The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project puts PR before peer review

UPDATE: see this new story

BEST: What I agree with and what I disagree with – plus a call for additional transparency to prevent “pal” review

=======================================================

Readers may recall this post last week where I complained about being put in a uncomfortable quandary by an author of a new paper. Despite that, I chose to honor the confidentiality request of the author Dr. Richard Muller, even though I knew that behind the scenes, they were planning a media blitz to MSM outlets. In the past few days I have been contacted by James Astill of the Economist, Ian Sample of the Guardian, and Leslie Kaufman of the New York Times. They have all contacted me regarding the release of papers from BEST today.

There’s only one problem: Not one of the BEST papers have completed peer review.

Nor has one has been published in a journal to my knowledge, nor is the one paper I’ve been asked to comment on in press at JGR, (where I was told it was submitted) yet BEST is making a “pre-peer review” media blitz.

One willing participant to this blitz, that I spent the last week corresponding with, is James Astill of The Economist, who presumably wrote the article below, but we can’t be sure since the Economist has not the integrity to put author names to articles:

The full article is here. Apparently, Astill has never heard of the UAH and RSS Global Temperature records, nor does he apparently know that all the surface temperature records come from one source, NCDC.

Now compare that headline and subtitle to this line in the article:

It will be interesting to see whether this makes it past the review process.

And, The Economist still doesn’t get it. The issue of “the world is warming” is not one that climate skeptics question, it is the magnitude and causes.

I was given a pre-release draft copy of one of the papers, related to my work as a courtesy. It contained several errors, some minor (such as getting the name of our paper wrong i.e. Fell et al in several places, plus a title that implied global rather than USA) some major enough to require revision (incorrect time period comparisons).

I made these errors known to all the players, including the journal editor, and the hapless Astill, who despite such concerns went ahead with BEST’s plan for a media blitz anyway. I was told by a BEST spokesperson that all of this was “coordinated to happen on October 20th”.

My response, penned days ago, went unheeded as far as I can tell, because I’ve received no response from Muller or the Journal author. Apparently, PR trumps the scientific process now, no need to do that pesky peer review, no need to address the errors with those you ask for comments prior to publication, just get it to press.

This is sad, because I had very high hopes for this project as the methodology is looked very promising to get a better handle on station discontinuity issues with their “scalpel” method. Now it looks just like another rush to judgement, peer review be damned.

Below is my response along with the draft paper from BEST, since the cat is publicly out of the bag now, I am not bound by any confidentiality requests. Readers should note I have not seen any other papers (there may be up to 4, I don’t know the BEST website is down right now) except the one that concerns me.

My response as sent to all media outlets who sent requests for comment to me:

===========================================================

In contradiction to normal scientific method and protocol, I have been asked to provide public commentary to a mass media outlet (The Economist) on this new paper. The lead author,  Dr. Richard Muller has released me from a previous request of confidentiality on the matter in a written communication on 10/14/2011. 10/15/2011 at 4:07PM PST in an email.  The paper in question is:

Earth Atmospheric Land Surface Temperature and  Station Quality [Tentative title, may have changed] by Muller et al 2011, submitted to the AGU JGR Atmospheres Journal, which apparently has neither completed peer review on the paper nor has it been accepted for publication by JGR.

Since the paper has not completed peer review yet, it would be inappropriate for me to publicly comment on the conclusions, especially in light of a basic procedural error that has been discovered in the methodology that will likely require a rework of the data and calculations, and thus the conclusions may also change. The methodology however does require comment.

The problem has to do with the time period of the data used, a time period which is inconsistent with two prior papers cited as this Muller et al paper being in agreement with. They are:

Fall et al (2011), Analysis of the impacts of station exposure on the U.S. Historical Climatology Network temperatures and temperature trends J. Geophys. Res.

http://pielkeclimatesci.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/r-367.pdf

and

Menne et al  (2010), On the reliability of the U.S. surface temperature record, J. Geophys. Res.

Both papers listed above (and cited by Muller et al) do an analysis over a thirty year time period while the Muller et al paper uses data for comparison from 1950 – 2010 as stated on lines 142-143:

“We calculated the mean temperature from 1950 to the present for each of these sites, and subtracted the mean of the poor sites from the OK sites.”

I see this as a basic failure in understanding the limitations of the siting survey we conducted on the USHCN, rendering the Muller et al paper conclusions highly uncertain, if not erroneous.

There is simply no way siting quality can be established as static for that long. The USHCN survey was based on photographs and site surveys starting in of 2007, plus historical metadata. Since the siting of COOP stations change as volunteers move, die, or discontinue their service, we know the record of siting stability to be tenuous over time. This is why we tracked only from 1979 and excluded stations whose locations were unknown prior to 2002. 1979 represented the practical limit of which we assumed we could reasonably ascertain siting conditions by our survey.

We felt that the further back the station siting changes occurred, the more uncertainty was introduced into the analysis, thus we limited meaningful comparisons of temperature data to siting quality to thirty years, starting in 1979.

Our ratings from surfacestations.org are assumed to be valid for the 1979 – 2008 period, but with Muller et all doing analysis from 1950, it renders the station survey data moot since neither Menne et al nor Fall et al made any claim of the station survey data being representative prior to 1979. The comparisons made in Muller et al are inappropriate because they are outside of the bounds of our station siting quality data set.

Also, by using a 60 year period, Muller et al spans two 30 year climate normals periods, thus further complicating the analysis. Both Menne et al and Fall et al spanned only one.

Because of the long time periods involved in Muller et al analysis, and because both Menne et al and Fall et al made no claims of knowing anything about siting quality prior to 1979, I consider the paper fatally flawed as it now stands, and thus I recommend it be removed from publication consideration by JGR until such time that it can be reworked.

For me to comment on the conclusions of Muller et al would be inappropriate until this time period error is corrected and the analysis reworked for time scale appropriate comparisons.

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature analysis methodology is new, and may yield some new and potentially important results on siting effects once the appropriate time period comparisons are made. I welcome the BEST effort provided that appropriate time periods are used that match our work. But, by using time period mismatched comparisons, it becomes clear that the Muller et al paper in its current form lost the opportunity for a meaningful comparison.

As I was invited by The Economist to comment publicly, I would recommend rejecting Muller et al in the current form and suggest that it be resubmitted with meaningful and appropriate 30 year comparisons for the same time periods used by the Menne et al and Fall et al cited papers. I would be happy to review the paper again at that time.

I also believe it would be premature and inappropriate to have a news article highlighting the conclusions of this paper until such time meaningful data comparisons are produced and the paper passes peer review. Given the new techniques from BEST, there may be much to gain from a rework of the analysis limited to identical thirty year periods used in Menne et al and Fall et al.

Thank you for your consideration, I hope that the information I have provided will be helpful in determining the best course of action on this paper.

Best Regards,

Anthony Watts

cc list: James Astill, The Economist, Dr. Joost DeGouw, JGR Atmospheres editor, Richard A. Muller, Leslie Kaufman, Ian Sample

===========================================================

Despite my concerns, The Economist author James Astill told me that “the issue is important” and decided to forge ahead, and presumably produced the article above.

Here is the copy of the paper I was provided by Richard Muller. I don’t know if they have addressed my concerns or not, since I was not given any follow up drafts of the paper.

BEST_Station_Quality (PDF 1.2 MB)

I assume the journalists that are part of the media blitz have the same copy.

I urge readers to read it in entirety and to comment on it, because as Dr. Muller wrote to me:

I know that is prior to acceptance, but in the tradition that I grew up in (under Nobel Laureate Luis Alvarez) we always widely distributed “preprints” of papers prior to their publication or even submission.  That guaranteed a much wider peer review than we obtained from mere referees.

Please keep it confidential until we post it ourselves.

They want it widely reviewed. Now that The Economist has published on it, it is public knowledge.

There might be useful and interesting work here done by BEST, but I find it troubling that they can’t wait for science to do its work and run the peer review process first. Is their work so important, so earth shattering, that they can’t be bothered to run the gauntlet like other scientists? This is post normal science at its absolute worst.

In my opinion, this is a very, very, bad move by BEST. I look forward to seeing what changes might be made in peer review should these papers be accepted and published.

==============================================================

UPDATE: Judith Curry, who was co-author to some of these papers, has a post on it here

Also I know that I’ll be critcized for my position on this, since I said back in March that I would accept their findings whatever they were, but that was when I expected them to do science per the scientific process.

When BEST approached me, I was told they were doing science by the regular process, and that would include peer review. Now it appears they have circumvented the scientific process in favor of PR.

For those wishing to criticize me on that point, please note this caveat in my response above:

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature analysis methodology is new, and may yield some new and potentially important results on siting effects once the appropriate time period comparisons are made. I welcome the BEST effort provided that appropriate time periods are used that match our work. But, by using time period mismatched comparisons, it becomes clear that the Muller et al paper in its current form lost the opportunity for a meaningful comparison.

Given the new techniques from BEST, there may be much to gain from a rework of the analysis limited to identical thirty year periods used in Menne et al and Fall et al.

My issue has to do with the lost opportunity of finding something new, the findings may agree, or they may be different if run on the same time periods. I think it is a fair question to ask since my peer reviewed paper (Fall et al) and NOAA’s (Menne et al) paper both used 30 year periods.

If BEST can run their comparison on the 30 year period for which our data is valid, instead of 60 years, as stated before, I’ll be happy to accept the results, whatever they are. I’m only asking for the correct time period to be used. Normally things like this are addressed in peer review, but BEST has blown that chance by taking it public first before such things can be addressed.

As for the other papers supposedly being released today, I have not seen them, so I can’t comment on them. There may be good and useful work here, but it is a pity they could not wait for the scientific process to decide that.

================================================================

UPDATE2: 12:08 PM BEST has sent out their press release, below:

The Berkeley Earth team has completed the preliminary analysis of the land surface temperature records, and our findings are now available on the Berkeley Earth website, together with the data and our code at

www.BerkeleyEarth.org/resources.php.

Four scientific papers have been submitted to peer reviewed journals, covering the following topics:

1. Berkeley Earth Temperature Averaging Process

2. Influence of Urban Heating on the Global Temperature Land Average

3. Earth Atmospheric Land Surface Temperature and Station Quality in the United States

4. Decadal Variations in the Global Atmospheric Land Temperatures

By making our work accessible and transparent to both professional and amateur exploration, we hope to encourage feedback and further analysis of the data and our findings.  We encourage every substantive question and challenge to our work in order to enrich our understanding of global land temperature change, and we will attempt to address as many inquiries as possible.

If you have questions or reflections on this phase of our work, please contact, info@berkeleyearth.org.  We look forward to hearing from you.

All the best,

Elizabeth

Elizabeth Muller

Founder and Executive Director

Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature

www.berkeleyearth.org

=========================================================

I’m still happy to accept the results, whatever they might be, all I’m asking for is an “apples to apples” comparison of data on the 30 year time period.

They have a new technique, why not try it out on the correct time period?

UPDATE4: Apparently BEST can’t be bothered to fix basic errors, even though I pointed them out, They can’t even get the name of our paper right:

http://berkeleyearth.org/Resources/Berkeley_Earth_Station_Quality

I sent an email over a week ago advising of the error in names, got a response, and they still have not fixed it, what sort of quality is this? Fell et all? right under figure 1

And repeated six times in the document they released today.

Sheesh. Why can’t they be troubled to fix basic errors? This is what peer review is for. Here’s my email from October 6th

—–Original Message—–
From: Anthony Watts- ItWorks
Date: Thursday, October 06, 2011 3:25 PM
To: Richard A Muller
Subject: Re: Our paper is attached
Dear Richard,
Thank you for the courtesy, correction:  Fell et al needs to be corrected to
Fall et al in several occurrences.
When we complete GHCN (which we are starting on now) we’ll have a greater
insight globally.
Best Regards,
Anthony Watts

Here is the reply I got from Dr. Muller

—–Original Message—–
From: Richard A Muller
Date: Friday, October 14, 2011 3:35 PM
To: Anthony Watts- ItWorks
Subject: Re: Our paper is attached
Anthony,
We sent a copy to only one media person, from The Economist, whom we trust to keep it confidential.  I sent a copy to you because I knew you would also keep it confidential.
I apologize for not having gotten back to you about your comments.  I particularly like your suggestion about the title; that is an improvement.
Rich
On Oct 14, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Anthony Watts- ItWorks wrote:
> Dear Richard,
>
> I sent a reply with some suggested corrections. But I have not heard back
> from you.
>
> Does the preprints peer review you speak of for this paper include sending
> copies to media?
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Anthony Watts

==========================================================

UPDATE 5: The Guardian writer Ian Samples writes in this article:

The Berkeley Earth project has been attacked by some climate bloggers, who point out that one of the funders is linked to Koch Industries, a company Greenpeace called a “financial kingpin of climate science denial“.

Reader AK writes at Judth Curry’s blog:

I’ve just taken a quick look at the funding information for the BEST team, which is:

Funded through Novim, a 501(c)(3) corporation, the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature study has received a total of $623,087 in financial support.

Major Donors include:

– The Lee and Juliet Folger Fund ($20,000)

– William K. Bowes, Jr. Foundation ($100,000)

– Fund for Innovative Climate and Energy Research (created by Bill Gates) ($100,000)

– Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000)

– The Ann & Gordon Getty Foundation ($50,000)

We have also received funding from a number of private individuals, totaling $14,500 as of June 2011.

In addition to donations:

This work was supported in part by the Director, Office of Science, of the U.S. Department of Energy under Contract No. DE-AC02-05CH11231 ($188,587)

So now (pending peer-review and publication) we have the interesting situation of a Koch institution, a left-wing boogy-man, funding an unbiased study that confirms the previous temperature estimates, “consistent with global land-surface warming results previously reported, but with reduced uncertainty.

The identities of the people involved with these two organizations can be found on their websites. Let the smirching begin.

Get notified when a new post is published.
Subscribe today!
0 0 votes
Article Rating
409 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
mandas
October 20, 2011 6:06 pm

[snip. Try saying whatever your trying to say a little more politely. ~dbs, mod.]

Bill H
October 20, 2011 6:10 pm

Let me get this straight..
BEST takes the temps… averages them.. then compiles them into a program which then extrapolates what the real temps were…
Then they take those findings and places them into a paper… refused to properly vet/review the paper and refuses to correct even basic errors…..
The IPCC, MET, EAU, CRU all use this same method of falsification by model… then try and get people to act out of emotion and not reason… thinking….
Nothing more than the Obama Hand of the EPA justifying the need for regulations now without thinking or science to back it up….
HAS ANYTHING CHANGED SINCE CLIMATE-GATE? looks like buisness as usual to me..
Bill

EFS_Junior
October 20, 2011 6:14 pm

So now (pending peer-review and publication) we have the interesting situation of a Koch institution, a left-wing boogy-man, funding an unbiased study that confirms the previous temperature estimates, “consistent with global land-surface warming results previously reported, but with reduced uncertainty.”
The identities of the people involved with these two organizations can be found on their websites. Let the smirching begin.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Pretty much a non sequitur, given the following;
“All donations were provided as unrestricted educational grants, which means the donor organizations have no say over how we conduct the research or what we publish. All of our work and results will be presented with full transparency.”
http://www.berkeleyearth.org/donors.php
What two organizations?

BioBob
October 20, 2011 6:15 pm

“Kevin MacDonald says:
October 20, 2011 at 3:43 pm …these comments refer to the last decade”
——————————————-
My comments have no particular reference to the last 10 years or any particular period. Dunno why you included that particular segment but my point was the data is so bad and the actual and possible errors so large that no scientist with a solid grounding in statistics and sampling could discern the signal from the error and standard deviation noise. My comments refer to the ENTIRE HISTORY of garbage environmental temperature collection and probably include satellite measurements or we would not see 400+ degree Lake Michigan surface temperatures integrated into the dataset.
================================================================
“steven mosher says:
October 20, 2011 at 2:37 pm
All data is error ridden. If the errors are normally distributed, then its doesnt make the mean noiser.”
————————–
Sorry bubba. All data is NOT “error ridden”. You show a remarkable ignorance/cavalier attitude concerning the sources and types of scientific measurement error.
There are a number of different types of error and sampling error of a normally distributed population is the least of them and the most correctable, provided the assumptions which underlay the statistics are met. Unfortunately for the global temperature data, this assumption completely and demonstrably false.
1) instrument calibration error is not likely to be normally distributed
2) the limits of instrument observability are never normally distributed and are irreducible constants
3) sampling siting and measurement bias is rarely normally distributed and pervasive in surface station data.
4) arbitrary corrections to actual observations is not likely normally distributed.
5) made up data like that mentioned in “harryreadme.txt” is probably not normally distributed [LOL – WTF ????]
6) and most important of all, a single nonrandom unrepeated observation from a nonrandom location in a time series is NEVER drawn from a normally distributed population even though this comprises 100% of every temperature data set I have ever seen.

Bill H
October 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Slackermagee says:
October 20, 2011 at 5:56 pm
When we look in on this ‘debate’ from outside the climate sciences… we really do shake our heads quite a bit at the skeptics. No references, no papers, nothing that’s come through any sort of peer review!
——————————————————————————————–
if your screaming for lack of real peer review you need look inward to the warmers.. they used the same 30 individuals to circular peer review their work… Now we tear apart the work and show you folks where your wrong and warmers get all butt hurt.. when you all can do science without peer review by circular method then come on back an complain.. until then….. have a nice day.

Dave Springer
October 20, 2011 6:18 pm

Bruce says:
October 20, 2011 at 3:31 pm
“Why do you always ignore everything but CO2 Mosher?”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=One%20Trick%20Pony

October 20, 2011 6:21 pm

Slackermagee says:
“When we look in on this ‘debate’ from outside the climate sciences… we really do shake our heads quite a bit at the skeptics. No references, no papers, nothing that’s come through any sort of peer review!”
That’s what you get for living in a self-reinforcing echo chamber of censoring blogs populated by a relatively small group of like-minded head nodders. FYI, this is one of the few sites that allow all points of view [within site Policy, of course].
So shake your head all you want. The fact is that you cannot show any global harm or damage as a result of more CO2. And you cannot show any verifiable evidence that the global temperature rise from 288K to 288.8K over the past century and a half has caused any harm. And wake me the day the alarmist cult discovers the scientific method and the complete transparency it requires. Michael Mann still refuses to cooperate with other scientists, thirteen years after his universally debunked MBH98 and its original hokey stick chart.
And regarding the corrupt climate pal review system, even Nature was forced to issue a Correction to MBH98. If it weren’t for psychological projection, the alarmist crowd would be at a loss for words.
•••
Kevin MacDonald claims that the global temperature rise is accelerating — by using a WFT chart as his ‘authority’! Earth to MacDonald: You can show most anything with WFT [see my links @5:45 pm above]. For example, we can see that the trend line from the LIA is normal, natural, and nothing to be alarmed about. Over the past year the CET record has plunged faster than at any time during the past 160 years; that is hardly “accelerating warming”.
Arm-waving about a natural cycle in order to demonize “carbon” is what scientific iliterates and/or those with an agenda do. We see it in the media every day. It’s just ignorant pseudo-science.

charles nelson
October 20, 2011 6:23 pm

Slacker…your attempts at ‘even handedness’ just give you away.
If you ‘shake your heads’ at the skeptics (note use of the term ‘we’) who in the main use the official data provided by your very own noaa, nasa, cru etc to discredit the scare…then I imagine you could shake your head till it spun through 360 degrees and fell off, at the sleazy behaviour of your climate gate buddies.)
Your science may be crap..but to give credit where it’s due…your (note the use of the term ‘your’) PR machine is still much, much better than ours.

Bruce
October 20, 2011 6:28 pm

UHI contaminates all recent data making the present warmer than the past. Air conditioning is now ubiquitous. It wasn’t int he 1930s. There are numerous studies showing urban centers warming by 1C, 2C and even more as hot moist air was pumped into the streets of Tokyo and Paris (examples). A/C units were not there in 1934. And the USA has only two years warmer than 1934. UHI probably means than 1934 is still the warmest year in US history.
77 years ago. It isn’t any warmer than it was … even with UHI contaminated datasets.

October 20, 2011 6:35 pm

steven mosher says:
“If you have an issue take it up with the Nobel prize winner”
Oh, please. Appeals to authority play a weak hand on this site. Algore got the Nobel, too. Should we take it up with him?

Myrrh
October 20, 2011 6:36 pm

TomL says:
October 20, 2011 at 2:05 pm
The spin I’ve seen so far is that the skeptics have been proven wrong because the new results still show a temperature increase over the last 200 years. The new results also show no increase over the last 10 years but nobody is talking about that.
When you begin measuring from the lowest point of a cold period which is low because the preceding period had higher temperatures, and longer timescales show there are many such periods of temperature rises followed by temperature falls, what do you expect to see now?
Temps in this our period, post Little Ice Age, is still on a downward slope from the beginning of the Holocene, the rises and falls merely hiccups on the way back into the Ice Age we’re still in..
Sceptics are sceptics because they think.
………………..
Anthony, you’ve obviously touched a raw nerve on the AGWBeastie from the attacks here…

October 20, 2011 6:37 pm

Bill H – You’re attacking climate scientists for pal review, I get that. Do you similarly attack Lindzen and Choi for attempting the same thing at PNAS (where the pal review was rejected along with their paper) and Remote Sensing (where it worked, and we all know the results of that, don’t we)?
Just curious.

October 20, 2011 6:43 pm

Bill Illis, read the papers. The paper which describes the methodology only used the GHCN dataset.

David Falkner
October 20, 2011 6:47 pm

Ha! It’s an important topic, they say. Apparently too important to get right.

aceandgary
October 20, 2011 6:47 pm

so the article starts by complaining this paper hasn’t passed peer review? What happened to all the screaming that the peer review system was broken? How come I don’t hear that now?

FleshNotMachine
Reply to  aceandgary
October 20, 2011 7:15 pm

aceandgary commented
so the article starts by complaining this paper hasn’t passed peer review? What happened to all the screaming that the peer review system was broken? How come I don’t hear that now?
…and will commenters and posters here accept the BEST results if the paper DOES pass peer-review?

Konrad
October 20, 2011 6:48 pm

steven mosher says:
October 20, 2011 at 2:37 pm
“C02 warms the planet, the question is how much. That’s the real debate. join it”
That’s an easy one.
Those doing the black body calcs claim around 1 degree of warming for a doubling of CO2 from pre industrial levels* without feedback. However Earth is not a black body. 71% of the surface is ocean.
So divide that 1 degree of warming into two parts. 0.29 degrees for land and 0.71 degrees for oceans.
Now multiply 0.71 by 0.3 to get the realistic effect of backscattered LWIR on water that is free to evaporatively cool. (missing heat Kevin?)
Add this 0.213 degrees back to the 0.29 degrees for land to get 0.503 degrees of warming for a doubling of CO2.
Now multiply that 0.503 degrees by 0.5 to account for negative water vapour feed back, giving 0.2515 degrees of warming for a doubling of CO2. (* ignoring issues such as dodgy pre industrial CO2 levels determined from ice cores with diffusion problems.)
Conclude that 0.2515 degrees of warming will be neither dangerous nor catastrophic.
Further conclude that with a CO2 sensitivity this low there are not enough known or projected fossil fuel reserves to burn to cause dangerous or catastrophic global warming.

kadaka (KD Knoebel)
October 20, 2011 6:49 pm

Anthony,
I went to give the Trenberth meeting post one last look before closing the tab, found this:

UPDATE: this meeting is canceled, I will not be attending – Anthony

Any relation to the above nonsense?

Jenn Oates
October 20, 2011 6:59 pm

I really want to be surprised at this. I am trying really really hard to be surprised, but I just can’t. Unfortunately. Alas.

October 20, 2011 7:19 pm

aceandgary says:
“so the article starts by complaining this paper hasn’t passed peer review? What happened to all the screaming that the peer review system was broken? How come I don’t hear that now?”
Are you that clueless?
The climate pal review system is broken. And it’s clear that Mueller had his fingers crossed behind his back the whole time, as I showed in my post links @October 20, 2011 at 3:06 pm above. You’re conflating Mueller’s duplicity with his conducting of an obviously choreographed PR campaign. Are you that blind to what’s going on? Because we’re not.

Jeff D
October 20, 2011 7:21 pm

I think Anthony has figured out what the striped squirrel really is. Trust is hard, sometimes you take a chance and hope you don’t get burned. That lesson cost me $50,000. I am not near as trusting. Now trust must be earned not given freely. I know that goes against Willis views but personal experience does color ones actions.

gbaikie
October 20, 2011 7:22 pm

*What is land average and ocean average?*
No one have quick answer?
How about rough guess ocean average temperature is more than 15 C
And Land average is around 0 C
It seems like a good trivia question, but I don’t get any quick answers.
And for any vaguely interested in climatic, it seems to me it ought to be known.
Land area of countries
Russia % of world: 11.5% [17,098,242 km 6,601,668 mi]
Antarctic: 8.9% [14.2 million sq km (about 5.5 million sq miles) in summer]
Canada: 6.7%
China: 6.5%
United States: 6.5%
Brazil: 5.7%
Australia: 5.2%
India: 2.3%
Argentina: 2%
Rest each has less than 2%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_outlying_territories_by_total_area
This is only 47.3 % of land area.
And more than half of the 47.3% is countries or continents which are pretty cold:
Russia, Antarctic, and Canada.
Perhaps an interesting question is what country which more than 1% of the land area
has the highest average temperature.
Anyone have a guess? I have no clue.
I know it’s probably Indonesia: 1.3% of the land area.
But before get to that what is average temperature of Russia?
Antarctic is:
“The average temperature on the Antarctic continent is -49 C”
http://www.gma.org/surfing/antarctica/antarctica.html
Oh trivia:
“The highest average annual temperature in the world, possibly a world record, is the 94°F, at Dalol (or Dallol), Ethiopia.”
But it’s a town not a country, anyhow.
Coldest extremes:
Antarctica –129
Oimekon, Russia -90
Verkhoyansk, Russia -90
Greenland -87
http://www.weatherexplained.com/Vol-1/Record-Setting-Weather.html
Trying to figure out Canada average temperature:
this charts of when average temperature go below freezing:
http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/e0010733
I know that frost level/permafrost anyplace with permafrost should have average temperature below freezing.
And looks like more half Canada has permafrost.
“Permafrost, or soil that is permanently frozen, covers about 63 percent of Russia, but has been greatly affected by climate change in recent decades.”
So I would say Canada and Russia have average temperature of 0 C or lower.
Or about 25% of land area average temperature is somewhere around -10 to -15 C
Here is Indonesia bragging about it’s temperature:
“The average temperature in Indonesia is 27.7 °C (82 °F)”
http://www.climatetemp.info/indonesia/
Anyhow as guess it seems if don’t add temperature for the elevation being above sea level the average land temperature does seem to be somewhere around 0 C.
Also seems fairly rare that anyone finds it useful to describe their country in terms of it’s average temperature.
Of course with Ocean you huge areas which are over 28 C and Oceans can’t get much below freezing unless you measuring the air temperature above the ice. Not considered here:
http://www.climate4you.com/SeaTemperatures.htm#Recent%20sea%20surface%20temperature

FleshNotMachine
October 20, 2011 7:23 pm

So Anthony, I have to ask: what evidence *would* convince you of AGW?

joe
October 20, 2011 7:24 pm

that’s too bad. i think i heard this Muller guy a few times on the Dr. Bill Wattenburg radio show and he seemed like an honest man. supposedly had the most popular physics class or something like that at UC Berkley. maybe it says something about our universities.

Walter Sobchak
October 20, 2011 7:24 pm

Stepen
“All data is error ridden. If the errors are normally distributed, then its doesnt make the mean noiser.” [sic]
Again. How do we know whether the errors are normally distributed? And, even if they are normally distributed in modern times can we know what the distribution was before?
“The world is getting warmer. The measurements of that are uncertain, but we know that it is warmer now than in the LIA. We’ve got good estimates of how much warmer.”
To say that the world is warmer now than it was in a time period dubbed the “Little Ice Age” is not saying very much. “measurements … are uncertain … We’ve got good estimates” is indecipherable.
“The surface record over the last 30 years is well correlated with the satellite record. That gives us confidence that records PRIOR to this period are also reliable.”
The second sentence does not follow from the first. The correlation may be maintained by “adjustments” to the surface record, or it maybe that modern instruments and techniques are far superior to those used in previous eras.
“They didnt magicillat improve post 1979. The last 10 years are also well correlated with an absolutely pristine land record ( The climate reference network)” [sic]
Then weather measurement would be the only sphere of activity related to measurement generally that has not vastly improved over the last 30 years. The subject of “adjustments” is addressed above.
“C02 warms the planet, the question is how much. That’s the real debate. join it”
CO2 cannot warm anything. It is not a source of energy.

October 20, 2011 7:27 pm

FleshNotMachine says:
“…and will commenters and posters here accept the BEST results if the paper DOES pass peer-review?”
Absolutely… IF the results are per the scientific method, and the data is testable and verifiable. But that’s the rub, isn’t it, kool-aid drinker? As Harry the programmer stated, he fabricated outright fourteen years of temperature data. The whole global warming scare is based on bad and/or invented data.
Defend that, if you think you can.

FleshNotMachine
Reply to  dbstealey
October 20, 2011 8:28 pm

Smokey commented
-> “…and will commenters and posters here accept the BEST results if
-> the paper DOES pass peer-review?”
Absolutely… IF the results are per the scientific method, and the data is testable and verifiable.
The second is already satisfied, no? BEST has made their data and programs available on their Web site: http://berkeleyearth.org/dataset.php
So we only have to focus on your first point. Now, what does “per the scientific method” mean?

1 6 7 8 9 10 15