This is novel. A woman who is upset with Honda over lack of promised gas mileage on her HondaCivic Hybrid. It seems as the battery aged, the mileage went from the EPA sanctioned 51mpg highway sticker value to about 30. Honda ignored her complaint, and now she has a real chance of winning a landmark case in small claims court and Honda is taking a PR hit as the issue goes viral. A video report follows below.
Civic Hybrid owner sues Honda in small-claims court for poor gas mileage
By Linda Deutsch, Associated Press
TORRANCE — A woman who expected her Civic Hybrid to be her dream car wants Honda to pay for not delivering the 50 mpg it promised.
But rather than joining other owners in a class-action lawsuit, Heather Peters is going solo against the automaker in small-claims court, an unusual move that could offer a bigger payout. And if successful, it could open the door to a flood of similar lawsuits.
…
Peters, a former lawyer, says that as her vehicle’s battery deteriorated, it got only 30 mpg.
When Honda ignored her complaints, she filed legal papers seeking reimbursement for her trouble and the extra money she spent on gas. The suit could cost the company up to $10,000.
If other Civic owners follow her lead, she estimates Honda could be forced to pay as much as $2 billion in damages. No high-priced lawyers are involved, and the process is streamlined.
“I would not be surprised if she won,” said Richard Cupp Jr., who teaches product-liability law at Pepperdine University. “The judge will have a lot of discretion, and the evidentiary standards are relaxed in small-claims court.”
…
Peters opted out of a series of class-action lawsuits filed on behalf of Honda hybrid owners when she saw a proposed settlement would give plaintiffs no more than $200 cash and a rebate of $500 or $1,000 to purchase a new Honda.
The settlement would give trial lawyers $8.5 million, Peters said.
“I was shocked,” she said. “I wrote to Honda and said I would take $7,500, which was then the limit on small-claims in California. It is going up to $10,000 in 2012.”
…
She said she also offered to trade her hybrid for a comparable car with a manual transmission, the only thing she trusted at that point.
“I wrote the letter and I said, ‘If you don’t respond, I will file a suit in small-claims court.’ I gave them my phone number,” she said. “They never called.”
Here’s the video new report from AP:
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@Goodcheer,
You are absolutely correct and I believe that fact (disclaimer for the MPG estimate) is spelled out on the sticker that is affixed to any new vehicle.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml
This is what the EPA says.
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Aboutratings.do#aboutfueleconomy
Peters, a former lawyer, says that as her vehicle’s battery deteriorated, it got only 30 mpg.
I could (rarely) get that w/a 1986 V8 Mustang GT (manual trans). Like some have said, I not impressed by the 25 yr “progression”.
The size of the deterioration. Down to 30, a 40% decline, does not happen in most automobiles as they age, and certainly not after 5 years.
If the vehicle is getting 30 mpg now the batteries are down a lot more than 40%, probably closer to 80-90%
Maybe she left the emergency brake on.
As is everything in life you get what you pay for, and yes there is no free lunch for the working person. I have an 87 300D turbo diesel MBZ it still gives 31 MPG on the freeway it has 314000 miles on it. I paid what I thought was a ridiculous price for it when I bought it. If I look at the years of service and the cost of overall repairs, in the long run it has been cheaper than having to buy two or three cheaper cars. It has also been very safe. I have been in 2 wrecks. In one I was rear ended by a Honda with a Vtech engine. I could tell it was a Vtech because the valve cover with the label VTECH was laying in the freeway. The damage was $800 to my car. The second time I hit a deer doing about 50. The deer blew up and took the radiator, left fender, water pump, air cond radiator etc. The hood folded where it was pre programmed to fold and shielded me from the debris. If I had hit the deer with a less robust car I would not be posting here.
My beloved ’63 Renault R8, bought for $100 in 1973, got 40 MPG without trying. It was 10 years old at the time, not in the best of shape, and I was too broke to maintain the dear critter properly. It really deserved a better owner, but it still loyally provided comfort, performance and economy.
Much better bargain than a hybrid, even if I’d bought it new.
DR a lady in Montana I believe, got one million miles on her Corolla delivering mail. Only normal maintenance. Toyota took it and gave her a new one. Will replacing your battery be called normal maintenance? That battery replacement cost will eat into your fuel savings and the Corolla most likely was not purchased with a subsidy.
I am not against the Prius or Volt type vehicles, just the unrealistic hype.
My understanding of the UK situation is that when the mileage test is done they start with a fully charged battery in a hybrid vehicle then only measure the amount of gas/petrol used. This process means that the energy stored in the battery is effectively free and so the fuel consumption will look that much better.
Maybe she doesn’t know that you are not supposed to put the gas in the battery; that wrecks the chemistry.
She should trade it in for a Fiser Karma; they only guarantee 50 miles total, and you get a much bigger auxilliary gas engine with it.
My 1972 Olds Cutlass gets about 14 mpg.
And I have no intention of getting rid of it.
Henry chance says:
January 5, 2012 at 10:58 am
“It just hit me. The presenting problem here is not Honda. It is EPA law that forces the sticker to disclose the MPG and the rating came from THE EPA. If the car only does 30, then EPA should give it a 30 MPG rating.”
Perfect opportunity for one to sue the EPA in which case the government will pay your attorney to litigate against them. The greenies do it all the time.
Take a look at this time line for inkerhol, ssssgreat stuff, hic!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_alcohol_fuel
Anyone remember Cleveland Discol?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=MZG&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&q=CLEVELAND+DISCOL&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=0l0l0l11524l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1143&bih=689&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=EBcGT5bkHNTY8gOemf3ZAg
The word is “Anyone” not “Antone”.
thorne says:
January 5, 2012 at 12:42 pm…….. mpg us gallon vs imperial gallon is noted below-
Conversions per http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Reference/conversions.htmVolume
1 Imperial Gallon = 4.5461 liters (l)
1 liter (l) = 0.2200 Imperial Gallons
1 US Gallon = 3.7854 liters (l)
1 liter (l) = 0.2642 US gallons
1 Imperial Gallon = 1.2009 US Gallons
1 US Gallon = 0.8327 Imperial Gallons
1 liter = 61 Cubic Inches (ci) [approximate
thorne says: Can someone tell me what that is in MPG per US gallon.
The conversion is approx 4.54 litres per imperial gallon versus approx. 4 litres per US gallon – why we’re all not using SI units by now boggles the mind but, that aside the conversion is 62.8 miles per imperial gallon divided by 4.54 litres per imperial gallon = ~13.8 miles per litre – multiplied by 4 litres per US gallon = 55.33 miles per US gallon.
Nissan is marketing the “Leaf” a total electric car. It is a well established fact that all batteries suffer “exhaustion” – one could imagine that intensive use such as commuting will enhance the exhaustion effect and reduce the life expectancy.
What has gone unsaid with all these vehicles is the replacement costs for batteries is likely to be excessive compared to total cost of the vehicle – I’ve seen estimates ranging up to 75% of the car’s cost. I’ve also seen estimates that this could occur in as little as 3 years.
75% of new car cost repair in an insurance claim will surely result in write off by the insurance company at significantly reduced value estimates for the claimant. Say goodbye to a second hand car market if these estimates prove true – who is going to buy a second hand car where the cost of replacing the batteries pushes the total investment past the new price ?
I do not see electric vehicles making significant inroads unless we all accept reduced “performance” – which is probably what we should consider for uses such as commuting anyway – who needs a vehicle capable of 120 mph in traffic anyway ?
Of course reducing CO2 emissions from vehicles by switching to gas (not gasoline) powered vehicles is a simple practical step that I would have thought greens would completely endorse – technology that is available now cheaply with immediate benefits as per their paranoia.
Similarly Europe could have achieved reductions by switching to gas fired electricity instead of achieving the opposite by investing in renewables according to recent studies.
Billions spent, emissions up and still facing the dilemma of replacing older power stations.
Let me remind those from the UK that a US gallon is significantly smaller than a “real” gallon.
So be careful in comparing your mpg in the UK with that in the US.
In summary, legislation requiring milage standards and lessened co2 emissions are going to be complete fraud from start to finish; they will rest on inflated or deflated numbers reporting, while
the companies and the government do not consider themselves responsible for the actual milage of the car.
And yet this is the standard they want to impose on gasoline powered vehicles and light trucks which we all need and use in our daily business?
Maximum fuel efficiency= maximum CO2 Output. Now what ‘Pollution’ are they trying to prevent?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/01/autos/honda_civic_hybrid_battery_problems/index.htm
Inferior batter choice compared to the Prius?
Somewhere along the line, the battery in this woman’s car has been horribly abused.
This may be due to the owner herself or a fault in either the design of the car or the actual car itself.
Why..
Rechargeable batteries that we are most likely to come across (Lead/Acid, NiCad or Lithium) are typically good for 1000 (plus or minus 500) charge/discharge cycles. That’s a fact of life, period.
What counts is how deep and prolonged those cycles are – a cycle where 80% of the charge remains in the battery doesn’t actually count as a cycle. Also,and as many motorists here will know, if you flatten a lead acid battery and don’t immediately recharge, you’ve killed it. Dead. Most especially so with so-called ‘heavy duty’ batteries.
There again, motorists here and elsewhere will recount stories of their batteries lasting 10 years+ and being used daily. Yes, because if your engine is a ‘good starter’, less than 20% of the battery is used to start it and it is immediately recharged. The battery doesn’t tally that up in its ‘cycle count’
That is the secret to good battery life, the same applies to all rechargeables (apart from NiCads- they prefer to be flat all the time) Something has gone badly wrong here with Honda’s car, it should have been designed to protect the battery better than it obviously has done.
Andrew32 says “The models say we should be seeing the mileage and it’s a travesty that we’re not.
🙂
”
No no clearly she is a denier because she is citing real world numbers as if they some how are more valid than computer models. Doesn’t she realize that computer models are the only acceptable way to view the world?
I used to manage 25-30 mpg out of a 2.5 ltr straight six BMW Z4. UK mpg.
I’m currently getting 55-60 on motor way runs from a straight Audi diesel.
30 USMPG is shocking. But the I still don’t see why she is complaining considering the cheap price of gas over there £1.30 a ltr at the moment in th UK.
If I remember correctly, there were problems with the battery as it aged; and it was a NiMH battery. NiMH batteries, frequently used in hybrid cars, are made only by one manufacturer, in S Korea I think; and he has a certain amount of effort to prepare for production for the batch of your batteries so as a client you can practically only order batches of 100,000 or so, otherwise the production is very uneconomical. The battery packs are not standardized. Every client needs different ones. NiMH is a very nice and cheap technology but due to patents, it is only one manufacturer who makes them. For some reason they were never interested in giving out licenses for other manufacturers – maybe they want to enforce artificial scarcity to be able to demand higher prices. Li-Ion would not have taken off the way it did without this situation.
Well that’s why Honda, when seeing the mileage in their hybrids go down, they gave the cars that appeared in garages all over the world with complaints from their drivers, a secret software upgrade that disabled the battery, turning a hybrid into an ordinary ICE engine. They simply had no spare NiMH battery packs for all the cars that turned up.
Now you have a simple ICE car, only heavier. Oh and you paid more for it.
My ’69 Corvette got 13 city, 18 highway. Am I on the the wrong thread?
Honda has a real serious issue on their hands.
The class action lawsuit was brought because their batteries dramatically under perform after a short period of time. What Honda did, and she complained about, is that they went in and reprogrammed her car and other Civic hybrids so the cars would depend less on the battery. This reprogramming was meant to save Honda warranty costs because more batteries would survive past the warranty period.
The result of the reprogramming was that her gas mileage dramatically went down.
I think she has a real claim.