A layman’s view of the strange period of history we are living through
Guest post by Caleb Shaw
During hot spells in the summer I often find it refreshing to click onto Anthony’s “Sea Ice Page,” and to sit back and simply watch ice melt. It is an escape from my busy, sweaty routine, as long as I avoid the “Sea Ice Posts” where people become anxious, political, and somewhat insulting, about the serene topic of ice melting. However by September there is no way to avoid the furor generated by melting ice. It reaches a crescendo.
I used to like the September Panic because I often could hijack a thread by bringing up the subject of Vikings. I’d rather talk about Vikings floating around during the MWP, than a bunch of bergs floating around and melting today.
The September Panic also entertained me because I used to learn about all sorts of things I didn’t know about. The debate always involved people clobbering each other with facts, and hitting each other over the head with links. In the process you’d learn all sorts of fascinating trivia about Norwegian fishermen in the 1920’s, and arctic explorers in the 1800’s, and even some science.
For example, fresh water floats on top of saltier water, unless it is the Gulf Stream, which is saltier water floating on top of fresher water because it is warmer, until it gets colder.
This science crosses your eyes, in a pleasant manner, and leads inevitably to discussions about thermohaline circulation, which is fascinating, because so little is known about it.
It also leads to discussions about how the freezing of salt water creates floating ice that is turned into fresh water by extracting brine, which forms “brincicles” as it dribbles down through the ice at temperatures far below zero and enters the warmer sea beneath. This in turn leads to discussions involving the fact that, with such large amounts of brine sinking, surface water must come from someplace to replace it, and in some cases this surface water is cold, while in other cases it is warm.
The fact the replacing waters can be warmer leads to discussions about the northernmost branches of the Gulf Stream, and how these branches meander north and south. This in turn leads to talk of the unpredictable nature of meandering, the further downstream you move from the original point where the meandering starts, and this, (if you are lucky,) will lead you to Chaos Theory and Strange Attractors.
(In the case of the Mississippi River, the subject of meandering leads you to the Delta, plus the topics of Engineers, New Orleans, and Murphy’s Law.) (In the case of psychology, the meanderings of the human mind leads to the conclusion humans are utterly unpredictable, unless they are psychologists, in which case they obey Smurphy’s Law, which states a psychologist will succumb to whatever ailment he is expert in.)
In conclusion, the September Panic can be a source of fascinating thought, providing you are willing to drift like a berg and wind up miles off topic.
I’ve been through this all before, during the Great Meltdown of 2007, and its September Panic. Those were great times, for in the period 2006-2007 the so-called “consensus” put forward a great propaganda effort, including the movie “An Inconvenient Truth,” and won Oscars, Peace Prizes, and a sound thrashing from Skeptics.
Congress debunked Mann’s “hockey stick” in 2006, an English Judge rebuked Al Gore for falsehoods in his movie in 2007, and also in 2007 Hansen had to back off his “adjustments” due to the work of McIntyre at Climate Audit. When Rush Limbaugh mentioned McIntyre’s victory, Climate Audit was overwhelmed by traffic, which was one reason the existence of WUWT came to be known by me, and many others.
In essence the “consensus” experienced a debacle in 2007, for its attempts at propaganda drew so much attention that all its flaws stood naked in a glaring spotlight, and ordinary people began to understand the emperor had no clothes.
All this happened before the 2007 ice-extent hit its record low, and added a quality of desperation to that year’s September Panic. Desperate for proof, Alarmists felt the low ice-extent proved Al Gore was right, and the IPCC was right, but, by using such dubious and refutable sources, they effectively were putting their heads on a chopping block. Or climbing out on a limb. Or swimming like fish in a barrel. (Take your pick.)
At this point a new word, a word most people had never used or even heard before, became quite common in the climate debates, and the word was “obfuscation.” (It would be interesting to compare how often that word was used in 2007 with how often it was used in 2005.)
The Alarmist’s obfuscation has now persisted for five years, which means that the melt-down of 2012 is a bit boring. It is a case of “been there, done that.” No longer do I often learn things I didn’t know about. One hears the same, tired, old arguments from 2007, and one knows it is hardly worth replying, because Alarmists are not interested in the vast and awesome complexity of a chaotic scientific reality, preferring the simplicity of a “belief,” which they grip with white knuckles.
About the only interesting and new approach on the part of Alarmists is their attempt to misuse psychology, and to make it a way of marginalizing and ostracizing those who point out their mistakes. Though appalling, this is interesting because it seems a perfect example of Smurfy’s Law.
Formerly the definition of “Liberal” was “generous,” and one thing that old-time Liberals were very generous about was giving minority viewpoints a fair hearing. In any discussion of Dams, Deserts and Droughts, they would hear the views of ordinary engineers, meteorologists, and hydrologists, but also insist upon hearing the views of extraordinary Native American rain-dancers. They desired “diversity,” and had contempt towards those who would not consider, or at least be considerate towards, “alternative views.”
Strangely, this concept has now vanished among some who formerly wore the tag, “Liberal.” Gone is their desire for “diversity,” replaced with a fawning regard for the “consensus.” The very same people who sneered at convention when young are now guilty of being the very thing they sneered at: Blindly conventional.
In a way this is a normal part of maturing. Churchill stated something like, “Those who were not Liberal when young had no heart; those who do not become Conservative when older have no brain.”
However there is a significant difference between the ordinary process of maturing, and people who enact Smurphy’s Law. In the ordinary process of maturing there are some core values which endure the battering of youthful idealism, as it gets hammered into the tempered steel of maturity. As the poetry of William Blake is subtly altered from “Songs of Innocence” into “Songs of Experience,” the poetry remains poetry; the heart remains a heart. However, in the case of Smurphy’s Law, those core values either are completely abandoned, or were abandoned in the beginning. (After all, psychology attempts to measure the human spirit with calipers and thermometers, and sometimes has a hard time conceding things such as “heart” and “poetry” even exist.)
At the risk of being poetic rather than scientific, I’ll state that our youthful ideals are like sails that haul us against the wind of a world that can be stormy and can leave our sails in tatters. Our core values are like a keel that keeps us from capsizing, so that even if we lose our hearing like Beethoven did, we still can produce a Ninth Symphony. Without such a keel of core values we can flip-flop, and end up enacting Smurfy’s Law, and see ourselves opposing the very free speech we once stood for.
This, and not the bergs bobbing about in the arctic, is the real melt-down that has occurred, and which we have been witness to. The very people who once were most adamant about free speech are now vehemently opposed to it. The very people who were most open minded to the most bizarre alternative-lifestyles now have minds clamped tighter than clam’s, (certain that they themselves are oysters and hold pearls.)
What a joke. Those who once were Liberals now are not, while those who never wished to be called Liberal now are.
It is a great struggle we are involved with, (defending free speech and open-mindedness,) but it does get tiresome, which is why I occasionally use Anthony’s “Sea Ice Page,” to flee to the North Pole, where I can serenely watch the bergs bob about and melt.
It is a great relief to escape the nonsense of Smurfy’s Law for a time, and to instead consider that which is awe inspiring: Creation is an incredible place, a chaos that has no business being orderly, but is.
Everywhere you look there are marvels too complex for even the hugest computer to handle: The vast meanderings of the Gulf Stream; the mysterious, pulsing appearances and disappearances of huge amounts of water into and out-of Thermohaline Circulation, the metamorphosis of a ripple on a front into the vast circulation of a huge storm with an eye, and so forth, from the deepest depths to the upper atmosphere, and on through solar winds to the sun.
Of course, even when you think you have escaped the bother of petty politics for a while, you’re liable to get dragged back to reality, even when hiding up in the Arctic.
For example, the Cryosphere Today map will show open ocean, as you read a news item about a fifteen-by-eleven-mile pack of bergs, containing ice as much as eighty feet thick, closing down a drilling operation in that area of “open ocean.”
http://www.adn.com/2012/09/10/2619205/shell-halts-chukchi-sea-drilling.html
At this point I always feel I am being dragged kicking and screaming from the sublime to the ridiculous. I “don’t want to go there,” but I have to.
In a way it reminds me of being the father of teenagers. They might tell me they were heading down to the Public Library to study, but I would get to thinking that such study seemed a bit out of character, so after a half hour I’d go check the Public Library to see if they really were there.
It is a sad state of affairs when you cannot take scientists at their word, and have to go check up on them as if they were teenagers, however some have earned this disgrace: They cannot be trusted. And this besmirches other scientists, good and honorable men who are just trying to do their work, but who suddenly notice a layman like me scowling over their shoulder. (Ever try to work with someone hovering over your shoulder? Half of the time it makes your hammer hit your thumb.)
Unfortunately science has earned such scrutiny. I no longer trust that the Arctic Ocean is ice-free just because Cryrosphere Today maps it as ice-free. I double check, using perhaps the DMI sea-surface-temperature map:
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/satellite/index.uk.php
And I am then puzzled by the fact this map shows sea-surface-temperatures below the freezing point of salt water for large areas the Cryosphere map shows it as open ocean.
So I say the heck with maps, and resort to my lying eyes. The North Pole Camera has drifted far south of the pole, into Fram Strait. You can tell where the camera is by using the Buoy Drift Track Map at
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/DriftTrackMap.html
And this shows you that, according to various Cryosphere maps, the camera should either be showing half ice and half open water, or should show a nice view of fishes at the bottom of the sea. Instead it has a view of ice in all directions, with the summer’s melt-water pools freezing over, when the camera’s lens itself is not frosted over. When you check the site records you notice that, even though it has drifted south of 82 degrees north, temperatures have at times dipped below minus ten Celsius.
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/819920_atmos_recent.html
At this point you start to feel a bit like the father of a teenaged daughter who has discovered their child is not at the Library, who wonders where the heck the girl has gone.
One can continue on to the satellite view, which, if clouds are not in the way, shows the “open ocean” is remarkably dotted by white specks of ice.
Though one could perhaps then argue about whether the bergs amount to more-than or less-than 15%, and whether this means the water is officially defined as “open ocean” or not, such quibbling is a bit like discovering your teenaged daughter flirting at the ball field, and having her argue that the fact she has a book with her makes the ball field a “library.”
One simply has the feeling that truth is being stretched dangerously close to its limits.
Considering young scientists usually begin filled with idealistic zeal, and hunger and thirst for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it seems a wonder they can wind up stretching truth and resembling a psychologist suffering from Smurphy’s Law. How could they sell out to such a degree?
The reason for selling out is always the same: Money.
I can not say for certain that, when I was young and sleeping in my car, I would not have been tempted by a grant for 1.7 million dollars. Perhaps even Beethoven would have been tempted to make pizza, rather than the Ninth Symphony, if someone had offered him 1.7 million dollars. (One interesting short piano work of Beethoven’s is entitled, “Rage Over A Lost Penny.”) Money is the root of all evil, and when we see scientists swayed by their patrons we should perhaps say, “There but for the Grace of God go I.” (And also, “Blessed are the poor.”)
In any case, it seems we live in a time when some scientists are working under the thumbs of benefactors and patrons who desire results presented with a certain political “spin.” If it is possible to present data concerning the melt of the Arctic Ice Cap in a way that makes it look more extreme, because this may make a carbon tax more possible, the scientist will be under great pressure to do so.
The scientist is in essence working with a frowning boss scowling over his shoulder. The only way we can counter-balance this effect is to also look over his shoulder, and give the poor fellow the sense that “the whole world is watching.” This will likely make scientists miserable, and also make them yearn for the days when they were ignored and could work in peaceful obscurity, however it will also keep them honest, which is for the best for all, in the long run.
Even as we behave in this somewhat petty and parental manner, we should not forget what brought most of us to examine the clouds and seas and sunshine and storms in the first place: Our sense of wonder. Others may focus their thinking to the cramped line-items of musty, budgetary chicanery for a narrow political cause, if they so chose, however the vast truths of creation remains open for the rest of us to witness, and to wonder about, if we so chose.
For example, ice-melt in the arctic may be the sign of many different possible things, including the advent of the next ice age. Open water may not only lose heat to outer space, but might lead to arid regions having increased, glacier-creating snowfalls. There are all sorts of ideas and realities to discuss and wonder about, starting with the surprisingly early snows that just buried the sheep in Iceland.
This September, the farmers of Iceland have something real to panic about. And perhaps that is the most important thing about dealing with truth: To stay real.
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Blast. I wrote “CASW” when i meant CAGW and worse wrote “ minimum freezing point is -2ºC” when i meant MAXIMUM freezing point is -2ºC.
dvunkannon says:
October 1, 2012 at 2:42 pm
And ice forming in the dark cancels ice melted in the sun? Err, no. About as much as rain falling in the Pacific Northwest ‘cancels out’ sunshine in Death Valley.
==========
That is the logic of using global average temperature as a measure of climate. Thus if one spot on earth was 10 billion degrees, and the rest of the earth was -100 degrees, the climate would be about the same it is today.
The climate in the Pacific Northwest hasn’t changed in the past 60 years. Still wet and cold in the summer, and wet and colder in the winter. Anyone else seen actual climate change where they live? I’ll vote for the Pacific Northwest changing from temperate rain forest to sub-tropical desert.
Robert A. Taylor, it seems Caleb was not speaking of a graphic but speaking of actual buoy data as:
(see his link)
‘ some who formerly wore the tag, “Liberal.” ”
Aside from members of the Liberal Party, who wore the tag “Liberal”?
I can get Jo Nova’s site, but I can’t post comments on it.
Monday’s are my rough day, but it’s quite a delight to sit down at the end of a Monday and see 126 comments at 9:40 PM, Eastern Daylight Savings Time. (Which reads 6:40 PM in the time zone of this blog.)
I replied briefly during my lunch break, when there were something like sixty comments, which I could only skim in a speed-reading manner. At this late hour I can only skim the sixty further comments, and can’t possibly reply as I would like to do.
I really enjoy the flattery. However I also enjoy the challenges. The flattery is pleasing because it encourages me to keep sharing my thought, while the challenges encourages me to keep thinking.
I find great pleasure in the ebb and flow of thought at this site. When a weakness in my ideas is exposed, I of course immediately start thinking of whether the weakness can be defended, whether the idea can be repaired, or whether I should be humble and confess the weakness is a fatal flaw, for that particular idea. However one really neat thing about sifting through 120 comments is that sometimes, even before I can get around to thinking about a particular challenge to my way of thinking, someone else leaps to my defense, and rebuts the challenge. It is a bit like having a free lawyer.
Of course there is no defense for spelling a word I myself coined two different ways. The correct spelling, I suppose, is “Smurphy’s Law.”
I thank “highflight56433” for the link to “Rage Over A Lost Penny.” It was good to sit back and listen to that, with my mother-in-law, wife, and three grandchildren, after a long Monday. It’s really something to realize a genius like Beethoven could be pestered by banal stuff like needing a penny, and having misplaced it. What is even greater is the fact he took that aggravation and made music of it.
Hopefully, (in a small way like Beethoven with his lost penny,) my essay made a sort of music, or poetry, out of the aggravation I feel about the political side of Global Warming. I don’t want to be part of the muck or the muck-slinging, but rather to be one of the crowbars that pry us out of the muck.
I really enjoy the comments that bring the focus back to the topic of what the ice, and lack of ice, may mean. I say “may mean,” rather than “does mean,” because I feel we are pioneers in a new field. Or, to be more specific, a thousand new fields.
When I was a kid there was no such thing as a satellite, and the idea of continental drift was not accepted. Computers? Ha! However we are now on the verge of amazing possibilities, as long as we forge ahead bravely, and don’t cower into some freaked-out retreat into a future stone-age. (Which some environmentalists seem to desire.)
Forging ahead is no big thing. It is simply focusing on what the facts face us with. That is why I enjoy the comments about the current situation, and what it may mean. I’ve enjoyed the recent discussions about Arctic ice, versus Antarctic ice, because it is not talk between people who think science is “settled,” but rather is talk between people who crave to understand. As they bicker about small points it reminds us of how much we need to think about, in order to truly grasp our environment.
For example, that discussion made me compare maps of the Arctic with maps of the Antarctic, because the commenters were quibbling about ice at eighty degrees north versus eighty degrees south, and ice at sixty degrees north versus sixty degrees south. I suddenly realized the eighty degrees north is all Arctic Sea, while eighty degrees south is all Antarctic Continent. I also suddenly realized to have ice at sixty degrees south, as it now is in the South Atlantic, is like having ice nearly to the northern tip of Scotland, making walking from Norway to Iceland quite easy. Of course, the Gulf Stream makes this impossible, but if ice could form so far south in the Northern Hemisphere, (which is does do in Hudson Bay, and also, last winter, in the Bearing Straits,) what would that mean, in terms of the concept of “Albedo.”
Albedo was what was being discussed, vehemently and passionately, on WUWT, at that moment. It is not discussed in the same manner on sites where “the science is settled.” I found myself wondering about the fact the sun is closer to earth when the southern hemisphere ice is reflecting while melting, and thinking that maybe, because that ice extends much further north than northern hemisphere ice extends south, it must reflect much more heat.
Meanwhile another WUWT discussion was raging, discussing how much heat was lost by open Arctic water to the Arctic night, and comparing this with the fact the Antarctic can never lose heat in this manner, for open water cannot exist south of 75 degrees.
I’m not arriving at any particular conclusion. I’m just wondering, and enjoying the process of wondering, for I think wonderment is a good thing. It indicates a healthy respect for chaos, which is what reality consists of. It demonstrates an ability to face facts, rather than having to depend on a preconception. Not that I am against having a theory. However even Einstein knew his theories were not the Ultimate Answer, and knew enough to be humble.
It is no sin to be humble, and you better damn well be humble, if you have the audacity to try to predict the weather. The fact is, you will be wrong. Even the best weathermen are wrong, (just like even Babe Ruth struck out.) (In fact, Babe Ruth struck out a lot, and so do great forecasters.)
The most recent comment, as I write, is from Robert A Taylor, asking me to please clarify what I am suggesting about the specific subject of whether or not there is ice, in an area Cryosphere Today calls “less than 15% ice covered.”
Gosh! I never expected to be seen as such an authority! And, if truth must be known, and I must be humble, I muststate I am in no way, shape, or form such an authority. I’m just a guy who wonders.
My curiosity was tickled by the fact there is a Russian map which showed more ice than the Cryosphere map. When I brought this up on WUWT I did so in an unwise manner, and got soundly thumped by a fellow who pointed out the fact I was a moron and several other unintelligent things, because I didn’t notice that the Russian map involved waters with less than 10% ice, while the Cryosphere map involved 15% ice. I thanked the fellow, for enlightening me, and reducing the chance of my being a moron in the future, ever so slightly.
However curiosity kills this cat, and soon I was wondering how much of the Arctic Ocean was 5% ice-covered. Is there a map for that?
You have to admit that, even if we are talking about a sea that is only 1% ice-covered, that is a lot different from the blue waters of the Caribbean. I was hungry for more knowledge, and did my best to find out.
It is not like I can afford to fly up there and see for myself. I have a hard enough time even loading the arctic satellite pictures into my slow computer, so I can squint at bergs from outer space. However I can poke about the internet and send emails, and did get some polite and helpful answers.
I’m planning to write another essay about what I’ve learned. However, in a nut-shell, the short version is this:
There are guys who have flown out over the Arctic Ocean after the August Storm and even later this September, and south of 80 north it is very open. However it is not entirely “ice-free.” There can even be bergs eighty feet thick. So don’t cruise about up there at top speed, if you own a Titanic.
However if Robert A Taylor wants to know about the arctic, he should do what I did. Ask Royal Dutch Shell and Greenpeace. See how far that gets you.
It will give you stuff for a humorous essay, which I hope to write, but not much that actually teaches you about the facts, and the current arctic reality. To get that stuff go places such as NSIDC. If you are as lucky as I was, you’ll find someone more interested in actual facts than lawsuits and politics.
And man O man! Is it ever a breath of fresh air!
“Even more confusing is that when a world-reknowned biologist, Steve Jones, warns that climate change is a real and present danger, they of course believe him as a trusted source, but when the same man says the GM food is completely safe, this being his actual area of expertise, then they reject what he has to say.”
Incidentally those on the pro CAGW side actually flip that argument 180 degrees the other way around.
They declare “How can you skeptics reject what science has to say about man caused warming on the one hand but on the other hand you completely accept what science says about GM foods being safe?”
Ferd Berple: “The climate in the Pacific Northwest hasn’t changed in the past 60 years. Still wet and cold in the summer, and wet and colder in the winter. Anyone else seen actual climate change where they live? I’ll vote for the Pacific Northwest changing from temperate rain forest to sub-tropical desert.”
I’ve only been out here 10 years, but there’s been a change with the last few years of La Nina. When I arrived, the first 6 years or so were warm and dry in the summer, cool, not terribly cold, and wet in the fall and winter. Where I live on Whidbey Island, annual precip is about 26″, pretty low really, hardly a rainforest. Seattle gets about 10″ more annually than I do, about 70 miles south of me.
But the last few years have brought bitter cold in November and December, then much more mild for the rest of the winter. Very cool springs and summers. Definitely different than from 2002-2007.
Jeff Alberts says:
October 1, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Definitely different than from 2002-2007.
=======
Have a look at the past 25 years. No change. Wet and cold, mixed with longer periods of wet and cold.
http://vancouver.weatherstats.ca/periods/25years.html
Of course, the above stats are Canadian. They don’t have Hansen/GISS historical adjustments, which likely explains why we are not showing the “correct” amount of global warming in Canada.
Brilliantly written, Caleb:
When following your link to Arctic SSTs, you almost made me forget that a mixture of sea ice and salt water remains at its freezing point (ca -2 degC) until all of the ice melts. The maps of sea ice put out by Cyrosphere Today show a line where ice coverage is about 15%. SSTs will remain at -2 degC long after the Cyrosphere Today shows they crossed the 15% line. Today, the temperature off of the coast of Alaska – where sea ice usually visibly retreats from the coast in late June – is still only +2 degC. It sure takes a long time for the Arctic Ocean to warm up.
You almost made me forget that the same space-based technology that is reporting a new low for sea ice coverage in the Arctic is also reporting a new high in the Antarctic. If the scientists working on this project were corrupted by politics or the pursuit of grant money, why didn’t they arrange for a September panic from both poles? It certainly would have been easy to distort the calibration as data collection switched from one satellite to another and thereby create the illusion of a downward trend at both poles. The talented Jeff Id (and presumably many others) looked at this data recently without blogging about any serious problems.
You almost made me forget to ask about the source of the 15×11 mile pack of icebergs bearing down of that drilling platform in the Chukchi Sea. You certainly don’t believe that they are the remnants of one-year-old Chukchi sea ice that hasn’t melted yet. Could this year’s record melt have allowed these icebergs to break loose from one of the few remaining areas of rafted multi-year sea ice? Such icebergs can travel “Titanicly” far from its origins before melting.
Your comment made October 1, 2012 at 6:35 am suggests that you recognize that the Arctic really is going through some significant changes and that not all climate scientists behave like sleazy politicians. I often wonder what ordinary climate scientists think about their politicized colleagues. Would they think your unnecessarily indiscriminate and cruel remarks were as inappropriate for them as the denier label is for us?
RE: Frank says:
October 2, 2012 at 1:05 am
“…Would they think your unnecessarily indiscriminate and cruel remarks were as inappropriate for them as the denier label is for us?”
I sure hope so. If I was indiscriminate and cruel. However I also said, “…this besmirches other scientists, good and honorable men who are just trying to do their work…” So I guess it is up to the reader to decide whether they themselves are one of the good scientists, or one of the bad ones, or a mix of the two.
…”You almost made me forget to ask about the source of the 15×11 mile pack of icebergs bearing down of that drilling platform in the Chukchi Sea. You certainly don’t believe that they are the remnants of one-year-old Chukchi sea ice that hasn’t melted yet….”
To be honest, I had no idea. Furthermore, people on Greenpeace sites doubted the ice even existed. They checked the Cryosphere map and saw nothing, and concluded Royal Dutch Shell was a bunch of liars. So….I got curious. Wouldn’t you?
Here is part of the conversation I became involved in, with my questions, and the kind and courteous replies from a NSIDC scientist:
“Did a 12 by 30 mile area of ice actually exist, where Royal Dutch Shell said it did?
Yes. I wouldn’t see any reason to mistrust them. Also, in operational ice charts, which track even small isolated floes of ice, the region had been marked as having sparse ice cover.
If it existed, could such ice actually be 82 feet thick, in one spot?
Yes. It’s unusual, but not impossible. The region where that ice came from may have been near Wrangel Island. Sea Ice tends to get pushed up against the northeastern part of the island and it can pile up, or ridge. As winds blow the ice toward the shore, the ice keeps piling up.
When winds reverse, that ice can break away from shore and start drifting in the ocean. These “ridges” can be quite thick – usually
~30-40 feet thick, but 80 feet is possible. I doubt the whole floe was 82 feet thick, but a portion of it was.
When an area is reported to be “less than 15%” ice-covered, can it have masses of ice this large in it?
It’s possible. The floe was 12 x 30 miles, which is ~20 x 50 km. While the grid cells of our output sea ice data are 25 km x 25 km, the actual resolution (“footprint’) of some of the input data is as low as 45 x 70 km. So the floe would make up only ~30% of that “footprint” if it was wholly within one footprint. If it is shared between more than one footprint, then it could easily be near or below the 15% threshold within each sensor footprint. Another factor is that during melt, our concentration estimates tends to be biased low. Usually this doesn’t affect the extent (>15%) much, but when there are isolated small floes present, they can potentially be missed.”
So you see, Frank, there are some really cool scientists in this world. However there are also some frauds. Let’s treat the good ones well, and throw the bums out.
I have saved Caleb’s post for posterity and for future reference and to send it to my grown-up sons and also to my friends, but most of all to my climate ‘enemies’.
My reply to “Frank” may have wound up in the spam filter.
Here is a neat video of sinking brine freezing starfish: http://www.wimp.com/underwatericicle/
This makes me wonder. When the arctic refreezes, how much brine sinks? Does it happen as a sudden pulse, between October and December, and then slow down? Would such a pulse give thermohaline circulation a sort of heart beat?
@Gunga Din
I think your /sarc tag is missing! Or I hope it is. Global Warming (like the future) is here but unevenly distributed. Whoodathunkit?
@ferdberple – I share your concern for over reliance on global average statistics. Perhaps you educate Lucy Skywalker on that issue, it was she that believed Antarctic ice “cancels out” Arctic ice loss.
Since this is probably the last “sea ice” post for quite a while I thought I better inject this here and now.
Here is an interesting relationship that appeared while thinking of how much excess evaporation might have occurred due to the decrease in extent over 2011. Turns out there were actually less area-days exposed this year than last year as you can see in the graph. That does make perfect sense since the extent during the half of the year from Sept.16,2011 – Sept. 15, 2012 was rather extra high, nearly normal.
This chart can also be viewed as how much of the Arctic Ocean was exposed for additional absorption of radiation (less albedo). Seems 2011 was the highest year though 2011 and 2012 are very close to the same value.
http://i45.tinypic.com/v7cemw.png
You asked if anyone had noticed a change. I noticed a change and mentioned it. I’m sure it’s part of the natural cycle for the region, but there has been a change.
I don’t put much stock in “global” or even regional average temperature data, because averaging temperatures over different areas is meaningless.
@Caleb
So in the OP you clutch the pearls over money loving scientists, and in the comments you admit some are OK. How sweet. Caleb, would you care to speculate in broad percentages how many scientists and how much of the published peer reviewed literature related to climate falls into each category? Is it 90% ‘publish crap to curry favor with grant review committee” to 10% “let’s discover something new today!!” or is it 60-40 or what? Who is more at risk for publishing their honest findings, a tenured professor or an “employed at will” scientist working for an oil company?
And since you used the word, care to name a scientist that you think is a fraud?
@climatereflections – You ask:
I think 2005 and 2007 were the years of the previous record minimum.
A magnum opus, Caleb. How are you going to beat that now? I loved the parable of the lost sheep at the end, moved me to tears.
The eighty-foot thick berg you mention reminds me of what happened during the great “melt-down” of 2007. Over the summer, while half the arctic ice cover disappeared, the other half thickened! During the summer? Over vast swaths it actually doubled in thickness when it was supposedly melting. What’s up with that?
Turns out that much of the “melt-down” had nothing to do with melting. The wind and ocean currents that year were such that huge quantities of ice became concentrated in a relatively small area, piling up. Ironically, it may even have meant that there was LESS melting than usual because the thicker ice has less surface area per volume.
It makes me wonder if there’s a chance … just a whisker of a chance, mind you … that this year’s ice is doing something similar.
Incidentally, I prefer to eschew obfuscation.
dvunkannon says:
October 2, 2012 at 8:08 am
Is it 90% ‘publish crap to curry favor with grant review committee” to 10% “let’s discover something new today!!” or is it 60-40 or what? Who is more at risk for publishing their honest findings, a tenured professor or an “employed at will” scientist working for an oil company?
Nice use of ye olde “strawman”! But, briefly, the proof of the scientific merit of what an author publishes is always in the making and taste of the pudding, not in who pays for the pudding or whether s/he is tenured – it is in whether the author follows the principles and method of real science: the first is – of course following the author’s own sceptical examination of his/her hypotheses, methods and data, and conformance of these with known reality to begin with to try to find out if something’s already wrong somewhere – whether the scientist’s “materials and methods” are available for a thoroughly sceptical analysis by anyone who wants to do it and wants to indeed find something wrong with it, because in large measure that is the “science” involved and withstanding anyone’s review of it is a big test of that science; then there’s always the small matter of “prediction success” where the failure of specific predictions according to the scientist’s hypotheses can falsify the hypotheses even if the “materials and methods” pass the test, because it then becomes obvious that something is wrong somewhere in the “science”.
But getting back to the strawman, just who is the “employed at will scientist working for an oil company” of whom you speak, especially compared to the rampant and scientifically bizarre [“crap”], as per the above, grant-funded “peer reviewed” papers we are deluged with a.k.a. “mainstream” Climate Science and likely presented by even tenured scientists? [I don’t really care if they’re tenured.]
dvunkannon says:
October 2, 2012 at 8:08 am
@Caleb
So you see, Frank, there are some really cool scientists in this world. However there are also some frauds. Let’s treat the good ones well, and throw the bums out.
So in the OP you clutch the pearls over money loving scientists, and in the comments you admit some are OK. How sweet.
————————————————
There are enough such “scientists” here just the ones who surfaced:
http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/
And now dvunkannon tell me, in the area where the most & biggest grants in the world are, where the money flows n-fold, will there be less then anywhere else? Not to talk about noble cause corruption? Whom do you think you can fool?
n.b., dvunkannon: some “science” which we know has been funded by B.P. and Shell Oil comes out of the U.K. Met Office’s Hadley CRU, featuring “mainstream” Climate Scientist, Phil Jones – who responded to a request for the data relating to his Hadcru temperature reconstruction graphs with something like ~”why should I respond to someone who just wants to find something wrong it?” Later it turned out that he’d actually lost the data ~”while moving”.
@JPeden – If they’re tenured, they can’t be fired for not producing papers that agree with crooked grant committees, if you believe that crooked grant committees exist. I agree with your description of how science does and should work, and don’t think climate science works any differently. Grant committees are not corrupt old boys networks taking orders from Moscow Central. Perhaps you can remind Caleb Shaw of that when next he clutches his pearls. I agree that open access to data and replication studies are critical. Isn’t that what BEST started as? And how did that turn out, again?
@Larry Plume P. – Retractionwatch is an excellent site! (Full Disclosure: I’ve had dealings with Retractionwatch in connection with an anti-evolution paper.) You wouldn’t happen to know how many climate papers have been retracted, do you? By percent published? Supporting AGW or not? Such a sensitive topic, such scrutiny by hostile skeptics, those papers must be popping up right and left! But you know, when search that site for the word “climate” not much comes up. What’s up with that?
Oooguruk Island June 23rd 2009
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/6/oooguruk-island-june-23rd-2009-790036.html
It certainly seems possible to me.
Larry