Steve McIntyre writes about what many of us have been thinking about Penn State’s failures at investigating its own, such as the appearance of a whitewash investigation done about Dr. Michael Mann and Climategate. He writes:
On the same day that Nature published yet another editorial repudiating public examination of the conduct of academic institutions, Penn State President Graham Spanier was fired from his $813,000/year job for failing to ensure that a proper investigation was carried out in respect to pedophilia allegations in Penn State’s hugely profitable football program. The story is receiving massive coverage in North America because the iconic Penn State football coach, Joe Paterno, was also fired today.
CA readers are aware of Spanier’s failure to ensure proper investigation of Climategate emails and his untrue puffs about the ineffective Penn State Inquiry Committee, reported at CA here and by the the Penn State Collegian as follows:
…
Spanier was fired not because of any personal role in the Sandusky football scandal, but because of negligence on his part in ensuring that the allegations were properly investigated. This was not the only case in which Spanier failed to ensure proper investigation of misconduct allegations. As noted above, Spanier had falsely reported to the Penn State trustees and the public that the Penn State Inquiry Committee had properly interviewed critics and had examined the Climategate documents and issues “from all sides”.
Full story here
@ur momisugly Paul Hull,
I disagree with the premise that religion causes mental harm. It actually turns out to be quite the opposite, which exposes the rest of Dawkins’ article as nothing more than his wishes, not to be based in fact.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/x5855kq526073212/
We are, however, in agreement that Tucci is clearly in need of a sabbatical or counseling.
Now listen up, Deniers !
Sandusky did to young boys what Mann did to the Truth.
Michael J says:
November 11, 2011 at 7:03 am
You obviously didn’t read my post, which was primarily against Penn State and their inability to police themselves. They only use Mann and football as trinkets to get more money.
So your objections are baseless. Please go read my post again wherein I said:
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
When good men do nothing, they get nothing good done. To be good, one must do good.
It would be helpful if Tucci and everyone would tone down the rhetoric a little. The only thing I can add is from personal experience. I was a childhood victim on a single instance. I can say with no doubt that it had little effect on my life. It had absolutely no lasting effect on me. Now, I wonder how I would have handled it if I was repeatedly told I should be devastated? I’m sure glad I never was told anything like that.
I believe those who are subjected to continual abuse could certainly face a different result. Let’s not confuse these two different circumstances.
TimH says: November 11, 2011 at 4:48 am
“I don’t think we’ve heard the last of either scandal. When someone shows such gross negligence, perhaps even willful deceipt, all prior actions should be investigated.”
I agree. I would put it this way.
Isn’t it true that (a) when a man is convicted of a crime based on evidence collected by the police, and (b) subsequent to that conviction it is proven that one or more policemen planted evidence critical to the guilty verdict, then other convictions that relied on evidence collected by the disgraced policemen are reviewed with the possible result that a new trial is given to many of the convicted?
I know that in criminal procedures the procecution doesn’t get a “second bite at the apple”–i.e., once a not quilty verdict is rendered, the accused cannot be retried. However, in Dr. Mann’s case, his “trial” was not in a criminal court, but rather in the court of public opinion. For public-opinion trials, is it not unreasonable to invert the process? That is, when a man is acquitted of potential wrong doing based on an investigation conducted by officials, and (b) subsequent to that acquittal it is proven that one or more of those officials ignored evidence critical to the not guilty verdict, then other acquittals that relied on evidence ignored by the disgraced officials should be reviewed with the possible result that a new trial is given to the acuitted?
Damn my “fat fingers”. “procecution” should be “prosecution” and “acuitted” should be “acquitted”.
Max Hugoson says:
November 11, 2011 at 6:31 am
“University of Pennsylvania, Class of ’76 says:
November 11, 2011 at 4:04 am
Chuck Nolan, this happened at PENN STATE, not UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA!”
U of Penn: I think I can help out. Think this menmonic: “PENN STATE – STATE PENN”. I’m sure this will help clarify matters.
Hey, Max – do you know what the difference is between Penn State and a State pen?
Answer: At a State pen, we know who the criminals are.
🙂
Peter Miller says:
November 11, 2011 at 5:59 am
Another instance of how integrity and grant funding have now almost become mutually exclusive.
It is definitely over the top to make an analogy between the overlooking of a heinous crime like paedophile rape and the distorted workings of a disreputable ‘scientist’…..
___________________________
No it is not over the top. How is the rape of one boy not equal to the burning death of another little boy?
Mann and his “Hockey Stick” are morally if not legally an accessory before the fact, of the death by burning of Friday Mukamperezida. He was burned to death when his village was set afire by “officials” clearing land for New Forest Company. A company in which Al Gore is president.
Remember Al Gore??? He is the one who used Mann’s Hockey Stick to scare the naive non-scientists half to death in his film “An Inconvenient Truth” and thereby keep CAGW alive and well politically.
The fact is that thousands if not millions of children under five died by starvation due to manipulation of the food supply. Hundreds of elderly in the UK died by hypothermia and other cold related complications due to heating fuel prices hikes. In Friday Mukamperezida case the death was at the hands of “Officials” clearing the indigenous people off their land due to New Forest Co. The fact these deaths were done at a distance does not mean those pulling the strings are not awash in the blood.
Oh and by the way US Universities also have a vested interest because they are investing their endowment funds in Africa land in the same manner that Al Gore is. Just think if you donate to an Alumni fund your dollar may be used to boot an African peasant off his land.
References:
http://www.redd-monitor.org/2011/09/23/ugandan-farmers-kicked-off-their-land-for-new-forests-companys-carbon-project/
University Land Grab: http://media.oaklandinstitute.org/us-universities-africa-land-grab-0
http://media.oaklandinstitute.org/land-deals-africa/featured-media
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/09/25/they-had-to-burn-the-village-to-save-it-from-global-warming/
UK Elderly die of cold: http://www.airandwatercentre.com/blog/331/fuel-poverty-and-cold-will-kill-more-elderly-people-in-the-uk-this-winter/
2008 food crisis:
Biofuels: http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2008/04/food-prices-lynas-biofuels
How Goldman gambled on starvation : http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-goldman-gambled-on-starvation-2016088.html
Death by starvation: Stats: http://www.globalissues.org/article/7/causes-of-hunger-are-related-to-poverty
“Your legal obligation IS to report crime. period.”
… but you see, the entire education establishment has been conditioned not to do this.
Just ask them what would they do if they found out there was an illegal alien in their classroom.
They make up their own rules as they see fit.
I agree entirely with Pam Gray. There is no moral equivalence between Mann’s control freak behavior and the monstrous crimes at Penn State. It might be argued that Mann’s boorish behaviour and lapses in professional ethics were enabled by the decadent culture of Happy Valley, but it is uncalled for to conflate his misguided efforts to to stifle debate with the unspeakable evil that taints the athletic program.
At 12:21 PM on 11 November, Richard M had written:
Sorry, Richard, but I don’t “tone down.” Might be a Sicilian thing, I suppose. Not that I give a damn. Arrant stupidity – particularly when it’s obviously the kind of crap that inflicts upon innocent people an increased likelihood of adverse clinical outcomes – tends to get my back up.
You might like to know that you’re far from being alone in your “personal experience.” Beyond what I’ve gotten of this subject in both clinical practice and conversations with colleagues confirming your conclusions, some decades ago, I came across David Niven‘s autobiography The Moon’s a Balloon (1971), in which he made casual and humorously dismissive mention of a solitary episode when, as a child at school, there had been a more senior boy who’d taken him out into the woods and performed some unspecified sexual act upon him, which he had neither enjoyed much nor claimed to have unduly distressed him. He said that he simply hadn’t seen much point to it.
Reading that bit was the first time I’d ever heard of the British public school ribaldry to the effect that “Little boys are half-a-crown / Standing up or bending down.”
The impression Niven gave in that autobiography and elsewhere subsequently gives support for the contention that he was much more severely traumatized by the physical and emotional punishment he suffered in the various schools to which he was sent before his parents entered him in Stowe School (to be educated under the supervision of a headmaster who provided the support as well as the structure he so desperately needed) and then got him into Sandhurst.
hswiseman says:
November 11, 2011 at 1:43 pm
I agree entirely with Pam Gray. There is no moral equivalence between Mann’s control freak behavior and the monstrous crimes at Penn State.
Agreed.
However, the apparent similar methodology of the institution’s cover-up or each situation is certainly worth comparison and discussion.
Dave Springer
Are you serious? What’s the banking industry like in Russia?
_______
The bankers in Russia are the same ones who are in the USA and the EU. Who the heck do you think FUNDED the revolution and kept Russia afloat???
Do not believe me???? Here it is straight from the horses mouth:
http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/jpmorgan/emea/local/ru
You can look up the Bolshevik revolution, Jacob Schiff, Max Warburg and the sealed gold train yourself. (Max Warburg was brother of Paul Warburg who wrote the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.)
Then check out page three of “Loans and legitimacy: the evolution of Soviet-American relations, 1919-1933”: http://books.google.com/books?id=zRtM5GhUpU0C&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=Herbert+Hoover+loans+soviet+Union&source=bl&ots=ThZsxIEXm7&sig=20H2zD-DWGI5HZyLAfP_NDOsJ7M&hl=en&ei=x5i9Tqf7BYmTtweBuIWqBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CHEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
More recently: http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb008.pdf
As far as Occupy Wall Street goes they are the typical puppets and can not see past the pap they are spoon fed.
As far as education goes, I recommend home schooling and tutor local kids for free.
You should look up John Dewey “Father of Progressive Education” by the way since you do not seem to have a grasp of the subject.
Oops – in my above post:
“…of each situation…”
Too late to give us that schlock, tucci.
By the by, you’ve already showed that a main concern of yours is the harsh, so unfair treatment of Joe P.and you’re just outraged.
Priorities, tucci.
At 2:29 PM on 11 November, corporate message had written (without specifying what the puck he means by “schlock:”
No, you friggin’ idiot. What I’ve objected to was the way in which the Penn State Board of Trustees undertook their “sh-t scraping” of Joe Paterno.
Who expects anything but “unfair” from people with a yen for positions of authority? “Sh-t scraping” is nothing more than institutional standard practice among such critters. Watch how our Mombasa Messiah “sh-t scrapes” Attorney General Eric Holder over Operation Fast and Furious and the Florida “Gunrunner” malfeasances.
I don’t give a damn about the football coach himself. Never did, never will. But given the “final drop dead” authority and responsibility of the Board of Trustees insofar as Penn State University is concerned (that good old “captain-of-the-ship principle”), their exquisitely inept way of handling the process of terminating the guy was demonstrative of the fact that not only is Happy Valley better off for the chucking-out of Graham Spanier but it would also be improved by the mass resignation of that whole damned Board of Trustees.
If Spanier’s handling of McQueary’s shower discovery – in 2002 – can be said to warrant the termination without notice of both Pateno and Spanier in 2011, then where’s the consequences for those Board of Trustees members who’ve been serving in those roles from 2002 to the present, or who participated in the decision to have Paterno phone in to get notified that he’d been chopped?
Er, corporate message? You got anything remotely resembling sense to post about the Penn State putzelry?
No?
Didn’t think so.
Tucci78 says:
November 11, 2011 at 10:22 am
“To get my respect – and the respect of anybody else who has actually been professionally responsible for helping real people survive the experience of child abuse – try coming up with reasoned argument on the subject. Otherwise, please join Mr. Hull and Jeremy in the “time out” corner.”
You’re an idiot.
Tucci78;
Sorry, Richard, but I don’t “tone down.” Might be a Sicilian thing, I suppose. Not that I give a damn. Arrant stupidity – particularly when it’s obviously the kind of crap that inflicts upon innocent people an increased likelihood of adverse clinical outcomes – tends to get my back up. >>>
I personally know several dozen people, many of whom have since passed on, but many who are alive, and many of whom are close relatives, who survived the concentration camps in WWII. They witnessed, many of them as children, the most unspeakable crimes that humans are capable of inflicting upon each other. Many of them were the subject of torture and abuse that one cannot read the record of without feeling sick to one’s stomach.
If I did not know them personally, I would have no idea. They somehow survived, started families and raised children, many became successful in academia and in business. On the outside, they seem competent and successful individuals and you might know them for years without suspecting the horrific memories that lurk at the backs of their minds. But for those of us who are family or close friends, we know that the shell of normalcy that they project to the world is in fact a thick hard shell that prevents their horrors on the inside from being seen by people on the outside. We marvel at their strength, though we know inside, despite their success and calm demeanor, they are damaged beyond repair in ways the rest of us can sense, but never actually understand or quantify.
You owe Pamela Gray an apology. If you have any actual concern for those who have suffered the most heinous crimes while still children, then you will display some sensitivity when commenting on the topic, both to those who merely study the matters in questions, and to those who may have personal experience that they speak from.
Gail Combs says:
November 11, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Good job; There’s a lot of important info in your post. However, I fear that the old addage never steal anything small is operative hear, and Mann will probably never have to pay for the harm that he has wrought in holding down impoverished people.
Tucci78 says:
November 11, 2011 at 1:50 pm
…I came across David Niven‘s autobiography The Moon’s a Balloon (1971)…
Really? I call you out on not having any support for your absurd position and you go with a forty year old book? There haven’t been any advances since then? I’ll leave aside that you cited one personal experience against another without considering differing personalities. You’re a fraud.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/10/mcintyre-on-the-penn-state-fiasco/#comment-794538
‘Corporate Message’ of that Mr Mann is scary:
Hands up anyone who says he is not lying – even a 5 year old can see this – and why is his body language obviously edited out?
I have not read all the above comments, forgive me if this has already been covered. But some here require mild correcting. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children. It is not illegal to be a pedophile, Child molestation is illegal, whether the perp is a pedophile, homosexual or heterosexual..
The Penn State bond rating is falling. Like an inverted hockey stick.
Penn State is more worried about the school, than education and the youths.
Follow the money.