Guest post by Floyd Doughty
Some years ago when I was investigating the climate change issue in my spare time, I ran across a short article by James Hansen on the GISS website under “Education Resource Materials”, dated January, 1999. James Hansen is arguably the father of modern Anthropogenic Global Warming dogma. So I saved the web page for future reference because of some of the predictions contained within it, as well as the incredibly balanced and well-reasoned attitude expressed regarding the philosophy of scientific investigation. We could all benefit from Dr. Hansen’s wisdom. For example,
“Skepticism thus plays an essential role in scientific research, and, far from trying to silence skeptics, science invites their contributions. So too, the global warming debate benefits from traditional scientific skepticism”.
And another gem:
“Although scientists have a right to express personal opinions related to policy issues, it seems to me that we can be of more use by focusing on the science and carrying that out with rigorous objectivity. That approach seems to be essential for the success, as well as the “fun”, of scientific research”.
Given what has transpired in the intervening 13 years, it is not surprising that I can no longer find the article on the GISS site (but I may not have dug deeply enough). Therefore, I am making my copy of the article available to you for your reading pleasure. There is such a wealth of fascinating statements contained in this short document, it is impossible to decide where to begin. I suspect others will find numerous points to comment on. By the way, the embedded link to Dr. Hansen’s book review is still working, and I found that to be an interesting read as well.
I found Dr. Hansen’s chart of projected global temperature anomalies intriguing, particularly in light of the observational record of the last decade:
This chart, as displayed in the January, 1999 document, is a replica of the global temperature projections, considering three scenarios that Dr. Hansen presented during his celebrated 1988 United States Senate testimony, but updated with the actual observed GISS temperature record as of 1998.
Scenario A represented projected global temperatures assuming “a fast growth rate for greenhouse gases”. Scenarios B and C “have a moderate growth rate for greenhouse gases until year 2000, after which greenhouse gases stop increasing in Scenario C”. I thought it might be enlightening, or at least entertaining, to compare the current GISS global temperature record with what was presented in January, 1999. The “… traditional analysis … global annual-mean surface air temperature change …” data series was downloaded from
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/ (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.A.txt)
This time series was plotted in Microsoft Excel. Unfortunately, time series data values that were used to produce the original chart did not seem to be available. Therefore, the Excel chart of the current GISS global temperature record was rather crudely scaled and overlain onto an image of the original chart, with the following result:
The data shown in red are from the original image published in 1999. The blue points are what are currently available for download at the GISS website. The slight apparent time shift in the vertical grid lines was necessary because, for some reason, Dr. Hansen originally plotted yearly averages between tick marks rather than centered on tick marks. The vertical scales have not been altered, and are as exact as I can make them with the manual overlay. The blue observational data points seem to roughly lie between Dr. Hansen’s Scenario B (moderate, continued growth rate in greenhouse gases) and Scenario C (moderate growth rate in greenhouse gases until year 2000, after which greenhouse gases stop increasing). Interestingly, the data currently available for download (blue) seem to be indicating a slightly warmer trend than what was presented in 1999 (red). After manually applying a slight downward bulk shift (or “bias”) to the overlay of the current record (blue), the two time series seem to be in slightly better agreement:
It seems the historical GISS temperature record has been somewhat altered, or “adjusted” since January of 1999, such that historical global temperature anomaly values are now slightly more positive than what was published at that time. Perhaps a base line change was applied to the data since the 1999 article. But data after 1988 appear to be “adjusted” to a greater extent than data prior to 1988. Well, it is what it is, and the best we can do is to calibrate the current GISS temperature time series to the years prior to 1988, under the charitable assumption that perhaps the points that were added to the original 1988 chart in the 1999 article were accidentally mis-posted.
Now that the current version of historical temperature measurements are approximately calibrated to the historic record as presented by Dr. Hansen to the United States Senate in 1988, it seems that the GISS record in the years following 1988 have roughly approximated Dr. Hansen’s Scenario C. But wait – that scenario was a projection of temperature variations assuming greenhouse gases stop increasing after the year 2000. Did I miss something? Was the IPCC wildly successful after all?
It is also illustrative to compare Dr. Hansen’s 1988 prediction with the satellite record. UAH NCDC temperature data from analyses by Roy Spencer and John Christy was downloaded from Dr. Spencer’s website:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures (http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt)
Since these data are monthly averages of global temperature derived from satellite measurements, the global temperature data series was further averaged over each calendar year to enable direct comparison with the raw, currently available GISS data. The UAH NCDC chart was then manually scaled and bulk shifted in order to calibrate with the original 1999 GISS data (since the base periods for the two data sets are different). The result of this crude scaling exercise is shown with the UAH NCDC data in green, compared with the current, unbiased GISS data in blue:
After applying the manual bulk shift to compensate for the different base line periods, it appears that the satellite data agree reasonably well with the current, unbiased GISS surface station data – except for the trend, as others have pointed out. GISS estimates since 1998 seem to be consistently higher than the UAH NCDC satellite estimates. More accurately stated (since the calibration was visual only), the GISS trend appears more positive than the UAH NCDC satellite data trend. Interesting. Now it looks like Dr. Hansen’s Scenario C global temperature forecast that he presented to the United States Senate in 1988 was amazingly accurate, according to the satellite-derived global temperature record. That is truly a remarkable achievement. So now let’s employ a bit of faulty logic that is similar to that which is routinely applied by AGW proponents: “The observational data fit the model, so the model must be accurate”. Anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions must have ceased in the year 2000. And I missed it. Rats.
In the interest of full disclosure, I must unambiguously state that I am a state board-certified Professional Geophysicist nearing retirement after more than 38 years spent in the search for new oil and gas reserves. As such, AGW proponents may simply dismiss my comments as the ravings of an “oil company shill”. There is no statement that I can swear to that would convince them otherwise. So be it. The truth is that the observations, opinions, and views I have expressed are the result of independent critical thought, are strictly my own, and do not in any way represent those of my employer, the oil industry in general, or any other entities.
Floyd Doughty
May 10, 2012
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Source – the Wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20010223232940/http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/
The Global Warming Debate
By James Hansen — January 1999
The only way to have real success in science … is to describe the evidence very carefully without regard to the way you feel it should be. If you have a theory, you must try to explain what’s good about it and what’s bad about it equally. In science you learn a kind of standard integrity and honesty. — Richard Feynman
In my view, we are not doing as well as we could in the global warming debate. For one thing, we have failed to use the opportunity to help teach the public about how science research works. On the contrary, we often appear to the public to be advocates of fixed adversarial positions. Of course, we can try to blame this on the media and politicians, with their proclivities to focus on antagonistic extremes. But that doesn’t really help.
The fun in science is to explore a topic from all angles and figure out how something works. To do this well, a scientist learns to be open-minded, ignoring prejudices that might be imposed by religious, political or other tendencies (Galileo being a model of excellence). Indeed, science thrives on repeated challenge of any interpretation, and there is even special pleasure in trying to find something wrong with well-accepted theory. Such challenges eventually strengthen our understanding of the subject, but it is a never-ending process as answers raise more questions to be pursued in order to further refine our knowledge.
Skepticism thus plays an essential role in scientific research, and, far from trying to silence skeptics, science invites their contributions. So too, the global warming debate benefits from traditional scientific skepticism.
I have argued in a recent book review that some “greenhouse skeptics” subvert the scientific process, ceasing to act as objective scientists, rather presenting only one side, as if they were lawyers hired to defend a particular viewpoint. But some of the topics focused on by the skeptics are recognized as legitimate research questions, and also it is fair to say that the injection of environmental, political and religious perspectives in midstream of the science research has occurred from both sides in the global warming debate.
So, what to do? Most scientists are willing to spend part of their time communicating with the public about how science works. And they should be: after all, the financial support for most research is provided ultimately by the public. But one quickly learns that such communication is not easy, at least not for many of us.
In late 1998, I was asked to debate the well-known greenhouse skeptic Dr. Patrick Michaels of the University of Virginia. I summarize here some key points in the debate, “A Public Debate on the Science of Global Warming”, held at the New York Hilton, Nov. 20, 1998, and organized by the American Association for the Rhetoric of Science and Technology. A copy of my entire contribution may be downloaded as a PDF document (Note: This document is 597 kB and requires a special viewer such as the free Adobe Reader.).
I agreed to participate in this debate with Dr. Michaels after learning that he had used (or misused) a figure of mine in testimony to the United States Congress. The figure showed the first predictions made with a 3-D climate model and time-dependent climate forcings — it was a figure from a paper that we had published in the Journal of Geophysical Research in 1988 and it had been a principal basis for testimony that I gave to the United States Senate in 1988.
The figure that we published is reproduced here as Fig. 1.
Fig. 1: Climate model calculations reported in Hansen et al. (1988).
It shows the simulated global mean temperature for three climate forcing scenarios. Scenario A has a fast growth rate for greenhouse gases. Scenarios B and C have a moderate growth rate for greenhouse gases until year 2000, after which greenhouse gases stop increasing in Scenario C. Scenarios B and C also included occasional large volcanic eruptions, while scenario A did not. The objective was to illustrate the broad range of possibilities in the ignorance of how forcings would actually develop. The extreme scenarios (A with fast growth and no volcanos, and C with terminated growth of greenhouse gases) were meant to bracket plausible rates of change. All of the maps of simulated climate change that I showed in my 1988 testimony were for the intermediate scenario B, because it seemed the most likely of the three scenarios.
But when Pat Michaels testified to congress in 1998 and showed our 1988 predictions (Fig. 1) he erased the curves for scenarios B and C, and showed the result only for scenario A. He then argued that, since the real world temperature had not increased as fast as this model calculation, the climate model was faulty and there was no basis for concern about climate change, specifically concluding that the Kyoto Protocol was “a useless appendage to an irrelevant treaty”.
Although scientists have a right to express personal opinions related to policy issues, it seems to me that we can be of more use by focusing on the science and carrying that out with rigorous objectivity. That approach seems to be essential for the success, as well as the “fun”, of scientific research.
Fig. 1 is a good case in point. We now know (Hansen et al. 1998a, 1998b) that the growth rate of greenhouse gases in the period 1988-1998 has been flat, very similar to scenarios B and C (which are nearly the same until year 2000). Thus we can compare real world temperature changes in the past decade (filled circles in Fig. 1) with model calculations for the B-C scenarios. Taking account of the fact that the real world volcano occurred in 1991, rather than 1995 as assumed in the model, it is apparent that the model did a good job of predicting global temperature change. But the period of comparison is too short and the climate change too small compared to natural variability for the comparison to provide a meaningful check on the model’s sensitivity to climate forcings. With data from another decade we will be able to make a much clearer evaluation of the model.
As the opinions in the global warming debate do not seem to be converging, it seems to me that one useful thing that can be done is to clearly delineate the fundamental differences. Then, as our scientific understanding advances over the next several years, we can achieve more convincing evaluations of the global warming issue. (Stated less generously, this is a way to pin down those who keep changing their arguments.)
Table 1 summarizes chief differences that I delineated for the sake of a discussion with Richard Lindzen, who has provided the intellectual underpinnings for the greenhouse skeptics, in October 1998. I also used this list (Table 1) as the principal fodder for my “affirmative closing argument” in the debate with Pat Michaels.
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Table 1. Key Differences with Skeptics
1. Observed global warming: real or measurement problem?
Hansen: global warming is 0.5-0.75°C in past century, at least ~0.3°C in past 25 years.
Lindzen: since about 1850 “…more likely … 0.1±0.3°C” (MIT Tech Talk, 34, #7, 1989).
2. Climate sensitivity (equilibrium response to 2xCO2)
Lindzen: ~< 1°C
Hansen: 3±1°C
Comments: paleoclimate data, improved climate models, and process studies may narrow uncertainties; observed climate change on decadal time scales will provide constraint if climate forcings are measured; implicit information on climate sensitivity can be extracted from observed changes in ocean heat storage.
3. Water vapor feedback
Lindzen: negative, upper tropospheric water vapor decreases with global warming.
Hansen: positive, upper and lower tropospheric water vapor increase with global warming.
References: (these include references by Lindzen stating that, in response to global warming, water vapor will decrease at altitudes above 2-3 km).
Comment: accurate observations of interannual changes (several years) and long-term changes (1-2 decades) of upper tropospheric water vapor could provide defining data.
4. CO2 contribution to the ~33°C natural greenhouse effect
Lindzen: “Even if all other greenhouse gases (such as carbon dioxide and methane) were to disappear, we would still be left with over 98 percent of the current greenhouse effect.” Cato Review, Spring issue, 87-98, 1992; “If all CO2 were removed from the atmosphere, water vapor and clouds would still provide almost all of the present greenhouse effect.” Res. Explor. 9, 191-200, 1993.
Lacis and Hansen: removing CO2, with water vapor kept fixed, would cool the Earth 5-10°C; removing CO2 and trace gases with water vapor allowed to respond would remove most of the natural greenhouse effect.
5. When will global warming and climate change be obvious?
Lindzen: I personally feel that the likelihood over the next century of greenhouse warming reaching magnitudes comparable to natural variability remains small.
Hansen: “With the climatological probability of a hot summer represented by two faces (say painted red) of a six-faced die, judging from our model by the 1990s three or four of the six die faces will be red. It seems to us that this is a sufficient ‘loading’ of the dice that it will be noticeable to the man in the street.” J. Geophys. Res. 93, 9341-9364, 1988.
6. Planetary disequilibrium
Hansen: Earth is out of radiative equilibrium with space by at least approximately 0.5 W/m2 (absorbing more energy than it emits).
Comments: This is the most fundamental measure of the state of the greenhouse effect. Because the disequilibrium is a product of the long response time of the climate system, which in turn is a strong function of climate sensitivity, confirmation of the disequilibrium provides information on climate sensitivity and an indication of how much additional global warming is “in the pipeline” due to gases already added to the atmosphere.
This disequilibrium could be measured as the sum of the rate of heat storage in the ocean plus the net energy going into the melting of ice. Existing technology, including very precise measurements of ocean and ice sheet topography, could provide this information.
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Differences 1 (reality of global warming) and 2 (climate sensitivity) are very fundamental. From my perspective, strong evidence is already accumulating that weighs heavily against the skeptics contentions that there is no significant global warming and that climate sensitivity is low. These issues will become even clearer over the next several years.
Difference 3 (water vapor feedback) is related to climate sensitivity, but is so fundamental that it deserves specific attention. The topic has resisted definitive empirical evaluation, because of the poor state of water vapor measurements and the fact that tropospheric temperature change has been small in the past 20 years. Ozone depletion, which affects upper tropospheric temperatures, has also complicated this problem. This situation will change if, as I would anticipate, ozone depletion flattens and global temperature continues to rise.
Difference 4 has an academic flavor, and is perhaps not worth special efforts. But it illustrates a lack of understanding of the basic greenhouse mechanism by Lindzen.
Difference 5 is fundamental because substantial efforts to curb global warming may require that climate change first be apparent to people. If our assessments are right, we are in fact on the verge of warming being noticeable to the perceptive person-in-the-street. (See related material Global Temperature Trends and the Common Sense Climate Index.)
Difference 6, concerning the planetary “disequilibrium” (imbalance between incoming and outgoing radiation) is the most fundamental measure of the state of the anthropogenic greenhouse effect. The disequilibrium should exist if climate sensitivity is as high (and thus the ocean thermal response time so long) as we estimate, and if increasing greenhouse gases are the dominant climate forcing mechanism. We have presented evidence (Hansen et al. 1997) of a disequilibrium of at least 0.5 W/m2. This imbalance is the basis by which we could predict that record global temperatures would occur within a few years, that the 1990s would be warmer than the 1980s, and that the first decade of next century will be warmer than the 1990s, despite the existence of natural climate variability. I do not know of a reference where Lindzen specifically addresses planetary radiation imbalance, but his positions regarding climate sensitivity and the ocean response time clearly imply a smaller, negligible imbalance.
The important point is that the planetary radiation imbalance is measurable, via the ocean temperature, because the only place this excess energy can go is into the ocean and, probably to a less extent, into the melting of ice. If our estimates are approximately right, this heat storage should not escape detection during the next several years.
In summary, all of these issues are ones that the scientific community potentially can make progress on in the near future, if they receive appropriate attention. The real global warming debate, in the sense of traditional science, can be resolved to a large extent in a reasonable time.
References:
- Hansen, J. 1998. Book review of Sir John Houghton’s Global Warming: The Complete Briefing. J. Atmos. Chem. 30, 409-412.
- Hansen, J., I. Fung, A. Lacis, D. Rind, S. Lebedeff, R. Ruedy, G. Russell, and P. Stone 1988. Global climate changes as forecast by Goddard Institute for Space Studies three-dimensional model. J. Geophys. Res. 93, 9341-9364.
- Hansen, et al. 1997. Forcings and chaos in interannual to decadal climate change. J. Geophys. Res. 102, 25679-25720.
- Hansen, J., M. Sato, J. Glascoe and R. Ruedy 1998a. Common sense climate index: Is climate changing noticeably? Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 95, 4113-4120.
- Hansen, J., M. Sato, A. Lacis, R. Ruedy, I. Tegen, and E. Matthews 1998b. Perspective: Climate forcings in the industrial era. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 22, 12753-12758.
philincalifornia says:
May 10, 2012 at 9:15 pm
“Eric Adler says:
May 10, 2012 at 7:22 pm
Your straw man argument is certainly not the only interpretation that can be made. If you are really going to argue like a scientist, rather than a lawyer, you would not neglect mentioning the possibility that a cooling effect due sulfate aerosols emitted by the rapidly developing Chinese economy , is slowing the increase in temperature.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
….. I thought I read somewhere that it was because the missing heat was sneaking down into the depths of the ocean and hiding.
When thieves fall out !!!!”
Phil,
You are guilty of a false dichotomy here. There is a lot of uncertainty the measurements of both phenomena, and both are capable of introducing errors into the modelling of climate. Better measurements are needed.
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1105/1105.1140.pdf
Of course if you believe that climate scientists are thieves, it is irrelevant to discuss science done by scientists with you.
Clearly Lindzen was closer to reality. Even Nansen should be able to see that by now. We are left questioning whether he is practicing self deception or dishonesty.
Scenario C might better be named ‘We were totally wrong about CO2 and how it effects the climate’.
After all this sets out a case we KNOW did not happen, no more CO2 after 2000. Wherever else the temperatures go, the closer they remain to Scenario C the closer we are to understanding what does NOT drive the climate.
The aerosals are being emitted continously and are increasing as Asia becomes more industrially developed.
—
Completely irrelevant to the issue of whether short lived aerosols have the ability to affect temperatures world wide.
I didn’t know there was a John Edwards manual of public vs. private conduct that many year ago. Or maybe it was the other way around. In the same vein, what has Hansen fathered?
RB says:
May 11, 2012 at 6:32 am
“Eric Adler
You say that we shouldnt discount the possibility that aerosols, clouds, ENSO, volcanoes, and solar decline are all contributing to slowing or counteracting the warming – and I take your post to be just that – a reminder that there might be factors masking or preventing warming and that we should see what we have learned so far and review it – all very sensible and I agree.
We didnt know these things in 1998 but are aware of them now. In 1988 all sorts of dire predictions were made without these factors being included. Obviously we might find out something else tomorrow or the day after that we don’t know today and today’s predictions must be equally likely to be discounting factors that we do not yet understand or which we have not yet uncovered, and so are equally likely not to come to fruition. I have no problem with that and note that you ask that we think like scientists and not like lawyers (or presumably from other non-science perspectives). So when do we know that we know enough to make confident predictions? Caution would appear to be the watchword here.
But in his op-ed in the NYT of 10.5.2012 Hansen says the science of the situation is CLEAR. He gives all sorts of doomsday facts about the catastrophe that will happen – at some point in the future – with no apparent regard for the fact that we have found out a lot of relevant stuff since 1988 and that we might find out something else at any time that changes our view or the balance of the evidence. He ignores peer reviewed science on the attribution of extreme weather events and says that it IS caused by human induced climate change. He maintains that if Canadian tar sands and tar “shale” are exploited we WILL add enough CO2 to hit 500 ppm and at that level it IS game over. Ice sheets will disintegrate, sea level rises will drown coastal cities, and global temperatures will become “intolerable” with up to 50 of all species dying out. He knows this – he says there would be no hope of avoiding this outcome although over what time scale this will happen he doesn’t say. But we are to understand that we will be leaving our children a climate out of control, and essentially a planet in tatters.
Given that you accept that there might be factors that we don’t understand properly and concede by necessity the fact that we are always learning – Do you believe that Hansen “thinks like a scientist” and not, for example, like an activist?”
Projections of what will happen are uncertain, and Hansen does a good job, as a scientist at pointing out where more work should be done to get better data, so that models and projections can be improved.
What fuels his activism is the knowledge that humans react to immediate threats that they can sense easily, and fail to act against evolving threats that are not immediately visible. He understands that it takes advance planning to reduce emissions, and that the effects are delayed, but and that climate engineering is not a safe strategy to rely on when climate change damaging to humans and their habitat becomes evident. He believes the downside risk is very great, and the costs of taking action are marginal, relative to the benefits of playing it safe. His viewpoint seems to be shared by a great majority of climate scientists and other scientific organizations. His activism is based on scientific knowledge.
Floyd Doughty wrote:
“The truth is that the observations, opinions, and views I have expressed are the result of independent critical thought, are strictly my own, and do not in any way represent those of my employer, the oil industry in general, or any other entities.”
Floyd,
I don’t doubt what you say. However there are statistics that show economic geologists, who work on resource extraction are among the most skpetical of AGW:
http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf
“The two areas of expertise in the survey with the smallest percentage of participants
answering yes to question 2 were economic geology with 47% (48 of 103) and meteorology with 64% (23 of 36)..”
My personal opinion is that the opposition to AGW among these groups is not because of pressure by their employers. It is more a question of cognitive dissonance related to their opinions acquired while engaging in their profession.
In the case of petroleum and coal geologists, they are focused on finding and extracting resources. If they believed that AGW would be the result of their efforts, it would be emotionally difficult for them to continue doing what they do. So many of them find reasons to reject AGW.
In the case of meteorologists, where 64% of the sample accepted AGW, their training and job is to look at the short term evolution of weather, and use certain kinds of prediction algorithms to do that. The idea of using different models and methodology, conflicts with their previous training, which is somewhat different from climatologists. Only 36% didn’t accept the reality of AGW.
Babsy says:
May 11, 2012 at 5:41 am
Myrrh says:
May 11, 2012 at 1:51 am
“And what’s worse, you can’t see anything wrong in it..”
They don’t know that they don’t know.
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But…., when I tell them they don’t know? When I tell them they’re excluding the direct, beam, heat from the Sun? They don’t even stop to think about it.. I can’t make them out.
This is the real scandal here, it used to be taught. In industries which need to understand the difference between light and heat applied scientists still understand it. But where is it in these arguments?
The only missing heat here is that which comes direct from the Sun, thermal infrared, which we feel as heat because it is capable of heating matter..
How do they get their clouds?? They just appear magically in their empty space atmosphere where ideal gas hard dots of molecules without weight or volume or attraction rush around at tremendous speeds bouncing off each other and thoroughly mixing..
What’s the matter with them?? And on a blog run by a weatherman!
There was a post by mydogsgotnonose in the Bishops discussion Anthony linked to, http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/5/9/the-yamal-deception.html
he said:
“Manabe and Wetherald 1967 assumed SW down = LW up, a gross exaggeration but not physically incorrect. Houghton assumed all heat transfer is by radiation and is comprised of two LW components, up and down, the two-stream approximation, and black body although this is ambiguous.”
So it was Manabe and Wetherald who first excluded the direct heat from the Sun to the Earth? Were they the ones who came up with the ridiculous fictional fisics that shortwave heats land and oceans? And that the direct, beam, heat from the Sun, thermal infrared, didn’t reach the Earth’s surface? Gosh, so the KT97 and all the comic cartoon AGW energy budgets come back to this?
Hmm, this from wiki: “Throughout the 1970s and 1980s Manabe’s research group published seminal papers using these models to explore the sensitivity of Earth’s climate to changing greenhouse gas concentrations. These papers formed a major part of the first global assessments of climate change published by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.”
Were they the originators or did someone else create the fictional world this comic cartoon energy budget is based on? Why did they exclude the direct heat from the Sun in their fictional concept in 1967? Where they the ones who missed out the Water Cycle?
Do you know who came up with the ludicrous notion that oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide are ideal gases in this cartoon? [Without weight, volume and attraction – and so not subject to gravity and therefore ‘spontaneously diffusing into the atmosphere to mix thoroughly travelling at great speeds through empty space bouncing off other hard dot imaginary molecules’, and so carbon dioxide, which in the real world is heavier than air, ‘accumulating for hundreds and even thousands of years’ in this fictional empty space atmosphere so thoroughly mixed it can’t be separated out without work.]
I’d really like to know where these fictional fisics came from. Was there a master mind behind all this? Someone had to know real physics very well if these were deliberate tweaks.
As I said, I really don’t know what to make of them. They take out the direct heat from the Sun reaching the surface and heating it, which everyone can feel and which bog standard, absolutely basic physics, knows is longwave infrared, that’s why it’s called thermal.. But, they don’t have anything in their comic cartoon that explains what happens to it.. It just sort of disappears. It’s a joke, right?
Errors in the observed data aside, looks like we ended up roughly tracking Scenario C.
Philip Bradley says:
May 10, 2012 at 10:28 pm
“you would not neglect mentioning the possibility that a cooling effect due sulfate aerosols emitted by the rapidly developing Chinese economy , is slowing the increase in temperature.
While sulphates have increased over east and south Asia. There has been a comparable decrease in sulphates over Europe and N America.
Since effect of sulphate aerosols is restricted to the region they are emitted lets look at the temperature trends for these regions.
The USA and likely all of N America (ex Arctic) has warmed substantially less than the global average since 1975, while east Asia has warmed faster than anywhere else (excluding the Arctic) in the last 2 decades.
http://adrem.org.cn/Faculty/GongDY/docu/Enhancement%20of%20the%20warming%20trend%20in%20China.pdf
While south Asia has warmed in line with the global average, all the S Asia warming is in the maximum temperature, which has increased several times faster than the global average. The sulphate cooling theory requires that the cooling be in the maximum temperature.
I think we can safely say the sulphate cooling hypothesis is falsified by the data.”
Your understanding is incorrect, and you can’t safely say that.
The effects of black carbon aerosals are local. These are created by by cooking fires in Asia. Sulphate aerosals are distributed more globally:
http://www.yaleclimatemediaforum.org/2009/07/black-carbon-and-global-warming/
“….More recent work by Hansen and Ramanathan estimates climate forcing from black carbon to be considerably higher – two to four times higher than IPCC estimates, making it the second largest anthropogenic forcing after CO2. Figure Two shows how estimates of black carbon forcings from Ramanathan and Feng compare to IPCC estimates and anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions. The negative forcing resulting from sulphate aerosols (as discussed in a previous Yale Forum article) still considerably outweighs the positive forcing caused by black carbon, and the increases in estimated forcing by Hansen and Ramanathan relative to the numbers used in the IPCC 2007 report do not necessarily require any reassessment of the positive forcing associated with anthropogenic greenhouse gases, given the wide uncertainty range in negative aerosol forcings. …”
Eric Adler
Thanks for your reply. Hansen’s activism is based on scientific knoweldge? What knowledge? Where is the science that supports each and every one of the extreme claims he make in his recent NYT op-ed?
But isn’t it the case that most balanced and non-activist scientists say that in reality we know very littl?. Isn’t it really the case that most thinking mature scientists/engineers, etc. accept that climate science is in its infancy? And that we might learn more at some point in the future?
So what is the value of Hansen’s “knowledge”?
Isn’t it actually true that he speaks from a position of best guess/zealous belief/faith? Given this, why should I listen to what he says? Isn’t it true that his (rather indiosyncratic) pronouncements of doom are very much in the minority? Are Hansen’s wailings about the end being nigh part of the “consensus”? Warmists have been excoriating many distinguished scientists for years for being in the minority – and yet here you are defending Hansen who seems to me to be little more than a soap box zealot telling us we are all going to die whilst sensible peopleare trying to find out what is really happening.
RB says:
May 11, 2012 at 11:42 am
“Eric Adler
Thanks for your reply. Hansen’s activism is based on scientific knoweldge? What knowledge? Where is the science that supports each and every one of the extreme claims he make in his recent NYT op-ed?”
The science behind what he says can be found in the most prestigious scientific publications.
It is a fact that high concentrations of CO2 are associated with deglaciation. There are publications which project drought and warming in the American southwest as a result of global warming. Hansen isn’t making this stuff up out of his imagination. I don’t have the time to dig up the links for you. As far as extinction of species goes, here is a diagram from the IPCC report. The numbers may not be exactly what Hansen says, but they are considerable especially at the highest level of temperature change
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/figure-4-4.html
“But isn’t it the case that most balanced and non-activist scientists say that in reality we know very littl?. Isn’t it really the case that most thinking mature scientists/engineers, etc. accept that climate science is in its infancy? And that we might learn more at some point in the future?”
I don’t have any polling results of climate scientists that say that. Pielke and Annan polled climate scientists, and about 70% agree that the IPCC consensus is about right, or too conservative regarding the impact of AGW.
So what is the value of Hansen’s “knowledge”?
“Isn’t it actually true that he speaks from a position of best guess/zealous belief/faith? Given this, why should I listen to what he says? Isn’t it true that his (rather indiosyncratic) pronouncements of doom are very much in the minority? Are Hansen’s wailings about the end being nigh part of the “consensus”? Warmists have been excoriating many distinguished scientists for years for being in the minority – and yet here you are defending Hansen who seems to me to be little more than a soap box zealot telling us we are all going to die whilst sensible peopleare trying to find out what is really happening.”
Hansen has been doing scientific research for many years. His predictions are based on the results of scientific research. There may not be the dead certainty in all of it that you would like, but given the probability of a good bit of it being correct, relative to the cost of reducing emissions, which is a small percentage of GDP, his reaction doesn’t seem wrong to me. The difficulty is that the predictions of problems are based on sophisticated analysis, and the costs of prevention, although modest are more real to people. The politicization of the reaction in the US, and some other countries has created a lower level of credulity of the science among the general population according to polling.
However, in general, is is well known that scientific organizations in most disciplines, have generally agreed that AGW is a threat, and action is necessary. I don’t see how you can deny that fact.
Eric Adler says:
May 11, 2012 at 1:32 pm
“However, in general, is is well known that scientific organizations in most disciplines, have generally agreed that AGW is a threat, and action is necessary. I don’t see how you can deny that fact.”
Ahhhhhh! The consensus! I completely forgot about it. There ya go!
Eric Alder; Your solution is typically devoid of critical thinking. Lets say you are correct and the government needs to “act”. By placing draconian regulations on business to capture Co2, (which technology does not exist), besides raising prices on everything and collapsing our economy, it only serves to drive businesses and jobs overseas to India and China where they have no limitations on REAL pollution. Would that satisfy you? Don’t be a drone.
Eric Adler said: “relative to the cost of reducing emissions, which is a small percentage of GDP, his reaction doesn’t seem wrong to me. The difficulty is that the predictions of problems are based on sophisticated analysis, and the costs of prevention, although modest are more real to people. The politicization of the reaction in the US, and some other countries has created a lower level of credulity of the science among the general population according to polling.
However, in general, is is well known that scientific organizations in most disciplines, have generally agreed that AGW is a threat, and action is necessary. I don’t see how you can deny that fact.”
Eric: I calculated that there is approciamtely 1.24 E-10 ppmv/tonne of atmospheric CO2. The annual growth factor is ~2.5 ppmv. The total annual emissions in the USA are about 5.8 billion metric tonnes of CO2. Even if you wiped out ALL of those emissions ( which would be impossible in the USA and very difficult to achieve worldwide ) you would only reduce the annual growth of CO2 by .72 ppmv or 28.8%. At the current equilibrium pressure with the oceans, it is literally impossible to stop atmospheric CO2 growth without the oceans cooling off. According to Hansen’s modeling, cooling cannot occur unless the atmospheric concentrations fall.
Your assumptions are the calculus of a fool if you stop and think about it and realizing that humans cannot stop CO2 growth and therefore temperature increases according to Hansen should make anyone pause and take note of the fact his modeling and assumptions are fatally wrong and flawed. Observations are now proving this. Carbon reduction schemes are based upon fraud and trickery and being foisted on the the public by all sorts of political BS that has become self serving to government and all of the others who ride its coat tails for public funding that has become the AGW gravy train. I’d like to get off of this wasteful funding junket and so would a lot of others.
Eric Adler says:
May 11, 2012 at 1:32 pm
RB says:
May 11, 2012 at 11:42 am
“Eric Adler
Thanks for your reply. Hansen’s activism is based on scientific knoweldge? What knowledge? Where is the science that supports each and every one of the extreme claims he make in his recent NYT op-ed?”
The science behind what he says can be found in the most prestigious scientific publications.
==
This is where I get stumpted, agin and agin. How does carbon dioxide drive global temperatures to the great heat necessary to get us out of our Ice Age and into interglacials when it lags temperature increases by c800 years? I think you’re deliberately keeping this a secret from us because I haven’t been able to find the method and no one is willing to explain how it does this – tell us, truthfully, this is some kind of alchemical magic, right? That only believers can understand? Or maybe carbon dioxide is just pretending it’s an ordinary molecule, quite wimpy with no heat capacity to speak of and hardly much of it around anyway, but it’s really an alien from a far superior civilisation with tremendous powers, able to raise the temperature of the Earth and melt gazillions of tons of ice in a few years raising the sea level 350 ft plus and making the Earth all balmy for his arrival 800 years later, and then, with super superpowers he can make a huge insulating blanket of himself all around the Earth heating it more and more and, how exactly does he do this when there’s still nuttin much of him even if quadrupled in amount and he’s still practically, as far as the non-initiates can see, 100% holes?
Or, maybe you don’t how either.
I am having trouble understanding why Doughty wrote this blog post. Looking at the GISS temperature record since 2000, 8 of 11 points are actually touch the Scenario B line and only 3 are closer to Scenario C than B. What is the big deal? This is not a lot of data. If you examine the ENSO index for the years where the points are low, they are La Nina years – 2008 2009 and 2011.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/enso/mei/
Eric Adler
“Sceptical Lefty ,
Hansen’s first scientific work was on the climate of Venus, where Sulfate particles play a strong role in the climate of the planet. What he may have missed was prediction of the course of the Chinese economic growth, how much coal they might use, and what their policy on sulfate pollution might be. The IPCC does include sulfate aerosals as part of their forcing and it accounts for a lot of the uncertainty in the radiational forcing of the climate, along with the feedback due to clouds.”
You appear to have missed my point, which wasn’t about the effect of sulphate aerosols. It was about the fact that Hansen’ predictions, on the evidence he adduced, turned out to be wrong! Now, whether it was sulphate aerosols, or CFCs, or a spontaneous release of submarine methane, or anything else, the fact remains that he was wrong. For this he is not to be particularly blamed, for climate science is poorly understood and there is a plethora of variables, some of which are not yet known. Where he IS to be blamed is for making bold ‘scientific’ assertions on a subject about which far too little is known — by him or anyone else. Great decisions of policy were supposed to be made on the basis of this. His attitude was grossly irresponsible, at best.
I am not about to waste space with examples of general consensus overturned, or scientific mistakes and deceptions. There have been plenty. If we could just admit that WE DON’T KNOW, then the proper attitude would be to proceed with caution — not go into blind panic at the vague possibility of a worst possible outcome.
Myrrh says:
May 11, 2012 at 5:17 pm
I’ve been thinking. You know, it was a good thing that the Apollo 13 crew had an excess of CO2 in their spacecraft because if that hadn’t occurred they would have frozen to death on their trip back home. The extra CO2 on board kept them warm. Since CO2 warms the atmosphere, I mean. It truly is the Magic Gas, is it not?
Eric Adler says:
Your understanding is incorrect, and you can’t safely say that.
The effects of black carbon aerosals are local. These are created by by cooking fires in Asia. Sulphate aerosals are distributed more globally:
All your link says is that Hansen and others assert that the sulphate cooling is greater than the black carbon warming. And note I didn’t say anything about BC warming.
Otherwise, I can’t see any evidence based argument against the data falsifying the sulphate cooling hypothesis.
If sulphates are causing cooling show me where this is occurring.
You can start with the graphic I posted above that shows high sulphate levels are exclusively over central and eastern China.
It is a fact that high concentrations of CO2 are associated with deglaciation.
Indeed they are ‘associated’, but cause MUST precede effect. We know from the ice cores that CO2 concentrations rise after temperatures rise and presumably deglaciation occurs.
As a result we can say the following with absolute certainty based on the ice cores.
Increasing CO2 concentrations do NOT cause increasing temperatures or cause deglaciation.
Increasing temperatures and deglaciation MAY cause increasing CO2 concentrations.
Eric, you are clearly not a scientist and aren’t capable of the kind of logical, fact based argument that science requires.
The problem for them is that you can’t extort trillion$ out of the public coffers if graph line “C” is the reality….
Eric Adler says:
May 11, 2012 at 5:19 pm
“I am having trouble understanding why Doughty wrote this blog post. Looking at the GISS temperature record since 2000”
Maybe this chart would be clearer for you?
http://neighbors.denverpost.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=10622&sid=61fd10a0c0ec6869d17a0083df6fe85c
dougetit says:
May 11, 2012 at 8:09 pm
“Eric Adler says:
May 11, 2012 at 5:19 pm
“I am having trouble understanding why Doughty wrote this blog post. Looking at the GISS temperature record since 2000″
Maybe this chart would be clearer for you?
http://neighbors.denverpost.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=10622&sid=61fd10a0c0ec6869d17a0083df6fe85c”
I don’t know the origin of the chart you posted in the above link. It looks different from Doughty’s.
My comment referred to Doughty’s graph, which did not make Hansen’s prediction look very bad.
I’ve never considered plotting Hansen’s Co2 projections or even looked them up, but the actual’s plot basically a straight line since the 50’s when standard measurements started, with only seasonal ups and downs. Those graphs were done on a previous computer and are gone. It would be interesting to do it again though with updated numbers
The most informative graph would just show Scenario A, the associated CO2 level projection, the actual CO2 observations, and the temperature record.
That would show that his algorithm is even further off than A indicates.
Eric Alder Says “I don’t know the origin of the chart you posted in the above link. It looks different from Doughty’s. My comment referred to Doughty’s graph, which did not make Hansen’s prediction look very bad.”
The author is listed in the lower right corner of the graph. I used actual GISS and UAH numbers and the graph uses Hansen’s 1988 computer projections, which shows a more dramatic incline. Remember, this is what Hansen needed to do to grab the politicians/publics attention/funding. If he had failed, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Doughty’s chart is on Hansen’s 1999 graph which seems to be toned down a bit just as his future projections will be as well so as to be more in-line with empirical evidence. The lesson here would be that Hansen doesn’t hesitate to move the goal posts, and certainly unable to admit that he was wrong.
More of my graphs can be found at: http://neighbors.denverpost.com/album_personal.php?user_id=97114