New evidence of Younger Dryas extraterrestrial impact

From the University of California – Santa Barbara

Study finds new evidence supporting theory of extraterrestrial impact

(Santa Barbara, Calif.) –– An 18-member international team of researchers that includes James Kennett, professor of earth science at UC Santa Barbara, has discovered melt-glass material in a thin layer of sedimentary rock in Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Syria. According to the researchers, the material –– which dates back nearly 13,000 years –– was formed at temperatures of 1,700 to 2,200 degrees Celsius (3,100 to 3,600 degrees Fahrenheit), and is the result of a cosmic body impacting Earth.

These new data are the latest to strongly support the controversial Younger Dryas Boundary (YDB) hypothesis, which proposes that a cosmic impact occurred 12,900 years ago at the onset of an unusual cold climatic period called the Younger Dryas. This episode occurred at or close to the time of major extinction of the North American megafauna, including mammoths and giant ground sloths; and the disappearance of the prehistoric and widely distributed Clovis culture. The researchers’ findings appear today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

“These scientists have identified three contemporaneous levels more than 12,000 years ago, on two continents yielding siliceous scoria-like objects (SLO’s),” said H. Richard Lane, program director of National Science Foundation’s Division of Earth Sciences, which funded the research. “SLO’s are indicative of high-energy cosmic airbursts/impacts, bolstering the contention that these events induced the beginning of the Younger Dryas. That time was a major departure in biotic, human and climate history.”

Microscopic Images of Grains of Melted Quartz

These are microscopic images of grains of melted quartz from the YDB cosmic impact layer at Abu Hureyra, Syria, showing evidence of burst bubbles and flow textures that resulted from the melting and boiling of rock at very high temperatures. (Light microscope image at left; SEM image at right.) Credit: UCSB

Morphological and geochemical evidence of the melt-glass confirms that the material is not cosmic, volcanic, or of human-made origin. “The very high temperature melt-glass appears identical to that produced in known cosmic impact events such as Meteor Crater in Arizona, and the Australasian tektite field,” said Kennett.

“The melt material also matches melt-glass produced by the Trinity nuclear airburst of 1945 in Socorro, New Mexico,” he continued. “The extreme temperatures required are equal to those of an atomic bomb blast, high enough to make sand melt and boil.”

The material evidence supporting the YDB cosmic impact hypothesis spans three continents, and covers nearly one-third of the planet, from California to Western Europe, and into the Middle East. The discovery extends the range of evidence into Germany and Syria, the easternmost site yet identified in the northern hemisphere. The researchers have yet to identify a limit to the debris field of the impact.

Photos of Melt Glass Known as Trinitite

These are photos of melt glass known as trinitite formed at the ground surface from the melting of sediments and rocks by the very high temperatures of the Trinity nuclear airburst in New Mexico in 1945. This material is very similar to the glassy melt materials now reported from the cosmic impact YDB layer, consistent with the very high temperature origin of the melt materials in the YDB layer. Credit: UCSB

“Because these three sites in North America and the Middle East are separated by 1,000 to 10,000 kilometers, there were most likely three or more major impact/airburst epicenters for the YDB impact event, likely caused by a swarm of cosmic objects that were fragments of either a meteorite or comet,” said Kennett.

The PNAS paper also presents examples of recent independent research that supports the YDB cosmic impact hypothesis, and supports two independent groups that found melt-glass in the YDB layers in Arizona and Venezuela. “The results strongly refute the assertion of some critics that ‘no one can replicate’ the YDB evidence, or that the materials simply fell from space non-catastrophically,” Kennett noted.

He added that the archaeological site in Syria where the melt-glass material was found –– Abu Hureyra, in the Euphrates Valley –– is one of the few sites of its kind that record the transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to farmer-hunters who live in permanent villages. “Archeologists and anthropologists consider this area the ‘birthplace of agriculture,’ which occurred close to 12,900 years ago,” Kennett said.

“The presence of a thick charcoal layer in the ancient village in Syria indicates a major fire associated with the melt-glass and impact spherules 12,900 years ago,” he continued. “Evidence suggests that the effects on that settlement and its inhabitants would have been severe.”

###

Other scientists contributing to the research include Ted Bunch and James H. Wittke of Northern Arizona University; Robert E. Hermes of Los Alamos National Laboratory; Andrew Moore of the Rochester Institute of Technology; James C. Weaver of Harvard University; Douglas J. Kennett of Pennsylvania State University; Paul S. DeCarli of SRI International; James L. Bischoff of the U.S. Geological Survey; Gordon C. Hillman of the University College London; George A. Howard of Restoration Systems; David R. Kimbel of Kimstar Research; Gunther Kletetschka of Charles University in Prague, and of the Czech Academy of Science; Carl Lipo and Sachiko Sakai of California State University, Long Beach; Zsolt Revay of the Technical University of Munich in Germany; Allen West of GeoScience Consulting; and Richard B. Firestone of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

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Nerd

[SNIP: Sorry, Nerd, but this goes to places Anthony just doesn’t want to go. -REP]

Leaving aside the local problems these impacts cause,presumably the impact sent a dust cloud into the atmosphere and led to a world wide cooling. I always thought mammoths became extinct because the Ice Age ended and they could not cope with higher temperatures!
Since this has only just been discovered it could not have been as calamitous for the planet as the evnt 65,000,000 years ago that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Vince Causey

Which means that the Younger Dryas was not part of a “natural rythm”, that the natural rythm induced ice age ended 20,000 years ago and not 12,000 years ago. Implications: we are now due for the next ice age.

JohnG

“He added that the archaeological site in Syria where the melt-glass material was found –– Abu Hureyra, in the Euphrates Valley –– is one of the few sites of its kind that record the transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to farmer-hunters who live in permanent villages. “Archeologists and anthropologists consider this area the ‘birthplace of agriculture,’ which occurred close to 12,900 years ago,” Kennett said.
“The presence of a thick charcoal layer in the ancient village in Syria indicates a major fire associated with the melt-glass and impact spherules 12,900 years ago,” he continued. “Evidence suggests that the effects on that settlement and its inhabitants would have been severe.”
I just knew Von Däniken gods nuked Sodom and Gommarra. :-))

Some four decades ago, I purchased a cassette tape album at a science fiction convention titled Minus Ten and Counting: Songs of the Space Age, on which was featured a tune written by singer Leslie Fish.
Seems appropriate to quote the lyrics here right now:

Legends have warned us in times gone by,
Dangers can fall on us from the sky,
Fire and rain, and hail, stone and flame,
And gods without mercy and plagues without name.
Science has taught us of what might be,
Dangers that drift through infinity,
Comets may call, or meteors fall,
And nobody knows what lives out there at all.
Humans are hotheads who break the rules,
Humans are reckless, but not quite fools,
Therefore we fly, keeping an eye,
Turned to the depths of the borderless sky.
Some of us people, the rest machines –
Sensors, computers, and readout screens –
Always aware, with infinite care,
That we’re the first warning if anything’s there.
We are the sentries who guard your sleep,
Endless as hours in the watch we keep,
Holding the sky under an eye,
As watchful as ever in ages gone by.

For nothing is certain but death and change,
Earthborne or skyborne as we may range.
Always we fly, watching the sky,
And nobody Human need ever ask why!

Emphasis included in the performance.

Very interesting. I agree with Vince, above, in that the natural climate cycle was interrupted. It is certainly cold here in the UK and June already. The UK Met. Office blame the jet stream.

LearDog

Interesting – but I’m confused. The article says “Morphological and geochemical evidence of the melt-glass confirms that the material is NOT cosmic, volcanic, or of human-made origin.”. But then they go on to state that the widely distributed material was “likely caused by a swarm of cosmic objects that were fragments of either a meteorite or comet”.
Aren’t those things “cosmic”?

LearDog says:
June 13, 2012 at 4:46 am
Interesting – but I’m confused. The article says “Morphological and geochemical evidence of the melt-glass confirms that the material is NOT cosmic, volcanic, or of human-made origin.”. But then they go on to state that the widely distributed material was “likely caused by a swarm of cosmic objects that were fragments of either a meteorite or comet”.
Aren’t those things “cosmic”?

The objects that hit were cosmic, but the melt-glass is terrestrial. The airbursts (since we haven’t found any craters) essentially melted the ground beneath them and the shock waves carried the molten material outward from “ground zero”…

beng

What’s interesting is that a major cooling from an impact causes a semi-permanent shift to an ice-age-like climate. The impact effects themselves couldn’t have lasted more than a couple decades, yet the climate-change lasted 1000 yrs. This prb’ly happened by similar mechanisms to the “regular” transitions to glacial conditions from interglacials, just faster.

Stephen Richards

andrewmharding says:
June 13, 2012 at 4:04 am
Leaving aside the local problems these impacts cause, presumably the impact sent a dust cloud into the atmosphere and led to a world wide cooling. I always thought mammoths became extinct because the Ice Age ended and they could not cope with higher temperatures!
Since this has only just been discovered it could not have been as calamitous for the planet as the evnt 65,000,000 years ago that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs.
Andrew, I think, as usual, that the evidence is still a little sparse but it remains a serious possibility. The reasoning goes like this :
The mamoths that have been found frozen have been found with food still preserved in their stomachs. For that to happen the animal would have to have been frozen extremely rapidly. Bearing in mind the size of the animal, the russians have calculated a temp of -120°C would have been needed almost instantaneously because the food would have fermented rapidly while the body cooled slowly.
Also, the mamoths would have needed a large supply of food to live where they were frozen. This indicates that the climate was as warm as, or warmer than today. The comet hypothosis for a rapid freeze of this nature seems reasonable but so does a large volcanic eruption if we bear in mind that the YD episode was short lived and very sudden. The previous hypothosis of a glacial block in the US also stands up to a little scrutiny.

J Crew

Has anyone else noticed an increase in the last few decades of catastrophism for explaining several significant geologic and historic events, a departure from continued application of uniformitarianism? This appears to be what more recent field evidences are suggesting.

Nyeshet

to respond to beng –
I wonder whether the impacts were so severe as to cause ice age conditions – or of the impacts merely lowered the temperature to just beneath whatever the threshold is to cause the shift to an ice age. Note also that the original 12.9k impact theory suggested that one occurred just over the massive ice shelf covering the Hudson bay, that this caused a massive flush of melt water into the Atlantic ocean, affecting the ocean circulation as well as throwing up a dust cloud for a year or more.
What is most interesting to me about this article is that it gives evidence that the impact was in fact multiple impacts. So just how many were involved? So far there is evidence for at least three (North America, Germany, and Syria), but there may possibly have been a dozen or more of various severity.
It has been interesting seeing how this theory has changed as more information became known. Initially they were proposing a supernova as being responsible – however directly or indirectly – for causing the comet impact (1), and back then then [2005] they still believed it was just one impact – possibly directly upon the last major ice sheet over the Hudson Bay. Now they are suggesting multiple air bursts, and I do not recall seeing even one mention of a supernova in the article. On the other hand, there was at least one other article, from 2007, that suggested a more active sun instead of a supernova accounted for some of their suggested evidence of a supernova (2), although as I’ve only been able to find mention of that article at one site on the net, I am not sure as to how accurate or not it may itself be.
(1) http://phys.org/news6734.html
(2) http://starburstfound.org/mammoth-extinction-due-supernova-explained-giant-solar-flares/

Interesting and much more supportive of a bolide than the previous misinterpretation of mold spores as carbon spherules. But, still no real PGE anomaly… or any other physical differentiation of the Younger Dryas from the other late Pleistocene glacial stadials related to the Dansgaard-Oesschger cycle.
If these scoria can’t be explained with terrestrial causes, they might be evidence of some type of bolide.

jayhd

What, no models? Must have been one big explosion to eliminate so much CO2 that it caused an ice age! Seriously though, I’m happy to see some real digging and speculating on what is found. The whole thing appears quite plausible to me and I’ll be happy to read more (but I must add, I’m just an accountant, not a scientist). But the minute “global warming” is mentioned, I’ll turn on the authors in a heartbeat.

MarkW

Leardog, the point of the article is that heat from cosmic impacts melted terrestrial material.
The source of the material is terra firma. The source of the heat was cosmic.
The signatures for volcanic or human heating are also different from what is seen in these samples.

DirkH

Nerd says:
June 13, 2012 at 4:00 am
[SNIP: Sorry, Nerd, but this goes to places Anthony just doesn’t want to go. -REP]
I agree with Nerd.
An asteroid that hits Syria and Pennsylvania at the same time? Hello?

jlurtz

Could it be that the “cosmic” items some how “parted the atmosphere” and opened the surface of the Earth directly to the vacuum of space. This is the only way the temperature could fall ~200F instantaneously [Sun pointing away or cooking (bbq mammoth) would have occurred]. A volcano or Earth shift could not do this!
Finally, an explanation for how the Mammoths froze. Climate “science” is settled except for those pesky cosmic events….

M Wilson

So as I understand it there were cosmic bodies impacting Earth resulting in melt-glass forming at temperatures of 1,700 to 2,200C. The hottest lavas are only 1,200C. No wonder there was a thick layer of charcoal – it must have set vast areas on fire. Does anyone know if melt-glass was formed as a result of the Tunguska event?
That it is found in California, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Arizona, Syria, Germany and Venezuela suggests a widespead event and a large number of impacts. There must be some evidence of the original source.

Tom Bakewell

@ J Crew
Your obervation is correct. “Punctuated equilibrium” is the phrase coined by Stephen Jay Gould to describe this viewpoint. I believe it also is useful in describing climate history.

Most of the blast-effected materials they’ve found so far are the kind of tektites, and  particulates one might expect to see as distal ejecta falling out of atmospheric suspension as dust. The extreme temps required for the formation of the kind impact glass they’ve found exceed what can happen in volcanic processes; as well as any anthropogenic cause. Only an impact event can produce those temps.
If the thickness of the impact layer is a function of the proximity to the epicenter of one of the cluster airburst impact zones, keep in mind that the impact layer found in Lake Cuitzeo, in Central Mexico is a full 10 cm thick. It should also be noted that the stuff in Lake Cuitzeo is consistent with what you’d expect to see if a hypervelocity object large passed directly overhead, and was already well down into the atmosphere.
So one of the primary impact zones must be in Mexico, and within a couple of hundred miles of Lake Cuitzeo. The problem for researchers there is the amount of volcanic activity, and materials at that distance from the lake. And since no uniformitarian geologist of the past could’ve imagined such violence coming from the sky, there is a very good chance that most, if not all, of the melt formations, and planetary scarring of the Mexican impact zone are misdefined on geologic maps as volcanogenic.

Curt

DirkH says:
June 13, 2012 at 6:57 am
An asteroid that hits Syria and Pennsylvania at the same time? Hello?
***************************
Remember the series of impacts of comets into Jupiter about a decade ago? They were widely spaced around a much bigger planet.

@DirkH Not a discreet “asteroid,” Dirk, but a swarm of bodies from a disintegrating comet. The fact that many big bodies are well known to slowly disintegrate into a wide pack(s) of smaller bodies, which can return each year, is widely ignored in the impact community. There is one coming around later this year: http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0605a/ And Bill Napier has given us model to produce impacts of this kind for a sustained period(s) across much of the earth. Anyone reading this one paper for the first time, will increase their understanding of earth and human history many times overs: http://www.scribd.com/george1202/d/27825834-Napier-Astro-Model-Ras

DirkH,
FYA the researchers at the Younger Dryas Boundary layer quit thinking about single bolide, solid body, impacts a long time ago. The evidence is pointing to airbursts of large clusters of smaller fragments such as Linear 1, or Schwassmann Wachmann 3. And as W.M. Napier pointed out in ‘Paleolithic extinctions and the Taurid complex’ the breakup of comets is now a well recognized path to their destruction.
We saw SL-9 breakup into a “string of pearls” before returning to impact Jupiter. And most folks tend to refer to SL-9 as a model for a typical breakup mechanism. But in fact, to breakup a comet and stretch it out into a long string of fragments that way requires the concentrated tidal forces of a close passage to a very powerful gravity well; an unlikely scenario in the inner solar system.
The mechanism that caused the breakup of Comets Linear, and SW-3, was something different. Each produced large clusters of smaller fragments, not a string. And the mechanism that did so did not require the gravitational influence of any planet. It appears that the ices holding them together sublimated in the warmth of the sun, and they simply ‘came unglued’ like the wings of Icarus.
The impact evidence that’s been accumulating from the YD boundary layer is pointing to the Earth having collided with the debris from multiple large clusters of smaller fragments, such as those two objects; soon after the complete breakup of a good sized comet. And a very compelling case can be made that the parent body was the progenitor of the Taurid complex.

gopal panicker

this explains how mammoths were quick frozen in spite of their hairy coats…an animal of that size requires a lot of food..therefore the climate there must have been much warmer with lush vegetation

[eternally grateful to attend Anthony’s world wide science class]
Add in some more anamolies….Mammoths were dining on temperate dandilions at the same latitude as the presumed, three mile thick Canadian ice sheet. One speculated scenario is that a possible impact occured over this ice sheet, hiding the impact crater. There is also a NA layer of nano-diamonds in this sediment layer. NASA recorded a meteor break up with multiple impacts on Jupiter, so this is a proven phenomena. The mammoths showed bone fractures consistent with direct vertical impact loads and the undigested food matter suggests near instant flash freezing. A massive, largely CO2 meteorite would be solid ‘dry ice’ in the 2.7K outer space, burst in the atmosphere and could have rained chunks of still frozen dry ice on our departed wooly mammal friends. Our web classroom has allowed us to find and share Truth beyond our greatest dreams. If left unmolested, humanity will ‘web’ our way out of all of our ignorant nightmares.

Elmer

Trinity nuclear airburst of 1945 WAS NOT in Socorro.

Steve

I’m probably wrong that the might be from this event, but if you use Google Earth and look over the multitudinous glacial lakes in southern Minnesota and northern Iowa, you will see quite a few that are round, with central peaks. (and one very large feature on the Wisconsin side of the Minnesota border that looks very much like an eroded, filled, and re-eroded crater)

P. Solar

After a hiatus of about 2000 years the deglaciation then continued causing widespread flooding, and commencing the period known as the Younger Wetass period.

blueice2hotsea

The impact would have dramatically affected human survivors.
Curiously, the oldest known human-made religious structure, Göbekli Tepe, was built around 12,000 years ago, about 20 miles from the Syrian border.

mitchel44

Could this event itself be the cause of the “melt-water pulse”? http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7042/abs/nature03617.html

TonyG

Did it hit on Tuesday? (with apologies to Niven & Pournelle)

John F. Hultquist

Vince Causey says:
June 13, 2012 at 4:09 am
“. . . . . Implications: we are now due for the next ice age.

Give or take a few years:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2012/03/next-peak-of-ice-age-year-60000-ad.html

mitchel44,
If one of the primary impact zones was the Laurentide Ice Sheet in the Great Lakes region as some suspect, then a natural consequence of the sudden melting of so much ice would be just such a meltwater pulse into the North Atlantic, and Arctic Ocean. And if a large percentage of the ice was flashed to steam, I wonder how long it would take it to presipitate back out of the atmosphere as rain. But I’m thinkin’ 40 days, and 40 nights, of torrential rains sounds sounds about right.

Steve Keohane

Faux Science Slayer says:June 13, 2012 at 9:03 am
I like your idea of a chunk of dry ice causing the instantaneous freezing. Actually any frozen gas would do that. It seems like a good solution to the extreme temperature change.

John F. Hultquist

J Crew says:
June 13, 2012 at 6:14 am
“Has anyone else noticed . . .

The history of “catastrophism” and “uniformitarianism” in science cannot be separated from religion. Very briefly, creation by a god implies one should see results that could be called catastrophic. Ancient Earth or “deep time” provides an alternative of slow and steady developments, such as sedimentation. With the religious overtones removed it became acceptable to consider significant rapid events – catastrophes.
Consider this as an example:
“Geologist J Harlen Bretz first recognized evidence of the catastrophic floods, which he called the Spokane Floods, in the 1920s.
. . .
Bretz’s view, which was seen as arguing for a catastrophic explanation of the geology, ran against the prevailing view of uniformitarianism, and Bretz’s views were initially held in disregard.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods

@Tucci78 at 4:23 am
Many thanks for the “Minus Ten and Counting” link.
The song title to the lyrics you posted is “Sentries”

Tucci78

At 11:34 AM on 13 June. Stephen Rasey had written:

Many thanks for the “Minus Ten and Counting” link.
The song title to the lyrics you posted is “Sentries”

Yep. I simply forgot to list the name of the filksong itself. Thanks for filling in my unnoticed blank.

Tim Mantyla

John Marshall says:
Very interesting. I agree with Vince, above, in that the natural climate cycle was interrupted. It is certainly cold here in the UK and June already. The UK Met. Office blame the jet stream.

John, as scientists involved in climate change research keep pointing out to lay persons (and global warming doubters), climate is not weather. Coldness in a particular area does not indicate a change as great as global cooling, nor does warmer weather over the world or particular areas indicate global warming. Change over very long periods, such as centuries, not decades, indicate long-term trends:
“Empirical measurements of the Earth’s heat content show the planet is still accumulating heat and global warming is still happening. Surface temperatures can show short-term cooling when heat is exchanged between the atmosphere and the ocean, which has a much greater heat capacity than the air.” http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling.htm
——–
Vince Causey said:
“Which means that the Younger Dryas was not part of a “natural rythm”, that the natural rythm induced ice age ended 20,000 years ago and not 12,000 years ago. Implications: we are now due for the next ice age.”
Thank you John F. Hultquist, for finding the science on ice age trends:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2012/03/next-peak-of-ice-age-year-60000-ad.html
Mr. Causey’s statement is an example of the kind of thinking – supposition of causation from scant and/or irrelevant evidence – that helps spread myths about climate change, because it is not science-based. Those who don’t trust or understand how science works, however, may take up such notions and spread them, because they fit into their “commonsense” notions of global warming/climate change. Notions like this are common among global warming doubters, and spread in the conservative “echo chamber” (of which the WUWT blog is one example) rapidly …which is partly why it is so named.
Is there a need for perhaps considered “common sense” in climate science? Many posts here and elsewhere, as well as opinions frequently found in various media outlets, test climate science against the author’s “common sense” – and find the climate science wanting. This tantamount to Ludditeism: destroying the machinery of modern science.
There is an all-knowing Grand Climate Priest – Joe (??) the meteorologist and clearly uber-qualified climate science commentator, who appears periodically on Fox News ;-)). (Sorry, the man’s name escapes me – I don’t watch Fox.) He has used “common sense” and his meteorological knowledge to refute the best science accumulated by years of research by 98% of climate scientists.
There may be some “common sense” that applies to climate science – but it only applies in the context of the evidence and the science. However, in general, climate science is so complex that it requires years of study to obtain a degree in a related field, and years of research to determine trends and causation, correlated with the vast body of existing research. Moreover, the science would not be possible without advanced computers. There is little “common sense” involved in programming such computers, as they require advance technical and scientific knowledge far beyond “common sense.”
It’s true that no science is “settled,” since any evidence truly refuting a scientific axiom, theory, finding or other concept is always possible. However, none yet has refuted the vast and accelerating body of knowledge, agreed on in the main by 98% of climate scientists, that demonstrates this fact: Human activities have caused most of the global warming in the last 150 or so years.
I wish WUWT would become a science-based website that refutes myths promoted by the anti-science global doubting community. Haven’t seen much progress yet. Still seeing cherry-picked science and pseudo-science and discredited science quoted as comprehensive, real, peer-reviewed science. Looking forward to seeing that disappear someday.
“The truth is out there.” And scientists are finding it. Not using opinion, common sense, myth-spreading, poor logic or shouting. They use science. Live with it. Scientists are trying to help you live better lives – so please stop obstructing it.

George E. Smith;

So who the blazes were Younger and Dryas, or what happened to the Older Dryas, or where on earth is Younger Dryas, or where was Younger Dryas published, or what did Younger and Dryas think about Lewis and Clark, and were Younger and Dryas present at Rorke’s Drift ?
Enquiring minds want to know about the Dryas Sisters.

Kay

Curt says:
June 13, 2012 at 7:56 am
DirkH says:
June 13, 2012 at 6:57 am
An asteroid that hits Syria and Pennsylvania at the same time? Hello?
***************************
Remember the series of impacts of comets into Jupiter about a decade ago? They were widely spaced around a much bigger planet.
********************************************************************************************************************
I’m by no means religious, but the Book of Enoch talks about seven blazing stars which fell to Earth, and myths from all over the world refer to bright new stars which fell as seven flaming mountains, of how the oceans rose up in vast waves and totally engulfed the land, and how summer was driven away with a cold darkness that lasted several years. The Aborigines even had a name for them: the Water Girls. In the Atlantis story by Plato, Solon mentions that Atlantis sunk 9,000 years before.
I’m not saying the Atlantis myth is true, but myths do have a grain of truth to them. And they’re all so similar the world over. Maybe this is what they’re remembering? And event like that would definitely be remembered.

Stephen.
Thanks for the comments; this is what I like about WUWT, I learn a lot of things that I did not know. I did not know about the incredibly low temperatures need to freeze a mammoth, but it does make sense.. Likewise, I always thought that mammoths were “woolly” to protect them from the cold, Thanks again!

The Book of Enoch equated stars with angels and planets with archangels.
How do you get agriculture from a catastrophe?
Mammoths survived on Wrangel island till 4kya, at 71N latitude. That was probably when humans arrived.
Instantly frozen mammoth carcasses is a creationist myth.
Frozen decayed carcasses have been dated to various ages. I’m not aware of any dating to 12900BP. –AGF

Stephen Skinner

How often do such impacts occur? Although, past patterns do not mean future patterns will be the same (consider the weather). However, as large impacts have happened before they can happen again. We should be looking for the next one.

Vince Causey

Tim Mantyla says:
June 13, 2012 at 12:10 pm
“John, as scientists involved in climate change research keep pointing out to lay persons (and global warming doubters), climate is not weather. ”
“Mr. Causey’s statement is an example of the kind of thinking – supposition of causation from scant and/or irrelevant evidence – that helps spread myths about climate change, because it is not science-based.”
You take light-hearted banter that 98% of posters here recognise as exactly that, and make sweeping generalisations about those such as myself who are “helping to spread myths about climate change.”
You then write: “I wish WUWT would become a science-based website that refutes myths promoted by the anti-science global doubting community. Haven’t seen much progress yet.”
Folks here at WUWT are by and large, a fairly amicable bunch, and a lot goes on in the way of general chit-chat and good natured humour on the subject of the thread. Of course, there are those who come in here and criticize this and that, make demands on what people should or shouldn’t say, and go out of their way to look for reasons to belittle others.
So, my friend, since you seek to impugn my name, please enlighten us here, and tell the good folks at WUWT what “climate change myths” – apart from my joke about the new ice age – I am guilty of spreading. i don’t what to hear any more of the substance-free arm waving you’ve already made, but actual quotes of what I have said and why they are myths.
Thank you.
VC

Pat Moffitt

I read Napier paper on the Taurid Complex recommended by swamp merchant. What I found most refreshing was the author clearly limiting the claim being made:
“The object of this paper is not to claim that such an encounter took place at 12,900 BP – that is a matter for Earthscientists – but to show that a convincing astronomical scenario can be constructed which seems to give a satisfactory match to the major geophysical features of the YoungerDryas Boundary data.”
Its a good read.

Mark

Nyeshet says:
What is most interesting to me about this article is that it gives evidence that the impact was in fact multiple impacts. So just how many were involved? So far there is evidence for at least three (North America, Germany, and Syria), but there may possibly have been a dozen or more of various severity.
Probably not a bad idea to look for any tsunami evidence in the Atlantic.
Shoemaker–Levy 9 had 21 major fragments. So it’s perfectly possible to get multiple planetary impacts from a single comet.

Very Interesting, so the recent ice age rhythm is continued and the lone anomaly is explained?
So there is no reason to not expect the ice age is in fact coming soon. In geologic time of course.
Be interest in what the computer models say about that.

Caleb

Here’s a link if you are interested in an “alternative” view of what happened to the mammoths:
http://www.grahamkendall.net/Unsorted_files-2/A312-Frozen_Mammoths.txt
Be careful using this as an authority. I have been severely scolded for simply wondering about some of the things this paper brings up.
One thing I’ve wondered is if the same comet of dry ice (or other frozen gas) could both cause extreme heat and extreme cold. The heat would be caused by friction as it entered the atmosphere, and by clobbering the earth. However could a pulverized mass of post-impact dry ice produce a dust-storm of super-cold powder, capable of flash freezing?
Another thing this paper mentions is wet muck and dry laoss across the north that contains particles which are not worn and smoothes, as they would be by wind, but rather have a microscopic jaggedness indicative of quick creation and deposition. Also they are not stratified, as they would be if laid down over time, but represent large amounts of stuff all laid down at once. Any geologist care to comment?
Lastly, the paper notes large deposits of bones from big animals, located in high places, with the bones showing stress fractures from above, as if the beasts had struggled upwards against the forses of some unimaginable flood of raining crud, muck and so forth. Small animal bones are not noted, so apparently the little critters didn’t even make it up the hills?
Interesting stuff, but is it science, or science fiction?

swampmerchant

Thanks, @Pat! Folks, forget about the frozen mammoths, and put aside the myths for now. Just read the Napier paper, and the Cosmic Tusk: http://www.cosmictusk.com

Roberto

@Tim Mantyla 12:10 PM
Why doesn’t WUWT quit obstructing proper science?
I can’t answer for everybody here, but I can certainly tell you that climate science modelling appears to violate norms of computer science practice in most fields. Models can be constructed any way you like, the best you know how, but they are not done yet. Then they have to pass tests, lots of tests. If they are still in development, they have to pass the tests over and over. The tests and their results have to be graded and kept. I can’t really imagine a modeller or IT professional from any field that could skip testing and still expect anybody to believe him. Clever people are all too prone to skip that discipline, and their work often suffers for it. So what we keep asking here is “Where are the tests?” How do you know that these models are correct, not just clever or well-informed? Otherwise they are not much more than sophisticated pictures somebody drew, using a computer. Sorry, but that’s my professional opinion, from a whole lot more years and experience than most of these guys have spent.