Why CAGW theory is not “settled science”

In Andi Cockroft’s story yesterday Climate Science and Special Relativity he asked a prescient question:

For the general public that does not have an objective scientific bent, how do you tell virtual reality from the real thing?

Dr. Brown responded in comments, which was so well thought out, it benefits everyone by elevating it to full post status, and thus is presented below. Like The Skeptics Case, I highly recommend this one as a “must read”. – Anthony

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Guest post by Dr. Robert Brown, Duke University Physics Department

For the general public that does not have an objective scientific bent, how do you tell virtual reality from the real thing?

That’s a serious problem, actually. Hell, I have an objective scientific bent and I have plenty of trouble with it.

Ultimately, the stock answer is: We should believe the most what we can doubt the least, when we try to doubt very hard, using a mix of experience and consistent reason based on a network of experience-supported best (so far) beliefs.

That’s not very hopeful, but it is accurate. We believe Classical Non-Relativistic Mechanics after Newton invents it, not because it is true but because it works fairly consistently to describe Kepler’s purely observational laws, and (as it is tested) works damn well to describe a lot of quotidian experience as well on a scale less grand than planetary orbits. We encounter trouble with classical mechanics a few hundred years later when it fails to consistently describe blackbody radiation, the photoelectric effect (the one thing Einstein actually got the Nobel Prize for), the spectra of atoms, given Maxwell’s enormously successful addition to the equations of electricity and magnetism and the realization that light is an electromagnetic wave.

Planck, Lorentz, Einstein, Bohr, de Broglie, Schrodinger, Heisenberg and many others successively invent modifications that make space-time far more complex and interesting on the one hand — relativity theory — and mechanics itself far, far more complex than Newton could ever have dreamed. The changes were motivated, not by trying to be cool or win prizes, but by failures of the classical Euclidean theory to explain the data! Basically, Classical flat-space mechanics was doomed the day Maxwell first wrote out the correct-er equations of electrodynamics for the first time. We suddenly had the most amazing unified field theory, one that checked out empirically to phenomenal accuracy, and yet when we applied to cases where it almost had to work certain of its predictions failed spectacularly.

In fact, if Maxwell’s Equations and Newton’s Law were both true, the Universe itself should have existed for something far, far less than a second before collapsing in a massive heat death as stable atoms based on any sort of orbital model were impossible. Also, if Maxwell’s equations and flat spacetime with time an independent variable was correct, the laws of nature would not have had the invariance with respect to reference frame that Newtonian physics had up to that time enjoyed. In particular, moving a charged particle into a different inertial reference frame caused magnetic fields to appear, making it clear that the electric and magnetic fields were not actually vector forms! The entire geometry and tensor nature of space and time in Newtonian physics was all wrong.

This process continues today. Astronomer’s observe the rotational properties of distant galaxies to very high precision using the red shift and blue shift of the stars as they orbit the galactic center. The results don’t seem to agree with Newton’s Law of Gravitation (or for that matter, with Einstein’s equivalent theory of general relativity that views gravitation as curvature of spacetime. Careful studies of neutrinos lead to anomalies, places where theory isn’t consistent with observation. Precise measurements of the rates at which the Universe is expanding at very large length scales (and hence very long times ago, in succession as one looks farther away and back in time at distant galaxies) don’t quite add up to what the simplest theories predict and we expect. Quantum theory and general relativity are fundamentally inconsistent, but nobody knows quite how to make a theory that is “both” in the appropriate limits.

People then try to come up with bigger better theories, ones that explain everything that is well-explained with the old theories but that embrace the new observations and explain them as well. Ideally, the new theories predict new phenomena entirely and a careful search reveals it there where the theory predicts. And all along there are experiments — some of them fabulous and amazing — discovering high temperature superconductors, inventing lasers and masers, determining the properties of neutrinos (so elusive they are almost impossible to measure at all, yet a rather huge fraction of what is going on in the Universe). Some experiments yield results that are verified; others yield results — such as the several times that magnetic monopoles have been “observed” in experiments — that have not been reproducible and are probably spurious and incorrect. Neutrinos that might — even now — have gone faster than light, but again — probably not. A Higgs particle that seems to appear for a moment as a promising bump in an experimental curve and then fades away again, too elusive to be pinned down — so far. Dark matter and dark energy that might explain some of the unusual cosmological observations but a) are only one of several competing explanations; and b) that have yet to be directly observed. The “dark” bit basically means that they don’t interact at all with the electromagnetic field, making them nearly impossible to see — so far.

Physicists therefore usually know better than to believe the very stuff that they peddle. When I teach students introductory physics, I tell them up front — “Everything I’m going to teach you over the next two semesters is basically wrong — but it works, and works amazingly well, right up to where it doesn’t work and we have to find a better, broader explanation.” I also tell them not to believe anything I tell them because I’m telling them, and I’m the professor and therefore I know and its up to them to parrot me and believe it or else. I tell them quite the opposite. Believe me because what I teach you makes sense (is consistent), corresponds at least roughly with your own everyday experience, and because when you check it in the labs and by doing computations that can be compared to e.g. planetary observations, they seem to work. And believe me only with a grain of salt then — because further experiments and observations will eventually prove it all wrong.

That isn’t to say that we don’t believe some things very strongly. I’m a pretty firm believer in gravity, for example. Sure, it isn’t exactly right, or consistent with quantum theory at the smallest and perhaps largest of scales, but it works so very, very well in between and it is almost certainly at least approximately true, true enough in the right milieu. I’m very fond of Maxwell’s Equations and both classical and, in context, quantum theory, as they lead to this amazing description of things like atoms and molecules that is consistent and that works — up to a point — to describe nearly everything we see every day. And so on.

But if somebody were to argue that gravitation isn’t really a perfect 1/r^2 force, and deviations at very long length scales are responsible for the observed anomalies in galactic rotation, I’d certainly listen. If the new theory still predicts the old results, explains the anomaly, I’d judge it to be quite possibly true. If it predicted something new and startling, something that was then observed (variations in near-Earth gravitation in the vicinity of Uranium mines, anomalies in the orbits of planets near black holes, unique dynamics in the galactic cores) then I might even promote it to more probably true than Newton’s Law of Gravitation, no matter how successful, simple, and appealing it is. In the end, it isn’t esthetics, it isn’t theoretic consistency, it isn’t empirical support, it is a sort of a blend of all three, something that relies heavily on common sense and human judgement and not so much on a formal rule that tells us truth.

Where does that leave one in the Great Climate Debate? Well, it damn well should leave you skeptical as all hell. I believe in the theory of relativity. Let me explain that — I really, really believe in the theory of relativity. I believe because it works; it explains all sorts of experimental stuff. I can run down a list of experimental observations that are explained by relativity that could scarcely be explained by anything else — factors of two in spin-orbit coupling constants, the tensor forms and invariants of electromagnetism, the observation of \mu-mesons produced from cosmic ray collisions in the upper atmosphere far down near the surface of the Earth where they have no business being found given a lifetime of \sim 2 microseconds — and observation I personally have made — and of course all the particle accelerators in the known Universe would fail miserably in their engineering if relativity weren’t at least approximately correct. Once you believe in relativity (because it works) it makes some very profound statements about causality, time ordering, and so on — things that might well make all the physics I think that I know inconsistent if it were found to be untrue.

Yet I was — and continue to be — at least willing to entertain the possibility that I might have to chuck the whole damn thing, wrong from top to bottom — all because a silly neutrino in Europe seems to be moving faster than it should ever be aver to move. Violations of causality, messages from the future, who knows what carnage such an observation (verified) might wreak! I’m properly skeptical because what we have observed — so far — works so very consistently, and the result itself seems to be solidly excluded by supernova data already in hand, but you know, my beliefs don’t dictate reality — it is rather the other way around.

The sad thing about the Great Climate Debate is that so far, there hasn’t really been a debate. The result is presented, but no one ever takes questions from the podium and is capable of defending their answers against a knowledgeable and skeptical questioner.

I can do that for all of my beliefs in physics — or at least, most of them — explain particular experiments that seem to verify my beliefs (as I do above). I’m quite capable of demonstrating their consistency both theoretically (with other physical laws and beliefs) and with experiment. I’m up front about where those beliefs fail, where they break down, where we do not know how things really work. Good science admits its limits, and never claims to be “settled” even as it does lead to defensible practice and engineering where it seems to work — for now.

Good science accepts limits on experimental precision. Hell, in physics we have to accept a completely non-classical limitation on experimental precision, one so profound that it sounds like a violation of simple logic to the uninitiated when they first try to understand it. But quite aside from Heisenberg, all experimental apparatus and all measurements are of limited precision, and the most honest answer for many things we might try to measure is “damfino” (damned if I know).

The Great Climate Debate, however, is predicated from the beginning on one things. We know what the global average temperature has been like for the past N years, where N is nearly anything you like. A century. A thousand years. A hundred thousand years. A hundred million years. Four billion years.

We don’t, of course. Not even close. Thermometers have only been around in even moderately reliable form for a bit over 300 years — 250 would be a fairer number — and records of global temperatures measured with even the first, highly inaccurate devices are sparse indeed until maybe 200 years ago. Most of the records from over sixty or seventy years ago are accurate to no more than a degree or two F (a degree C), and some of them are far less accurate than that. As Anthony has explicitly demonstrated, one can confound even a digital electronic automatic recording weather station thermometer capable of at least 0.01 degree resolution by the simple act of setting it up in a stupid place, such as the southwest side of a house right above a concrete driveway where the afternoon sun turns its location into a large reflector oven. Or in the case of early sea temperatures, by virtue of measuring pails of water pulled up from over the side with crude instruments in a driving wind cooling the still wet bulb pulled out of the pail.

In truth, we have moderately accurate thermal records that aren’t really global, but are at least sample a lot of the globe’s surface exclusive of the bulk of the ocean for less than one century. We have accurate records — really accurate records — of the Earth’s surface temperatures on a truly global basis for less than forty years. We have accurate records that include for the first time a glimpse of the thermal profile, in depth, of the ocean, that is less than a decade old and counting, and is (as Willis is pointing out) still highly uncertain no matter what silly precision is being claimed by the early analysts of the data. Even the satellite data — precise as it is, global as it is — is far from free from controversy, as the instrumentation itself in the several satellites that are making the measurements do not agree on the measured temperatures terribly precisely.

In the end, nobody really knows the global average temperature of the Earth’s surface in 2011 within less than around 1K. If anybody claims to, they are full of shit. Perhaps — and a big perhaps it is — they know it more precisely than this relative to a scheme that is used to compute it from global data that is at least consistent and not crazy — but it isn’t even clear that we can define the global average temperature in a way that really makes sense and that different instruments will measure the same way. It is also absolutely incredibly unlikely that our current measurements would in any meaningful way correspond to what the instrumentation of the 18th and 19th century measured and that is turned into global average temperatures, not within more than a degree or two.

This complicates things, given that a degree or two (K) appears to be very close to the natural range of variation of the global average temperature when one does one’s best to compute it from proxy records. Things get more complicated still when all of the best proxy reconstructions in the world get turned over and turned out in favor of “tree ring reconstructions” based upon — if not biased by — a few species of tree from a tiny handful of sites around the world.

The argument there is that tree rings are accurate thermometers. Of course they aren’t — even people in the business have confessed (in climategate letters, IIRC) that if they go into their own back yards and cut down trees and try to reconstruct the temperature of their own back yard based on the rings, it doesn’t work. Trees grow one year because your dog fertilizes them, fail to grow another not because it is cold but because it is dry, grow poorly in a perfect year because a fungus attacks the leaves. If one actually plots tree ring thicknesses over hundreds of years, although there is a very weak signal that might be thermal in nature, there is a hell of a lot of noise — and many, many parts of the world simply don’t have trees that survived to be sampled. Such as the 70% of the Earth’s surface that is covered by the ocean…

But the complication isn’t done yet — the twentieth century perhaps was a period of global warming — at least the period from roughly 1975 to the present where we have reasonably accurate records appears to have warmed a bit — but there were lots of things that made the 20th century, especially the latter half, unique. Two world wars, the invention and widespread use and testing of nuclear bombs that scattered radioactive aerosols throughout the stratosphere, unprecedented deforestation and last but far from least a stretch where the sun appeared to be far more active than it had been at any point in the direct observational record, and (via various radiometric proxies) quite possibly for over 10,000 years. It isn’t clear what normal conditions are for the climate — something that historically appears to be nearly perpetually in a state of at least slow change, warming gradually or cooling gradually, punctuated with periods where the heating or cooling is more abrupt (to the extent the various proxy reconstructions can be trusted as representative of truly global temperature averages) — but it is very clear indeed that the latter 19th through the 20th centuries were far from normal by the standards of the previous ten or twenty centuries.

Yet on top of all of this confounding phenomena — with inaccurate and imprecise thermal records in the era of measurements, far less accurate extrapolations of the measurement era using proxies, with at most 30-40 years of actually accurate and somewhat reproducible global thermal measurements, most of it drawn from the period of a Grand Solar Maximum — climatologists have claimed to find a clear signal of anthropogenic global warming caused strictly by human-produced carbon dioxide. They are — it is claimed — certain that no other phenomena could be the proximate cause of the warming. They are certain when they predict that this warming will continue until a global catastrophe occurs that will kill billions of people unless we act in certain ways now to prevent it.

I’m not certain relativity is correct, but they are certain that catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is a true hypothesis with precise predictions and conclusions. I have learned to doubt numerical simulations that I myself have written that are doing simple, easily understandable things that directly capture certain parts of physics. They are doing far, far more complex numerical simulations — the correct theoretical answer, recall, is a solution to a set of coupled non-Markovian Navier-Stokes equation with a variable external driver and still unknown feedbacks in a chaotic regime with known important variability on multiple decadal or longer timescales — and yet they are certain that their results are correct, given the thirty plus years of accurate global thermal data (plus all of the longer timescale reconstructions or estimates they can produce from the common pool of old data, with all of its uncertainties).

Look, here’s how you can tell — to get back to your question. You compare the predictions of their “catastrophic” theory five, ten, twenty years back to the actual data. If there is good agreement, it is at least possible that they are correct. The greater the deviation between observed reality and their predictions, the more likely it is that their result is at least incorrect if not actual bullshit. That’s all. Accurately predicting the future isn’t proof that they are right, but failing to predict it is pretty strong evidence that they are wrong.

Such a comparison fails. It actually fails way back in the twentieth century, where it fails to predict or explain the cooling from 1945 to roughly 1965-1970. It fails to predict the little ice age. It fails to predict the medieval climate optimum, or the other periods in the last 10,000 years where the proxy record seems to indicate that the world was as warm or warmer than it is today. But even ignoring that — which we can, because those proxy reconstructions are just as doubtful in their own way as the tree-ring reconstructions, with or without a side-serving of confirmation bias to go with your fries — even ignoring that, it fails to explain the 33 or so years of the satellite record, the only arguably reliable measure of actual global temperatures humans have ever made. For the last third of that period, there has been no statistically significant increase in temperature, and it may even be that the temperature has decreased a bit from a 1998 peak. January of 2012 was nearly 0.1C below the 33 year baseline.

This behavior is explainable and understandable, but not in terms of their models, which predicted that the temperature would be considerably warmer, on average, than it appears to be, back when they were predicting the future we are now living. This is evidence that those models are probably wrong, that some of the variables that they have ignored in their theories are important, that some of the equations they have used have incorrect parameters, incorrect feedbacks. How wrong remains to be seen — if global temperatures actually decline for a few years (and stretch out the period with no increase still further in the process) — it could be that their entire model is fundamentally wrong, badly wrong. Or it could be that their models are partially right but had some of the parameters or physics wrong. Or it could even be that the models are completely correct, but neglected confounding things are temporarily masking the ongoing warming that will soon come roaring back with a catastrophic vengeance.

The latter is the story that is being widely told, to keep people from losing faith in a theory that isn’t working — so far — the way that it should. And I have only one objection to that. Keep your hands off of my money while the theory is still unproven and not in terribly good agreement with reality!

Well, I have other objections as well — open up the debate, acknowledge the uncertainties, welcome contradictory theories, stop believing in a set of theoretical results as if climate science is some sort of religion… but we can start with shit-canning the IPCC and the entire complex arrangement of “remedies” to a problem that may well be completely ignorable and utterly destined to take care of itself long before it ever becomes a real problem.

No matter what, we will be producing far less CO_2 in 30 years than we are today. Sheer economics and the advance of physics and technology and engineering will make fossil-fuel burning electrical generators as obsolete as steam trains. Long before we reach any sort of catastrophe — assuming that CAGW is correct — the supposed proximate cause of the catastrophe will be reversing itself without anyone doing anything special to bring it about but make sensible economic choices.

In the meantime, it would be so lovely if we could lose one single phrase in the “debate”. The CAGW theory is not “settled science”. I’m not even sure there is any such thing.

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Markus Fitzhenry
March 2, 2012 4:53 pm

Reflecting on Robert Browns essay I found a highlight of it with the new study led by the Georgia Institute of Technology that provides (further) evidence of a relationship between melting ice in the Arctic regions and widespread cold outbreaks in the Northern Hemisphere. Inherent in the findings are more understandings of seasonal snow and temperature anomalies across northern continents.
Our personal relation with physics is our immediate realisations, idolisation of man and his ability to interact globally with a planets nature bodes a poor reflection on humility.
Why would science chase the sensitivity of a refraction of a small amount of energy back to surface that generated it with scant regard for the causation of the climate by the absorbed energy of the Earths surfaces?
Hubris? Polliwoffles, pollicracks, polliwinkles? Misanthropic?
I am simply flummoxed at the simplicity of the climate and the complexity of scientists in explaining it.
Consider a steaming gaseous sphere, a malleable hydraulic surface, electro-magnetised, spinning, variation in insolation, unknown galactic parity violations, with rotating magnetic poles and the forces of pressure on its atmosphere.
As the study ‘Arctic Sea Ice Decline May be Driving Snowy Winters Seen in Recent Years’ shows there are decade changes to heat distribution as the sphere overcomes the forces of gravity as the same forces causes a formality of heat distribution within it. Dynamics!
How does one reconcile the relativity of the composition and volumes of Co2 and its atmospheric emissivity as a sensible cause of climate change, compared to the enormity of the Earth composition and volume?
The study says, “Our study demonstrates that the decrease in Arctic sea ice area is linked to changes in the winter Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, the circulation changes result in more frequent episodes of atmospheric blocking patterns, which lead to increased cold surges and snow over large parts of the northern continents.”
Many scientific papers in this dispute, subjected to a fair analysis are just noise, adding nothing to the greater meaning of climate change. A rhetorical focus on mans use of fossil fuels as a driver of climate change was a death trap for climate science, in the process of good science, a philosophical dead end.
I suspect the studies simulations show that diminishing Arctic sea ice induced by significant surface warming in the Arctic Oceans, is caused by a semi decadal multi latitude distribution of heat in Earth and atmospheres. And cooling effect over northern North America, Europe, Siberia and eastern Asia also as the models also showed above-normal winter snowfall in large parts of the northern United States, central Europe, and northern and central China, is further evidence of the musicale climate sensitivity forcing of global Co2 emissivity.
A am perplexed the science community would consider a virtual model possible of organising such complex micro systems with unknown pieces, into a global atmospheric edict. The reality of how the climate works is far from known, let alone the unknown wisdom needed to manage it.
Professor Robert Brown offers great perspective on the evolution of scientific theory and it’s the abuse by the climate science community.
The debate that will rage this academic year is that there is scientific plausibility that climate science principles are not correct. I wouldn’t suggest all of the science needs to be ‘shitbinned’ just Co2 causation modelling as a predictor.
Optimistically, the dispute of what is science, and what is not, will be relaxed by the year end with a definition of when scientist crosses a political tipping point. I have no prediction of what points the political debate will attract.
As that courageous Kangaroo, Robert I Ellison alludes,
‘From the saintly and single-minded idealist to the fanatic is often but a step.’

LazyTeenager
March 2, 2012 5:01 pm

Good science admits its limits, and never claims to be “settled” even as it does lead to defensible practice and engineering where it seems to work — for now.
———–
This is called being fooled by a debating point and not paying attention to the facts.
The climate scientists did not say the climate science is settled and then put down tools and went home. They knew very well that there is still many areas that need to be checked and they continued to work on these things.
In fact many on WUWT relentlessly ridicule climate scientists for continuing to improve their understanding.
The science is settled in this context means the science is sufficiently well known to take action.
For example let’s consider the electric dynamo. It’s invention by Michael faraday led quite quickly to the action of building useful devices. No one said the science of dynamos is not settled so we refuse to build one. The understanding of dynamos was imperfect but the understanding of dynamos was sufficiently settled to take action.
Similarly the greenhouse effect is understood like a crude dynamo. It’s settled that a crude dynamo produces electricity and it’s also settled that the green house effect warms the atmosphere and affects the climate.
If you don’t like dynamos you can debate as much as you like about whether they really do produce electricity, whether they violate the phlogiston theory, whether they produce enough electricity to be worthwhile, whether they will destroy the coal economy, and insist for ever that you will adapt to the increasing depths of horse manure in the streets.
Dynamos still produce electricity. Period!

Rosco
March 2, 2012 5:02 pm

If the Sun can heat the Moon’s surface to ~120 degrees C during the lunar day then Earth’s atmosphere is actually cooling the surface during the day by reflection (albedo), extinction, convection and convective evaporation – both are subject to a similar solar radiation.
Experiments show the Sun can heat the Earth’s surface to much higher temperatures than the air temperature ever reaches in a few hours. And, funnily enough, experiments have shown that there is no solar radiation at night.
The fact that a vehicle interior heats up to ~60 + C in direct sunlight given the glass is filtering the infrared “backradiation” demonstrates the power of the Sun is paramount – the ridiculous divide by four “averaging” fallacy used to obtain deceptive results misquoted as having some relevance is easily debunked by many reproducible experiments.
Even if you believe “greenhouses” heat up by “trapping” infrared you are acknowledging the “backradiation” cannot be providing the initial energy and using Kiehl & Trenberth’s 168 W/sq m heating the ground surface the initial temperature should be about minus 40 degrees C ????
Oh, I forgot about the radiation trap – silly me.
And pigs can really fly but are too shy to acknowledge this fact.
I cannot understand why this is not perfectly obvious.

sky
March 2, 2012 5:15 pm

I’ve long maintained that one cannot have anything resembling “settled” science when any science that would convincingly explain real-world observations has not ever been demonstrated. In the case of climate, in particular, over-reliance upon radiative blackbody equilibrium theory has blinded many to the fact that a) Earth’s atmosphere is heated primarily by moist convection, rather than radiative absorption, b) atmospheric back-radiation is simply part of a nearly null-net radiative exchange with the surface, and c) the surface-atmosphere system cannot be treated adequately as a gray body in space What is most egregiously overlooked, however, is the top-heavy hydrostastic instabilty that ensues from radiative equilibrium in a gravity-bound atmosphere, as rigorously derived from first principles by Robert Emden nearly a century ago. In other words, It is not the relatively well-know effects of chemical composition upon radiative transfer that is the crux of the issue, but the rate of heat transfer by evaporation and convection.

LazyTeenager
March 2, 2012 5:17 pm

I’m not certain relativity is correct, but they are certain that catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is a true hypothesis with precise predictions and conclusions.
————
We know that Newtons laws are incorrect.
But the hippy who laid down in front of the crawling uranium freight train during a protest, expecting hundreds of tonnes of train to just stop was killed nevertheless.
The whole 50 million uncertainties means we know nothing argument is just a huge logical fallacy.

LazyTeenager
March 2, 2012 5:27 pm

Keep your hands off of my money while the theory is still unproven and not in terribly good agreement with reality!
———-
Ahhh! heavily italicized to indicate lots of passion. So that’s what it is really about.
We should not act because if we did it would cause pain in my personal hip pocket nerve.
And instead of understanding how climate works we just keep on creating one quibble after another to stall any action. This is really really bad physics.

LazyTeenager
March 2, 2012 5:35 pm

Sheer economics and the advance of physics and technology and engineering will make fossil-fuel burning electrical generators as obsolete as steam trains.
————-
Yep. But the timescales are wrong.
The whole article reminds of someone who had bought something and it’s been delivered, but they don’t have the money to pay.
So they come up with 50 million excuses why they can keep the article but don’t have to pay for it.
The item has the wrong colour, it’s got a chip on it, it wasn’t delivered on time, the delivery man looked at me funny, the payment got lost in the post, for ever and ever.
Sorry it’s not perfect but it’s settled, you still have to pay.

1DandyTroll
March 2, 2012 5:36 pm

Absent ignorance, enter reason and give voice to knowledge, that is the heart of academia is it not. So why does so few dare dislodge that bureuacratic hold of their balls to give voice to that knowledge of reason?
There seem to be too little networking going on in the place that literally invented networking, which probably is why a bunch of nincompoop activists has been able to assert such firm grip on acdemia’s balls.
But please don’t band together, the left-over greens’ll have a fit if their delusional nightmare actually came true. :p

March 2, 2012 5:46 pm

Lazy says:
“The science is settled in this context means the science is sufficiently well known to take action.”
O Really? The planet is not agreeing with you. Observations are not in agreement with AGW. Nature does not agree with you. Therefore the science is not sufficiently well known. In fact, AGW is an evidence-free conjecture [by ‘evidence’ I mean testable, empirical, measureable evidence, per the scientific method]. As Prof Feynman said, if it doesn’t agree with nature, or observation, it’s wrong.
Lazy continues: “We know that Newtons laws are incorrect.” Again: O Really? I do believe engineers use Newton’s Laws of Motion every day. They are not “incorrect”. Einstein just took the concept a step farther.

March 2, 2012 5:50 pm

I have just finished reading this very good article by Dr Brown and I cannot refute anything he writes. But, and there is always a “but”, – it is what he does not write that gets to me.
When it comes to the bits that are appertaining to “Climate science” aka CAGW, he does line up quite elegantly with nearly all “Skeptical Scientists” who say that CO2 must have “some warming effect” because it is a Greenhouse Gas (GHG).
If IR radiation exchange between the Earth’s surface and atmospheric CO2 happens and has the effect – as prescribed, I very much doubt that “Life on Earth as we know it” (or anywhere else in the universe) would be possible.
CO2 and the Earth’s surface are not the only 2 objects able to receive or emit IR light – nor do I see any reason why nature (even though the magazine bearing that name may do so) has made a special law for “CO2/ Surface Interaction”. – We all, you and I have the ability to absorb and emit IR radiation. Therefore we must also “Back-radiate” to each other.
Maxwell’s theory (1865) predicted the existence of electromagnetic waves which moved through space at the speed of light – and that light itself was indeed such a wave was later verified by Heinrich Hertz (1857 – 1894). – Ever since, it seems to me, “Climate Theories” have had very little relation to the Earth and its Atmosphere or the Earth System (ES) – starting with Arrhenius’ theory in 1896.
I am not denying the existence of IR radiation. However we cannot see radiation itself because it moves at the speed of li – – -. Heck, I don’t rightly know why we cannot see it. Anyway if you have a light bulb “burning” on a dark night you’ll have light and a bit of heat. If you turn the electric power supply off. The light vanishes so fast you don’t really get a clue as to where it has gone. But the heat does not move away at quite the same speed. As a matter of fact, it may take many minutes for the bulb to cool to the “ambient” temperature. That is because “dark heat” does not move at the speed of light, you can actually, sometimes see heat convection because it is an interaction between air pockets of different temperatures.
I have read a few explanations of as to how a thermopile works. None of the ones I have read make any sense, at least not to me as all of them seem to say the heat content of the object which is to be “remotely measured” travels from that object to the “measuring instrument” —Now then, – to me that’s magic.
Therefore – here is my explanation: The “measuring instrument” or Thermopile (it needs electric power) when turned on sends out an electromagnetic signal with a wavelength corresponding to its own temperature, all electromagnetic wavelengths are related to the emitting body’s temperature, therefore if the returning signal has a different wavelength the measuring instrument’s built in calculator works out what the object’s Temperature is. There is no magic.
The same principle is used for all thermopile apparatuses. – Predetermined colors for various wavelengths = paint by numbers. Still no magic but infrared pictures in “Technicolor” are possible.
The heat content of a man, say 1o feet away does not enter your camera if you take a picture of him in day-light. – Nor does his soul. – On such an occasion both visible and Infra-Red light must be radiated into your camera.

March 2, 2012 6:10 pm

Tim Folkerts says:
“* the proof of the effect of CO2 is in this data…”
Wrong conclusion. Everything has an effect on everything else. The basic questions are these: is the rise in CO2 a net benefit to the biosphere? Has the rise in CO2 caused any measurable, verifiable harm?
All available evidence gives an unqualified “Yes” to the question of CO2 being beneficial to the biosphere. More CO2 is better. The planet is greening as a direct result. And the rise in CO2 has caused absolutely no global “harm” of any kind. Thus, CO2 is harmless. QED
The alarmist crowd should be rejoicing in the fact that they were totally wrong in their alarming predictions. Now, we see that millions will not die due to the rise in CO2. In fact, millions will avoid starvation as a direct result of the continuing rise in CO2.
But does anyone on that side of the debate admit that they are glad they were wrong? I challenge you to name one person who has publicly stated that they are happy that they were wrong about their catastrophic climate disruption/runaway global warming predictions. Name one. If you can. I’ll bet you can’t.

March 2, 2012 6:26 pm

Rosco says on March 2, 2012 at 5:02 pm
“Experiments show the Sun can heat the Earth’s surface to much higher temperatures than the air temperature ever reaches in a few hours. And, funnily enough, experiments have shown that there is no solar radiation at night.”
=======
You are disappointing me now Rosco. – There is no empirical proof for the existence of any such experiment.
Every mathematician worth his or her salts, or corn know that the Earth receives 24 hour sunshine. – That’s the only way their unified formulas can work. – They all know that 235 W/m² enter and 235 W/m² leave the Earth System (ES) constantly.
That’s also how scientists know about AGW. – They can find no evidence to say that the energy they know has been created by CO2 ever leaves the ES.

JimF
March 2, 2012 6:28 pm

Gosh, it sounds just like geology. But there’s lots of room to wave ones’s arms. Now and again the arm waves come true.

JimF
March 2, 2012 6:31 pm

PS: Great article, Dr. Brown. Enjoyable read and I appreciate the honesty to say “we know this much and no more”.

JimF
March 2, 2012 6:38 pm

LazyTeenager says:
March 2, 2012 at 5:17 pm “,,,The whole 50 million uncertainties means we know nothing argument is just a huge logical fallacy….”
We know for certain that [SNIP: Now that was just a tad unkind. -REP] You see we do know a lot. It just isn’t favorable to you.

Mydogsgotnonose
March 2, 2012 6:44 pm

The alarmists base their judgement on computer models which predict 3-5 times as much warming as observed in reality, then offset it by assuming double real low level cloud optical depth and a variable aerosol cooling arranged on the basis of further incorrect optical physics exactly to offset net AGW calculated on the basis of incorrect IR physics and imaginary ‘back radiation’.
This is a scam, pure and simple, designed to fulfil the demands of rapacious politicians and businessmen for a way to con the public.

David A. Evans
March 2, 2012 6:57 pm

My biggest problem is not so much, “can we ascertain an average global temperature?” but more, “if we can, is it useful?”.
I posit that it isn’t even useful because temperature of the atmosphere is not proportional to energy. (If you have to ask why, you’ve not been paying attention.)
DaveE.

Gary Hladik
March 2, 2012 7:02 pm

LazyTeenager says (March 2, 2012 at 4:38 pm): “If you stood up at a podium and debated against a person who absolutely refused to believe the evidence, ignored every logical argument you made, spent years concocting highly ingenious but wrong counter arguments…”
Up to that point, Lazy perfectly described a typical CAGW alarmist.
Add “arrogant” and “a legend in his own mind”, and you have Peter Gleick. 🙂

Robert in Calgary
March 2, 2012 7:11 pm

“Up to that point, Lazy perfectly described a typical CAGW alarmist.”
Lazy does like to go on about himself…..

March 2, 2012 7:13 pm

Robert Brown says on March 2, 2012 at 2:14 pm
“Unfortunately, I know them all too well. I actually got a Christmas card from one this year, complete with a link to his ——-“
======
I cherry pick: “Christmas card from one this year” and think; “attention for detail by scientists is evident in all their writings.

KevinK
March 2, 2012 7:14 pm

Dr. Brown wrote;
“Sheer economics and the advance of physics and technology and engineering will make fossil-fuel burning electrical generators as obsolete as steam trains.”
While it is nice to note that you do in fact admit that engineers might just have little bit of an influence in the final outcome, this is NONSENSE……..
For example, you might want to note that there is only one column in the periodic table of elements where those materials that make “good” electrical batteries reside. That would be the column that contains; Lead, Nickel and Lithium. As SOON as you physicists populate that column with that as yet undiscovered element; “EXTRA LOW DENSITY LITHIUM”, aka “UNOBTAINIUM” we engineers will turn it into a battery that will make the Chevy Volt ™ look like a cheap toy.
Good Dr. Brown, you are missing the simple fact that ALL TECHNOLOGIES HAVE
FUNDAMENTAL LIMITS. Engineers are in fact quite skilled at finding said limits as are some physicists.
You might want to research the real reasons that steam trains are widely considered as obsolete; the internal combustion engine is more efficient (WRT fossil fuel usage) and requires less maintenance.
I do not see a big swing towards solar powered trains in either your lifetime or mine, few people want to wait until the sun shines to get where they want to be.
To quote you again;
“fossil-fuel burning electrical generators as obsolete as steam trains”
You might note that this happened back it the mid 1940’s when the nuclear reactor was invented/discovered.
And then everybody got their underwear in a bunch and we RAN AWAY FROM THAT SOLUTION.
Cheers, Kevin.

JimF
March 2, 2012 7:16 pm

@REP: “…[SNIP: Now that was just a tad unkind. -REP]….”
That wasn’t an accident. 😉 I meant to be unkind, but I respect your better judgement.
[REPLY: Thank you for your understanding. -REP]

Zeke
March 2, 2012 7:24 pm

“Well, it is a bit of a non-sequitor, since I really wasn’t signing on to be the defender of every non-mainstream scientist (quack or not) in the Universe by pointing out some of the flaws in the CAGW scientific scenario, but I’d have to come back at you with — ” Dr. RG Brown
You are a busy man. And I am busy as well. So my post described a simple experiment you could perform in your physics department to test your intellectual freedom which you say you have and which is so abysmally lacking in climate science. I suggested (again as an experiment) you present clear and simple data and observations which falsify the Big Bang, or which do not support GR – but especially the work of Halton Arp. This would make a truer test of any “willingness to chuck the whole damn thing, wrong from top to bottom.” The press releases about a uber relativistic neutrino does not satisfy the question and a more effective and genuine experiment of real scientific freedom would be an attempt on your part to acknowledge the decades of observations that show the universe is not expanding, but high redshift quasars are physicallly associated with, and sometimes in front of, low redshifted galaxies.

March 2, 2012 7:30 pm

Combine Dr. Brown’s thesis We should believe the most what we can doubt the least and the later discussion of the size and complexity of the zoo of elementary particles.
Next visit a TED video of paleontologist Jack Horner’s “Shape-Shifting Dinosaurs.” A summary is at abovetopsecret.com. Dr. Horner’s 15-minute video shows the audience 12 Primary North Am Dinosaurs at the End of the Cretaceous. The pregnant question was, “Where are the children?” How you tell the growth age of an animal is to cut open the bone and examine the ‘sponginess’ of the bone; spongy bone is young, solid bone is old. The trouble is it is hard to get big museums to let you cut open their fossils. “I have a small museum. I don’t mind cutting them open.” Some of the Dinosaurs were always of a young type, some always old. “When you want to name a new dinosaur, you look at their differences. When you want to understand them, you look at their similarities.” By combining similarities with the bone age, Horner concluded that Dracorex, Stygimoloch, and Pachycephalosaurus were the same species in young, juvenile, and adult form respectively. He sequenced two other lines. Now the 12 Primary Types have been reduced to 7.
Is complexity in the zoo of elementary particles a symptom of a desire to name things that are different? Is the complexity real or virtual? It’s more of a rhetorical question; food for thought.

Jeff Alberts
March 2, 2012 7:34 pm

Dr. Brown mentions “global temperature” several times. I’d like to know what he thinks of this.

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