The Texas ENSO Bassmaster Classic

A bit of a tiff developed over at Dr. Roger Pielke’s place over disagreements on the recent Texas heatwave being attributed to AGW or to ENSO. Bob Tisdale has something to say about that. Bob writes:

“In one email, Roger referred to my post about how poorly the new NCAR model hindcasts certain temperature indices, including ENSO, and Nelsen-Gammon’s decided to call my discussion about ENSO a red herring. Little does he know, I have observation-based data to back my claims.”

A Texan ENSO fishing in the Pacific - using the correct tackle is important - wow those fish can jump!

John Nielsen-Gammon Comments Regarding Climate Models And The Process Of El Niño-Southern Oscillation

by Bob Tisdale

INTRODUCTION

I can see no basis for John Nielsen-Gammon’s attempt to attribute the record high temperatures in Texas to the hypothesis of Anthropogenic Global Warming. It appears that Nielsen-Gammon, like the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), relies on climate models to conclude that most of the rise in Surface Temperatures, globally and regionally, is caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gases. Unfortunately, their reliance on models to support that hypothesis is unfounded. The climate models show little to no skill at hindcasting past global and regional natural variations in Sea Surface Temperature, which, through coupled ocean-atmospheric processes, would have impacts on the temperature and drought in Texas. Since the climate models are incapable of replicating the natural modes of multiyear and multidecadal variability in Sea Surface Temperatures, the models are of little value as tools to determine if the warming could be attributed to manmade or natural causes, and they are of little value as tools to project future climate on global or regional bases.

And based on John Nielsen-Gammon’s comment about El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO), it appears he has overlooked the significant contribution ENSO can make to the multiyear and multidecadal variations in Global Sea Surface Temperature anomalies, which are so obvious during the satellite-era of Sea Surface Temperature observations.

BACKGROUND

Roger Pielke Sr., has published at his blog a series of emails between he and John Nielsen-Gammon. Roger’s post is dated November 10, 2011 and is titled John Nielsen-Gammon and I Continue Our Discission. Pielke Sr.’s initial post on this topic, dated November 4, 2011, is titled NBC Nightly News Regarding The Recent October Snowstorm And A Quote From John Nielsen-Gammon. In it, Pielke Sr. refers to Nielsen-Gammon’s September 9, 2011 blog post at the Houston Chronicle website Chron.com titled Texas Drought and Global Warming. All three posts are worth a read and provide the fuel for this post.

In one of the emails reproduced in his recent post, Roger Pielke Sr. provided Nielsen-Gammon with a link to my November 4, 2011 post An Initial Look At The Hindcasts Of The NCAR CCSM4 Coupled Climate Model. (Please read this post also, if you haven’t done so already. It shows how poorly the recent version of the NCAR CCSM coupled climate model replicates the surface temperatures from 1900 to 2005.) And Nielsen-Gammon’s response to it included:

“When driven by observed oceanic variability, the models do a great job simulating the atmospheric response.  With the present drought, it’s not a matter of predicting the oceans and atmosphere.  We know the present ocean temperature patterns, so we can estimate their contribution very well from both observations and models.  The models’ difficulty in simulating the statistics of ENSO itself is a red herring.”

First, I have no basis from which to dispute Nielsen-Gammon’s opening sentence of, “When driven by observed oceanic variability, the models do a great job simulating the atmospheric response”.  I have not investigated how well the models actually perform this function. But that’s neither here nor there. Why? Well, if the hindcast and projected representations of sea surface temperatures created by the models are not realistic, then the atmospheric response to the modeled oceanic variability would also fail to be realistic.

Second, Nielsen-Gammon wrote, “We know the present ocean temperature patterns, so we can estimate their contribution very well from both observations and models.” Nielsen-Gammon’s sentence does not state that the models provide a reasonable representation of ocean variability. So the fact that Nielsen-Gammon can estimate the oceanic contributions from observations AND from models is immaterial. The models are so far from reality, they have little value as climate hindcasting, or projection, or attribution tools, as stated previously.

Also, if you’re new to the subject of climate change, always keep in mind, when you read a climate change post like John Nielsen-Gammon’s, where the author constantly refers to models and model-based studies (in an attempt to add credibility to the post?), that it may not be the same climate model being referred to. Models have strengths and weaknesses, and climate scientists use different models for different studies. Depending on the coupled ocean-atmosphere process being studied, even if one organization’s model is used, model parameters may be set differently, they may be initialized differently, they may use different forcings, etc. So, while two model-based climate studies may use the same model, the model runs used to study the atmospheric response to the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, for example, may not incorporate the same forcings that are used to hindcast past climate and project future climate. In fact, there are model-based studies where observed Sea Surface Temperature data are used to force the climate models.

MORE EXAMPLES OF HOW POORLY CLIMATE MODELS DEPICT SEA SURFACE TEMPERATURE VARIATIONS

In addition to the post linked earlier in which I compared climate model outputs to observed data, I have also illustrated and discussed in detail the differences between the observed sea surface temperature anomalies and those hindcast/projected by climate models in the two posts titled:

Part 1 – Satellite-Era Sea Surface Temperature Versus IPCC Hindcast/Projections

AND:

Part 2 – Satellite-Era Sea Surface Temperature Versus IPCC Hindcast/Projections.

In those posts, I showed the very obvious differences between observed Sea Surface Temperature data and the model mean of the climate models used in the IPCC AR4 on global and ocean-basin bases, during the satellite-era of sea surface temperature measurement, 1982 to present. Here are a few examples:

Figure 1 is a time-series graph of the satellite-based observations of Global Sea Surface Temperatures versus the model mean of the hindcasts/projections made by the climate models used in the IPCC AR4. It shows how poorly the linear trend of the model mean compares to the trend for the measured Global Sea Surface Temperature anomalies. The models overestimate the warming by approximately 50%.

Figure 1

Figure 2 compares the linear trends for the observations and the model mean of the IPCC AR4 hindcasts/projections of Sea Surface Temperatures on a zonal mean basis. That is, it compares, for the period of January 1982 to February 2011, the modeled and observed linear trends, in 5-degree-latitude bands (80S-75S, then 75S-70S, etc., from pole to pole) from the Southern Ocean around Antarctica north through to the Arctic Ocean. It clearly shows that, in the models, the tropics warm faster than at higher latitudes, where in reality, that is clearly not the case. This implies that the models do an extremely poor job of simulating how the oceans distribute warm water from the tropics toward the poles. Extremely poor.

Figure 2

In those two posts, I not only illustrate the failings of the models on a Global basis, but I also illustrate them on an ocean-basin basis: North and South Pacific, East and West Pacific, North and South Atlantic and Indian Ocean. There are no subsets of the models that come close to the observations on a time-series basis and on a zonal-mean basis.

ON ATTRIBUTION

John Nielsen-Gammon notes in his article, after he changed attribution from “greenhouse gases” to “global warming”, that:

The IPCC has not estimated the total century-scale contribution to global warming from anthropogenic greenhouse gases, but has said that the warming since 1950 was probably mostly anthropogenic.  So it seems reasonable to estimate that somewhere around two-thirds of the century-scale trend is due to anthropogenic greenhouse gas increases. That is to say, the summer temperatures would have been about one or one and a half degrees cooler one half to one degree cooler without the increases in CO2 and other greenhouse gases. [John Nielsen-Gammon’s boldface and strikes.]

I cannot see how Nielsen-Gammon can make that claim when the IPCC’s model depictions of sea surface temperature variability over the past 30 years, which are coupled to global and regional variations in temperature and precipitation, differ so greatly from the observations. I truly cannot. The models are so different from observations that they have no value as an attribution tool. None whatsoever.

ON ENSO BEING A RED HERRING

The last sentence in the first quote from John Nielsen-Gammon above reads, “The models’ difficulty in simulating the statistics of ENSO itself is a red herring.” As a reference, Animation 1, is the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO)-related comparison from my post that Roger Pielke Sr. linked for Nielsen-Gammon (An Initial Look At The Hindcasts Of The NCAR CCSM4 Coupled Climate Model).It shows how poorly the models hindcast the frequency, magnitude, and trend of ENSO events. In that post, I explained why the failure of climate models to reproduce the frequency and magnitude of ENSO events was important. Yet John Nielsen-Gammon characterized my illustrations and discussion as a “red herring”.

Animation 1

Here’s what I wrote, in part, about Animation 1:

The first thing that’s obviously different is that the frequency and magnitude of El Niño and La Niña events of the individual ensemble members do not come close to matching those observed in the instrument temperature record. Should they? Yes. During a given time period, it is the frequency and magnitude of ENSO events that determines how often and how much heat is released by the tropical Pacific into the atmosphere during El Niño events, how much Downward Shortwave Radiation (visible sunlight) is made available to warm “and recharge” the tropical Pacific during La Niña events, and how much heat is transported poleward in the atmosphere and oceans, some of it for secondary release from the oceans during some La Niña events. If the models do not provide a reasonable facsimile of the strength and frequency of El Niño and La Niña events during given epochs, the modelers have no means of reproducing the true causes of the multiyear/multidecade rises and falls of the surface temperature anomalies. The frequency and magnitude of El Niño and La Niña events contribute to the long-term rises and falls in global surface temperature.

My illustrations and discussions of ENSO in that post are not intended to divert anyone’s attention from the actual cause of the rise in global temperatures, which is what I assume John Nielsen-Gammon intended with the “red herring” remark. The frequency and magnitude of ENSO events are the very obvious cause of the rise in Sea Surface Temperatures during the satellite era. And that isn’t a far-fetched hypothesis; that is precisely the tale told by the sea surface temperature data itself. One simply has to divide the data into logical subsets to illustrate it, and it is so obvious once you know it exists that it is hard to believe that it continues to be overlooked by some members of the climate science community.

Recently I started including two illustrations of ENSO’s effect on Sea Surface Temperatures in each of my monthly Sea Surface Temperature anomaly updates. (Example post: October 2011 Sea Surface Temperature (SST) Anomaly Update) Refer to the graphs of the “volcano-adjusted” East Pacific Sea Surface Temperature anomalies and of the Sea Surface Temperature anomalies for the Rest of the World. I’ve reposted them here as Figures 3 and 4, respectively.

Note Regarding Volcano Adjustment: I described the method used to determine the volcano adjustment in the post Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies – East Pacific Versus The Rest Of The World, where I first illustrated these two datasets. The description reads:

To determine the scaling factor for the volcanic aerosol proxy, I used a linear regression software tool (Analyse-it for Excel) with global SST anomalies as the dependent variable and GISS Stratospheric Aerosol Optical Thickness data (ASCII data) as the independent variable. The scaling factor determined was 1.431. This equals a global SST anomaly impact of approximately 0.2 deg C for the 1991 Mount Pinatubo eruption.

Back to the discussion of the volcano-adjusted East Pacific and Rest-of-the-World data: Let’s discuss the East Pacific data first. As you’ll quickly note in Figure 3, based on the linear trend produced by EXCEL, there has been no rise in the Sea Surface anomalies for the volcano-adjusted East Pacific Ocean Sea Surface Temperature anomaly data, pole to pole, or the coordinates of 90S-90N, 180-80W, for about the past 30 years. The El Niño events and La Niña events dominate the year-to-year variations, as one would expect, but the overall trend is slightly negative. The East Pacific Ocean dataset represents about 33% of the surface area of the global oceans, and there hasn’t been a rise in sea surface temperature anomalies there for three decades.

Figure 3

Since we’ve already established that Global Sea Surface Temperature observations have risen during that period (Refer back to the observation-based data in Figure 1), that means the Rest-of-the-World data is responsible for the rise in global Sea Surface Temperature anomalies. But as you’ll note in Figure 4, the volcano-adjusted Sea Surface Temperature anomalies for the Rest of the World (90S-90N, 80W-180) rise in very clear steps, and that those rises are in response to the significant 1986/87/88 and 1997/98 El Niño/La Niña events. (It also appears as though the Sea Surface Temperature anomalies of this dataset are making another upward shift in response to the 2009/10 El Niño and 2010/11 La Niña.) And between those steps, the Rest-of-the World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies remain relatively flat. How flat will be illustrated shortly.

Figure 4

Note: The periods used for the average Rest-Of-The-World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies between the significant El Niño events of 1982/83, 1986/87/88, 1997/98, and 2009/10 are determined as follows. Using the NOAA Oceanic Nino Index(ONI) for the official months of those El Niño events, I shifted (lagged) those El Niño periods by six months to accommodate the lag between NINO3.4 SST anomalies and the response of the Rest-Of-The-World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies, then deleted the Rest-Of-The-World data that corresponds to those significant El Niño events. I then averaged the Rest-Of-The-World SST anomalies between those El Niño-related gaps.

I have in numerous posts discussed, illustrated, and animated the variables associated with the coupled ocean-atmosphere process of El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) that cause these apparent upward shifts in the Rest-of-the-World Sea Surface Temperature anomalies. My first posts on this were in January 2009. The most recent ones are from the July 2011: ENSO Indices Do Not Represent The Process Of ENSO Or Its Impact On Global Temperature and Supplement To “ENSO Indices Do Not Represent The Process Of ENSO Or Its Impact On Global Temperature”.Those two posts were written at an introductory level for those who aren’t familiar with the process of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO). In the initial post, I further illustrated the actual linear trends of the Rest-of-the-World data between the significant ENSO events, reproduced here as Figure 5. They are indeed flat.

Figure 5

And in the supplemental post, I further subdivided the Rest-of-the-World Sea Surface Temperature data into two more subsets. The first to be illustrated, Figure 6, covers the South Atlantic, Indian and West Pacific Oceans. As shown, Sea Surface Temperature anomalies decay between the significant ENSO events, just as one would expect.

Figure 6

And for the North Atlantic, Figure 7, which is impacted by another mode of natural variability called the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), the linear trends between those significant ENSO events are slightly positive, also as one would expect. And the short-term ENSO-induced upward shifts are plainly visible in Figure 7 and are responsible for a significant portion of the rise in North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature anomalies over the past 30 years.

Figure 7

CLOSING

This post clearly illustrates that John Nielsen-Gammon failed to consider that climate models prepared for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) AR4 have little to no basis in reality. When one considers the significant differences between the observed Sea Surface Temperature anomaly variations and those hindcast/projected by climate models, the models provide no support for his conclusion that most of the rise in Surface Temperatures, globally and regionally, was caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gases.

This post also clearly illustrated that “The models’ difficulty in simulating the statistics of ENSO itself is”…NOT…“a red herring.” The process of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation was responsible for most of the rise in global sea surface temperature anomalies over the past thirty years.

SOURCES

For the sources of data presented in this post, refer to the linked posts from which the graphs were borrowed.

ABOUT: Bob Tisdale – Climate Observations

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Bill H
November 12, 2011 10:34 am

Now this is an excellent post!..
Suicide by Model…
CAGW… the lie that is endangering millions…

DirkH
November 12, 2011 10:38 am

Thanks a lot for your outstanding work, Bob.
Fig. 1 is great! I guess the modelers are very proud of being able to get the dent from Mt. Pinatubo after 1991 right… but everything else is wrong again…
I think we see a growing tendency to improve the correlation by adjusting the past temperature record, rather than improving the models – as they’re getting bigger and bigger, complexity grows exponentially. So it becomes easier to pay a guy like Hansen to silence the data.
And as if by magic, it looks like the model should correlate much better with GISTEMP (hope I got the right time series there):
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp-dts/from:1979/mean:3/plot/uah/mean:3

November 12, 2011 10:48 am

… we didn’t have the usual steady wind from the south … more like southwest which means hot and dry – which it was …
‘splain that please.
PS. Living and observed from the DFW area.
.

Stephen Wilde
November 12, 2011 11:37 am

“The process of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation was responsible for most of the rise in global sea surface temperature anomalies over the past thirty years.”
Precisely, so we then have to consider where that oceanic warmth came from given that at the same time there was a 30 year run of strong El Ninos.
El Nino should be a discharge phase for energy from the ocean whereby the energy from the oceans warms the troposphere. I agree wholeheartedly with Bob on that. However that should result in a decline in ocean heat content but that did not happen. Ocean heat content continued to rise despite the run of strong El Ninos so what is really going on ?
AGW proponents would presumably aver that it was due to more human CO2 emissions warming the air that warmed the oceans but that could never have transferred so much energy from air to water so fast because the thermal capacity of water is some 1000 times greater than that of air. It would take millennia for warmer air to transfer sufficient energy to the oceans to produce the observed outcome.
As it happens global cloudiness decreased over the period and the surface air pressure distribution moved poleward with a widening of the equatorial air masses leaving more equatorial oceans cloud free.
There is the answer. More solar energy getting into the oceans to fuel BOTH stronger El Ninos and an increase in ocean heat content. Indeed the increase in ocean heat content is what fuelled the increase in dominance of El Nino over La Nina.
Since about 2000 cloudiness has increased, El Nino strength relative to La Nina has begun to decline and the rise in tropospheric temperatures has at least stopped and may be about to change to a falling trend. The surface pressure distribution is moving back equatorward as evidenced by all the recent reports of negative polar oscillations and more meridional mid latitude jets.
The change in trend was coincident with the decline in solar activity from the peak f cycle 23.
How much more obvious does it need to be ?
Keep it simple. The shifting climate zones have made fools of climatologists.
There has been no change in system energy content, hence Trenberth’s missing heat. Instead we just see a change in the distribution of thermal energy at the surface in response to a change in the rate of flow of solar energy through the system and out to space.
Our surface sensors simply record the rate of flow of energy past them and are therefore not representative of any change in total system energy content. More equatorial winds flowing poleward will result in higher recorded temperatures and more polar winds flowing equatorward will result in lower recorded temperatures. Either way there need be no change in overall system energy content.
That is why the satellite sensors show a much reduced variability.
Even the satellite sensors do not reflect any change in total system energy content. When the system tries to gain energy the outward flow just increases to eliminate the gain and the satellites record more outgoing longwave. When the system tries to lose energy the outward flow decreases in an attempt to cancel out the loss and the satellites record less outgoing longwave.The satellites are not necessarily recording any change in system energy content merely a change in the rate of energy flow past them at a given moment in a given location.
All that the satellites do is record the varying rate of energy outflow as the system constantly adjusts the rate of energy flow to maintain equilibrium.
That is why the Earth’s total energy content is now little different from that which obtained several billion years ago at the time of the so called faint sun when the sun was some 30% less powerful than today.
Are there any serious objections to that scenario ?

petermue
November 12, 2011 11:50 am

Sheehy
It’s the sun, st… oops… Ross 🙂
http://www.john-daly.com/sun-enso/sun-enso.htm
(Maybe M.A. Vukcevic or Volker Doormann can give a more extended explanation)

Ex-Wx Forecaster
November 12, 2011 12:00 pm

Yes, but, as the IPCC has noted, their idea of climate science “isn’t quite empirical”.
So, they won’t care how many observations you have to support your ideas. Only their models count.

Editor
November 12, 2011 12:05 pm

Stephen Wilde says: “Precisely, so we then have to consider where that oceanic warmth came from given that at the same time there was a 30 year run of strong El Ninos.”
That’s as far as I got in your comment, Stephen, because, using Tropical Pacific Ocean Heat Content data, it’s already been explained. Start with the 1973/74/75/76 La Nina.
http://i52.tinypic.com/4i0d8g.jpg
That multiyear La Nina established the “base” of warm water. The coming El Nino events depleted part of it, and the subsequent La Nina events replaced even less. So there was a long-term decay until the freakish 1995/96 La Nina, which established the fuel for the 1997/98 El Nino. Then the 1998/99/00/01 La Nina recharged the OHC discharged during the 1997/98 El Nino.
Now I know you have an aversion to data, but using data, do you have another explanation?
The tropical Pacific OHC graph is from the most recent OHC update:
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/april-to-june-2011-nodc-ocean-heat-content-anomalies-0-700meters-update-and-comments/

Bill H
November 12, 2011 12:16 pm

Stephen Wilde says:
November 12, 2011 at 11:37 am
Excellent analysis Stephen. A very easily followed systemic approach. One that GCR’s and Gama radiation entering the atmosphere would cause the greatest changes.. Again the sun and its magnetic waves control the overall cloud cover. Hence the major changes allowing warming or cooling.
I think that someone once said… its the sun stupid!
Bill

KnR
November 12, 2011 12:18 pm

Rule one of climate science: if reality and the models disagree its reality which is wrong .

Kelvin Vaughan
November 12, 2011 12:20 pm

Nothing ever changes

Robw
November 12, 2011 12:23 pm

But Dr. Tisdale
Postmodern “science” has models=data. If real observation, previously referred to as data, does not agree with the model then the real world observations are wrong and need adjustments.
I hope I cleared things up for you. 😉

Bill Illis
November 12, 2011 12:30 pm

Good post Bob.
I might adjust the ocean SSTs in a little different way for the volcanoes (assuming they were temporarily reduced by 0.2C to 0.25C in the two big eruptions). Putting this temporary reduction back in, then provides a more stable (lower than current) trend and a more closer relationship to the ENSO (possibly without the step changes).
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5532/reynoldsv2sstvolcanoadj.png
In any event, if the climate models cannot simulate / do not reproduce the ENSO, then they are not anywhere close to reality because it is clearly a large component of the trends and the variability.

Editor
November 12, 2011 12:30 pm

Ross Sheehy says: “Is there any credible research into what causes the El Nino/La Nina phenomena?”
It depends on what level you’re looking for. If you’re looking at introductory explanations of the process, Bill Kessler of NOAA has a excellent description:
http://faculty.washington.edu/kessler/occasionally-asked-questions.html
And my Introduction to ENSO is better illustrated:
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/an-introduction-to-enso-amo-and-pdo-%e2%80%93-part-1/
If you’re looking for scientific explanations, a few were mentioned in the closing paragraph (57) of Giese and Ray 2011. (I read it this week, which is why I’m referring to it):
http://soda.tamu.edu/documents/2011_JGR_Giese_Ray.pdf
You could start with the references they provided and expand from there, since papers many times include alternate explanations. I think you’ll find that there are about a half dozen competing explanations.

Stephen Wilde
November 12, 2011 12:38 pm

Yes Bob, I know all that, but where do you think the high rate of recharge came from during those La Ninas?
The sun was active, the jets moved poleward, the equatorial air masses expanded with more solar input to the oceans so overall the strength of El Ninos increased over the period relative to La Ninas.
My concept is identical to yours save that I go one step further to the ultimate energy source.
I am not averse to data,Tha data one needs is very simple and I have set it out. More active sun, more poleward jets, less global cloudiness, more solar input to the oceans, faster recharge during La Nina, increasing ocean heat content despite historically powerful El Ninos.
All that is data. No need to get bogged down in minutiae.

Stephen Wilde
November 12, 2011 12:48 pm

Bill H says:
November 12, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Stephen Wilde says:
November 12, 2011 at 11:37 am
“Excellent analysis Stephen. A very easily followed systemic approach. One that GCR’s and Gama radiation entering the atmosphere would cause the greatest changes.. Again the sun and its magnetic waves control the overall cloud cover. Hence the major changes allowing warming or cooling.”
Thanks Bill, but I disagree on one point. I don’t see how cosmic ray variations could plausibly alter the surface air circulation in the way that we observe.
I favour solar induced changes in the vertical temperature profile at the poles caused by chemical processes involving ozone and with different effects at different levels.
I particularly note the comments by Joanna Haigh in connection with the unexpected finding that ozone above 45km INCREASED at a time of less active sun. I am awaiting further data on that point.

Stephen Wilde
November 12, 2011 12:53 pm

“Ross Sheehy says: “Is there any credible research into what causes the El Nino/La Nina phenomena?”
Well there is that link that Bob referred you to but it refers to a chicken and egg problem and just leaves it hanging.
I have created a new concept to account for it as follows:
Due to the ITCZ having a mean position north of the equator there is an imbalance of solar energy input either side of the equator. Over time that imbalance builds up and periodically results in a pulse of energy discharging across the equator from the southern hemisphere in the ENSO pattern we observe.
I think the surface pressure distribution and thus the winds change as a result of the SST changes so that resolves the chicken and egg problem.
Keep it simple.

Editor
November 12, 2011 1:21 pm

Stephen Wilde says: “Yes Bob, I know all that, but where do you think the high rate of recharge came from during those La Ninas?” And you continued, “The sun was active…”
During the 1973/74/75/76 La Nina the Solar Cycle was dropping from Solar Cycle 20, which looks like an average cycle in magnitude. The 1995/96 La Nina occurred toward Solar Minimum at the end of SC22. Those are not “active” periods in anyone’s imagination. Your explanation needs some work, Stephen.
Regards

Stephen Wilde
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
November 12, 2011 1:40 pm

“Those are not “active” periods in anyone’s imagination. ”
Cycle 20 was an average (ish) cycle amongst a series of above average cycles.
My explanation stands.
The relevant timescale is 1000 years peak to peak as from MWP through LIA to date. Taking the 30 year period as a whole my account is the only one that fits the observations.

Editor
November 12, 2011 1:25 pm

Robw says: “But Dr. Tisdale…”
Robw, there’s no Dr. in front of my last name. Only my first name Bob.

John Trigge
November 12, 2011 1:35 pm

From http://blog.chron.com/climateabyss/2011/09/texas-drought-and-global-warming/ (my bold):
‘The general model consensus is that precipitation is likely to decrease a bit, but it’s not a sure thing. Some models at one extreme have precipitation increasing across Texas, while others have a substantial decrease.’ and
‘Models have varying degrees of success in even being able to produce a La Niña, and changes are not consistent among models.’
This appears to lend credence to Bob’s statement ‘it may not be the same climate model being referred to.’ and makes me (a non-scientist but an interested party due to Australia’s carbon tax) wonder why models are so often touted as ‘proof’ of AGW.

Stephen Wilde
November 12, 2011 1:45 pm

Bob, your comment, which I agreed with, referred to a 30 year period and it is the entire 30 year period that I was describing.
You then switched to a couple of short lived La Nina spells during cycle 20 in a determined effort to disagree.
I don’t think your reactions to my contributions are logical.

November 12, 2011 1:53 pm

“That multiyear La Nina established the “base” of warm water. The coming El Nino events depleted part of it, and the subsequent La Nina events replaced even less. So there was a long-term decay until the freakish 1995/96 La Nina, which established the fuel for the 1997/98 El Nino. Then the 1998/99/00/01 La Nina recharged the OHC discharged during the 1997/98 El Nino.”
Yep, clear as crystal.
During the present double-la-Nina the Pacific is recharging for a new El Nino. The longer la Nina lasts, the hotter El Nino will be.

Theo Goodwin
November 12, 2011 1:55 pm

Yet another brilliant, glorious post from Bob Tisdale. Everyone should save this one.
Tisdale writes:
“This post also clearly illustrated that “The models’ difficulty in simulating the statistics of ENSO itself is”…NOT…“a red herring.” The process of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation was responsible for most of the rise in global sea surface temperature anomalies over the past thirty years.”
Of course, Nielsen-Gammon thinks that ENSO is a Red Herring. Warmista do not do natural processes unless they can be treated as statistical noise or epiphenomena of radiation.
The entire approach to climate based on computer models is not just wrong but wrong-headed. It will never lead scientists to empirical reality. It should be abandoned except for analytic purposes.
I believe that Bob Tisdale’s contributions to climate science over the last three years are far and away the most important contributions by anyone writing about climate science. He deserves all the big prizes.

Theo Goodwin
November 12, 2011 1:59 pm

Stephen Wilde says:
November 12, 2011 at 12:53 pm
“Ross Sheehy says: “Is there any credible research into what causes the El Nino/La Nina phenomena?”
Do you mean credible empirical research? Research that might lead to reasonably well-confirmed physical hypotheses that can explain and predict ENSO behavior?
The answer is a shameful, flat-out No. Our government does not fund actual empirical research into climate phenomena. It funds only computer model fantasies, paleo-fantasies, and statistical magic tricks.

Jer0me
November 12, 2011 2:06 pm

Bob Tisdale says:
November 12, 2011 at 1:25 pm

Robw says: “But Dr. Tisdale…”
Robw, there’s no Dr. in front of my last name. Only my first name Bob.

I’m not sure. How about an honorary WUWT doctorate?

Bill H
November 12, 2011 2:17 pm

Stephen Wilde says:
November 12, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Interesting note is solar wind also thins the polar region atmospheres. thus black body radiation is increased. My point with GCR’s is simple. The ionization process is one that can change global cloud cover by 3% in hours, not days… Thus if the solar wind is high global cloud cover will reduce and allow day time heating of the oceans. During times of solar low the reverse is true.
When you add that the polar regions are allowing greater amounts of heat to escape and increased cloud cover reducing day time warming of the oceans it becomes clear in short order that the two in conjunction will have a significant effect on not only polar jets and their width but the amount of heat the oceans equatorial can contribute.. La Nina is the shut down of heat output to conserve ocean temp. not unexpected in times of low solar output and reduced Heat absorption on the earths surface.
IMHO it is quite possible for the low output of the sun to cause all of which your premise states.
Bill

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