![antarctic.seaice.color.000.thumb[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/antarctic-seaice-color-000-thumb1.png?resize=320%2C320&quality=75)
As you may know, I have been using Cryosphere’s Antarctic Sea Ice Area data to show the record levels of Antarctic Sea Ice.
But I just found another data set, NOAA’s Sea Ice Extent here. (thanks to commenter HaroldW at the Blackboard)
And it turns out day 265 set an all time record, and then day 266 (Sept 22nd) broke that record. Days 265 through 270 are now the 6 highest Antarctic Sea Ice Extent’s of all time (in the satellite record)!
11 of the top 15 extents are now in 2012.
Anyone wonder why NOAA isn’t making a fuss about this?
| Year | Day of Year | Ice Extent |
| 2012 | 266 | 19.45418 |
| 2012 | 268 | 19.4478 |
| 2012 | 267 | 19.44631 |
| 2012 | 270 | 19.4433 |
| 2012 | 269 | 19.41601 |
| 2012 | 265 | 19.36135 |
| 2006 | 264 | 19.35934 |
| 2012 | 257 | 19.35567 |
| 2012 | 271 | 19.35207 |
| 2006 | 267 | 19.34999 |
| 2012 | 264 | 19.34204 |
| 2012 | 259 | 19.33522 |
| 2006 | 265 | 19.3289 |
| 2006 | 268 | 19.32669 |
| 2012 | 258 | 19.31503 |
Antarctic appear to be directly plugged into solar activity
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/TMC.htm
with decline in the solar output it would be reasonably to expect increase in the ice coverage
Curious says:
September 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Curious,
If you want a site that is mostly unbiased data (referenced with links) and fact (or as close as you can get in the climate debate) with a small amount of opinion (in the ‘reflections’ section), may I suggest you go to:
http://www.climate4you.com
Read the ‘about this blog’ section and then feast on as much data as you want. It’s a very good place to start. If you want an opposite view, try ‘scienceofdoom’. Both sites are ostensibly science based. I’ll let you decide which way you want to lean.
However, I would also advise that you
1. question everything
2. Accept only fact, not assumption
3. Try to rationalise the debate from distance, rather than getting embroiled in the ‘he said, she said’ stuff.
For what my opinion is worth…
Arfur
forget the MSM – their interests lie elsewhere:
29 Sept: MSNBC: Could asteroid dust counter climate change on Earth?
Sounds crazy: Scientists suggest anchoring space rock between us and the sun
To combat global warming, scientists in Scotland now suggest an out-of-this-world solution — a giant dust cloud in space, blasted off an asteroid, which would act like a sunshade for Earth
The main challenge of this proposal would be pushing an asteroid the size of Ganymed to the sun-Earth L1 point…
The scientists will detail their findings in the Nov. 12 issue of the journal Advances in Space Research
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49226984/ns/technology_and_science-science/
fitzgerald writes a column 3 times a week on any and every subject under the sun, but he knows best:
30 Sept: Stockton Record Calif: Michael Fitzgerald: Believe it or not, climate change is a reality ag must face
In the past few days, the media reported that climate change threatens Valley crops. What is interesting about this is most Valley farmers don’t believe in climate change…
A recent University of California, Davis, study found Valley “chilling hours” – cold temperatures required by many crops (including cherries) – have declined up to 30 percent.
“Usually there’s two sides to the scientific data, too,” (cherry grower Bruce) Fry said. “Just like in statistics, you can manipulate that one way or the other.”
***Fry has been keeping records of chilling hours back to the 1990s. His data shows no warming trend.
***”This year we had a beautiful crop,” Fry said.
Global warming denial would seem to set Valley agriculture up for a huge fall…
So why deny?
Of course, reasonable people can disagree; climate skeptics may be right. But I believe they are wrong, and more, that their wrongness says something about the Valley…
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120930/A_NEWS0803/209300317
Chad Wozniak says:
September 29, 2012 at 11:13 pm
To be honest, I don’t think Curry can renounce the AGW meme because she has been wrapped up in it for so long.
I strongly suspect she is secretly waiting/hoping/praying that new science findings (the real ones, not the psuedo science BS) will ‘save her face’ because she (and others on the team),know FULL WELL they have operated a ‘bad science’ regime.
Should new truthful findings show the scam/sham of the CAGW team – they can all sit back and say ‘Oh, well, we didn;t know THAT’, ‘Not our fault’, etc, etc
That way, their scam/sham will be ‘forgotten’…and they will keep their jobs, pensions, etc……..safe in the knowledge that their bad science/fraud will not be questioned again!
It’s really sad that they don’t have the decency to even admit their own failures and confirmation biases NOW, and the whole episode has and will hopefully be remembered as ‘bad for science’ so future generations may learn. But in practise, the miserable frauds will probably survive intact IMHO, that is the way I think it will all pan out……..make me very very angry…………
Curious,
I’d have a look at numberwatch.co.uk as well as John Daly’s site. John Brignell’s been keeping an updated list of everything that’s going to be caused by global warming for many years now (and was the first place I read about greenflation and the coming economic bust – at least 10 years ago anyway).
Basically to summarise alarmism, take whatever weather you already have too much of (heat, drought, rain, floods, cold, whatever) and global warming will give you more of it.
“Anyone wonder why NOAA isn’t making a fuss about this?”
Their silence speaks volumes.
Henry says also @ur momisugly Pat, Curious
Interesting. When such a report comes in, I always go back to my tables, of which we now know that the fall in maxima is the most reliable variable to look at ( = all results of 47 weather stations summarized, balanced by latitude to as close to zero as possible and see/inland 70/30)
I note that maxima in the NH dropped from 0.028 degrees C / annum since 1974 to -0.022 since 2000
That means we fell by 0.05 degrees C per annum absolute in the NH.
I note that maxima in the SH dropped from 0.043 degrees C / annum since 1974 to -0.010 since 2000
That means that here too we fell by about 0.05 degrees C per annum absolute,
Both results would suggest we are currently falling by that same amount per annum on both hemispheres.
However, putting all the maxima in a sine wave, best approximation with wavelength 88 years, I get that we are currently cooling at a rate of about -0.04 degrees C per annum, globally, on the MAXIMA
I think as correctly surmised in the whole discussion we recently had on the arctic sea ice, we had a very big storm in the arctic that may have given us the false impression that the arctic is still warming.Note that such a storm does release a lot of energy due the the condensation of water.
The truth of the current situation is different: ask the tomato farmers in Anchorage where (mean) temps. dropped by about 1.5 degrees C since 2000.
Pat is completely right. The idea that CFC’s caused the drop in ozone was a red herring.
I did find a correlation that shows increasing maxima against decreasing ozone and decreasing maxima against increasing ozone; it checked out that way on both hemispheres, at exactly the same times in history. I think the reason for this is the change in chemical reaction (top of the atmosphere) of UV with NOx, HOx and Ox due to a small change in the distribution of energy, mainly in the UV region, coming from the sun. In turn this changes the shield of earth: if there is more ozone & others, there is more back radiation of high energy light by the ozone & others, so the oceans (mainly) get a little less energy.
Hope this gets a few people started in doing some research on that….
by “record” do you mean if you ignore the extent?
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png
Well, it’s a dry cold, so you barely notice it…..
More importantly, all the Antarctic sea ice is…. Um…..thin ice, so it really doesn’t count…
Moreover, the record growth of Antarctic ice extent is perfectly consistent with global warming models, which consistently project both growing and shrinking Antarctic ice, depending on the current reality, so as to avoid confusion and bias.
Curious.
I have a scientific background, but I am not a climatologist. I got involved with WUWT a few years ago because I had read that mankind was responsible for increasing global temperatures due to increasing CO2 emissions. The CO2 acts like a greenhouse preventing heat from radiating back into space so we end up cooking ourselves. Then the “Runaway Greenhouse Effect” was trumpeted where temperatures rise even more sharply causing carbonate rocks to break down and put even more CO2 into the atmosphere. Then CO2 dissoved in water on the Earth comes out of solution (in general cold liquids can hold more gases in solution than hotter liquids, it is the opposite for solids) so more CO2 enters the atmosphere. At this point, so we were told, the effect is irreversible, it becomes a positive feedback, which in science is always destructive. We would eventually have a planet that is lifeless, with temperatures of several hundred degrees, just like Venus.
I was horrified, but then having an enquiring mind (like yours) I did some reading and found the following:
1) Venus has an atmosphere consisting mainly of CO2 and a surface temperature which averages 462 celsius. BUT it’s atmosphere is 90 times denser than ours (about the same pressure as exists in our oceans at a depth of a 7/10ths of a mile!
Common sense tells me that there is not that much CO2 on our planet, nor if we burned all the fossil fuels, forests and anything else combustible is there ever likely to be. The warmists quietly dropped the Venus analogy a few years ago when they realised it was making them sound ridiculous.
2) The percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere is about 0.038%, in other words 99.962% is not CO2. How can increasing that by let us say 100% (note the figures here, this seems like a massive increase) affect the climate? CO2 is now 0.076%, but 99.924% of the atmosphere is not CO2. Common sense tells me that climate is not going to change as a result of this, imagine a greenhouse with 10,000 panes of glass, all removed,bar 4, you add another 4. Is that going to affect the temerature in the greenhouse? I don’t think so.
3) The percentage of CO2 in prehistory was a lot higher in the past and a lot lower too but the world did not end.
4) The more CO2 there is in the atmosphere even at these tiny percentages, the more the plants love it. They grow faster, so we have bigger crop yields and they take the CO2 out of the atmosphere (this is never mentioned by the doom mongers).
5) There is a lot of money given to researchers into AGW. If AGW is not happening this money dries up, they lose their jobs.
6) Likewise with governments and green taxes, they need to make us feel bad about taking flights and running our cars, so we pay a penance in higher taxes to make us feel better. Personally it makes me feel worse.
7) If goverments and scientists really believe that AGW is happening why are we not building thorium reactors (much safer than uranium). Why is research into fusion reactors not given a huge priority? Because everyone knows it is rubbish and they can give the impression that something is being done by building windmills everywhere to generate electricity from the wind. Because this electricity cannot be stored, backup power stations need to be running to put power into the national grid when there is no wind or too much that prevent thes turbines working. Windmills are cheap because the consumer is paying for them.
8) Anyone who calls other people “deniers” and wants laws passed to make it illegal to question AGW, must have a screw loose. This smacks of fanaticism and has no place in science.
9) Various e-mails, sites for weather stations etc make me doubt any claims of warming, hockey sticks, that the medieval warm period did not exist and all the doom mongering.
10) Electric cars are not environmentally friendly, far from it. Their batteries contain substances that are highly toxic and difficult to dispose of. If the wind is blowing or the sun is shining then they can be charged, cheaply, but more often than not they use power from a fossil fuel power station. Oh, and in winter, the heat byproduct from an internal combustion engine keeps the car warm and windows free of condensation. An electric car will have it’s power drained substantialy by the need to use battery power to achieve the same.
Converting chemical energy (coal or gas) to heat energy, to mechanical energy (steam turbine) to electrical energy (losses in power cables are huge) to charge a battery up and then convert the electrical energy to mechanical energy to propel the car is not as efficient as an internal combustion engine. Chemical energy (petrol) to heat energy to mechanical energy! But electric cars are being sold as better alternatives to petrol/diesel cars.
11) When scientists realise their claims ar not coming true they try to bolster their position with more outlandish claims. We have been treated to some absolute corkers on WUWT.Alien invasion and deaf fish are just two of them
All of the above have made me very suspicious of the claims and motivation of climate scientists and governments. Anthony and the moderators do a great job in informing people about scientific reality, unfortunately mainstream challenge to AGW is not as forthcoming as it should be due to the one factor that has always held mankind back; Apathy!
Best of luck with WUWT in the future, Curious, and I hope my thoughts and opinions have been of some help.
I like
It’s offical!!!
I checked the BBC and The Guardian websites and not a sniff of this being reported anywhere.
Why do I think that failing a new minimum come the Spring melt, percentage ice lost will be the new harbinger of doom?
Is the comparison here between approximately 5 million square km of Arctic sea ice to approximately 18 million square km of Antarctic sea ice? Or does the Antarctic figure include the area of the Antarctic land mass?
From the WashPost:
Antarctic sea ice reaches greatest extent so late in season, 2nd largest extent on recordhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-greatest-extent-so-late-in-season-2nd-largest-extent-on-record/2012/09/28/472625d8-098e-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html
Tis strange the way some believe all this CAGW push with an almost religious fervor. And don’t seem to think the whole thing needs to be understood a little better.
For the record: (and I find it all intriguing in its complexity)
Currently, a difference of only 3 percent (5 million kilometers) exists between closest approach (perihelion), which occurs on or about January 3, and furthest departure (aphelion), which occurs on or about July 4. This difference in distance amounts to about a 6 percent increase in incoming solar radiation (insolation) from July to January.
Currently, northern summer occurs near aphelion.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Milankovitch/milankovitch_2.php
Read Svensmark. His theories call for exactly this occurrence – low Arctic ice and high Antarctic – vice versa.
David Borth says:
September 30, 2012 at 3:59 am
Is the comparison here between approximately 5 million square km of Arctic sea ice to approximately 18 million square km of Antarctic sea ice? Or does the Antarctic figure include the area of the Antarctic land mass?
———————
The Antarctic continent itself is 14.0 million km^2, the NSIDC page says explicitly that it is ‘sea ice extent’ (area of ocean with at least 15% ice).
What annoys me most is that the Arctic and Antarctic sea ice graphs are plotted on different scales. This may at first seem reasonable as there is more Antarctic sea ice anyway but it also gives the visual effect that Antarctic sea ice gain is minimal and Arctic sea ice loss is catastrophic.
You’ll never hear about this in any press, except maybe Fox….
Peter Fraser says:
September 29, 2012 at 10:59 pm
Apparently you see the glass as half empty as I see it as half full, with or without ice. Lighten up.
The usual bias from UK left wing papers,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/sep/17/polar-arctic-meltdown-climate-change
Note how quikly they closed down the blog and the digs at WUWT from a Warmista.
The Warmists are far angrier at this article though,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/30/ice-age-human-survival-alice-roberts
Reality can be so harsh…
well,
it seems to me that the bloggers from the SS (blog) have arrived here to claim we are on thin ice….
With names like SAMURAI in bold capital letters, who would not be afraid of them?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/29/according-to-noaa-data-all-time-antarctic-sea-ice-rxtent-record-was-set-on-sept-22nd-2012/#comment-1095536
A record is set for Antarctica’s ice
A truth inconvenient, but this will suffice.
To nix the decision
“Curb carbon emission”
CO2 is the gas to grow corn, wheat and rice.
Curious, one of the more informative articles relating natural cycles to global temperatures can be found here:
http://www.appinsys.com/globalwarming/SixtyYearCycle.htm