September Panics and Smurphy's Law

A layman’s view of the strange period of history we are living through

Guest post by Caleb Shaw

During hot spells in the summer I often find it refreshing to click onto Anthony’s “Sea Ice Page,” and to sit back and simply watch ice melt. It is an escape from my busy, sweaty routine, as long as I avoid the “Sea Ice Posts” where people become anxious, political, and somewhat insulting, about the serene topic of ice melting. However by September there is no way to avoid the furor generated by melting ice. It reaches a crescendo.

I used to like the September Panic because I often could hijack a thread by bringing up the subject of Vikings. I’d rather talk about Vikings floating around during the MWP, than a bunch of bergs floating around and melting today.

The September Panic also entertained me because I used to learn about all sorts of things I didn’t know about. The debate always involved people clobbering each other with facts, and hitting each other over the head with links. In the process you’d learn all sorts of fascinating trivia about Norwegian fishermen in the 1920’s, and arctic explorers in the 1800’s, and even some science.

For example, fresh water floats on top of saltier water, unless it is the Gulf Stream, which is saltier water floating on top of fresher water because it is warmer, until it gets colder.

This science crosses your eyes, in a pleasant manner, and leads inevitably to discussions about thermohaline circulation, which is fascinating, because so little is known about it.

It also leads to discussions about how the freezing of salt water creates floating ice that is turned into fresh water by extracting brine, which forms “brincicles” as it dribbles down through the ice at temperatures far below zero and enters the warmer sea beneath. This in turn leads to discussions involving the fact that, with such large amounts of brine sinking, surface water must come from someplace to replace it, and in some cases this surface water is cold, while in other cases it is warm.

The fact the replacing waters can be warmer leads to discussions about the northernmost branches of the Gulf Stream, and how these branches meander north and south. This in turn leads to talk of the unpredictable nature of meandering, the further downstream you move from the original point where the meandering starts, and this, (if you are lucky,) will lead you to Chaos Theory and Strange Attractors.

(In the case of the Mississippi River, the subject of meandering leads you to the Delta, plus the topics of Engineers, New Orleans, and Murphy’s Law.) (In the case of psychology, the meanderings of the human mind leads to the conclusion humans are utterly unpredictable, unless they are psychologists, in which case they obey Smurphy’s Law, which states a psychologist will succumb to whatever ailment he is expert in.)

In conclusion, the September Panic can be a source of fascinating thought, providing you are willing to drift like a berg and wind up miles off topic.

I’ve been through this all before, during the Great Meltdown of 2007, and its September Panic. Those were great times, for in the period 2006-2007 the so-called “consensus” put forward a great propaganda effort, including the movie “An Inconvenient Truth,” and won Oscars, Peace Prizes, and a sound thrashing from Skeptics.

Congress debunked Mann’s “hockey stick” in 2006, an English Judge rebuked Al Gore for falsehoods in his movie in 2007, and also in 2007 Hansen had to back off his “adjustments” due to the work of McIntyre at Climate Audit. When Rush Limbaugh mentioned McIntyre’s victory, Climate Audit was overwhelmed by traffic, which was one reason the existence of WUWT came to be known by me, and many others.

In essence the “consensus” experienced a debacle in 2007, for its attempts at propaganda drew so much attention that all its flaws stood naked in a glaring spotlight, and ordinary people began to understand the emperor had no clothes.

All this happened before the 2007 ice-extent hit its record low, and added a quality of desperation to that year’s September Panic. Desperate for proof, Alarmists felt the low ice-extent proved Al Gore was right, and the IPCC was right, but, by using such dubious and refutable sources, they effectively were putting their heads on a chopping block. Or climbing out on a limb. Or swimming like fish in a barrel. (Take your pick.)

At this point a new word, a word most people had never used or even heard before, became quite common in the climate debates, and the word was “obfuscation.” (It would be interesting to compare how often that word was used in 2007 with how often it was used in 2005.)

The Alarmist’s obfuscation has now persisted for five years, which means that the melt-down of 2012 is a bit boring. It is a case of “been there, done that.” No longer do I often learn things I didn’t know about. One hears the same, tired, old arguments from 2007, and one knows it is hardly worth replying, because Alarmists are not interested in the vast and awesome complexity of a chaotic scientific reality, preferring the simplicity of a “belief,” which they grip with white knuckles.

About the only interesting and new approach on the part of Alarmists is their attempt to misuse psychology, and to make it a way of marginalizing and ostracizing those who point out their mistakes. Though appalling, this is interesting because it seems a perfect example of Smurfy’s Law.

Formerly the definition of “Liberal” was “generous,” and one thing that old-time Liberals were very generous about was giving minority viewpoints a fair hearing. In any discussion of Dams, Deserts and Droughts, they would hear the views of ordinary engineers, meteorologists, and hydrologists, but also insist upon hearing the views of extraordinary Native American rain-dancers. They desired “diversity,” and had contempt towards those who would not consider, or at least be considerate towards, “alternative views.”

Strangely, this concept has now vanished among some who formerly wore the tag, “Liberal.” Gone is their desire for “diversity,” replaced with a fawning regard for the “consensus.” The very same people who sneered at convention when young are now guilty of being the very thing they sneered at: Blindly conventional.

In a way this is a normal part of maturing. Churchill stated something like, “Those who were not Liberal when young had no heart; those who do not become Conservative when older have no brain.”

However there is a significant difference between the ordinary process of maturing, and people who enact Smurphy’s Law. In the ordinary process of maturing there are some core values which endure the battering of youthful idealism, as it gets hammered into the tempered steel of maturity. As the poetry of William Blake is subtly altered from “Songs of Innocence” into “Songs of Experience,” the poetry remains poetry; the heart remains a heart. However, in the case of Smurphy’s Law, those core values either are completely abandoned, or were abandoned in the beginning. (After all, psychology attempts to measure the human spirit with calipers and thermometers, and sometimes has a hard time conceding things such as “heart” and “poetry” even exist.)

At the risk of being poetic rather than scientific, I’ll state that our youthful ideals are like sails that haul us against the wind of a world that can be stormy and can leave our sails in tatters. Our core values are like a keel that keeps us from capsizing, so that even if we lose our hearing like Beethoven did, we still can produce a Ninth Symphony. Without such a keel of core values we can flip-flop, and end up enacting Smurfy’s Law, and see ourselves opposing the very free speech we once stood for.

This, and not the bergs bobbing about in the arctic, is the real melt-down that has occurred, and which we have been witness to. The very people who once were most adamant about free speech are now vehemently opposed to it. The very people who were most open minded to the most bizarre alternative-lifestyles now have minds clamped tighter than clam’s, (certain that they themselves are oysters and hold pearls.)

What a joke. Those who once were Liberals now are not, while those who never wished to be called Liberal now are.

It is a great struggle we are involved with, (defending free speech and open-mindedness,) but it does get tiresome, which is why I occasionally use Anthony’s “Sea Ice Page,” to flee to the North Pole, where I can serenely watch the bergs bob about and melt.

It is a great relief to escape the nonsense of Smurfy’s Law for a time, and to instead consider that which is awe inspiring: Creation is an incredible place, a chaos that has no business being orderly, but is.

Everywhere you look there are marvels too complex for even the hugest computer to handle: The vast meanderings of the Gulf Stream; the mysterious, pulsing appearances and disappearances of huge amounts of water into and out-of Thermohaline Circulation, the metamorphosis of a ripple on a front into the vast circulation of a huge storm with an eye, and so forth, from the deepest depths to the upper atmosphere, and on through solar winds to the sun.

Of course, even when you think you have escaped the bother of petty politics for a while, you’re liable to get dragged back to reality, even when hiding up in the Arctic.

For example, the Cryosphere Today map will show open ocean, as you read a news item about a fifteen-by-eleven-mile pack of bergs, containing ice as much as eighty feet thick, closing down a drilling operation in that area of “open ocean.”

http://www.adn.com/2012/09/10/2619205/shell-halts-chukchi-sea-drilling.html

At this point I always feel I am being dragged kicking and screaming from the sublime to the ridiculous. I “don’t want to go there,” but I have to.

In a way it reminds me of being the father of teenagers. They might tell me they were heading down to the Public Library to study, but I would get to thinking that such study seemed a bit out of character, so after a half hour I’d go check the Public Library to see if they really were there.

It is a sad state of affairs when you cannot take scientists at their word, and have to go check up on them as if they were teenagers, however some have earned this disgrace: They cannot be trusted. And this besmirches other scientists, good and honorable men who are just trying to do their work, but who suddenly notice a layman like me scowling over their shoulder. (Ever try to work with someone hovering over your shoulder? Half of the time it makes your hammer hit your thumb.)

Unfortunately science has earned such scrutiny. I no longer trust that the Arctic Ocean is ice-free just because Cryrosphere Today maps it as ice-free. I double check, using perhaps the DMI sea-surface-temperature map:

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/satellite/index.uk.php

And I am then puzzled by the fact this map shows sea-surface-temperatures below the freezing point of salt water for large areas the Cryosphere map shows it as open ocean.

So I say the heck with maps, and resort to my lying eyes. The North Pole Camera has drifted far south of the pole, into Fram Strait. You can tell where the camera is by using the Buoy Drift Track Map at

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/DriftTrackMap.html

And this shows you that, according to various Cryosphere maps, the camera should either be showing half ice and half open water, or should show a nice view of fishes at the bottom of the sea. Instead it has a view of ice in all directions, with the summer’s melt-water pools freezing over, when the camera’s lens itself is not frosted over. When you check the site records you notice that, even though it has drifted south of 82 degrees north, temperatures have at times dipped below minus ten Celsius.

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/819920_atmos_recent.html

At this point you start to feel a bit like the father of a teenaged daughter who has discovered their child is not at the Library, who wonders where the heck the girl has gone.

One can continue on to the satellite view, which, if clouds are not in the way, shows the “open ocean” is remarkably dotted by white specks of ice.

Though one could perhaps then argue about whether the bergs amount to more-than or less-than 15%, and whether this means the water is officially defined as “open ocean” or not, such quibbling is a bit like discovering your teenaged daughter flirting at the ball field, and having her argue that the fact she has a book with her makes the ball field a “library.”

One simply has the feeling that truth is being stretched dangerously close to its limits.

Considering young scientists usually begin filled with idealistic zeal, and hunger and thirst for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it seems a wonder they can wind up stretching truth and resembling a psychologist suffering from Smurphy’s Law. How could they sell out to such a degree?

The reason for selling out is always the same: Money.

I can not say for certain that, when I was young and sleeping in my car, I would not have been tempted by a grant for 1.7 million dollars. Perhaps even Beethoven would have been tempted to make pizza, rather than the Ninth Symphony, if someone had offered him 1.7 million dollars. (One interesting short piano work of Beethoven’s is entitled, “Rage Over A Lost Penny.”) Money is the root of all evil, and when we see scientists swayed by their patrons we should perhaps say, “There but for the Grace of God go I.” (And also, “Blessed are the poor.”)

In any case, it seems we live in a time when some scientists are working under the thumbs of benefactors and patrons who desire results presented with a certain political “spin.” If it is possible to present data concerning the melt of the Arctic Ice Cap in a way that makes it look more extreme, because this may make a carbon tax more possible, the scientist will be under great pressure to do so.

The scientist is in essence working with a frowning boss scowling over his shoulder. The only way we can counter-balance this effect is to also look over his shoulder, and give the poor fellow the sense that “the whole world is watching.” This will likely make scientists miserable, and also make them yearn for the days when they were ignored and could work in peaceful obscurity, however it will also keep them honest, which is for the best for all, in the long run.

Even as we behave in this somewhat petty and parental manner, we should not forget what brought most of us to examine the clouds and seas and sunshine and storms in the first place: Our sense of wonder. Others may focus their thinking to the cramped line-items of musty, budgetary chicanery for a narrow political cause, if they so chose, however the vast truths of creation remains open for the rest of us to witness, and to wonder about, if we so chose.

For example, ice-melt in the arctic may be the sign of many different possible things, including the advent of the next ice age. Open water may not only lose heat to outer space, but might lead to arid regions having increased, glacier-creating snowfalls. There are all sorts of ideas and realities to discuss and wonder about, starting with the surprisingly early snows that just buried the sheep in Iceland.

This September, the farmers of Iceland have something real to panic about. And perhaps that is the most important thing about dealing with truth: To stay real.

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D Böehm
October 2, 2012 4:44 pm

dvunkannon,
You’re very naive. Read Montford’s The Hockey Stick Illusion to see the corruption. Crooked grant committees most certainly exist. In fact, there are vey few where the deck isn’t stacked. Remember Phil Jones? He’s been exonerated. As if. And Michael Mann has been exonerated. Doesn’t matter that he was allowed to meet with the investigation committee beforehand, and helped formulate the questions he was to be asked. He was exonerated.
And tenure is fine. But academics want much more than tenure. They want the next pay raise. They want to be promoted to more prestigious positions. They want to be included in holiday vacations seminars, COP events, and other wonderful travel jaunts to beach resorts and trendy European cities. But if they speak up and tell the truth — that AGW is not proven, but simply a conjecture — they will not get the things they want. And they will eat alone in the faculty cafeteria.
Also, note that the basis for the entire “carbon” scare was Michael Mann’s falsified MBH99 hockey stick graph. Even his pals at Nature were forced to issue a Correction.
Really, you are quite naive about the ways of the world.

JPeden
October 2, 2012 10:39 pm

dvunkannon says:
October 2, 2012 at 2:50 pm
” I agree that open access to data and replication studies are critical. Isn’t that what BEST started as? And how did that turn out, again?”
Imo, the BEST studies have not fared very well at all, 1] concerning the critical question of “mainstream” Climate Science’s specific prediction failure related to the last 15 years involving no GMT warming in the presence of continued atm. CO2 concentration increase – see the joint statement by Drs. Muller and Curry relating to this matter under “Do Judith Curry and Richard Muller disagree?”
http://judithcurry.com/2011/11/13/congressional-climate-briefing-to-push-end-of-climate-change-skepticism/
“We have both said that the global temperature record of the last 13 years shows evidence suggesting that the warming has slowed. Our new analysis of the land-based data neither confirms nor denies this contention. If you look at our new land temperature estimates, you can see a flattening of the rise, or a continuation of the rise, depending on the statistical approach you take.”
And, 2] as to the attribution of any temp increase to CO2 levels obviously hoped for via Best’s introduction of “a new global temperature data product” [McKitrick] and the possible contamination of the temp record itself by “non-climatic biases” [McKitrick] such as land use factors and population/urban heat island effects, Ross McKitrick’s reasoning for recommending rejection of the Best paper’s publication in JGR can be found here:
http://www.rossmckitrick.com/
It appears that BEST has not yet passed the the first tier of peer review necessary for publication anywhere. Many other criticisms have been put forth. Therefore, again, my answer is that BEST has not fared well at all.

Caleb
October 2, 2012 11:34 pm

RE: Larry Ledwick (hotrod) says:
October 2, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Thanks for that link, Larry. A picture’s worth a thousand words.
Imagine that piling up eighty feet thick.
Thanks to all for the comments, especially the ones that add knowledge. Now I’m starting another essay.

Brian H
October 3, 2012 12:11 am

Excellent, except for the noted misquote about (The love of) money. Ponder that one well.
Many superb comments, but I will single out TinyCO2 October 1, 2012 at 1:48 am. Important perspective. The models are very wrong, and certainly cannot be trusted to extrapolate the “meaning” of low NH ice and high SH ice.

October 3, 2012 1:01 am

Reblogged this on Standard Climate.

E.M.Smith
Editor
October 3, 2012 3:00 am

Very well done.
I would point out that some of the Warmers are convinced they are right from first principles (not from money) and they then go looking for justification of their “truth”… That is, they are working more from religious conviction than greed. Still needs a lot of monitoring…
So what happened to the sheep? Did it get a nice barn to spend the winter? And how do they find them under the snow? Just amazing…

dvunkannon
October 3, 2012 8:14 am

@D Boehm – As they say on Jeopardy, you should rephrase your statement in the form of a question. What do I know about the academic process? Well, I review papers intended for publication in my field of expertise. I have friends who write grant proposals for a living. My brother-in-law is a physicist studying superconductivity. My father was a tenured professor. So while most of my personal experience of the academic process is peripheral, it does exist. And yours? I won’t make the same mistake and assume your naivete, that you know what you think you know from reading second hand screeds.
But in any case, I recommend to you the attitude of JPeden, that science is what is published, and stands the test of time, not the name on the author line. Mann, Jones, Hansen and a few others are happily demonized, while the list of names of authors in all papers referenced by the IPCC documents must be hundreds, if not thousands long. They’re all in on the scam? All that research is bogus? Science is corrupt from quantum mechanics and the physics of gases on up? This has all been in motion since the time of Svante Arrhenius?
It is much easier to accept the null hypothesis, that mainstream science is mainstream because it is on the whole correct, and a useful description of the real world. (As they say about alternative medicine, if it worked it wouldn’t be alternative.)
@JPeden – I agree with you, BEST really hasn’t gone anywhere. But is was at least an attempt to do science, rather than blogging and lobbying, to establish the contrary position.
I think there is strong confirmatory evidence that the planet is warming, that atmospheric CO2 levels are rising, that this added CO2 is anthropogenic, and that the added CO2 is the best explanation of the rise in global temperatures. I’m personally quite cautious about the feedbacks, and therefore the “catastrophic” aspect, and don’t think that accepting the science forces you to accept any path forward to handling the issues in the political arena.

D Böehm
October 3, 2012 8:35 am

dvunkannon,
So you will not read The Hockey Stick Illusion. There are lots of folks like you who do not wish to know what is going on behind the scenes.
For the benefit of readers who value the scientific method, the climate null hypothesis (a corrolary of the scientific method) deconstructs the CO2 conjecture. The climate null hypothesis, which has never been falsified, finds that nothing observed today is unprecedented or unusual. It has all happened before, and to a greater degree — during times when CO2 was much lower. In fact, the only provable correlation between CO2 and temperature is that ΔT is the cause of ΔCO2, not vice-versa.
The null hypothesis remains unfalsified, and the alternative conjecture of CO2=AGW remains only a conjecture, with no empirical, testable evidence proving that it exists.
You are correct that the planet is warming. It is recovering naturally from the LIA, and at the same rate; the trend has not accelerated. It has remained constant whether CO2 was low or high. Sorry about your conjecture.

Larry Ledwick (hotrod)
October 3, 2012 12:08 pm

The earlier link I posted on the ice flow is broken now, but I found a second version with the same video.

Larry

Lars P.
October 3, 2012 12:15 pm

dvunkannon says:
October 2, 2012 at 2:50 pm
P. – Retractionwatch is an excellent site! (Full Disclosure: I’ve had dealings with Retractionwatch in connection with an anti-evolution paper.) You wouldn’t happen to know how many climate papers have been retracted, do you? By percent published? Supporting AGW or not? Such a sensitive topic, such scrutiny by hostile skeptics, those papers must be popping up right and left! But you know, when search that site for the word “climate” not much comes up. What’s up with that?
——————
Hehe. Good question dvunkannon. Very interesting. Lets check a bit, why are some papers retracted?
One example here:
“Stapel is suspected of having applied for government grants using imaginary data, according to the report. Investigators also are exploring whether he is guilty of forgery by using forged datasets for research and in the written account of research grants.”
I am not sure, dvunkannon didn’t some climate papers have some issues with data? Where data was not available to enable reproduction? Selection criteria not clarified? Unknown adjustment?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/27/an-open-letter-to-dr-phil-jones-of-the-uea-cru/
http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2012/09/27/immunology-paper-retracted-because-documents-were-not-archived-with-due-diligence/
hm lets look some more:
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2008/8/11/caspar-and-the-jesus-paper.html
http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/invalid-data-prompt-retraction-of-another-paper-from-psychologist-sanna/
Well you are right, WUWT?

JPeden
October 3, 2012 1:05 pm

“I recommend to you the attitude of JPeden, that science is what is published….”
Yes, I agree that real science does have to be pub;ished [smile] and preferably according to the principles of real science, which include making the study’s “materials and methods” readily available for review.
And only if the process of “publishing” does not include the necessity of first having the “climate” science we are talking about here filtered by “peer reviewers” selected by third sources*; hence it can be published on the Internet by the authors themselves, as per what Steve McIntyre does. Then everyone and their mother can review it.
*In the practice of real science, “peer review” by a few selected reviewers was never intended to warrant the “given truth” of that which is then published. Sure, peer review for traditional Publications can screen the science somewhat, or sometimes almost not at all, but it is only after that when the real review is continued, a principle whose value has been amply reconfirmed by the practice of “mainstream” Climate Science.
I cited McKitrick’s review only as an example of some alleged problems with BEST’s “materials and methods” and its conclusions, which have so far prevented its “publication”, at least in a traditional Journal.
[I’m in no position to confirm what McKitrick says although I do basically understand what he is saying. Meanwhile, Muller has gone right into full-believer mode as to the attribution of any recent warming to CO2, something which Dr. Curry currently disagrees with.]

Caleb
October 3, 2012 4:12 pm

dvunkannon says:
October 3, 2012 at 8:14 am
“…Well, I review papers intended for publication in my field of expertise….”
Which is?

dvunkannon
October 4, 2012 8:00 am

@Caleb – Google-fu not working? An arcane intersection of knowledge representation and financial data, centered on the data standard known by the acronym XBRL.
P. – So I asked about retracted papers in ‘climate’ and you respond with examples from immunology and psychology. C’mon it isn’t that hard to enter the word ‘climate’ in the search box… Hmmm, Wegman… Spencer and Braswell… yeah, retractionwatch is really cutting the legs out from under AGW pseudoscience!

Lars P.
October 4, 2012 10:43 am

dvunkannon says:
October 4, 2012 at 8:00 am
P. – So I asked about retracted papers in ‘climate’ and you respond with examples from immunology and psychology. C’mon it isn’t that hard to enter the word ‘climate’ in the search box… Hmmm, Wegman… Spencer and Braswell… yeah, retractionwatch is really cutting the legs out from under AGW pseudoscience!
——————————————
dvunkannon, you dug your head in the sand and say you do not see the data issues. It is your right. You know these issues exists as you so carefully avoided to make any mention about in your post and dug your head deeper. A sort of denial. Well that’s it.
CAGW is pseudoscience, as Ivar Giaever said.
Data not found – papers should be treated like this:
http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/plos-one-gmo-cassava-paper-retracted-after-data-could-not-be-found/
tractionwatch.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/carrion-my-wayward-son-vulture-paper-from-spanish-researcher-suspected-of-misconduct-retracted/

dvunkannon
October 4, 2012 12:17 pm

P. – I didn’t choose retractionwatch as a standard of reference, you did. If there are data problems in a climate paper that merit a retraction, I agree it should be retracted, but don’t bring papers about cassavas as proof about climate science!
The argument that the scientific process works _and_ that AGW supporting science is bogus should be detectable by lots of AGW supporting papers being retracted. Since we don’t see that result, I’d argue that we don’t have support for the idea that AGW papers are bogus. Someone else might prefer to argue that the entire scientific edifice is suspect, but by agreeing that retractionwatch works, I think we are agreeing that the scientific process works – even for climate science.

D Böehm
October 4, 2012 12:30 pm

dvunkannon says:
“I’d argue that we don’t have support for the idea that AGW papers are bogus.”
You would lose that argument with regard to MBH99, Mann08, etc. Those papers were thoroughly falsified by McIntyre & McKitrick, chapter and verse. That indicates that Montford’s The Hockey Stick Illusion has acurately described the self-serving, incestuous clique that runs the climate journal industry.
But since you will not read Montford’s book, you believe what isn’t so.

October 4, 2012 2:05 pm

Caleb says:
October 2, 2012 at 11:34 pm
RE: Larry Ledwick (hotrod) says:
October 2, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Thanks for that link, Larry. A picture’s worth a thousand words.
Imagine that piling up eighty feet thick.

Remember our earlier conversation re Wrangel Island, here’s today’s sat image. Very little sea-ice around now.
http://lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/imagery/single.cgi?image=crefl1_143.A2012278000500-2012278001000.250m.jpg

Lars P.
October 4, 2012 2:19 pm

dvunkannon says:
October 4, 2012 at 12:17 pm
P. – I didn’t choose retractionwatch as a standard of reference, you did. If there are data problems in a climate paper that merit a retraction, I agree it should be retracted, but don’t bring papers about cassavas as proof about climate science!
dvunkannon, you dig your hole deeper. We can see that many papers are retracted if the data is missing, but this does not happen with climate papers. Why? They do not show the data even under FOI request but this is no reason for retraction of warmista papers.
cassavas and others are proof of what should happen with such papers. You ignore this and come with answers as if you would not understand what I say.
BTW you say if “climate papers” are not there, is proof of them being scientifically solid? At first all papers which are now there have started not being there!
Then, if we have an area with a deviation to the usual retraction percentage may show different things.
As said, it is clear you do not want to see, so be happy in your hole, I have my eyes open. We can continue ad absurdum or I let you win the debate – i.e. have the last word – I think Pointman had a post on this warmista tactic: change the subject, build strawman, continue to “tear down” the enemy.
CAGW science? All kind of garbage stays there and none will be retracted if it has the CAGW meme inside:
Farting megafauna caused deglaciation, not Milankovitch, but humans killed farting megafauna and caused Younger Dryas:
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v3/n6/full/ngeo877.html
I wonder who started farting again to end the Younger Dryas period?
thinking of funny papers, was the “drowning bears” paper retracted?
http://www.peer.org/docs/doi/7_28_11_Polar_Bear_paper.pdf
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/29/inspector-generals-transcript-of-drowned-polar-bear-researcher-being-grilled/
Little Ice Age cause by the conquistadores?
http://phys.org/news/2011-10-team-european-ice-age-due.html
No natural climate change existed?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/25/no-global-climate-change-in-the-past-20000-years/
Oh sorry not conquistadores but the green Genghis Khan caused Little Ice Age:
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-weather/stories/was-genghis-khan-historys-greenest-conqueror

October 4, 2012 2:52 pm

…”You almost made me forget to ask about the source of the 15×11 mile pack of icebergs bearing down of that drilling platform in the Chukchi Sea. You certainly don’t believe that they are the remnants of one-year-old Chukchi sea ice that hasn’t melted yet….”
To be honest, I had no idea. Furthermore, people on Greenpeace sites doubted the ice even existed. They checked the Cryosphere map and saw nothing, and concluded Royal Dutch Shell was a bunch of liars. So….I got curious. Wouldn’t you?
Here is part of the conversation I became involved in, with my questions, and the kind and courteous replies from a NSIDC scientist:
“Did a 12 by 30 mile area of ice actually exist, where Royal Dutch Shell said it did?
Yes. I wouldn’t see any reason to mistrust them. Also, in operational ice charts, which track even small isolated floes of ice, the region had been marked as having sparse ice cover.
If it existed, could such ice actually be 82 feet thick, in one spot?
Yes. It’s unusual, but not impossible. The region where that ice came from may have been near Wrangel Island. Sea Ice tends to get pushed up against the northeastern part of the island and it can pile up, or ridge. As winds blow the ice toward the shore, the ice keeps piling up.
When winds reverse, that ice can break away from shore and start drifting in the ocean. These “ridges” can be quite thick – usually ~30-40 feet thick, but 80 feet is possible. I doubt the whole floe was 82 feet thick, but a portion of it was.

Earlier last month some ice that thick ran aground off Barrow, it clearly was originally land ice maybe some similar pieces are drifting around. Some fragments of the Petermann ice island from 2010 are still around.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/unusual-granite-covered-iceberg-spotted-us-arctic
http://www.ec.gc.ca/glaces-ice/default.asp?lang=En&n=0417829C-1&wsdoc=1B226706-42BF-4B94-A481-E9524C81C436
Some one upthread was asking about in situ observations to back up the satellites, here’s one although it suggests over estimate of the ice.
http://iceedge2012.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/more-swells-and-an-itinerant-ice-floe/

D Böehm
October 4, 2012 3:11 pm

Lars,
The climate journal industry is totally corrupt, as we see in the Climategate emails. A.W. Montford documented it well, and it has only gotten worse. There are hundreds, probably thousands of climate papers that reference MBH98. And MBH99. And Mann08, and so on. And further papers have referenced the papers that referenced Mann’s debunked papers.
Many thousands of papers, which based their conclusions on those falsified papers, would lose credibility if Mann’s papers were retracted. So the journal industry cannot retract. The corruption is endemic, and they cannot allow even one link in the chain to be broken.

dvunkannon
October 5, 2012 6:09 am

@D Böehm – Google Scholar says that MBH98 has been cited almost 1500 times. Of course it has had an enormous amount of scrutiny, and was corrected as a result. But the science stands. The best explanation of post-19th century changes in global temperature away from historic trends is the rise in anthropogenic GHG. To return to the topic of sea ice, changes in Arctic sea ice extent also correlates better with AGHG rise than other causes. This is not to say that GHGs are the proximate cause of ice melting, but that there is a chain of cause and effect.
Climate science isn’t Lysenkoism and Michael Mann has not been given a fleet of black helicopters that hover academic campuses worldwide. Corrupt science does exist – look at the anti-vaccination tragedy of lawyers and ex-Dr. Wakefield conspiring; a result which has killed children. Replication and open access to data are keys to good science being confirmed and bad science being retracted.
P. – No, I don’t think the drowning bears paper was retracted. There was a recent thread here on WUWT in regards to the author’s censure, which seems to relate to whistleblowing more than science. I looked at the abstract and figures of that paper online, and I think it is a very minor paper that was inflated all out of proportion by the press and politicians. Which is not the fault of the author, or a reason not to publish.

D Böehm
October 5, 2012 6:29 am

dvunkannon,
To “return to the topic of sea ice”, the IPCC predicted declining ice for both hemispheres. Thus, their models were wrong. Now the alarmist crowd is arm waving over the Arctic. But they are not consistent. When a conjecture is falsified it is time to retract, and re-assess. Instead, the wild-eyed alarmist contingent runs around in circles wailing about the Arctic. Fail, no? Yes.
And your ‘correlation’ with anthropogenic CO2 also fails. You cannot demonstrate any cause and effect. You are simply speculating. That is not science, that is alarmist advocacy. Take your Argumentum ad Ignorantium fallacies elsewhere. This is the internet’s “Best Science” site, not the internet’s “Best Scare” site.

dvunkannon
October 5, 2012 12:36 pm

@D Böehm – I’m not sure what your standards of model acceptance are. We know that Arctic models have not kept up with reality – the ice is disappearing faster than predicted. And how did the models of skeptics do? I guess you’re going to have to throw those out also, right?
Just saying one right and one wrong is too simplistic. In the US, you could get into the baseball Hall of Fame easily if you could bat .500! I suggest that you take your own advice to re-assess. If skeptical researchers want to make headway, they have to show better correlations (that can be read as attributional) than other explanations. Get those studies published! Blogging isn’t going to turn the supertanker.
WUWT has won an internet popularity contest for the title “Best Science Site”, don’t read too much into that. There’s plenty of open access primary literature available on the web, no need to read press releases. Read the real stuff yourself!

richardscourtney
October 5, 2012 2:23 pm

dvunkannon:
At October 5, 2012 at 12:36 pm you say to Böehm

I’m not sure what your standards of model acceptance are. We know that Arctic models have not kept up with reality – the ice is disappearing faster than predicted. And how did the models of skeptics do? I guess you’re going to have to throw those out also, right?
Just saying one right and one wrong is too simplistic. In the US, you could get into the baseball Hall of Fame easily if you could bat .500! I suggest that you take your own advice to re-assess. If skeptical researchers want to make headway, they have to show better correlations (that can be read as attributional) than other explanations. Get those studies published! Blogging isn’t going to turn the supertanker.

Sorry, but that simply will not do!
You start by presenting a ‘straw man’ when you ask, “And how did the models of skeptics do?”
The “skeptics” have not provided climate models because they acknowledge there is insufficient information to construct a realistic model. So, it it is silly to ask how models which do not exist have done.
Then you say that in the Arctic “the ice is disappearing faster than predicted”. That is a failure of the models.
Importantly, the models predicted reduced polar ice and not merely reduced Arctic ice. Antarctic ice and total polar ice have both recently achieved a record maximum in the satellite era. Please note that the increase in Antarctic ice is so great that total polar ice has increased despite the reduction in Arctic ice. This is a complete failure of the model prediction of reducing polar ice.
And the reduction to Arctic ice does not alter the fact that the prediction was plain wrong. Please note that it is NOT “one right and one wrong” prediction because there was only one prediction – i.e. reducing polar ice – and the prediction was wrong.
“Skeptics” do publish despite the difficulties imposed by the “Team” which were revealed in the ‘climategate’ emails.
Please try to post reasoned arguments and/or evidenced information instead of ‘straw men’ and falsehoods.
Richard

dvunkannon
October 7, 2012 5:51 am

@Richardscourtney – Sorry, that simply will not do! Lots of skeptics do have models. Bob Tisdale has a model – ENSO did it. Vuk has a model – solar cycles did it. Cosmic Rays did it. UHI did it. Poor siting did it. There are lots of skeptic models. Are you holding them to the same standard? They can’t all be right!
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
Global sea ice is not at a record. I can’t find a data easily for what you are calling ‘total polar ice’, though I don’t see how adding a constant value for the land ice of Antarctica will change things.