I would not have believed this had I not seen this come from this idiot’s Senator’s mouth. Take the three most inefficient and subsidized things in government today, add them together, and there’s no way that spells SUCCESS. It does spell FAIL though.
From Fox News website (via C-SPAN)
As the potential collapse of the United States Postal Service looms on the horizon, one Senate Democrat has proposed an unusual plan to solve the crisis.
Senator Tom Carper (D-DE) looks to harvest the electricity that windmill farms produce in order to power a new fleet of battery-operated postal delivery vehicles, replacing the previous ’25 to 30 years old’ ‘dilapidated’ vehicles.
The Senator admits the idea is “out there” but concludes that “we need to be thinking boldly, and the postal service needs to do that”
Watch the video:
If you are a constituent you need to sound off. The stupidity of this idea is not only robust, it is unprecedented. Electric vehicles do better on long hauls and commutes, stop/start a thousand times a day at each mailbox, not so much.
They’d be FORD’s (Found On Road Discharged) the first day.
(h/t) Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
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Mr Lynn says:
April 26, 2012 at 5:26 am
[snip]
Re the USPS: To do away with it would probably require a Constitutional amendment, as the Congress is given the power in the Constitution “To establish Post Offices and Post roads.” Conceivably the Congress could simply fail to exercise that power, but arguably it is also a responsibility. In the age of email, the postman’s daily rounds may seem archaic, but, believe it or not, there are many who linger by the electronic wayside. And one has to wonder at the efficacy of a government which cannot successfully accomplish the basic function of “delivering the mail.”
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The fact that a Constitution gives a government the power to do something does not in any way require the government to do it. Our Constitution, being a bit later than yours, also covers telecommunications. But, the government privatised the original government owned telecommunications monopoly and there was not a whiff of a chance that it was unconstitutional to do so. What remains, as probably would in the US, is the power to regulate the industry.
With regard to the economic situation of USPS, I read extensive comments on another site about the retirement benefits issue. The problem seems to be that it includes healthcare (which most countries do not expect retirement benefits to cover) and apparently a sweetheart deal done with the unions at some stage where people could retire after 20 years. It is not hard to see how this toxic combination would sink any enterprise into bankruptcy – just ask the big carmakers. But it seems that without these deadweights, USPS would be in the black as a trading enterprise.
If I am wrong, please correct me. Postal services excite a lot of emotion in the political sphere and sometimes facts are hard to come by!
How about canceling the free postal privileges for Congress. That should generate enough cash to put the postal service in the black.
Oh and at least around here the truck tractors are leased and the rural delivery postal carriers use their own vehicles. I have not seen a small Postal vehicle (jeep) in years.
I wonder how those electric postal vehicles will do pulling 53 foot trailers. This photo comes to mind.
In my neighborhood ( S. FL ) things are as they should be. The postman walks.
“The Senator admits the idea is “out there” but concludes that “we need to be thinking boldly, and the postal service needs to do that”
Now, imagine that our entire national economy being commanded by such bod thinking. #Notfunny.
At the end of our road at Ednor, Maryland, many years ago there stood Cuff’s General Store (now long gone). Mr. Cuff was a gruff old fellow whose main product, as far as we kids were concerned, was penny candy. Inside the store was a separate room with a window that functioned as a Post Office branch, manned by a kindly Mrs. Tucker.
No reason in the world why the Postal Service couldn’t set up little branches in supermarkets. Our nearby (and gigantic) Stop and Shop has a Dunkin’ Donuts, and a branch of Citizens Bank.
/Mr Lynn
I’m not usually someone that likes the political grandstanding that occasionally goes on in the comments section but in this case … this has to be dumbest idea I’ve seen this century.
From Wikipedia:
Before BEVs, dairy supplies were delivered using horse-drawn milk floats. This lasted from the late 19th century until the 1950s.[5] Today, with rounds expanding in coverage to ensure profitability in the face of falling levels of patronage, the limited range and speed of electric milk floats have resulted in many being replaced by diesel-powered converted va
The next step is for the electrically powered postal vehicles to produce surplus electricity by mounting wind turbines on their roofs. As the vehicle moves, the movement will provide power to the wind turbine which will not only power the vehicle, but which will create excess power that will be stored in batteries and used to power the grid. I mean, what could go wrong?? /sarc
I realize that David M did not author this, but, this still deserves to be addressed:
“Electric vehicles do better on long hauls and commutes, stop/start a thousand times a day at each mailbox, not so much.”
kinetic energy recovery much?
The whole ‘point’ of hybrids was kinetic (motion) and potential (descending from top of hill) energy ‘recovery’ of the energy expended in gaining forward movement (or ascending that hill) by using the motor as a generator when the brakes (literally: using ‘dynamic braking’) are applied … the same applies to electric vehicles (recovery of kinetic and potential energy.)
In the case where one is constantly battling a head wind (at say 50 orm 60 mph) THIS energy is __not__ recoverable through any ‘magic’ tricks including dynamic braking trick described above …
.
Addressing this last point from a ‘lost energy’ perspective (ICE vs battery/electric):
Electric (and hybrid) Vehicle * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Accelerating:
Battery -< Chemical Energy -< Electrical Energy -< Motor -> Kinetic Energy
Stopping:
Kinetic Energy -< Generator -< Electrical Energy -< Chemical Energy -< Battery
ICE (only) Vehicle * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Accelerating:
Fuel -< Chemical Energy -< Thermal Energy -< Engine -> Kinetic Energy
Stopping:
Kinetic Energy –< Friction Brakes –< Thermal Energy -< Surrounding Air
Conclusion:
Use of “ICE only” motive power plant (engine/motor etc) results in unrecoverable Kinetic (forward motion) energy.
How efficient the Generator -< Electrical Enegy -< Chemical Energy conversions work out to be are engineering/technical issues to be solved.
.
Oops! Muffed it!
All symbols above should be -> symbols! Oops!
Mr Lynn says:
April 25, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Andrew Newberg says:
April 25, 2012 at 7:45 pm
“They’d be FORD’s (Found On Road Discharged) the first day.”
I thought it was Fix Or Repair Daily…
“Found On The Road Dead” back in the days of the PIntos with the vulnerable gas tanks.
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Actually it means First On Race Day.
Yes, the U.S. Constitution gives Congress the power to establish Post Offices (Article I, Section 8, Clause 7). That doesn’t mean it will take an amendment to do away with the USPS. It only takes an act of Congress.
Congress could dissolve the USPS and privatize mail service. No Constitutional issue involved.
Not even close to the worst I’ve heard. What about Hank Johnson from GA that worried that Guam would capsize if too many people moved to one side of the island?
You just can’t make this stuff up.
polistra says:
April 26, 2012 at 6:05 am
I don’t know why so many people assume the PO drives to every house. In all the places I’ve lived, they walk a radius of 6 city blocks around the parked car, then move the car. The car moves about twice an hour.
_____________________________
Why don’t they just go back to the Pony Express? Actually the use of a pony (or horse) drawn vehicle in town for delivery is not that idiotic because a horse/pony has a brain and is very good at memorizing a route. This makes it a bit of a time saver because the pony can haul the boxes and mail so the postman does not have to back track to the truck. It also saves wear and tear on the rotator cuff (shoulder) a common injury in mailmen.
A one horse vehicle with shafts can have a “diaper” to catch manure. http://www.delcaminoequestrian.com/images/wedding_horse_rubber_shoes_phaeton.jpg
This type of delivery with a trained horse/pony used to be very common. My husband’s aunt delivered milk using a pony cart.
Hank Johnson was elected because his opposition was Cynthia McKinney, who not only is even more cerebrally challenged than he, but abused what little authority she was given. Unfortunately, they are both reflective of the community they represent. That community, though, is not typical of the rest of the state.
Actually in the US there were Postal Processing Trains that had their own zip codes up through the 1950’s. Those post offices died about the same time most of the passenger service died. These were mobile processing centers that collected the mail from the stations, sorted it into its destinations and dropped it at the right mail hook along the route. They were a mainstay of the long distance mail service before the common use of air mail.
On the electric postal vehicle issue: in the old days the postman parked the vehicle at the end of the block then walked the mail door to door (up to an hour out and back) returned to their vehicle moved to the next large block and walked the mail from the next bag. In that model, an electric vehicle with solar panels on the roof makes alot of sense, as the vehicle sits in the sun for an hour between 10 minute moves. On routes like that, electric vehicles make alot of sense, but you would still need to make sure the route wasn’t longer than 1/2 to 2/3 of the rated battery range to account for cold/cloudy weather use. For the standard modern route where the postman just drives up to the mailboxes, stops, stuffs mail in the box, then drives to the next box, electric cars would be a disaster.
polistra says:
April 26, 2012 at 6:05 am
I don’t know why so many people assume the PO drives to every house. In all the places I’ve lived, they walk a radius of 6 city blocks around the parked car, then move the car. The car moves about twice an hour.
_____________________________
In my old neighborhood, the mailboxes were at the curb and the PO would drive to every one and put the mail in without getting out of the truck. In my mom’s neighborhood, in the same city, the mailboxes are next to the door, so the PO has to walk.
@Gail: The carriage tour companies in Savannah, GA have “horse diaper” setups for two horse carriage teams as well – the diaper is part of the harness setup.
The new US Postal System – at your service, but only when the wind blows. Thats Tuesday and Wednesday next week, then a gap of ten days or so, and then the Sateruday and Sunday. But since we do not work on Sunday, your won’t get anything then either.
And the US needs to increase productivity and efficiencies?? Not with these brain-dead pirrocks in Congress.
.
>>TomB says: April 26, 2012 at 10:42 am
>>>Not even close to the worst I’ve heard. What about Hank
>>>Johnson from GA that worried that Guam would capsize if too
>>>many people moved to one side of the island?
How did that US Navy officer not burst into laughter? They must have special military schools, to teach a ‘straight face’ technique.
Is this what affirmative action does for a nation??
Silver Ralph: Poker is a required subject for junior officers at the O’club.
Owen in GA says:
April 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm
@Gail: The carriage tour companies in Savannah, GA have “horse diaper” setups for two horse carriage teams as well – the diaper is part of the harness set up.
__________________________
I used to do weddings with a two horse set-up (same carriage as in photo but pole instead of shafts) and used the bun bags. The “horse diaper” between shafts is much bigger and can hold a lot more so it is much better for all day use. Also you really do not need a two horse set-up given the load I have seen in postal trucks. A team of heavy draft horses by the name of Smuck and Louie had a record pull of 4900 pounds ~ over 2000lbs/horse. I have a 600 lb.Shetland pony that routinely pulls over 1000 pounds. The Shetland is the strongest horse for its size and can easily pull twice its own weight. They were used in coal mines in the USA as recently as 1950. In the UK they still had 55 ponies working in the mines in 1984. Shetlands live on air and founder on “fat air” one acre or less of decent grass will support a Shetland. They are calm and very smart too.
At the rate fuel prices are increasing I may be hitching a pony team to drive to town for shopping. If my ponies were shod I would be doing it already.
If PETA didn’t throw a hissy fit you could easily do a 25 to 30 mile route without stressing the animal. The electric vehicle has a max range of 100 miles. If PETA didn’t throw a hissy fit you could easily do a 25 to 30 mile route without stressing the animal (mainly walk with a bit of trot). The Pony Express riders were changed every 75 to 100 miles and horses were changed every 10 to 15 miles but they were running full out.
HMMMmmmm Maybe I can get my Senator to make this a counter proposal for putting to work all those horses that have been abandoned. Kill two birds with one stone, not to mention a few mail men and motorists if they try to use crazy ex-race horses.
Steve says:
April 26, 2012 at 1:11 am
Please, don’t laugh. The idea of storing ‘spare’ electricity in the batteries of the cars owned by the general public was being mooted a couple of years ago in the UK.
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Actually the idea of “distributed storage” through EV battery packs remains an important idea among the people that tout the “green” economy. I find it to be one of the more amusing fantasies of “green” EV lovin’ crowd. The Senator must have just been advised by one these geeks.
Supposedly one of the benefits of the EV is that an owner could charge the battery up at off peak electrical rates and use it to power his home during peak rates. #1 If almost everybody had an EV there wouldn’t be anymore Off peak rate. #2 A battery pack has a finite number of cycles in its lifetime. The owner would be prematurely derading his expensive car battery in the hope of saving a few cents on his electrical bill.#3 Most people would drive there car to work during the day. #4 What happens when you need to drive somewhere but your battery is depleted from running household appliances? #5 Who in their right mind is going to want to bother with this crap? I barely feel like plugging up and recharging my kids’ Fisher Price Power wheels Escalade after the kids are done with it.
Gail: I hear you on the shetlands. My wife had one as a child that got into the feed shed and foundered as a result. Died of greedy over eating in one setting – you’d think they would know better.
Personally I love draft horses. My experience is they tend to be much better mannered than the smaller breeds. When an Arabian would bite and kick you, a Belgian will just roll its eyes at you. I have had good experiences with Morgans as well, but I’ve never seen a Morgan lift its hoof for you to get a stone out. Had a Belgian practically knock me down with that dishplate hoof when he lifted it before I was set. He did have the decency to look sheepish about it. The biggest problem in Savannah is keeping the draft horses’ body temperatures down.
We could contract mail delivery to the Amish, or at least the training for those who will drive the carts. They are already used to dealing with wagons and traffic. Rural routes could be difficult though, some of them are bit more than the 30 mile round trip.