COMPLETELY INSANE !!
Here’s the story, you have to read it to believe it:
http://www.iodp.org/why-does-scientific-ocean-drilling-matter-to-you
Why Does Scientific Ocean Drilling Matter To You?
Increasing population and use of resources and energy has made global environment and climate change one of the major challenges posed by the 21st century. Research on deep-sea drill cores tells a story of profound climate and environmental change of the past that helps us to better understand the nature, mechanisms and driving forces behind such changes. And therefore provides a context in which to monitor and understand the importance of ongoing changes as we see them unfold on annual to human time scale. Can the past history show how dramatic and rapid changes can be? Are there signs of imminent, major changes that can be observed? How well can we model past history of global change? Such knowledge is fundamental in order to predict how dramatic future change could be, and where it may take us in terms of changing climate zones, change of sea-level and the impact on marine and terrestrial life.
It also matters to society because many of Earth’s most dynamic processes such as violent earthquakes and volcanism takes place within the oceans. These events pose major, immediate hazards to a large number of people. Placing observatories in boreholes deep within the seabed can help us understand the cycle and frequency of earthquakes. From the drill cores scientists can glean information on the history and magnitude of seismic and volcanic events, and their impact on the environment.
Drill cores from deep within the crust below the oceans are also critical for understanding the overall dynamics and history of planet Earth. New ocean crust is constantly being formed as part of the plate tectonic cycle, and subsequently being pushed back in the Earth’s mantle along tectonic subduction zones overlain by the volcanic arcs thought to be the building place for the continental crust we live on and utilize for resources.
Ocean drilling also has discovered that microbial life extends kilometer-deep into the seabed and suggests the presence of a huge, largely unknown biomass that may offer opportunities ranging from scientific insights into the development and sustainability of life under extreme conditions to possible industrial applications of unknown genetic material.
Understanding the complex working of our planet, its interplay with life, and the potential changes to global climate and environment caused by human activity is simply no longer just an option to satisfy scientific curiosity: It has become a critical societal responsibility for sustainable development within the 21st century. This is why ocean drilling sciences matters to all of us.
The Integrated Ocean Drilling Program is a research program global in scope and participation, and the only of its kind.
i like the subtle difference in the headline, and the fact a 10.10 guy is still around!
9 Oct: Mother Jones: Duncan Clark: Can We Bank on Recessions to Keep Global Warming In Check?
(Duncan Clark is a consultant editor on the Guardian environment desk and strategy director of 10:10)
Based on a review of World Bank statistics of more than 150 nations from 1960 to 2008, the research – published in Nature Climate Change on Sunday – found that emissions of carbon dioxide rose by an average of 0.7% for every 1% growth in gross domestic product (GDP) per capita. But emissions fell just 0.43% for every 1% decline in GDP per capita.
The study’s author, Richard York of the University of Oregon, said:…
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/10/can-we-bank-recessions-keep-global-warming-check
8 Oct: Guardian: Duncan Clark: Why we can’t bank on Recessions to Keep Global Warming In Check?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2012/oct/08/recessions-global-warming-check?newsfeed=true
(Guardian profile: Duncan Clark is a consultant editor on the Guardian environment desk. He has written and edited a number of books on environmental and technology topics as well as working at BBC Worldwide and 10:10.)
Volcanoes apparently do effect climate? At least there’s a shred of usefulness if it advances our understaning of things like plate tectonics and volcanoes, etc. So far I think NASA wins the prize of most money for climate change with this:
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/why.html
At least the mantle is a lot closer and any science done may actually help geology along. But climate change on Mars? The last time someone of note studied climate change on Venus we got Hansen and the Hordes of Phil Jones.
(2 pages) 8 Oct: Investors Business Daily: Paul Driessen: Please Spare Us Any More Climate-Change Alarmism
The tales of doom remain standard media and political fare, even as the science continues to evolve — and ClimateGate and other revelations of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change shenanigans and duplicity join the dissection of Michael Mann’s hockey stick graph in reducing public anxiety.
New theories about solar cycles, cosmic rays and the dominant role of solar activity in determining Earth’s climate are becoming ever more accepted…
The hysterical and spectacularly wrong predictions would be hysterically funny, except for one thing. They are being used to justify policies that are trashing our economy…
Our weather has hardly become any “weirder” than what Earth and humanity have faced countless times before. However, the “new normal” in political discourse, scientific research, democratic institutions, laws and regulations has definitely gotten both weirder and more pernicious.
Contrary to President Obama’s intent, we don’t need to “fundamentally transform” our energy, economy or society. We need to fundamentally transform the political system that diverts our attention and resources from real challenges, analyses and solutions.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/100812-628600-predictions-about-global-warming-hysterical-and-spectacularly-wrong.htm
2 Oct: Sacramento Bee: by Physicians for Civil Defense: “Green” Predictions Need Reality Check, Doctors Say
“Green” alarmists make dire predictions, which are overdue for a reality check, states Jane Orient, M.D., president of Physicians for Civil Defense, according to the September issue of the Doctors for Disaster Preparedness Newsletter.
In 1983, they predicted that forests would disappear in the first half of the 21st century. As of 2010, forests covered 31% of the earth’s surface. Deforestation is decreasing, and some areas show net gains.
Global warming was expected to cause a loss of carbon stored on land, according to another 1983 prediction. Instead, global carbon uptake by land and oceans doubled between 1960 and 2010…
“Apocalyptic Green predictions are regularly shown to be wrong,” states Dr. Orient. Yet they are being used to justify disastrously expensive policies, such as shutting down electrical generating stations…ETC
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/10/02/4875142/green-predictions-need-reality.html
The Russians have already drilled on land to a depth of 12.2 km, at which depth the rocks became plastic and unable to be drilled. 1970 – 1994. Search Kola super deep borehole.
wayne says:
October 9, 2012 at 12:44 am
Hmm, no mention of the pressures they expect to find, no mention of how they plan to handle possible uncontrollable pressures they may unleash, are these environmentalist scientists running this circus? I did notice the prevalent references right off the bat to “global environment”, “increasing population” and “climate change”. Sure seems if this were to become Pandora’s Keyhole they may very well literally change the Earth’s climate.
For me to feel a bit more comfortable with this idea I would want many more technical details and to make sure this isn’t even remotely managed by climatologists of any flavor. BP thought they had all of the bases covered too on that hole in the gulf and look what curves nature can throw at you.
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There is some speculation whether drilling into the mantle could trigger some kind of eruption. Apparently not — not a true magma eruption anyway: http://tinyurl.com/8cmag6r Of course, unpleasant surprises are always a possibility in drilling. For example the Lusi mud volcano in Indonesia (still active) was apparently caused by drilling in 2006. From the end of the linked article:
“While drilling couldn’t cause the eruption of a true volcano, mud volcanoes are a different story. In 2006, a gas company pulled its drill bit out of an exploratory well in Indonesia, triggering a fracture in the rock that turned out to be holding back tremendous amounts of mud. (The company claims that an earthquake caused the eruption.) The Lusi mud volcano began spewing 100,000 tons of mud daily, quickly covering three square miles of land in 65 feet of sediment. The eruption has continued to this day, and some scientists predict the flow could last more than 80 years.”
And the sinking of Lake Peigneur in a drilling accident was a pretty spectacular event:
Bill Robards says:
October 9, 2012 at 12:42 am
I suspect they will drill in the deep marine trenches where the distance to the mantle is shorter. The drilling platform will be a ship holding its position over the deeps, hence the 10 km drill to get down six km.
C’mon Bill. You suspect? While your speculation is quasi-correct, it misses the point. Yes, ocean crust stretches a tad where it plunges into a subduction zone, which may make it thinner to a degree, but that doesn’t make much of a difference. Drilling into a trench isn’t much better than drilling elsewhere on a plate formed of oceanic basalt. Why would adding 11 km to the marine riser in order to drill another 10 km of crust be of advantage? I don’t know either.
I’ve cracked fun about it before, but it’s still a bit perverse to see how thorough the dementia is. Time to warm up the typewriter and dash off a grant application to study the carbon emissions and various sequestration devices of idling cars in parking lots. Especially as they interact with differing microclimates in rural and urban areas. The work will investigate differing refueling practices, canopies, vents, and ducting issues involved. As a side benefit research costs will be mitigated through the sale of consumer goods, which assists in self-selection of study participants in a manner complying with ethical norms for human experimentation.
All that’s needed is a mere — puts pinky to mouth — $1 Billion dollars. Bonus: I get the AGW crowd to make me a mogul of 7-11 franchises in Southern California.
Shades of Professor Challenger:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Challenger
He was one of my favorite Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Characters..
Look, Geo’s have been wanting to drill to the mantle for decades and have never been able to get the money and technology together to pull it off. Now, using the excuse of studying climate change, they just might get it done. I hate to admit this but I’m all for it.
We’ve spent (and lost) many more billions on wind turbine and solar projects. I’d rather see it spent on a project like this than on more projects like those.
cheers
If they are looking for Trenberth’s missing ocean heat, they sure as heck are going to find it.
Well the climate change thing seems a bit of a stretch but I wouldn’t pass judgement until I see the research program.
After all the drilling could intersect subduction zones containing carbonates from earlier eras leading to better understanding of past clinates.
An understanding of the way the continents were formed could come out if this work. That process of course affected the formation of the very early atmosphere.
Re: Solomon Green says: “… climate science was … a dull subject…”
Made me think of Eric Olthwaite – if you don’t know who he is, find out here:
http://www.bbcshop.com/comedy/ripping-yarns-the-complete-series-dvd/invt/7953361/
early climate research from the BBC – only a matter of time before it is cited by the IPCC
Sorry for the apparent thread-bombing, but some of the questions in here reflect a complete lack of understanding of earth processes.
Rhoda Ramirez says:
October 9, 2012 at 12:45 am
Once they drill through the mantel, what’s to keep the liquid mush from spewing up and incinerating them all? What will they learn that they can’t learn from studying volcano lava? Do we have the technology to make drill bits that won’t melt as they approach the core?
It’s the “mantle”, and perhaps more correctly called the ‘asthenosphere’. It’s not made of liquid mush, but rather hot material with the consistency of toffee. It doesn’t ‘spew’. Even if it could, it would congeal once it destroyed the marine riser and met with sea water. Volcano lava is lava. The mantle is not. It is a tad early in the discussion to worry about melting a drill bit in the Core, which is a couple of thousand kilometers BELOW the mantle. Nonetheless, it’s pretty hot, and the drilling mud is going to be superheated by the effort…if the plasticity of the deep ocean crust doesn’t cause them to get stuck in the hole, or twist off the drilling assembly.
Robertvdl says:
October 9, 2012 at 2:16 am
And if things go wrong ? Can’t we better drill on land ? Have we learned nothing from the BP Gulf of Mexico disaster !
Please. If “we” stopped everything because it might go wrong, we’d be living in the dark ages. Things have already gone wrong with this project: It’s reason for being. No, “we” can’t drill on land. The continental lithosphere is substantially thicker than oceanic lithosphere. Yes, “We” learned something from the BP disaster: it wasn’t as bad as everyone screamed it would be. Drilling down to the Mohorovicic Discontinuity deliberately avoids a deep sediment pile, where most petroleum is found.
baltwo says:
October 9, 2012 at 3:10 am
They just can’t get off the “fossil fuel” myth. The hypothesis has been been falsified and Thomas Gold’s and the Russian’s abiotic hyplthesis almost proven. See Corsi’s “Black Gold Stranglehold” and “The Great Oil Conspiracy” for details.
That’s like saying “consult the IPCC” for details. Contrary to your opinion, the theory of “fossil fuel” origin has NOT been falsified….especially by something that is ‘almost’ proven.
Geoff Sherrington says:
October 9, 2012 at 4:43 am
The Russians have already drilled on land to a depth of 12.2 km, at which depth the rocks became plastic and unable to be drilled. 1970 – 1994. Search Kola super deep borehole.
Correct. And that was in granitic continental basement. The asthenosphere is Kola on steroids. Plastic rocks squeeze in on the drilling assembly, making it impossible to continue.
What really stands out is that this project is so poorly justified…a new coat of paint on JOIDES, DSDP, and Project Mohole.
I have little doubt that once they measure the temperature of the mantle, it will be 0.5C warmer than predicted by models. Upon hearing of the discrepancy, some illustrious climate scientist will declare that the ocean’s missing heat has been found, and that the warmer magma will lead to catastrophe:
“Global warming is causing an increase in the frequency and severity of volcano eruptions!”
(On a side note, they’ll also “discover” that Krakatoa and Tambora were actually small, regional eruptions, and Pinatubo is now considered the largest volcanic event in recent history)
steveta_uk says:
October 9, 2012 at 2:58 am
By God these people are insane! Don’t they remeber what happened when the Daleks tried this?
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What’s a “Daleks”??
I must have missed it when they tried it.
I find the use of the foraminifera fossils to create an evolutionary sequence and then to date rocks to be full of uncertainty. About 275,000 species are recognized, both living and fossil. I cringe when scientists wave their hands and claim one follows the other in evolutionary sequence, and then even to 100,000 year resolution!
Also, the idea that so much information about conditions on the earth and in the ocean can be determined from isotopes in the fossil shells is full of assumptions. During the process of biomineralization, somehow isotopes show up in the shells that are not expected to be there. It is hardly well understood, and it is not a one-to-one relationship between the isotopes in the water and the isotopes in the shells.
I think they will get a lot of information, and already are poised to misinterpret it for the sake of AGW paleoclimatology, or to report what they think they know already.
@Fred Fred
Thanks for the info! Using sediments as a climate proxy makes much sense than a 6 km (or 6 mile?) hole into the crust and mantle…
On that: Are there any plans yet as the where this 6 km hole into crust and mantle is planned?
I think there was a movie in the 60s ‘Crack in the World’ (yes – 1964) where they drill down, can’t get through to the core so drop a small nuclear bomb to break through the crust and then all kinks of things go wrong and ends up creating a second moon. I presume life as we know it would end. Bringing science fiction to life!
I think it would provide some great geological data but it seems there have been others that have drilled deeper already. What great pressures there must be so far down. Perhaps this group could talk to those other projects and see what problems they ran into.
@Alexander Feht
If it isn’t in the Bible, it didn’t happen.
They could save themselves, and taxpayers, a lot of money by going to Newfoundland, where asthenospheric rocks are at the surface.
Suppose they drill down, prick something, and the rapidly deflating Earth goes psssffftttt across space…. 🙂
Matthew W says: October 9, 2012 at 5:51 am
What’s a “Daleks”??
I must have missed it when they tried it.
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Sigh……take this man’s geek badge away from him!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who
Regards,
Steamboat Jack (Jon Jewett’s evil twin)
@Francisco, October 9, 2012 at 4:45 am:
As to the “sinking of Lake Peigneur in a drilling accident was a pretty spectacular event”:
I don’t expect drilling on the ocean floor to hit any salt mines.
But then again I’m sure somebody here will come up with a theory that Obama is building secret salt mines under to oceans and filling them with Dollar bills, or something.
This can’t be right. The minimum thickness of the Earths crust is more like 30km, not 6km, so wherever they are drilling to, it won’t be into the mantle.
michaeljmcfadden says:
October 9, 2012 at 4:14 am
That would be “Denver is Missing” by D. F. Jones. I recently looked this up, and found that like many SF books by English authors, US titles were not always the same as on the other side of the pond.