On Foster and Rahmstorf 2011 – Global temperature evolution 1979–2010
Guest post by Bob Tisdale
Note (May 23, 2013): Update 3 appeared in the cross post at my blog but not here at WUWT. I’ve added it here.
UPDATE 3 (January 14, 2012): I displayed my very limited understanding of statistics in this post. This was pointed out to me a great number times by many different people in numerous comments received in the WattsUpWithThat cross post.The errors in that initial portion of the post were so many and so great that they detracted from the bulk of the post, which was about the El Niño-Southern Oscillation. Please disregard this post and the WUWT cross post, and any other cross posts that may exist.
I have reissued the ENSO-related portion of the post herewith a number of additions. If Anthony Watts cross posts the new version at WattsUpWithThat, I’ll provide a link here.
Originally, when I wrote the post about Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), I had not included my error-filled discussion about their regression analysis. That was a last minute addition. Lesson learned.
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UPDATE 2 (January 5, 2012): PLEASE READ. Three things: First, I did not understand that a “linear time trend” used by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) is different than a “linear trend”. My confusion also led to confusion for many bloggers who read my post and who commented on the WattsUpWithThat cross post. My apologies. For those interested, the “linear time trend” is discussed under the heading of “Data as trend plus noise” on the Wikipedia Trend Estimationwebpage.
Second, in addition to MEI, AOD, and TSI as independent variables, I mistakenly used the values of the linear trend, which EXCEL calculated with its LINEST function from the monthly GISS data, as the fourth independent variable. And this added to the confusion of those who were interpreting the equations. In retrospect, I should not have included the equations. I should have included a table that listed the coefficients instead.
Third, in my haste to publish this post, I failed to explain the steps I used to process the data, and it may have been confusing to those who were looking at equations and graphs. I performed the regression analyses with the “raw” monthly data; then using the resulting coefficients, I made the adjustments to the monthly data. (I had prepared a graph using monthly data, similar to F&R’s Figure 4, with 1979-2010 as base years. But I felt my version was an unintelligible spaghetti graph with little value, so I didn’t include it.) I then converted the adjusted data to annual data; and last, changed the base years to 1979-2010.
The bottom line: Although I mistook a linear trend for a linear time trend, and although I did not include all of the additional data refinements used by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), it’s difficult to see any difference between my Figure 7 and their Figure 5. There were other bloggers commenting on the thread of the WUWT cross post who got similar results using different methods. Does this mean the results of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) are robust as some comments on the WUWT tread claimed? No. ENSO is a process, not an index, and it can’t be account for using linear regression analysis. This was illustrated clearly and discussed in detail under the heading of ENSO IS NOT AN EXOGENOUS FACTOR.
UPDATE 1 (January 3, 2012): Under the heading of ENSO IS NOT AN EXOGENOUS FACTOR, I changed the wording of a sentence, crossing out “create” and replacing it with “recharge”.—Thanks, Steve Allen.
OVERVIEW
This post examines a curious aspect of the multiple linear regression analysis performed by Foster and Rahmstorf in their 2011 paper “Global Temperature Evolution 1979–2010”. I find it very odd that a factor upon which the paper appears to rest was not presented in detail in it. Please understand right from the start, for this portion of the post, I am not implying that there is something wrong with this specific aspect of the paper; but I’m also not agreeing with it. I’m presenting it for discussion.
The second part of this post is a discussion of one of the exogenous factors that Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) has attempted to remove. The problem: it is not an exogenous factor. And there is a third discussion about a dataset that’s present in the spreadsheet provided by the lead author Grant Foster (aka Tamino) but, curiously, not mentioned in the paper.
Not surprisingly, Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) made the rounds at the blogs of the proponents of anthropogenic global warming. Joe Romm praised it with the post Sorry, Deniers, Study of “True Global Warming Signal” Finds “Remarkably Steady” Rate of Manmade Warming Since 1979. SkepticalScience covered the paper in their post Foster and Rahmstorf Measure the Global Warming Signal. And RealClimate gave it an honorable mention by including it as one of the topics in its Global Temperature News post.
INTRODUCTION
Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) attempted to remove from 5 global temperature datasets the linear effects of 3 factors that are known to cause variations in global temperature.
They covered the period of 1979 to 2010. The obvious intent of the paper is to show that anthropogenic global warming continues unabated in all of those datasets. The independent variables listed in the abstract of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) are El Niño-Southern Oscillation, volcanic aerosols, and solar variations. Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) appears to be a much clarified version of Tamino’s (Grant Foster’s) January 20, 2011 post How Fast is Earth Warming? After publication of the paper, Tamino discussed it in his post The Real Global Warming Signal and was kind enough to provide the source data and code in his post Data and Code for Foster & Rahmstorf 2011. The data Tamino provided is available here. It is a .zip file that Tamino has renamed a .xls file, as he explains, “in order to fool the wordpress software into believing that it’s an Excel file.” You will need to “Right Click and Save As” and then change the file name back to a .zip file in order to open it.
As noted above, in the abstract, Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) list the exogenous factors that are used as independent variables in the multiple regression analysis as “El Niño/southern oscillation, volcanic aerosols and solar variability.” Curiously, three paragraphs later, when they list the factors included in the multiple regression analysis again, Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) have added a fourth variable: linear trend. The last sentence of the third paragraph under the heading of “Introduction” reads:
“The influence of exogenous factors will be approximated by multiple regression of temperature against ENSO, volcanic influence, total solar irradiance (TSI) and a linear time trend to approximate the global warming that has occurred during the 32 years subject to analysis.”
But one of the bases for the paper is to illustrate how similar the trends are after the adjustments for ENSO, Total Solar Irradiance, and Volcanic Aerosols have been made, so including the linear trends of those datasets in the regression analysis seems odd. As a result, I went in search of another reason why Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) would have needed to include the linear trend in their regression analyses. As I note in the following, I’m using commercially available add-on software for EXCEL to perform the multiple regression analyses. Since I have no other means to verify the results, other than reproducing the results of one of their graphs, I’ll request that you confirm the following results if you have that capability.
WHY DID FOSTER & RAHMSTORF NEED TO INCLUDE A LINEAR TREND IN THE MULTIPLE REGRESSION ANALYSIS?
The only reason that I can see that Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) needed to include the trend in the multiple regression analysis is, the adjustment factor for the solar data is the wrong sign when the multiple regression analysis uses only ENSO, Solar, and Volcanic Aerosol data as independent variables. Let me explain in more detail. But again, please understand, for this portion of the post, I am not implying that there is something wrong with this specific aspect of the paper; and again, I’m also not agreeing with it. I found this interesting.
With the data provided by Tamino, I used Analyse-It for EXCEL software to perform a multiple regression analysis. (For those with EXCEL who have no means to perform a multiple linear regression analysis and want to verify my results, Analyse-It is available free on a 30-day trial basis.) My initial analysis included Tamino’s favorite global Surface Temperature dataset GISS as the dependent variable and the Multivariate ENSO Index (MEI), the Total Solar Irradiance (PMOD), and the Volcanic Aerosol Optical Depth data (AOD) as the independent variables. I lagged the MEI data by four months, the PMOD data by one month, and the AOD data by seven months, in agreement with Table 1 of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), which is also Table 1 in this post. And in this analysis, I did not include the GISTEMP linear trend as an independent variable.
Table 1
The multiple regression analysis using only the ENSO (MEI), Solar (PMOD), and Volcanic Aerosol (AOD) data resulted in Equation 1:
EQUATION 1:
GISS = 123.6 + 0.06769MEI(4m lag) – 0.09025TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 3.837AOD (7m lag)
I highlighted the solar variable scaling factor in boldface to emphasize the fact that the sign is negative. It would need to be positive to reproduce the results of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011). The signs of the ENSO and volcanic aerosol factors are what one would expect, Figure 1. It’s only the sign of the solar coefficient that is the opposite of what Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) present, Figure 2 (which is their Figure 7).
Figure 1
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Figure 2
And that makes a monumental difference to the outcome of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011). If we adjust the GISS surface temperature data with the factors presented in Equation 1, then the rise is not continuous. Refer to Figure 3. The peak year for the adjusted GISS-based global Surface Temperature data is 2002.
Figure 3
To confirm the results of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), I added the 0.167 deg C/Decade linear trend of the GISS global surface temperature anomaly data to the independent variables. The lags of the ENSO (MEI), Solar (PMOD), and Volcanic Aerosol (AOD) data remained the same as above.
The multiple regression analysis using the ENSO (MEI), Solar (PMOD), and Volcanic Aerosol (AOD) data and the linear trend resulted in Equation 2:
EQUATION 2:
GISS = -91.43 + 1.024Trend + 0.0761MEI(4m lag) + 0.06694TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 2.334AOD (7m lag)
The sign of the Total Solar Irradiance coefficient now agrees with what Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) presented, as shown in Figure 4. Note that including the trend as an independent variable also influenced the scaling of the ENSO (MEI) and Volcanic Aerosol (AOD) data. It increased the scaling factor of the ENSO data a little, but decreased the scaling factor of Volcanic Aerosol significantly. Of course, the inclusion of the trend as an independent variable, with the change in sign of the Solar influence, also gives the adjusted GISS data results that Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) wanted, Figure 5, with the rise in temperature relatively steady over the 32 year period. And note that the trend of 0.172 deg C per decade is comparable to the findings of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) shown in Table 1 for GISS data.
Figure 4
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Figure 5
Of course, I did not include [and Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) could not have included] the trend adjustment from Equation 2 when the corrected data was presented in Figure 5. If the trend adjustment was included, the corrected data would have no trend. That means, it appears Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) needed to include the trend of the GISTEMP data in the regression analysis only to assure the sign of the solar influence they sought.
Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) would have gotten similar scaling factors for the ENSO (MEI), Solar (PMOD), and Volcanic Aerosol (AOD) data if they had simply detrended the GISS Global Surface Temperature data.
EQUATION 3:
Detrended GISS = -86.31 + 0.0759MEI(4m lag) + 0.0632TSI.PMOD(1m lag) – 2.37AOD (7m lag)
REVERSED SIGN OF SOLAR INFLUENCE IS COMMON TO ALL GLOBAL TEMPERATURE DATASETS
Someone is bound to ask whether the GISS Global Surface Temperature dataset is the only dataset with these results. The answer is no. If the linear trend is not included in the multiple linear regression analyses, the sign of the solar coefficient is the opposite of what Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) would had to have used for the NCDC and HADCRUT global land plus sea surface temperature datasets and for the RSS and UAH global Lower Troposphere Temperature data. The resulting equations from the linear regression analyses of the other datasets are presented in equations 4 through 7. The lags for the independent variables are as listed in Table 1 above:
EQUATION 4 (NCDC Land Plus Ocean Surface Temperature):
NCDC = 109.1 + 0.05495MEI(2m lag) – 0.0796TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 3.113AOD (5m lag)
EQUATION 5 (Hadley Centre HADCRUT Global Surface Temperature Anomalies):
HadCRUT3v = 92.21 + 0.06421MEI(3m lag) – 0.0673TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 3.293AOD (6m lag)
EQUATION 6 (RSS MSU Lower Troposphere Temperature Anomalies):
RSS33 = 61.44 + 0.1285MEI(5m lag) – 0.04489TSI.PMOD(0m lag)– 4.863AOD (5m lag)
EQUATION 7 (UAH MSU Lower Troposphere Temperature Anomalies):
UAH = 72.94 + 0.1332MEI(5m lag) – 0.05338TSI.PMOD(0m lag)– 5.139AOD (6m lag)
If we use those coefficients, the five datasets do not produce the nice continuous rise in Global Temperatures that Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) wanted to present, as shown in Figure 6. For the three Surface Temperature anomaly datasets (GISS, HADCRUT, NCDC) 2002 has the highest temperature. It’s only the two Lower Troposphere Temperature anomaly datasets that have 2010 as the warmest year.
Figure 6
And as one would expect, if the linear trends of the other global temperature datasets are included in the independent variables, the signs of the solar coefficients are positive. Refer to equations 8 through 11.
EQUATION 8 (NCDC Land Plus Ocean Surface Temperature, with trend):
NCDC = -106.7 + 1.085Trend + 0.06832MEI(2m lag) + 0.07813TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 1.68AOD (5m lag)
EQUATION 9 (Hadley Centre HADCRUT Global Surface Temperature Anomalies, with trend):
HadCRUT3v = -119.2 + 1.093Trend + 0.07519MEI(3m lag) + 0.08723TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 1.858AOD (6m lag)
EQUATION 10 (RSS MSU Lower Troposphere Temperature Anomalies, with trend):
RSS33 = -135.5 + 1.05Trend + 0.1342MEI(5m lag) + 0.09923TSI.PMOD(0m lag)– 3.479AOD (5m lag)
EQUATION 11 (UAH MSU Lower Troposphere Temperature Anomalies, with trend):
UAH = -105.7 + 0.9953Trend + 0.1381MEI(5m lag) + 0.07742TSI.PMOD(0m lag)– 3.871AOD (6m lag)
With the linear trend included in the multiple regression analyses, the coefficients in the equations above provide the adjustments that Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) presented, Figure 7. I’ve included their Figure 5 as my Figure 8 as a reference.
Figure 7
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Figure 8
THE ASSUMPTION ABOUT THE LINEAR TREND
I’m sure some will attempt to argue that including the trend in the regression analyses is necessary since computer model-based studies have shown the rise in global surface temperature is caused by anthropogenic forcings during the period of 1979 to 2010. But of course, that argument assumes climate models can be used for determining the cause of the rise in Global Surface Temperatures during any period. We have recently illustrated and discussed that the climate models used by the IPCC in their 4th Assessment report have shown no skill at reproducing the global surface temperatures over any period during the 20th Century. Refer to the summary post ON THE IPCC’s UNDUE CONFIDENCE IN COUPLED OCEAN-ATMOSPHERE CLIMATE MODELS – A SUMMARY OF RECENT POSTS. The second problem with their assumption is that the global oceans, which cover about 70% of the surface area of the globe, show no signs of the influence of anthropogenic global warming during the satellite era. And that brings us to…
ENSO IS NOT AN EXOGENOUS FACTOR
Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) included ENSO as one of the exogenous factors they attempted to remove from the instrument temperature record. But ENSO is not an exogenous factor. ENSO is a coupled ocean-atmosphere process that periodically discharges heat to the atmosphere during an El Niño. The El Niño causes changes in atmospheric circulation patterns, which cause temperatures outside of the eastern tropical Pacific to vary, some warming, some cooling, but in total, the areas that warm exceed those that cool and global surface temperatures rise in response to an El Niño. The patterns of warming and cooling during a La Niña are similar to an El Niño, but the signs are reversed. And that’s really all that a paper such as Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) could hope to account for including ENSO in the regression analysis. But there is much more to ENSO.
ENSO is also a process that redistributes the warm water that was leftover from the El Niño itself and enhances the redistribution of the warm water that was created by the El Niño outside of the eastern tropical Pacific. The redistribution carries that warm water poleward and into adjoining ocean basins during the La Niña that follows an El Niño. La Niña events also recharge part of the warm water that was released during the El Niño. Sometimes La Niña events “overcharge” the tropical Pacific, inasmuch as they create recharge more tropical Pacific ocean heat than was discharged during the El Niño that came before it. That was the case during the 1973/74/75/76 and 1995/96 La Niña events. Refer to Figure 9. The 1973/94/75/76 La Niña provided the initial “fuel” for the 1982/83 Super El Niño and the multi-year 1986/87/88 El Niño. And the 1997/98 “El Niño of the Century” was fueled by the 1995/96 La Niña. The process of ENSO cannot be accounted for through linear regression on an index. This was illustrated and discussed at an introductory level in the post ENSO Indices Do Not Represent The Process Of ENSO Or Its Impact On Global Temperature.
Figure 9
Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) cited Trenberth et al (2002) Evolution of El Nino–Southern Oscillation and global atmospheric surface temperatures” as one of their ENSO references. But Trenberth et al (2002) include the following disclaimer in the second paragraph of their Conclusions, (their paragraph 52, my boldface):
The main tool used in this study is correlation and regression analysis that, through least squares fitting, tends to emphasize the larger events. This seems appropriate as it is in those events that the signal is clearly larger than the noise. Moreover, the method properly weights each event (unlike many composite analyses). Although it is possible to use regression to eliminate the linear portion of the global mean temperature signal associated with ENSO, the processes that contribute regionally to the global mean differ considerably, and the linear approach likely leaves an ENSO residual.
The ENSO “residuals” are a significant contributor to the rise in Global Sea Surface Temperatures during the satellite era as we shall see. Did Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) consider these residuals in their analysis? Nope. They assumed the rise was caused by anthropogenic forcing, and they assumed a linear trend represented it.
A more recent paper was overlooked by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011). Compo and Sardeshmukh (2010) “Removing ENSO-Related Variations from the Climate Record” seems to be a step in the right direction. They write (my boldface):
An important question in assessing twentieth-century climate is to what extent have ENSO-related variations contributed to the observed trends. Isolating such contributions is challenging for several reasons, including ambiguities arising from how ENSO is defined. In particular, defining ENSO in terms of a single index and ENSO-related variations in terms of regressions on that index, as done in many previous studies, can lead to wrong conclusions. This paper argues that ENSO is best viewed not as a number but as an evolving dynamical process for this purpose.
And as Compo and Sardeshmukh have suggested, Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) have reached the wrong conclusion.
Note: Compo and Sardeshmukh missed a very important aspect of ENSO. They overlooked the significance of the huge volume of warm water that is left over from El Niño events and they failed to account for its contribution to the rise in global Sea Surface Temperature anomalies since about 1976.
Let’s not forget the much-heralded Thompson et al (2008) paper “Identifying signatures of natural climate variability in time series of global-mean surface temperature: Methodology and Insights.” Thompson et al (2008) is the basis for the new and improved HADSST3 global sea surface temperature anomaly dataset from the Hadley Centre. Thompson et al (2008), like Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), is flawed because they attempt to remove the ENSO signal from the Global Surface Temperature record and claim the remainder of the rise in surface temperature is caused by anthropogenic forcings. In the Introduction, Thompson et al (2008) write (my boldface):
In this study we exploit a series of novel methodologies to identify and filter out of the unsmoothed monthly mean time series of global-mean land and ocean temperatures the variance associated with ENSO, dynamically induced atmospheric variability, and volcanic eruptions. The impacts of ENSO and volcanic eruptions on global-mean temperature are estimated using a simple thermodynamic model of the global atmospheric–oceanic mixed layer response to anomalous heating. In the case of ENSO, the heating is assumed to be proportional to the sea surface temperature anomalies over the eastern Pacific…”
That is a monumental assumption, and it’s the same flawed assumption made by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011).
But it was that specific language in Thompson et al (2008) that caused me to divide the Sea Surface Temperature anomalies of the Global Oceans into the two subsets, and those were the East Pacific from pole to pole (90S-90N, 180-80W) and of the Rest-Of-World (Atlantic-Indian-West Pacific) from pole to pole (90S-90N, 80W-180). And by coincidence, I used the Sea Surface Temperature dataset (Reynolds OI.v2) that’s used in the GISS Land-Ocean Temperature Index, which is Tamino’s favorite global Surface Temperature anomaly dataset. I first presented the Sea Surface Temperature for those two subsets in the March 3, 2011 post Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies – East Pacific Versus The Rest Of The World. (For those who are interested, there are about a dozen additional posts that discuss ENSO and the multiyear aftereffects of specific ENSO events linked at the end of that post.)
The East Pacific Sea Surface Temperature anomalies from pole to pole, Figure 10, are dominated by the variations in tropical Pacific caused by ENSO, and as a result, the variations in the East Pacific Sea Surface Temperature anomalies mimic ENSO, represented by the scaled NINO3.4 Sea Surface Temperature anomalies. The trend of the East Pacific Sea Surface Temperature anomalies is relatively flat at 0.011 deg C/Decade.
Figure 10
The reason the trend is so flat: warm water from the surface and below the surface of the western Pacific Warm Pool is carried eastward during an El Niño and spread across the surface of the eastern tropical Pacific, raising sea surface temperatures there. And during the La Niña events that follow El Niño events, the leftover warm water is returned to the western tropical Pacific. Due to the increased strength of the trade winds during the La Nina, there is an increase in upwelling of cool subsurface waters in the eastern equatorial Pacific, so the Sea Surface Temperatures there drop. In other words, the East Pacific is simply a temporary staging area for the warm water of an El Niño event. Warm water sloshes into this dataset from the western tropical Pacific and releases heat, and then the warm water sloshes back out.
But the warm waters released from below the surface of the West Pacific Warm Pool during the El Niño are not done impacting Sea Surface Temperatures throughout the global oceans, and they cannot be accounted for by an ENSO index. That leftover warm water is returned to the West Pacific during a La Niña event that follows an El Niño, much of it remaining on the surface. The Sea Surface Temperature in the western Pacific rises as a result. At approximately 10N latitude, a slow-moving Rossby wave also carries leftover warm water from the eastern tropical Pacific back to the western Pacific during the La Niña. Ocean currents carry the warm water poleward to the Kuroshio-Oyashio Extension (KOE) east of Japan and to the South Pacific Convergence Zone (SPCZ) east of Australia, and the Indonesian Throughflow (an ocean current) carries the warm water into the tropical Indian Ocean. And as noted above, due to the increased strength of the trade winds during the La Nina, there is an increase in upwelling of cool subsurface waters in the eastern equatorial Pacific, so the Sea Surface Temperatures there drop. But that cooler-than-normal water is quickly warmed during the La Niña as it is carried west by the stronger-than-normal ocean currents that are caused by the stronger-than-normal trade winds. And the reason that water warms so quickly as it is carried west is because the stronger-than-normal trade winds reduce cloud cover, and this allows more downward shortwave radiation (visible sunlight) to warm the ocean to depth. This additional warm water helps to maintain the Sea Surface Temperatures in the West Pacific and East Indian Oceans at elevated levels during the La Niña and it also recharges the West Pacific Warm Pool for the next El Niño event. Refer again to Figure 9, but keep in mind that it presents the Ocean Heat Content for the entire tropical Pacific, not just the Pacific Warm Pool.
And what happens when a major El Niño event is followed by a La Niña event? The Sea Surface Temperature anomalies for the Atlantic, Indian, and West Pacific Oceans (the Rest-Of-The-World outside of the East Pacific) first rise in response to the El Niño; the 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Niño events. Then the Sea Surface Temperatures of the Atlantic, Indian, and West Pacific Oceans are maintained at elevated levels by the La Niña; the 1988/89 and 1998/99/00/01 La Niña events. The results are the apparent upward shifts in the Sea Surface Temperature anomalies of the Atlantic, Indian, and West Pacific Oceans from pole to pole (90S-90N, 80W-180), as illustrated in Figure 11.
Figure 11
The dip and rebound starting in 1991 is caused by the volcanic aerosols emitted by the explosive volcanic eruption of Mount Pinatubo. And the reason the Rest-Of-The-World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies respond so little to the 1982/83 Super El Niño is because that El Niño was counteracted by the eruption of El Chichon in 1982.
To assure readers that the upward shifts in Rest-Of-The-World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies coincide with the 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Niño events, I’ve included an ENSO index, NINO3.4 Sea Surface Temperature anomalies, in Figure 12. The NINO3.4 Sea Surface Temperature anomalies have been scaled (multiplied by a factor of 0.12) to allow for a better visual comparison and shifted back in time by 6 months to account for the time lag between the variations in NINO3.4 Sea Surface Temperature anomalies and the response of the Rest-Of-The-World data.
Figure 12
But the ENSO Index data is visually noisy and it detracts from the upward shifts, so in Figure 13 I’ve isolated the data between the significant El Niño events. To accomplish this, I used the NOAA Oceanic Nino Index (ONI) to determine the official months of those El Niño events. There is a 6-month lag between NINO3.4 SST anomalies and the response of the Rest-Of-The-World SST anomalies during the evolution phase of the 1997/98 El Niño. So the ONI data was lagged by six months, and the Rest-Of-The-World SST data that corresponded to the 1982/83, 1986/87/88, 1998/98, and 2009/10 El Niño events was excluded—left as black dashed lines. All other months of data remain.
Figure 13
And to help further highlight the upward shifts, the average Sea Surface Temperature anomalies between the major El Niño events are added in Figure 14.
Figure 14
Based on past posts where I’ve presented the same dataset, some comments suggest the period average temperatures are misleading and request that I illustrate the linear trends. Figure 15 illustrates how flat the trends are between the 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Niño events and between the 1997/98 and 2009/10 El Niño events.
Figure 15
Back to the East Pacific data: If we adjust the East Pacific Sea Surface Temperature anomalies for the effects of volcanic aerosols, Figure 16, the linear trend is slightly negative. In other words, for approximately 33% of the surface area of the global oceans, Sea Surface Temperature anomalies have not risen in 30 years.
Figure 16
Note: The method used to adjust for the volcanic eruptions is described in the post Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies – East Pacific Versus The Rest Of The World, under the heading of ACCOUNTING FOR THE IMPACTS OF VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS.
And if we adjust the Rest-Of-The-World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies for volcanic aerosols, Figure 17, we reduce the effects of the dip and rebound caused by the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo. And the trend of the Rest-Of-The-World data between the 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Niño drops slightly compared to the unadjusted data (Figure 15), making it even flatter and slightly negative.
Figure 17
In summary, ENSO is a coupled ocean-atmosphere process and its effects on Global Surface Temperatures cannot be accounted for with linear regression of an ENSO index as attempted by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011)–and others before them. We can simply add Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) to the list of numerous papers that make the same error. Examples:
Lean and Rind (2009) How Will Earth’s Surface Temperature Change in Future Decades?
And:
Lean and Rind (2008) How Natural and Anthropogenic Influences Alter Global and Regional Surface Temperatures: 1889 to 2006
And:
Santer et al (2001), Accounting for the effects of volcanoes and ENSO in comparisons of modeled and observed temperature trends
And:
Thompson et al (2008), Identifying signatures of natural climate variability in time series of global-mean surface temperature: Methodology and Insights
And:
Trenberth et al (2002) Evolution of El Nino–Southern Oscillation and global atmospheric surface temperatures
And:
Wigley, T. M. L. (2000), ENSO, volcanoes, and record-breaking temperatures
Additionally, Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) assumed that the global warming signal is linear and that it is caused by anthropogenic forcings, but those assumptions are not supported by the satellite-era Sea Surface Temperature record as shown above. The global warming signal is not linear, and the El Niño events of 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 are shown to be the cause of the rise in sea surface temperatures, not anthropogenic greenhouse gases.
THE ATLANTIC MULTIDECADAL OSCILLATION
Those who have downloaded Tamino’s allfit2.xls file here (and changed it back to a .zip file) will notice that the data in Column AA is identified as “AMO”. And yes, that is Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation data from the NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL) AMO website.
Note: The current AMO data and the data listed in Tamino’s file are slightly different. The reason: The ESRL AMO data is constantly evolving. Each month, when the new North Atlantic (0-70N, 80W-0) Sea Surface Temperature data are added, the data is detrended with the new data.
One could only speculate why Tamino included the AMO data in the spreadsheet–and why the data in the spreadsheet extends back to 1950, when the paper only deals with the period of 1979 to 2010. And one can also wonder why Tamino would include the ESRL AMO data, which is based on Kaplan North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature anomaly data, when no surface temperature datasets (GISS, HADCRUT or NCDC) use Kaplan SST. It’s like subtracting the Hadley Centre’s CRUTEMP land surface temperature data from GISS LOTI data to determine the Sea Surface Temperature portion of GISTEMP LOTI data. The datasets are not the same. I’ve already pointed this error out to Tamino and his disciples in the post Comments On Tamino’s AMO Post.
But for example, let’s satisfy your curiosity. Let’s assume you were wondering what the results would be if you were to account for the impact of the AMO on Northern Hemisphere surface temperatures, using a linear regression analysis with the ESRL AMO data as the independent variable and with GISS Northern Hemisphere Surface Temperature data as the dependent variable. We’ll confine the example to the Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) time period of 1979 to 2010. Refer to Figure 18. The AMO-adjusted Northern Hemisphere surface Temperature has a linear trend that is only 41% of the unadjusted Northern Hemisphere data. Hmm. That would mean the AMO was responsible for 59% of the rise in Northern Hemisphere surface temperatures based on linear regression analysis.
Figure 18
And that’s in line with generalization made by Tamino’s associates at RealClimate in their Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (“AMO”)webpage. There they write that the AMO is:
A multidecadal (50-80 year timescale) pattern of North Atlantic ocean-atmosphere variability whose existence has been argued for based on statistical analyses of observational and proxy climate data, and coupled Atmosphere-Ocean General Circulation Model (“AOGCM”) simulations. This pattern is believed to describe some of the observed early 20th century (1920s-1930s) high-latitude Northern Hemisphere warming and some, but not all, of the high-latitude warming observed in the late 20th century. The term was introduced in a summary by Kerr (2000) of a study by Delworth and Mann (2000).
59% is definitely “some, but not all”.
Tamino continues to complain that one can’t make adjustments for the AMO because it includes a global warming component. For example, in a response to a December 22, 2011 at 6:11 pm comment by Colin Aldridge,Tamino writes:
As for AMO, unlike ENSO (or PDO for that matter) it IS temperature. Pure and simple, nothing more nothing less. Attributing temperature change to temperature change seems kinda stupid.
Hmm. I believe Tamino misses the point that the AMO is a mode of additionalvariability and that it is detrended over the entire term of the data.
Further to this end, I discussed and illustrated for Tamino that we can subtract the “warming signal” of the Global Sea Surface Temperature anomalies excluding the North Atlantic from the North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature anomalies. That way we’re left with only the additional variability of North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature anomalies caused by the AMO. And that’s really how the AMO should be expressed. We’ll call the difference the North Atlantic Residual. The North Atlantic Residual has, approximately, the same trend as the AMO for the 1979 to 2010 period of Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), as shown in Figure 19.
Figure 19
Note: The North Atlantic Residual data presented in Figure 16 is based on the combination of HADISST data for the years 1979 to November 1981 and Reynolds OI.v2 SST data from December 1981 to present in agreement with the GISS recipe listed on their GISS Surface Temperature Analysis webpage. To remove the North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature data from the Global data, the North Atlantic surface area for the coordinates of 0-70N, 80W-0 was determined to represent 11% of the surface area of the global oceans.
And as an additional check of the sign of the solar correction, I performed multiple linear regression analyses with GISS Northern Hemisphere Surface Temperature data as the dependent variable and using the AMO data as an independent variable in one instance and the North Atlantic Residual data in a second. The analyses also included the ENSO (MEI), Solar (PMOD), and Volcanic Aerosols (AOD.NH) as independent variables with the same lags as the global data. In both instances, the sign of the solar correction was the opposite of what Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) were looking for, as shown in equations 12 and 13:
EQUATION 12:
GISS.NH = 62.25 + 0.001696MEI (4m lag) – 0.04528TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 1.683AOD.NH (7m lag) + 0.866AMO (0m lag)
EQUATION 13:
GISS.NH = 72.12 + 0.04751MEI (4m lag) – 0.05258TSI.PMOD(1m lag)– 2.413AOD.NH (7m lag) + 0.72N. Atl. Residual (0m lag)
A closing AMO note: For an additional discussion on how the North Atlantic impacts the Sea Surface Temperatures of the periods between the upward shifts caused by the 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Niño events, refer to the post Supplement To “ENSO Indices Do Not Represent The Process Of ENSO Or Its Impact On Global Temperature”.
CLOSING COMMENTS
I found the inclusion of a linear trend in the regression analyses performed by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) to be very interesting. It appears the linear trends were included simply to cause a solar correction that was the sign the authors wanted for their adjustments. One might think, if the basic results of the paper were dependent on whether a linear trend was included in the multiple regression analyses, this would have been discussed in the paper. And again, if you have the capability, and if you’re not satisfied with the similarities between my results and the Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) results (Figures 7 and 8), please confirm the multiple regression analyses results presented above with and without the linear trend.
This post also illustrated and discussed the error in their assumption that regression analysis can be used to remove the impacts of ENSO on Global Surface Temperature. ENSO is a process that is not fully represented by ENSO Indices. In other words, the ENSO indices only represent a small portion of the impacts of ENSO on Global Surface Temperatures. Attempting to use an ENSO index as Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) have done is like trying to provide the play-by-play for a baseball game solely from an overhead view of home plate.
The assumption made by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) that a linear trend provides an approximate “global warming” signal was shown to be erroneous using Sea Surface Temperature data. When broken down into two logical subsets of the East Pacific and the Atlantic-Indian-West Pacific Oceans, Satellite-era Sea Surface Temperature data shows no evidence of an anthropogenic global warming signal. It only shows upward shifts associated with strong ENSO events. This would seem to complicate any attempt to justify the inclusion of the linear trend to reverse the sign of the solar adjustment.
And thanks to Tamino for including the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation data in his spreadsheet. It allowed me to illustrate the significant impact the AMO can have on Northern Hemisphere surface temperatures.
Happy New Year to all.
ABOUT: Bob Tisdale – Climate Observations
SOURCES
The spreadsheet that served as the source of the data for the regression analyses was linked to Tamino’s (Grant Foster’s) post Data and Code for Foster & Rahmstorf 2011.
To save you some time, here’s a copy of the file that contains the spreadsheet from Tamino’s blog that I’ve uploaded to mine, allfit2 as of 12-21-11. Again, you’ll have to download the file and change it to a .zip file in order to open it.
The Reynolds OI.v2 Sea Surface Temperature data used in the ENSO discussion is available through the NOAA NOMADS website here.
The Aerosol Optical Thickness data used in the volcano adjustments of the Sea Surface Temperature data in Figures 13 and 14 is available from GISS the Stratospheric Aerosol Optical Thickness webpage here.




















@Gneiss: I looked back at the post you were referencing, and I said: “Second, they don’t prove that a linear trend is physically appropriate, nor that it is superior to alternatives (i.e. non-linear trends).” Perhaps you took the second part of the statement to mean in a curve-fitting way, but I was still referring to “physically appropriate”.
I’ll add that I do agree that Bob didn’t cut his losses with his correction. He could’ve admitted, “I’m in general a well-reasoned thinker and am pretty skilled in analysis with Excel, but I’m not familiar with the specialized terms and procedures in the time-series analysis world. I had a fundamental misunderstanding in the first part of my analysis and the whole linear trend and sign-flip part of my article was wrong. I’m deleting it from the front of my article and sticking it at the end for reference, but it was always only a ‘hmmm… this looks odd’ observation and secondary to my primary argument that F&R 2011 is mistaken in using ‘ENSO’ as an independent variable. My misunderstanding led me to implying that F&R were pulling a statistical/mathematical fast one with their linear trend, but this isn’t true. (Their statistics were correct, but as some have pointed out in their comments, the choice of a linear trend is probably not physically justified.) I hope we can focus on the main point of my article instead.”
But instead it sounds like he’s blaming Excel and a difference between phrases that don’t have different meanings and aren’t used in the field (“linear trend” versus “linear time trend”), and saying that his point is still somewhat valid because his charts look like F&R’s charts. It comes off as face-saving. When you’re wrong, it’s best to be thorough and to clear the boards so you don’t leave room for further attacks on the same issues.
(I take it you disagree with his argument on ENSO, and my doubts about a linear trend being physically justified, though.)
Wayne, my polynomial was too snarky, sorry about that. Let me rewind:
There are infinitely many alternatives to a linear trend, including infinitely many that in the big view are very curvy (like sine or logrithmic) but over some particular window like a 30-year span behave pretty close to linear, especially as judged against noisy data such as temps where the annual variations (due to ENSO, for instance) are greater in magnitude than the trend.
In a practical sense the line-v-curve debate is moot for that case, since they yield basically the same result. Obviously there’s a big difference if somebody decides to extrapolate, but F&R don’t go there.
We can’t test a simple model against the infinitely many alternatives that could be proposed. The burden of proof has to go the other way: show convincingly that something else is better. F&R propose a very simple model that seems to work pretty well, but it’s just a step in the conversation and not the last word. The next step will be testing ideas about what else is more plausible and works better. Maybe that will upend F&R, maybe just improve it.
One question here appears (incredibly) to be – is the ENSO a mathematical artifact (the AGW position) or is it an actual physical process.
This question could be addressed by an analogy with the human heart-beat. Both ENSO and the human heart beat have in common that they are nonlinear oscillators.
Does the human heart beat that we can feel, relate to a real physical process, i.e., do we according to the pre-modern traditional view possess a real physical beating heart, or (in a more sophisticated modern view) is the phenomenon of the heart beat in fact an epiphenomenon of long term trends related for instance to ageing? In other words, is it connected to death rather than to life? Do we have an actual heart or – if we are clever enough at maths – can we live without one?
The same question can be applied to ENSO – is it associated with some physical oscillatory system (a traditional view), or is it – as Tamino, F&R and others in the AGW camp hold – merely a mathematical residual of a CO2-related warming trend?
phlogiston writes,
“One question here appears (incredibly) to be – is the ENSO a mathematical artifact (the AGW position) or is it an actual physical process.”
Where have you seen that “AGW position”? I don’t speak anybody’s position but I haven’t heard any scientists claiming ENSO is a mathematical artifact, it’s obviously physical.
I have read serious analyses that question whether the regularity of AMO is a statistical artifact, but that’s a whole other thing.
One point of confusion is the word “oscillation,” which to some people means a regular, predictable cycle but to others means approximately “sometimes it’s one way, sometimes it’s the other.” There’s a “quasi-periodic oscillation” term which also attends this.
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 6, 2012 at 7:52 am
Geoff Sharp says:
January 6, 2012 at 5:51 am
Are you still game to stand up in front of your workshop and proclaim EUV is not involved in any fashion to form ozone?
——————————————————
Of course. But note your weasel words “in any fashion”. If the EUV produces 1 of a million molecules of ozone, that is ‘any fashion’, but not of interest in the overall budget.
I think you are being the weasel here. Your statements once again have been proven completely wrong but you attempt to weasel out of your predicament.
This paper in 2002 demonstrates the ozone in mesosphere and thermosphere and the movement of rich atomic oxygen from the thermosphere to the mesosphere to form ozone. This is clear evidence of substantial ozone formed from the action of EUV.
High Resolution Doppler Imager observations of ozone in the
mesosphere and lower thermosphere
Daniel R. Marsh
National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, Colorado, USA
http://acd.ucar.edu/~marsh/2001JD001505.pdf
Therefore, daytime ozone will reflect the atomic
oxygen concentration, the temperature and the neutral
density (all changed by the presence of tides in the MLT).
Studies of nightglow have shown that the solar migrating
diurnal tide can significantly affect the distribution of
atomic oxygen in the MLT [see, e.g., Burrage et al., 1994;
Roble and Shepherd, 1997; Yee et al ., 1997]. Modeled
vertical winds associated with the migrating diurnal tide can
exceed 10 cm s
1
at the equator [Hagan et al., 1999]. This,
along with the presence of large vertical gradients in atomic
oxygen mixing ratios, can lead to large (factor of 5 at 95
km) changes in atomic oxygen. Essentially, tides ‘‘pump’’
air rich in atomic oxygen down from the lower thermo-
sphere to the mesosphere, where it combines with molecular
oxygen to form ozone.
Later in 2010 another paper confirms the results although maybe coming up with some other functions responsible for the downwelling of EUV formed atomic oxygen along with atmospheric tides.
Daytime ozone and temperature variations in the mesosphere: a
comparison between SABER observations and HAMMONIA model
S. Dikty1, H. Schmidt
2, M. Weber1, C. von Savigny1, and M. G. Mlynczak3
http://www.atmos-chem-phys.org/10/8331/2010/acp-10-8331-2010.pdf
The sun influences the thermal structure, dynamics, and
chemistry of the Earth’s middle atmosphere. If ultraviolet
(UV) radiation levels alter, middle atmospheric ozone is af-
fected as well as other trace gases formed by photolysis from
a direct radiation effect and due to a dynamical response
to solar variability (indirect effect). In particular, the re-
sponse of ozone above 60 km to variations in UV radiation
is not well established. In comparison with the 27-day so-
lar rotation signal (e.g., Chen et al., 1997; Hood and Zhou,
1998; Ruzmaikin et al., 2007; Gruzdev et al., 2009; Dikty et
al., 2010) and the 11-year solar cycle response (e.g., Haigh,
2003; Hood, 2004; Crooks and Gray, 2005; Soukharev and
Hood, 2006; Marsh et al., 2007) in the middle atmosphere,
the daytime variation of UV radiation inflicts a by far greater
response in mesospheric ozone.
Notice how the authors use the generic term of UV, it is very obvious that EUV is a major contributor especially considering the attitudes involved.
Another paper in 2011 showing the ozone levels in the MLT.
New insights into the stratospheric and mesosphere-lower
thermospheric ozone response to the abrupt changes in solar forcing
Karanam Kishore Kumar, K. V. Subrahmanyam, and Sherine Rachel John
http://www.ann-geophys.net/29/1093/2011/angeo-29-1093-2011.pdf
Another paper in 1984 dealing with MLT ozone.
The Vertical Distribution of Ozone in the Mesosphere and Lower Thermosphere
Mark Allen
Division of Geological and Planetary Sciences, California Institute of Technology
Jonathan I. Lunine
Division of Geological and Planetary Sciences, California Institute of Technology
Yuk L. Yung
Division of Geological and Planetary Sciences, California Institute of Technology
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1984/JD089iD03p04841.shtml
There are many references across the internet referring to the zonal mixing between the different atmospheric layers, I suggest you do some homework and bring yourself up to speed.
Your statements about the non effect of EUV in the production of ozone have been totally squashed. Your statement of no ozone in the thermosphere is also squashed. More importantly EUV and FUV that fluctuate by at least 30% over the solar cycle are shown to have massive influence on ozone production as well as the size and temperature of the thermosphere. The following statement of yours has also been answered, shame on you again, you have little scientific integrity.
And any O3 molecule would be destroyed by the same process. And you falsely claimed that Baldwin talked about EUV. He did not. Either you did not even read his paper or you are deliberately lying and hoping nobody would notice. Which is it?
So I will say it again, get off your TSI bandwagon and start looking at the solar chemical effects that affect climate, then you might make headway to the “big boy” status.
Note to Stephen Wilde and Erl Happ if you are reading. The above papers may have some relevance when looking at Haig’s ozone results above 45km. Maybe the increased mixing in the MLT zone increases ozone at higher levels to the detriment of ozone found lower in the stratosphere which would be shielded from the action taking place overhead??
cope writes,
“You are just being evasive.”
Not at all, I’m just being consistent. What you mean is, I’m not doing what you want.
I have read the Compo (2010) piece, also Solomon (2011) and some others, but as I said earlier I claim no expertise on ENSO and know very little of the lit, so my views aren’t especially sharp. I’ll offer them anyway FWIW, if Tisdale tells his believers here that the insinuations against F&R based on his statistical confusion, basically the first third of his post, all were false.
I do know a little about data analysis, which is why I’ve talked about that here. What I’ve seen of Tisdale’s work in that area — not just the beginner mistakes but building that gotcha-house on top of them, rushing it to publication, then responding so weakly (still happening) as others caught the mistakes — gives me no reason to assume that his oceanography is solid either. But whether it is or not should be evaluated by people who know.
Sorry, Gneiss, but your evasions just don’t wash. You now claim to have read Compo 2010 (you’re making progress!) so you know that it is not just BT who believes it is a significant error to treat ENSO as a single index for this type of analysis. This is the main thrust of BT’s thesis and it seems well supported. The linear trend issue is a sideshow- yes, exacerbated by BT’s misunderstandings, but it is a sideshow. The substantive challenge to F&R is ENSO.
Geoff Sharp says:
January 6, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Your statements about the non effect of EUV in the production of ozone have been totally squashed. Your statement of no ozone in the thermosphere is also squashed.
The papers you cite are concerned with the lower thermosphere where EUV does not penetrate to. Study this graph carefully: http://www.leif.org/research/Oxygen-Ozone-Thermosphere.png
The scales are logarithmic. So, the ozone concentration at 140 km altitude [bottom of thermosphere] is 12 orders of magnitude smaller than at 40 km. That is 1,000,000,000,000 times smaller. The atomic oxygen concentration in the thermosphere is 8 orders of magnitude smaller. That means that for each oxygen atom in the thermosphere there are 100,000,000 molecules of ozone at 40 km. So, even you should be able to see that the oxygen in the thermosphere [even if ALL of it is ‘pumped down’] cannot make any significant contribution to the formation of the ozone layer.
All the rest of your rhetoric is just that. What you have no appreciation of is the importance of quantitative measures. And we still come back to: “And you falsely claimed that Baldwin talked about EUV. He did not. Either you did not even read his paper or you are deliberately lying and hoping nobody would notice. Which is it?”.
Gneiss says:
January 6, 2012 at 5:15 pm
………”But whether it is or not should be evaluated by people who know.”
======================
You used up half the thread to make this statement ?
Good job.
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 6, 2012 at 8:52 pm
So, the ozone concentration at 140 km altitude [bottom of thermosphere] is 12 orders of magnitude smaller than at 40 km.
All the rest of your rhetoric is just that. What you have no appreciation of is the importance of quantitative measures.
Nice try, we are not that simple. The bottom of the thermosphere in this universe is around 85km and it is this region that is important along with the upper mesosphere. EUV at 120nm is active in this region.Your 140-40km analogy is fruitless. There is also evidence the thermosphere baseline drops during low solar activity that needs to be accounted for.
From Marsh:
[1] Observations made by the High Resolution Doppler Imager (HRDI) onboard the
Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite (UARS) of molecular oxygen Atmospheric band
dayglow and temperature are used to infer ozone mixing ratios in the mesosphere and
lower thermosphere. The retrieval relies on the fact that a significant portion of the
dayglow originates from ozone photolysis. Observations cover up to 72 in latitude and an
altitude range of 65–97 km, with a vertical resolution of 2.5 km.
And we still come back to: “And you falsely claimed that Baldwin talked about EUV. He did not. Either you did not even read his paper or you are deliberately lying and hoping nobody would notice. Which is it?”
Baldwin says in his QBO paper referenced earlier:
“Because of the strong absorption of ozone in the
UV occurring in the upper stratosphere and meso-
sphere, a solar influence on the thermal structure in
these regions of the atmosphere is plausible. This, in
turn, might affect the strength of the planetary wave
driven “extratropical pump” [Holton et al., 1995]. A
mechanism involving downward propagation of strato-
spheric anomalies, through modification of planetary
wave propagation from below, is discussed in section 6.2.”
He is discussing the ozone formation in the mesosphere which influences the QBO via planetary waves which in turn breaks up the northern (only) polar vortex. As ozone in the mesosphere is formed directly by EUV (120nm UV) and is also a bi-product of downwelling thermospheric atomic oxygen, my statements of EUV influence in the break up of the vortex (and climate effects) are completely relevant. Also of relevance is the FUV function in this process. So I am not lying as you rudely put it, just reading between the very obvious lines. It seems Baldwyn was on the ball but perhaps did not go high enough.
You have gone from no EUV influence to influence not worthy. Keep reading, you will get there one day.
Geoff Sharp says:
January 6, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Nice try, we are not that simple. The bottom of the thermosphere in this universe is around 85km
The bottom 50 km of the thermosphere is heated by thermal conduction, not by EUV as EUV does not penetrate that far [being already absorbed higher up], see e.g. slide 10 of http://www.leif.org/EOS/Oxygen-in-Upper-Atmosphere.ppt . And you ignore [or do not understand] that there is not enough atomic oxygen in the whole thermosphere [and even mesosphere] to make a significant contribution to the ozone layer [by a factor of many, many millions] even if you could ‘pump’ it ALL down. This is perhaps the strongest argument. You may want to comment on your understanding [or lack thereof] of this. If you fail to comment, we must take that as tacit agreement.
Baldwin says in his QBO paper referenced earlier:
“Because of the strong absorption of ozone in the UV occurring in the upper stratosphere and mesosphere”.
No mention of EUV. You make this up by going beyond what Baldwin said.
You have gone from no EUV influence to influence not worthy
There is no practical difference and a long way to ” Solar influence on climate (isolating PDO) is more likely a result of the large fluctuations in solar EUV”, which was my point. You may have forgotten my first comment on this: “The fluctuations in EUV are so minute that they have almost no effect on surface tropospheric temperature.” So again, you are being economical with the truth.
If you want some dueling links, try page 8 of http://www.leif.orgEOS/20111207-lockwood.pdf : “EUV dominates thermosphere, no evidence nor credible mechanism for coupling to the troposphere”
If you want some dueling links, try page 8 of http://www.leif.org/EOS/20111207-lockwood.pdf : “EUV dominates thermosphere, no evidence nor credible mechanism for coupling to the troposphere”
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 6, 2012 at 11:01 pm
The bottom 50 km of the thermosphere is heated by thermal conduction, not by EUV as EUV does not penetrate that far [being already absorbed higher up], see e.g. slide 10 of http://www.leif.org/EOS/Oxygen-in-Upper-Atmosphere.ppt . And you ignore [or do not understand] that there is not enough atomic oxygen in the whole thermosphere [and even mesosphere] to make a significant contribution to the ozone layer [by a factor of many, many millions] even if you could ‘pump’ it ALL down. This is perhaps the strongest argument. You may want to comment on your understanding [or lack thereof] of this. If you fail to comment, we must take that as tacit agreement.
So you now agree the average bottom of the thermosphere is 85km?…A little hard to keep up with you. Your logic is false, the ozone exists (it is there) at high altitudes with a peak in the thermosphere around 1ppm at around 92.5km. This is 10% of the highest reading lower in the stratosphere, so there is more than ample rich atomic oxygen as Marsh describes to fuel ozone requirements in the higher regions, this is also available for lower regions and explains the jump in ozone in the mesosphere. This is observed in at least 2 papers, are you challenging these papers suggesting the atomic oxygen is not present?
If so you will need to provide the necessary links.
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 6, 2012 at 11:05 pm
If you want some dueling links, try page 8 of http://www.leif.org/EOS/20111207-lockwood.pdf : “EUV dominates thermosphere, no evidence nor credible mechanism for coupling to the troposphere”
The scientific links you have been posting on this topic are pathetic.
@Gneiss: Part of my issue is that F&R do in fact “go there” in terms of extrapolating. The last sentence of their conclusion is: “Its unabated increase is powerful evidence that we can expect further temperature increase in the next few decades, emphasizing the urgency of confronting the human influence on climate.” They do, in fact, extrapolate a linear trend over time, which is one of the reasons I have been hitting the issue so hard.
Its good to see that they put the kibosh on the Catastrophic (i.e. exponentially increasing) AGW, but linear interpolation of time trends is oh so Excel.
And I do have to disagree with your “infinitely many alternatives, so you have to propose one of them” argument. If they demonstrated that there was a physical basis for a linear trend, I might agree that a counter-argument requires a counter-example. As far as I can tell, however, they have not done this. They basically eyeballed the numbers and said, “Hey, a straight line looks reasonable.” and there’s the extra benefit that no one argues the “hey, I can use an Nth-order polynomial” against a linear trend.
In this case, the burden of proof is on them, not me. Especially when they several times in their paper extrapolate their straight line.
As a side note, I’m feeling pretty good about this whole conversation. I’ve not done well at statistics over the years, but through Machine Learning and AI, I got exposed several times and about two years ago it began to click. Since then, it’s been basically my hobby. (Yes, in the evenings and on vacation, I’ll do statistical stuff to relax.) I feel like I’ve learned enough so far to catch the problems in this thread. Woot!
Geoff Sharp says:
January 7, 2012 at 5:33 am
So you now agree the average bottom of the thermosphere is 85km?…
You don’t seem to understand the physics. The bottom of the part that is heated by EUV is 130-140 km. The lower part is heated by thermal conduction, nothing to do with EUV.
with a peak in the thermosphere around 1ppm at around 92.5km. This is 10% of the highest reading lower in the stratosphere
Again you don’t understand the physics. The peak is in mixing ratio, namely one per million. But because the air is so much thinner [1000 times] the actual amount is 1000/0.1 = 10000 times smaller that the stratospheric amount.
so there is more than ample rich atomic oxygen as Marsh describes to fuel ozone requirements in the higher regions, this is also available for lower regions and explains the jump in ozone in the mesosphere.
Again, you do not understand the physics or the observations. The concentration of atomic oxygen http://www.leif.org/research/Oxygen-Ozone-Thermosphere.png is between 2000 and 4000 atoms/cc. The ozone concentration at the mesosphere peak is 100,000,000 molecules per cubic centimeter, so even you should be able to see that there is not enough atomic oxygen to make more than 30,000 times ozone. Not to speak about the 1000,000,000,000 molecules of ozone in the stratosphere.
This is observed in at least 2 papers, are you challenging these papers suggesting the atomic oxygen is not present?
No, explaining you why the ozone is not derived from that puny amount of atomic oxygen in the thermosphere
The scientific links you have been posting on this topic are pathetic.
Trying to stay at a level you would understand, but even that turned out to be too much for you. As I said, take your ball and go home before you embarrass yourself further. To summarize: there is no evidence or mechanism for EUV producing any effects at the surface.
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 7, 2012 at 7:57 am
You don’t seem to understand the physics. The bottom of the part that is heated by EUV is 130-140 km. The lower part is heated by thermal conduction, nothing to do with EUV.
The heating is not the issue and the experts who understand the physics perfectly tell us ozone in the mesosphere is charged by thermospheric atomic oxygen. EUV at 120nm is capable of oxygen photodissociation down to a height of 80km. The stratosphere makes up 9% of the atmosphere with the mesosphere making up 1% so the proportions are adequate. Baldwin believes the polar vortex is controlled by ozone changes in the mesosphere; many other experts show important downwelling changes in this area from above. It doesn’t matter how small you think these changes are, the experts think they are large enough to break up the polar vortex in the stratosphere, which in turn affects the troposphere. Everything is linked which you fail to see, or perhaps ignore, hoping to save some sort of face.
I have produced solid scientific evidence whereas you have provided rhetoric …time to give it up,
Wayne2 says: “But instead it sounds like he’s blaming Excel….”
Please identify where in my update I blame EXCEL.
Geoff Sharp says:
January 7, 2012 at 4:53 pm
ozone in the mesosphere is charged by thermospheric atomic oxygen. EUV at 120nm is capable of oxygen photodissociation down to a height of 80km
You contradict yourself here. And oxygen photo dissociation does not need EUV. Ordinary UV between 120 and 240 nm [of which there is a thousand times more than of EUV] is good enough.
many other experts show important downwelling changes in this area from above. It doesn’t matter how small you think these changes are, the experts think they are large enough to break up the polar vortex in the stratosphere, which in turn affects the troposphere.
You are trying to tell the folks that 3000 atoms of atomic oxygen moving down from the thermosphere create a quadrillion molecules of ozone in the stratosphere or a 100 million molecules in the mesosphere. Good luck with that. None of the ‘experts’ you have cited have said anything even close to what you claim. The breakdown of the polar vortex is mostly due to Rossby waves in the troposphere. These waves travel upward to the stratosphere and are dissipated there, producing stratospheric warming and the breakdown.
To summarize: there is no evidence or mechanism for EUV producing any effects at the surface.
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 7, 2012 at 5:30 pm
The heating is not the issue and the experts who understand the physics perfectly tell us ozone in the mesosphere is charged by thermospheric atomic oxygen. EUV at 120nm is capable of oxygen photodissociation down to a height of 80km. The stratosphere makes up 9% of the atmosphere with the mesosphere making up 1% so the proportions are adequate. Baldwin believes the polar vortex is controlled by ozone changes in the mesosphere; many other experts show important downwelling changes in this area from above. It doesn’t matter how small you think these changes are, the experts think they are large enough to break up the polar vortex in the stratosphere, which in turn affects the troposphere. Everything is linked which you fail to see, or perhaps ignore, hoping to save some sort of face.
I have produced solid scientific evidence whereas you have provided rhetoric …time to give it up,
Geoff Sharp says:
January 7, 2012 at 8:02 pm
the experts think they are large enough to break up the polar vortex in the stratosphere, which in turn affects the troposphere.
Repeating yourself does you no good. The polar vortex is destroyed by steepening Rossby waves traveling up from the troposphere: http://www.vets.ucar.edu/vg/PV2/index.shtml
oxygen photo dissociation does not need EUV. Ordinary UV between 120 and 240 nm [of which there is a thousand times more than of EUV] is good enough.
You are trying to tell the folks that 3000 atoms of atomic oxygen moving down from the thermosphere create a quadrillion molecules of ozone in the stratosphere. That you can believe such is telling, but expected, of course. A pity that you tale upon yourself to pollute WUWT with such nonsense.
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 7, 2012 at 9:17 pm
The polar vortex is destroyed by steepening Rossby waves traveling up from the troposphere: http://www.vets.ucar.edu/vg/PV2/index.shtml
And Baldwin suggests the Rossby or planetary waves are further enhanced because of changes in the mesosphere. But he is the expert in the QBO etc so perhaps would not have a clue.
oxygen photo dissociation does not need EUV. Ordinary UV between 120 and 240 nm [of which there is a thousand times more than of EUV] is good enough.
Photodissociation uses different wavelengths of the UV spectrum according to height and density. Your behavior on WUWT is well below par.
I have provided the evidence, I will leave it to others to make up their own mind. Any discourse with you is always a waste of time.
Geoff Sharp says:
January 7, 2012 at 8:02 pm
ozone in the mesosphere is charged by thermospheric atomic oxygen.
Regardless of that straw man, the ozone that is important is down at 40 km in the stratosphere where there is 10,000 times as much ozone as in the mesosphere. That ozone is formed in situ by UV, not EUV, and not formed from atomic oxygen down-welled from the thermosphere. A simple way of seeing this is that the EUV changes by 100% over the cycle, while the ozone in the ozone layer does not. This is the main point.
Gneiss: In your January 6, 2012 at 8:10 am comment you quoted my update 2, in which I stated, “First, I did not understand that a ‘linear time trend’ used by Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) is different than a ‘linear trend’.”
And you replied, “No, they are the same thing. What you did/do not understand is the difference between regression coefficients and regression predicted values, both of which accompany any kind of regression. You believed ‘include a linear trend’ means ‘include predicted values from the regression of y on time among the predictors of y,’ when it actually just means ‘include time as a predictor of y.’”
Gneiss, thank you for confirming they are different. In the paper, Foster and Rahmsorf (2011) used “linear trends” for comparisons of the rates at which the surface temperature and lower troposphere temperature anomalies warmed. And in the paper, Foster and Rahmsorf (2011) used “linear trends” differently; they used it in their regression analyses, to quote you, to “include time as a predictor of y.”
Gneiss says:
January 6, 2012 at 3:59 pm
phlogiston writes,
“One question here appears (incredibly) to be – is the ENSO a mathematical artifact (the AGW position) or is it an actual physical process.”
Where have you seen that “AGW position”? I don’t speak anybody’s position but I haven’t heard any scientists claiming ENSO is a mathematical artifact, it’s obviously physical.
OK a bit of an exaggeration for rhetoric effect.
One point of confusion is the word “oscillation,” which to some people means a regular, predictable cycle but to others means approximately “sometimes it’s one way, sometimes it’s the other.” There’s a “quasi-periodic oscillation” term which also attends this.
You have an important point here, oscillations can be non regular but still arise from a physical oscillatory process, such as a nonlinear one. The planetary brigade here at WUWT assert that climatic variations can be pinned to some combination or derivative or solar, planetary-gravitational or other astrophysical forcings – such as orbit of the solar center of mass relative to the sub-Jupiter point and so on. They have an important contribution to make but what might ultimately frustrate such a search is if the nonlinear nature of the oscillatory climate system is such that the emergent frequencies are different from the forcing frequencies – and are variable. The PDO for instance is observed to have a wavelength of about 60 years for the last couple of waves but there is palaeo evidence that in the past the PDO wavelength has been different.
There are 2 kinds of nonlinear oscillator, those with their own intrinsic frequency, and those that are periodically forced by an external factor. The metazoan heart-beat that I referred to above is a good example of an unforced oscillator. it is nonlinear, but is driven by strong positive feedbacks which result in a regular monotinic pulse (just as well for the organism). The second type of nonlinearr oscillators are periodically forced from outside. The heart beat can fall into this category also – if a pace-maker is applied then it becomes periodically forced. Periodically forced oscillators are in turn of two types – strongly forced and weakly forced. A heart with a pacemaker is a strongly forced oscillator. However my own hunch is that global oceanic and climatic systems are of the other type – weakly periodically forced nonlinear oscillators. In this case the emergent or responsive frequency can be a complex function of the forcing frequency and thus hard to relate to the forcing frequency.
My own party-piece in this debate is to apply the analogy of one of the standard experimental models of nonlinear oscillators, the BZ reactor (Belousov-Zhabotinsky reactor). Reasons for using the BZ reactor as an analogy for the ENSO were described in a post last year:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/25/is-the-enso-a-nonlinear-oscillator-of-the-belousov-zhabotinsky-reaction-type/
Note in particular the reference by Anna Lin on weakly forced oscillators:
Resonance tongues and patterns in periodically forced reaction-diffusion systems. Anna Lin et al., DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevE.69.066217, Cite as: arXiv:nlin/0401031v1 [nlin.PS].