This is novel. A woman who is upset with Honda over lack of promised gas mileage on her HondaCivic Hybrid. It seems as the battery aged, the mileage went from the EPA sanctioned 51mpg highway sticker value to about 30. Honda ignored her complaint, and now she has a real chance of winning a landmark case in small claims court and Honda is taking a PR hit as the issue goes viral. A video report follows below.
Civic Hybrid owner sues Honda in small-claims court for poor gas mileage
By Linda Deutsch, Associated Press
TORRANCE — A woman who expected her Civic Hybrid to be her dream car wants Honda to pay for not delivering the 50 mpg it promised.
But rather than joining other owners in a class-action lawsuit, Heather Peters is going solo against the automaker in small-claims court, an unusual move that could offer a bigger payout. And if successful, it could open the door to a flood of similar lawsuits.
…
Peters, a former lawyer, says that as her vehicle’s battery deteriorated, it got only 30 mpg.
When Honda ignored her complaints, she filed legal papers seeking reimbursement for her trouble and the extra money she spent on gas. The suit could cost the company up to $10,000.
If other Civic owners follow her lead, she estimates Honda could be forced to pay as much as $2 billion in damages. No high-priced lawyers are involved, and the process is streamlined.
“I would not be surprised if she won,” said Richard Cupp Jr., who teaches product-liability law at Pepperdine University. “The judge will have a lot of discretion, and the evidentiary standards are relaxed in small-claims court.”
…
Peters opted out of a series of class-action lawsuits filed on behalf of Honda hybrid owners when she saw a proposed settlement would give plaintiffs no more than $200 cash and a rebate of $500 or $1,000 to purchase a new Honda.
The settlement would give trial lawyers $8.5 million, Peters said.
“I was shocked,” she said. “I wrote to Honda and said I would take $7,500, which was then the limit on small-claims in California. It is going up to $10,000 in 2012.”
…
She said she also offered to trade her hybrid for a comparable car with a manual transmission, the only thing she trusted at that point.
“I wrote the letter and I said, ‘If you don’t respond, I will file a suit in small-claims court.’ I gave them my phone number,” she said. “They never called.”
Here’s the video new report from AP:
stumpy says:
January 5, 2012 at 11:40 am
“So as my petrol engine slowly looses performance over the years and starts to use more fuel I can sue the manufacturer for producing something that doesnt work perfectly forever? Sweet! Lets all go sue car manufacturers for something that would obviously happen”
Stumpy,
My small1991 Chev S10 truck with a 2.8l engine gets the same mileage now, with 240,000 miles on it, as it did when ‘new’. I never ‘babied it’ and I get 18 mpg city and 23 mpg highway. It received only the standard maintenance items of regular oil changes, air filters, and an occasional tune up (plugs, rotor, and rotor cap). It also required a new battery every 5 years! My folks little 1978 Dodge Omni got 38 mpg highway right up until we sold it, with 185,000 miles and a leaking head gasket. A quick survey of my siblings and friends provided very similar experiences and data.
As a perhaps interesting sidebar, a recent rental of a 2011 Chev Impala with a 3.5l V6 yielded an average mileage of 31.6 mpg over 2 full tanks of gasoline in mixed highway and city driving. The 17 gallon (US) fuel tank provided a real range of more than 500 miles. With 215 hp available, I had no qualms about passing at will.
The assertions made by you, mizimi, and similar do not reflect real world experience for gasoline powered vehicles, either modern or ‘old’.
HankH tells us that as well as a hybrid he also own a Land Rover. He gives some stats over a 5 year period.
Land Rover:
Two brake jobs: ~$2,000
Replace faulty CDL: ~$4,000
Repair oil leak: ~$1,200.00
Regular oil changes: ~$900.00
Annual smog check: ~$30.00
Annual registration: ~$500.00
—————–
Total: ~$8,630
I’m not sure what that is supposed to show except ‘That’s a landrover for ya!’ and ‘Ya’d have to pay me….’
Kohl P
Honda has a history on gas mileage issues. In 2007 Honda settled a class-action type lawsuit over odometer readings from bad odometers installed in new cars and suv’s which proved to be too high, thus overstating gas mileage. At that time, Honda gave owners an increased warrantee on mileage to reflect bad odometers installed in their cars. I received one of these increased mileage warrantees for a Pilot which never got over 18 mpg, even though the EPA sticker mileage ranged from 18 to 25 mpg. Pathetic sales misrepresentation by Honda salesman who stated that the 25 mpg rating was actually achievable. Later I found out that wasn’t true. The actual tested mileage (by the dealer) never exceeded 18 mpg.
Basically small-claims tribunals do what other courts should be doing but don’t- focus on the all facts not the legal nonsense.
Yes, that is a Land Rover for ya – one of the best utility vehicles I’ve ever owned. I own it because I do research in locations where you wouldn’t dare take a car or most SUV’s for that matter. I purchased a new GMC K2500 (4×4) prior to the Land Rover. It broke down often and it was far more expensive to maintain out of warranty than the Land Rover. I purchased a new Chevy Lumina before the Camry. The Lumina also cost far more in repairs out of warranty than the Land Rover (perhaps it would have been a better choice to make my point).
So you’re missing the point. Every vehicle has a back end cost of ownership and that’s what needs to be considered when purchasing or criticizing a vehicle. The Camry hybrid has one of the highest Consumer Reports rating of 93. After owning one for five years I’ve found the back end cost of ownership to be exceptional as contrasted to my other conventional vehicle. The great around-town gas mileage for a full sized family car is icing on the cake.
I looked at the Honda Civic hybrid too and steered way clear of it. The Civic hybrid has one of the lowest Consumer Reports rating at 62 (60 being the lowest). I don’t doubt people are unhappy with the vehicle for many reasons, possibly poor hybrid technology being one of them. But to take a story on a hybrid that is obviously a lemon and make the case that all hybrids have failed batteries and are a waste of money doesn’t follow in my case.
Acckkii,
Sorry, but manufacturing margins on hybrid cars are slim to none, auto companies build them for PR purposes to enhance their green cache, and not as a hedge against oil supplies. But do what ever trips your trigger, just let the market decide. And since there is growing evidence that oil may actually not have plant origins, the Chevy Volt is more of a fossil fuel car than my F350 diesel, if it is plugged into a coal fired grid.
Mike Wryley says:
January 6, 2012 at 9:04 pm
“Acckkii,
Sorry, but manufacturing margins on hybrid cars are slim to none, auto companies build them for PR purposes to enhance their green cache, and not as a hedge against oil supplies. But do what ever trips your trigger, just let the market decide. And since there is growing evidence that oil may actually not have plant origins, the Chevy Volt is more of a fossil fuel car than my F350 diesel, if it is plugged into a coal fired grid.”
Mike,
I am quite positive about “LET the MARKET DECIDE” as you said. We would be sorry for those manufacturers who cannot sell their products and fail, because the markets do not like their products. But we cannot say to them “do not make anything because we possibly would not like it”. You remember Toyota crisis about one of its models, it was not Hybrid, and the others not necessary to remind you, and even space shuttle. This is on their own . When a market doesn’t absorb a thing, so why should we be sorry for that? Market is market, like the sun, like the moon.
And about purposes; Honda was thinking GREEN on hybrid as it is understood, I was thinking about someone can dare and steps forward and try a substitute for oil, you were thinking about whatever XYZ, and …, our purposes would let us coming together but with different purposes. You say Honda this/that, I liked it for my short travels, you may like it for just going to work because there on your way to your office are always cheaper fuel stations …or…, and …. Here speaking about people to be united collectively on something would only happen when as a MARKET none of us have no reason to go on and support an idea, still with different purposes.
IPhone and for example Toshiba, Toshiba is not bad, but IPHone finally becomes a giant. Same as in a rally, at the START line, the rally begins from the time (0), the winner is the one when in a dynamic environment and in practice can touch the end, faster.
So let the market decide, about what? first we should have something in hand to be able to compare. In the market of energy, if we have only OIL and oil and OiL and oIL, is this a market?
If you like it you buy it, in continuation, should we reach to this point that everybody should buy only Folks Wagon BEETLE ONLY. How is that?
Mike Wryley,
Toyota does make profits on their hybrids. Toyota has expanded their line of hybrids, maybe because Toyota is arguably the leader in this technology with a proven track record and consumers like their products. I would suggest you do a bit more research before coming to conclusions on why people buy them. In my wife’s case, she has been driving for the USPS for 15 years so we have a bit of experience knowing what has worked or not. For the Prius the math works on fuel/maintenance savings. Brakes, tires, fuel…..for her application it is a winner hands down.
We did not purchase the ‘used’ Prius to save the planet, just our bank account. There are very few vehicles that are mail carrier friendly these days, and although her quad cab Dakota has been very reliable, it also is very expensive to use. Mileage compensation does not even cover the cost of fuel these days.
Because the Prius regenerates the battery on deceleration, this also saves on brakes and tires. It also turns off the engine during the period decelerating to and at the mail box. This saves on engine wear and oil life as well.
There is no diesel or gas engine vehicle that could ever come close to 40 mpg stopping/accelerating 700 times a day, not to mention brakes and tires lasting as long. If an electric car comes along that can handle the rigors of rural mail delivery, my current prejudices against them would disappear like I had with the Prius.
BTW, my condolences on owning a Ford diesel 🙂
Since brake usage is the main “wastage”, the best way to max out MPG is too absolutely minimize the use of the brakes. How to go about doing that is the problem — but I try. Drafting behind 18-wheelers (or any car) helps too — but not too close.
A view from Europe… I drive a 2 litre 170bhp Skoda Diesel TDI (sort-of a VW Passat derivative).
I have had it for 17,000 miles so far, and I average 45mpg (UK gallons) to date. That covers european autoroute driving (90-100mph) down to in-town speeds.
Diesel isn’t the dirty beast of yesteryear, and I wouldn’t go back to petrol (gas) now, and won’t go hybrid until they *really* make sense!
Euro,
Good idea, you don’t have any reason to buy anything you don’t like it.
That is a way to say no to bad ideas.
Honda should be worry about your VOTE on its cars, not you.
You have better options why not.
This is the market Euro!
Good luck.
Dr. Dave says:
Yeah, maybe that’s why, according to Consumer Reports, we Prius owners had the highest level of
satisfaction (I believe as measured by the question: “Would you buy this car again?”) of any car, for at least a few years running, I think.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/cr_consumer_satisfaction.html
– Joel (very satisfied owner of a 2004 Prius)
…And, of course, for a long time, the biggest problem with the Prius was that Toyota couldn’t make them fast enough. I put down a deposit on mine just a few days after they were first available to test drive and there was already a waitlist of something like 15 people at the dealership, which meant about a 6 month wait.
Oh, and here is the full price negotiation on my Prius (which I bought from a car salesman who was a friend):
Joel: Jeff, since your a friend, you can get me a good deal on this, right?
Jeff: Joel, when there’s a 6-month waiting list on a car, the only negotiation from the list price is up.
Joel: List price sounds great!
DR and ACCKKII,
Easy there big shooters, you’re taking matters too personally, read my post more carefully. I stand by my statement on margins on hybrids.
And DR, 10-4 on the F 350, inferior in nearly very way to models 15 years more senior, thanks mostly to the EPA, but also Ford. Pulling a heavy machinery trailer with a little headwind results in a mileage only slightly better than an 80,0000 pound semi truck.
I am building a hybrid out of a 1973 Chevy Blazer. The engine will be a 383 ci Stroker that puts our 400 HP. I hope to get more than 10 MPG. This vehicle qualifies as a hybrid because it burns both gasoline and rubber. I wonder if I can get a tax credit.
What I would like to read is the text that Honda put out about the fuel consumption of it’s hybrid cars! I cannot believe that a company like Honda would not quote a varying mileage rate. Partially charging and discharging batteries leads to shorter battery life. As others have said in this post, everyone these days has experience of battery powered equipment. Hybrid cars are a joke because of the replacement battery costs and the hidden cost of the battery and technology when purchasing the new vehicle. It also costs fuel to charge the very heavy battery and to drive around with it. What is the trade in value of a 5 year old hybrid that needs a new battery? Quantify these costs on the miles per gallon over the life of the car and what you get is practically zero.
Can we all say together: “Kinetic energy reclamation vehicle” (or equally applicable as well: “potential energy reclamation vehicle”) ?
I’ve not seen that (those) word(s) used once throughout this thread; have any physicists posted to this thread? Has ‘kinetic energy’ (or potential energy, the energy one possesses at the top of a hill) as a term become deprecated (or something) in lieu of more fashionable terms and verbiage (glorious marketing prose perhaps)?
Get a grip ppl; one need only spend a day driving around *Vancouver and vicinity (e.g. Burnaby) to gain an appreciation for kinetic (and potential) energy recovery and what that means for ‘mileage’ (or ‘kilometer-age’ ) and saving on brake wear.
* There are other cites one can use to demonstrate this principle, but Vancouver is the only city I have had actual driving experience in with as many big hills as one encounters!
Joel, what does that mean (in bold above, the ‘your a friend’ part)? TIA.
.
Can I say it: “Confirmation bias”, or maybe more appropriately, conforming or ‘conformity bias’ as in “conformation bias”. Kinda like “grading your own homework” or “endorsing your own product” with knowing winks and nods all around.
Not that there is anything wrong with that in a free market environment …
.
“who needs a vehicle capable of 120 mph in traffic anyway”
That can be a very handy speed when passing a long truck on a two lane road..
Just for the record, but Bloomberg carried an article about hybrids.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-10/hybrids-in-u-s-losing-appeal-as-vehicles-run-on-less-gas-cars.html