![antarctic.seaice.color.000.thumb[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/antarctic-seaice-color-000-thumb1.png?resize=320%2C320&quality=75)
As you may know, I have been using Cryosphere’s Antarctic Sea Ice Area data to show the record levels of Antarctic Sea Ice.
But I just found another data set, NOAA’s Sea Ice Extent here. (thanks to commenter HaroldW at the Blackboard)
And it turns out day 265 set an all time record, and then day 266 (Sept 22nd) broke that record. Days 265 through 270 are now the 6 highest Antarctic Sea Ice Extent’s of all time (in the satellite record)!
11 of the top 15 extents are now in 2012.
Anyone wonder why NOAA isn’t making a fuss about this?
| Year | Day of Year | Ice Extent |
| 2012 | 266 | 19.45418 |
| 2012 | 268 | 19.4478 |
| 2012 | 267 | 19.44631 |
| 2012 | 270 | 19.4433 |
| 2012 | 269 | 19.41601 |
| 2012 | 265 | 19.36135 |
| 2006 | 264 | 19.35934 |
| 2012 | 257 | 19.35567 |
| 2012 | 271 | 19.35207 |
| 2006 | 267 | 19.34999 |
| 2012 | 264 | 19.34204 |
| 2012 | 259 | 19.33522 |
| 2006 | 265 | 19.3289 |
| 2006 | 268 | 19.32669 |
| 2012 | 258 | 19.31503 |
Inconvenient truth.
Damn inconvenient, indeed
Oh, apologies…my facebook “friend” was ranting about this article: http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/antarctic-ice-area-sets-another-record-nsidc-is-silent/
not about one posted on WUWT. Sorry for the confusion!
Curious,
Low temperature records are set when there is a clear sky. Take the recent record set in Oklahoma last year in Bartlesville. -31F. The ground was covered with snow (blocking heat from the earth), and it was perfectly clear sky. Temperatures dropped to a record low because the heat was radiated to space. However, since CO2 increased so much, this should be impossible. However, it happened. Here’s what the CAGW fanatics don’t get. CO2 is one of may green house gases, with water being number 1. Now if you increase CO2 from 250 ppm to 400 ppm, that seems like a big increase. However if what your are doing is increasing TOTAL greenhouse gases from 2.03% to 2.04%, then that is not even noticeable. Which is why Oklahoma set a record low.
Curious says:
September 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm
“I am new here and very appreciative of the knowledge and open mindedness…”
Ask your friend if he (or she) knows about this:
Hubbard Glacier is defying the global paradigm of valley or mountain glacier shrinkage and retreat in response to global climate warming. Hubbard Glacier is the largest of eight calving glaciers in Alaska that are currently increasing in total mass and advancing. Hubbard glacier is the largest tidewater glacier (76 miles long) in North America. Here’s the link to U.S. Geological Survey Fact Sheet:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-001-03/
Another proof that the Gore effect is real. If my memory hasn’t totally failed me didn’t Big Al and Hansen just recently make a personal visit to Antarctica? We need to donate for funds for him to make a trip to the Arctic and presto CAGW fixed!
This will have to be verified by a commission made up the finest climate change scientists before a definitive statement is released. The information is very preliminary and seems to confirm CAGW. NOAA is releasing grant criteria as we speak.
Man Christian_J., classic! Mind if we clone that disclaimer? That even stands taller than the letters behind a name and says it all.
Eric Worrall says:
September 29, 2012 at 6:02 pm
Our little 2 year old girl just outsmarted us.
We have banned play dough indoors, because it gets embedded in everything – cloth sofas, carpets, you name it.
So today we discovered she was smuggling small pieces of play dough into the house, hidden inside some of her dolls house toys.
I see this as proof of the imminent danger of catastrophic global warming.
==================================================================
Cute. Take a picture of it.
Anyone wonder what the link to CAGW is? That’s all a CAGW-based economy will leave us with, “play” dough.
Curious says:
September 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm
“It happens that Antarctic temperatures are increasing”
Show this to your friend : http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu/news/index.php?id=41
South Pole New Temperature Record
Posted: 2012-06-18
On June 11, 2012 the temperature at South Pole Station in Antarctica was -73.8°C/-100.8°F.
This broke the previous minimum temperature record of -73.3°C/-99.9°F set in 1966.
Good thing smart people are watching and reporting the polar sea ice extent.
It would be a travesty if no one was and all the fluctuations happened without anyone knowing about it.
We would never know when to intervene.
RE:
Phil. says:
September 29, 2012 at 5:56 pm
Anyone wonder why NOAA isn’t making a fuss about this?
Probably because they know that is weather noise on a barely significant trend which their own data tells them is far below the extent observed in the late 70s?
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/fig2-16.htm
*********************************
What are you showing us in the link?
Anomaly up to year 2000.
You are not comparing extent in 2012.
Curious seems to have an alarmist friend with a reading disability.Article clearly states “sea ice area” with no mention of continental ice mass.
Arctic sea ice extent started turning up several days ago as well.
Not terribly surprising – this was predicted as a consequence of global warming in 1991, by Manabe et al 1991 (http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0442%281991%29004%3C0785%3ATROACO%3E2.0.CO%3B2 and http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0442%281992%29005%3C0105%3ATROACO%3E2.0.CO%3B2). See pages 795 and 811 for details of this rather counter-intuitive effect.
Mechanism: additional _fresh_ water on the surface from more melting land ice increases the halocline gradient, reducing upwelling of warmer bottom waters transported from the tropics (the surface being cooled to the air), thus making for more sea ice. In the Southern Hemisphere _winter_, where it doesn’t affect albedo very much (sea ice around Antarctica melting almost _entirely_ during the summer). And an effect that will likely fade in importance with additional warming.
Increased Antarctic sea ice doesn’t balance out the huge decreases in Arctic sea ice, and as I note Antarctic ices is a not surprising effect of warming.
We can’t explain the increase (Antarctic sea ice extent) and it is a travesty that we can’t.
Curious
Glad you realize your friend is filled with scientific garbage. There is no known relationship between ozone levels and ice formation. In fact the CFL conjecture regarding ozone depletion has become a bit iffy in recent years. Some maintain the ozone may always have gone through cycles and we merely discovered the same without understanding all factors. The jury may have to reconvene. Warmists maintain ozone depletion is associated with Arctic ice depletion and Antarctic ice growth. It is unlikely both are true. In fact there is no real science on ozone and surface temperature excepting a hypothesis that the stratosphere will get sharply colder. Of course Warmists also say global warming causes the stratosphere to get colder.
The distinguishing feature between ground ice versus sea ice is the latter much more susceptible to melt because of wind and currents. Speaking of which. That is responsible for the current Arctic decline. Breakup because of weather, and then melt. And note that your friend would consider the melt of southern Greenland to be of extreme importance. Antarctic ice build up? Not so much.
But hysterics go hysterical at anything and have the curious ability to work every catastrophic fad into the grand mal.Your friend can likely discuss for hours GMO, chemtrails, and other grand schemes.
No abnormal weather has occurred in decades. The weather has been surprisingly moderate and historically benign. Likely attributable to the very mild global temperature increase since 1985 or so.
In a ‘movie scene’ I can imagine Mr. Dr. Mark Serreze at NSIDC pounding his fists on his desk and shouting his displeasure.
No NO NOOOOO!
Das Infidel!
NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
He then picks up his phone and calls the President of the United States of America.
[Some negotiation necessary … and ‘careful words … then … Voundarba.]
[His Excellency Mr. Dr. Imperial Mark Serreze] Ah. My Mr. President I am Zo happies to Zpak to Zu.
[Barak Obama at the White House] Well could you speak more clearly … the line seems a broken from our end or something like that.
[His Excellency Mr. Dr. Imperial Mark Serreze] My Dearest Mr. President in the Whole Vorld. Dearest Me. I muzet request a thermonuzular sztrike on Anatarctizua at vonze. Time vi of ezzenze and ve much destry the Infaidel en ark now.
[Barak Obama at the White House] Mr. errr …. Serreze is that it … we … should I say …. the transmittion is breaking up … could you please fax a copy of your request to …. errrrr……
the ‘Mail Room’ here at the White House please. We …. errrr….. well …. It could …. errr ….
might be …. important …. errr ……..
[His Excellency Mr. Dr. Imperial Mark Serreze] Zoooo … my misted beloveded Furer Mr. Execullency President Obama … My you Like be Zlong and Sforphous.
An so it ends. Another distraught entanglement of a deranged citizen of the USA and his beloved President is brought to a quiet and soiled end.
8D
Any decent journalist would be questioning why the big melt in the North but a big freeze in the South? Trouble is we don’t have any decent journalists anymore, just lackeys of the big climate lie…
KR, a contrary point of view is that:
1) Southern Hemisphere SST has a slight negative trend for the last 15 years.
2) Icesat says more land ice.
3) UAH says So_Pol is colder with a negative trend over the last 15 years.
4) If melting land ice causes more sea ice, and Greenland is melting supposedly, why isn’t there more sea ice in the arctic or at least near Greenland and all the large island in northern Canada which have ice sheets on them?
5) The AMO plays a role and I will have an interesting graph in the next day or so.
“… all time Antarctic sea ice extent record …” No, we’re comparing like with like.
The reading you choose will depend on your background. Visit the blogs that Wattsupwiththat links. Find those that ‘speak’ to you. Try to read broadly rather than deeply. Get to know what sounds reasonable. You will get convincing arguments on both sides of the issue that are hard to refute but which don’t pass the smell test if you have broad knowledge of the field.
As an example, I will give you my own conversion to a skeptic. I believed in AGW until Michael Mann presented us with the hockey stick. I had been a student of Viking history. I knew how the climate affected the settlement of Greenland. The hockey stick didn’t pass the smell test so I became curious. Because of my background, the two people who speak most convincingly to me are Burt Rutan and Richard Lindzen. Your background is different and you will find different voices more compelling.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/09/09/a-cool-headed-climate-conversation-with-aerospace-legend-burt-rutan/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/11/18/profess-richard-lindzens-congressional-testimony/
Dear Curious,
I’m not a commenter, I’m a lurker 🙂
But I can definitely empathize with your plight – I faced the same back in the early century and was rescued by the work of one man, John Daly, may he rest in peace – whose site “StillWaitingForTheGreehouse” is still being maintained, I believe by the family. His work, and about 300 hours online on his site, took me, with little science background, to what I still perceive to be a comprehensive overview of the complexities of the Global Climate System. Of course since then I’ve discovered the works of the many, many courageous scientists who are steadily advancing our understanding of this wonderful and mysterious world we live upon…in the face of viscious attacks by the often academically corrupt and compromised.
I got pretty deft at using online research for terms and concepts that were beyond me, but generally his presentation of ideas, and the linked papers he posted while he was with us, are approachable even for the science-challenged, while not sacrificing scientific integrity or over-simplifying the issues. He basically taught me Weather and Climate 101.
Oh…and my conclusion? CAWG is extremely high likelihood a total crock, purely political at this juncture, and if at all a ‘risk’, nothing (or only remotely) related to CO-2 (I’m hedging bets here due still-unknowns like land use, soots and sulfur particulates, (albedo effects) etc) (oh, and HAARP and Chemtrails :o))
This all too typical of the big lie tactic. Totally contradict the truth repeatedly until the 60 % who are basically uneducated in the World believe it out of shear conditioning. These are a vicious minority of powerful elitests who believe its their destiny to rule and enslave what they view as the inferior. This is notin fact about competing scientific ideologies.
CURIOUS
I am not one of the smart people here so can’t really reply to your post — but i can tell you something about warmist “thinking”.
The current warmist dialogue is that summer Artic ice shrinkage is extremely important and proves global warming — and that the increase in Antarctic ice on land and sea is not important.
What you must understand about warmist thinking is that if the observed facts were exactly the opposite — WITH ANTARCTIC ICE ON LAND AND SEA SHRINKING AND SUMMER ARCTIC ICE SETTING NEW RECORDS FOR GREATER EXTENT — then the warmists would be touting the lesser Antarctic ice as extremely important and proving global warming and the increase of summer Arctic ice as not important at all.
That cataclysmic man-made global warming is happening is the conclusion that must always be reached no matter what is observed! That is warmist “thinking” I hope this has been helpful to you.
Eugene WR Gallun
Curious says:
September 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm
If anyone can point me to some good, foundational reading on climate science (without AGW bias),. I would be very grateful. Thanks for reading.
I too am curious, namely because starting from an Antarctic sea ice post you end up asking for readings on climate science.
So first, I suggest you find the search box on WUWT (its under the ad at the top right) and enter “sea ice” – at the bottom of the returned links note that there are older posts to be found. Keep clicking backward until you are several years back, perhaps 5. Then start reading forward, following links to other blogs and papers.
Then you could start with another topic. Your choice. Then note other skeptical-view blogs such as Jo Nova, Climate Audit, and The Reference Frame (the last two can get very technical – you may want to go to your local university and ask at the Physics and Chemistry Departments for a slightly older copy of an introductory text).
Read all the comments so you learn who knows what and how they know what they do. For example, a fellow named ‘tonyb’ knows history. You can take what he says to the bank if he writes that folks froze to death in city x in year n. If you read enough you will learn about the views folks hold and how they treat other folks. You could read at Tamino’s site or at Real Climate for a comparison with the above mentioned ones. A different sort of material can be found at “The Chiefio” site and at Lucia’s The Blackboard.
Anyway, after about 100 to 200 hours of reading, come back and ask more specific questions.
Funny how no matter what happens, KR and his fellow AGW cohorts can always find a prediction that agrees with the current conditions. If the Antarctic had been doing the opposite with a record low, rest assured that too would be “not terribly surprising”, with myriads of references.
Just reach in the magic bag and pull out a prediction that matches reality.
Jeff D says:
September 29, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Another proof that the Gore effect is real. If my memory hasn’t totally failed me didn’t Big Al and Hansen just recently make a personal visit to Antarctica? We need to donate for funds for him to make a trip to the Arctic and presto CAGW fixed!
=====================================================================
If I remember correctly, they went down there at the end of the southern hemispheres “summer”, the best time to get a photo op with glaciers calving. AlGore is a politician after all. So is Hansen it seems.