Replicating Al Gore's Climate 101 video experiment shows that his "high school physics" could never work as advertised

This will be a top “sticky” post for a day or two. New stories will appear below this one.

Readers may recall my previous essay where I pointed out how Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 Video, used in his “24 hours of climate reality”, had some serious credibility issues with editing things to make it appear as if they had actually performed the experiment, when they clearly did not. It has taken me awhile to replicate the experiment. Delays were a combination of acquisition and shipping problems, combined with my availability since I had to do this on nights and weekends. I worked initially using the original techniques and equipment, and I’ve replicated the Climate 101 experiment in other ways using improved equipment. I’ve compiled several videos. My report follows.

First. as a refresher, here’s the Climate 101 video again:

I direct your attention to the 1 minute mark, lasting through 1:30, where the experiment is presented.

And here’s my critique of it: Video analysis and scene replication suggests that Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project fabricated their Climate 101 video “Simple Experiment”

The most egregious faked presentation in that video was the scene with the split screen thermometers, edited to appear as if the temperature in the jar of elevated CO2 level was rising faster than the jar without elevated CO2 level.

It turns out that the thermometers were never in the jar recording the temperature rise presented in the split screen and the entire presentation was nothing but stagecraft and editing.

This was proven beyond a doubt by the photoshop differencing technique used to compare each side of the split screen. With the exception of the moving thermometer fluid, both sides were identical.

difference process run at full resolution - click to enlarge

Exposing this lie to the viewers didn’t set well with some people, include the supposed “fairness” watchdogs over at Media Matters, who called the analysis a “waste of time”. Of course it’s only a “waste of time” when you prove their man Gore was faking the whole thing, otherwise they wouldn’t care. Personally I consider it a badge of honor for them to take notice because they usually reserve such vitriol for high profile news they don’t like, so apparently I have “arrived”.

The reason why I took so much time then to show this chicanery was Mr. Gore’s pronouncement in an interview the day the video aired.

His specific claim was:

“The deniers claim that it’s some kind of hoax and that the global scientific community is lying to people,” he said. “It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.” – Al Gore in an interview with MNN 9/14/2011

So easy a high school kid can do it. Right?

Bill Nye, in his narration at 0:48 in the video says:

You can replicate this effect yourself in a simple lab experiment, here’s how.

…and at 1:10 in the video Nye says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

So, I decided to find out if that was true and if anyone could really replicate that claim, or if this was just more stagecraft chicanery. I was betting that nobody on Gore’s production team actually did this experiment, or if they did do it, it wasn’t successful, because otherwise, why would they have to fake the results in post production?

The split screen video at 1:17, a screencap of which is a few paragraphs above shows a temperature difference of 2°F. Since Mr. Gore provided no other data, I’ll use that as the standard to meet for a successful experiment.

The first task is to get all the exact same equipment. Again, since Mr. Gore doesn’t provide anything other than the video, finding all of that took some significant effort and time. There’s no bill of materials to work with so I had to rely on finding each item from the visuals. While I found the cookie jars and oral thermometers early on, finding the lamp fixtures, the heat lamps for them, the CO2 tank and the CO2 tank valve proved to be more elusive. Surprisingly, the valve turned out to be the hardest of all items to locate, taking about two weeks from the time I started searching to the time I had located it, ordered it and it arrived. The reason? It isn’t called a valve, but rather a “In-Line On/Off Air Adapter”. Finding the terminology was half the battle. Another surprise was finding that the heat lamps and fixtures were for lizards and terrariums and not some general purpose use. Fortunately the fixtures and lamps were sold together by the same company. While the fixtures supported up to 150 watts, Mr. Gore made no specification on bulb type or wattage, so I chose the middle of the road 100 watt bulbs from the 50, 100, and 150 watt choices available.

I believe that I have done due diligence (as much as possible given no instructions from Gore) and located all the original equipment to accurately replicate the experiment as it was presented. Here’s the bill of materials and links to suppliers needed to replicate Al Gore’s experiment as it is shown in the Climate 101 video:

====================================================

BILL OF MATERIALS

QTY 2 Anchor Hocking Cookie Jar with Lid

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187543

QTY2 Geratherm Oral Thermometer Non-Mercury http://www.pocketnurse.com/Geratherm-Oral-Thermometer-Non-Mercury/productinfo/06-74-5826/

QTY 2 Globe Coin Bank

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150661053386

QTY 2 Fluker`s Repta Clamp-Lamp with Ceramic Sockets for Terrariums (max 150 watts, 8 1/2 Inch Bulb) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluker-s-Repta-Clamp-Lamp-150-watts-8-1-2-Inch-Bulb-/200663082632

QTY2 Zoo Med Red Infrared Heat Lamp 100W

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200594870618

QTY1 Empire – Pure Energy – Aluminum Co2 Tank – 20 oz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190563856367

QTY 1 RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/rap4-in-line-on-off-air-adapter

QTY 1 flexible clear plastic hose, 48″ in length, from local Lowes hardware to fit RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter above.

====================================================

Additionally, since Mr. Gore never actually proved that CO2 had been released from the CO2 paintball tank into one of the jars, I ordered a portable CO2 meter for just that purpose:

It has a CO2 metering accuracy of: ± 50ppm ±5% reading value. While not laboratory grade, it works well enough to prove the existence of elevated CO2 concentrations in one of the jars. It uses a non-dispersive infrared diffusion sensor (NDIR) which is self calibrating, which seems perfect for the job.

carbon dioxide temperature humidity monitorData Sheet

===================================================

Once I got all of the equipment in, the job was to do some testing to make sure it all worked. I also wanted to be sure the two oral thermometers were calibrated such they read identically. For that, I prepared a water bath to conduct that experiment.

CAVEAT: For those that value form over substance, yes these are not slick professionally edited videos like Mr. Gore presented. They aren’t intended to be. They ARE intended to be a complete, accurate, and most importantly unedited record of the experimental work I performed. Bear in mind that while Mr. Gore has million$ to hire professional studios and editors, all I have is a consumer grade video camera, my office and my wits. If I were still working in broadcast television, you can bet I would have done this in the TV studio.

==============================================================

STEP 1 Calibrate the Oral Thermometers

Here’s my first video showing how I calibrated the oral thermometers, which is very important if you want to have an accurate experimental result.

Note that the two thermometers read 98.1°F at the conclusion of the test, as shown in this screencap from my video @ about 5:35:

STEP 2 Calibrate the Infrared Thermometer

Since I plan to make use of an electronic Infrared thermometer in these experiments, I decided to calibrate it against the water bath also. Some folks may see this as unnecessary, since it is pre-calibrated, but I decided to do it anyway. It makes for interesting viewing

==============================================================

STEP 3 Demonstrate how glass blocks IR using  the Infrared Thermometer

The way an actual greenhouse works is by trapping infrared radiation. Glass is transparent to visible light, but not to infrared light, as we see below.

Image from: greenhousesonline.com.au
Mr. Gore was attempting to demonstrate this effect in his setup, but there’s an obvious problem: he used infrared heat lamps rather than visible light lamps. Thus, it seems highly likely that the glass jars would block the incoming infrared, and convert it to heat. That being the case, the infrared radiative backscattering effect that makes up the greenhouse effect in our atmosphere couldn’t possibly be demonstrated here in the Climate 101 video.

By itself, that would be enough to declare the experiment invalid, but not only will I show the problem of the experimental setup being flawed, I’ll go to full on replication.

Using the warm water bath and the infrared thermometer, it becomes easy to demonstrate this effect.

Since Mr. Gore’s experiment used infrared heat lamps illuminating two glass jars, I decided to test that as well:

==============================================================

STEP 4 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 10 minutes

At 1:10 in the Climate 101 video narrator Bill Nye the science guy says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

Since this is “simple high school physics” according to Mr. Gore, this should be a cinch to replicate. I took a “within minutes” from the narration to be just that, so I tried an experiment with 10 minutes of duration. I also explain the experimental setup and using the CO2 meter prove that CO2 is in fact injected into Jar “B”. My apologies for the rambling dialog, which wasn’t scripted, but explained as I went along. And, the camera work is one-handed while I’m speaking and setting up the experiment, so what it lacks in production quality it makes up in reality.

You’ll note that after 10 minutes, it appears there was no change in either thermometer. Also, remember these are ORAL thermometers, which hold the reading (so you can take it out of your mouth and hand it to mom and ask “can I stay home from school today”?). So for anyone concerned about the length of time after I turned off the lamps, don’t be. In order to reset the thermometers you have to shake them to force the liquid back down into the bulb.

Here’s the screencaps of the two thermometer readings from Jar A and B:

Clearly, 10 minutes isn’t enough time for the experiment to work. So let’s scratch off the idea from narration of “a few minutes” and go for a longer period:

RESULT: No change, no difference in temperature. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video. Inconclusive.

==============================================================

STEP 5 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 30 minutes

Ok, identical setup as before, the only difference is time, the experiment runs 30 minutes long. I’ve added a digital timer you can watch as the experiment progresses.

And here are the screencaps from the video above of the results:

RESULT: slight rise and difference in temperature 97.4°F for Jar “A” Air, and 97.2°F for Jar “B” CO2. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video.

==============================================================

STEP 6 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment, using digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment, I’m substituting the liquid in glass oral thermometers with some small self contained battery powered digital logging thermometers with LCD displays.

This model:

Details here

Specification Sheet / Manual

USB-2-LCD+ Temperature Datalogger

I used two identical units in the experiment replication:

And here are the results graphed by the application that comes with the datalogger. Red is Temperature, Blue is Humidity, Green is dewpoint

The graphs are automatically different vertical scales and thus can be a bit confusing, so I’ve take the raw data for each and graphed temperature only:

After watching my own video, I was concerned that maybe I was getting a bit of a direct line of the visible portion of the heat lamp into the sensor housing onto the thermistor, since they were turned on their side. So I ran the experiment again with the dataloggers mounted vertically in paper cups to ensure the thermistors were shielded from any direct radiation at any wavelength. See this video:

Both runs of the USB datalogger are graphed together below:

RESULTS:

Run 1 slight rise and difference in temperature 43.5°C for Jar “A” Air with Brief pulse to 44°C , and 43.0°C for Jar “B” CO2.

Run 2 had an ended with a 1°C difference, with plain air in Jar A being warmer than Jar “B with CO2.

Jar “A” Air temperature led Jar “B” CO2 during the entire experiment on both runs

The datalogger output files are available here:

JarA Air only run1.txt  JarB CO2 run1.txt

JarA Air only run2.txt JarB CO2 run2.txt

==============================================================

STEP 7 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using a high resolution NIST calibrated digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment I use a high resolution (0.1F resolution) and NIST calibrated data logger with calibrated probes. Data was collected over my LAN to special software. This is the datalogger model:

Data sheet: Model E Series And the software used to log data is described here

Here’s the experiment:

I had to spend a lot of time waiting for the Jar “B” probe to come to parity with Jar “A” due to the cooling effect of the CO2 I introduced. As we all know, when a gas expands it cools, and that’s exactly what happens to CO2 released under pressure. You can see the effect early in the flat area of the graph below.

Here’s the end result screencap real-time graphing software used in the experiment, click the image to expand the graph full size.

RESULTS:

Peak value Jar A with air  was at 18:04 117.3°F

Peak value Jar B with CO2 was at 18:04 116.7°F

Once again, air led CO2 through the entire experiment.

Note that I allowed this experiment to go through a cool down after I turned off the Infrared heat lamps, which is the slope after the peak. Interestingly, while Jar “A” (probe1 in green) with Air, led Jar “B” (Probe 2 in red) with CO2, the positions reversed shortly after the lamps turned off.

The CO2 filled jar was now losing heat slower than the plain air jar, even though plain air Jar “A” had warmed slightly faster than the CO2 Jar “B”.

Here’s the datalogger output files for each probe:

Climate101-replication-Probe01-(JarA – Air).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe02-(JarB – CO2).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe03-(Ambient Air).csv

What could explain this reversal after the lamps were turned off? The answer is here at the Engineer’s Edge in the form of this table:

Heat Transfer Table of Content

This chart gives the thermal conductivity of gases as a function of temperature.

Unless otherwise noted, the values refer to a pressure of 100 kPa (1 bar) or to the saturation vapor pressure if that is less than 100 kPa.

The notation P = 0 indicates the low pressure limiting value is given. In general, the P = 0 and P = 100 kPa values differ by less than 1%.

Units are milliwatts per meter kelvin.

Note the values for Air and for CO2 that I highlighted in the 300K column. 300K is 80.3°F.

Air is a better conductor of heat than CO2.

==============================================================

So, here is what I think is going on with Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment.

  1. As we know, the Climate101 video used infrared heat lamps
  2. The glass cookie jars chosen don’t allow the full measure of infrared from the lamps to enter the center of the jar and affect the gas. I showed this two different ways with the infrared camera in videos above.
  3. During the experiments, I showed the glass jars heating up using the infrared camera. Clearly they were absorbing the infrared energy from the lamps.
  4. The gases inside the jars, air and pure CO2 thus had to be heated by secondary heat emission from the glass as it was being heated. They were not absorbing infrared from the lamps, but rather heat from contact with the glass.
  5. Per the engineering table, air is a better conductor of heat than pure CO2, so it warms faster, and when the lamps are turned off, it cools faster.
  6. The difference value of 2°F shown in the Climate 101 video split screen was never met in any of the experiments I performed.
  7. The condition stated in the Climate 101 video of “Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.” was not met in any of the experiments I performed. In fact it was exactly the opposite. Air consistently warmed faster than CO2.
  8. Thus, the experiment as designed by Mr. Gore does not show the greenhouse effect as we know it in our atmosphere, it does show how heat transfer works and differences in heat transfer rates with different substances, but nothing else.

Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment is falsified, and could not work given the equipment he specified. If they actually tried to perform the experiment themselves, perhaps this is why they had to resort to stagecraft in the studio to fake the temperature rise on the split screen thermometers.

The experiment as presented by Al Gore and Bill Nye “the science guy” is a failure, and not representative of the greenhouse effect related to CO2 in our atmosphere. The video as presented, is not only faked in post production, the premise is also false and could never work with the equipment they demonstrated. Even with superior measurement equipment it doesn’t work, but more importantly, it couldn’t work as advertised.

The design failure was the glass cookie jar combined with infrared heat lamps.

Gore FAIL.

=============================================================

UPDATE: 4PM PST Some commenters are taking away far more than intended from this essay. Therefore I am repeating this caveat I posted in my first essay where I concentrated on the video editing and stagecraft issues:

I should make it clear that I’m not doubting that CO2 has a positive radiative heating effect in our atmosphere, due to LWIR re-radiation, that is well established by science. What I am saying is that Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project did a poor job of demonstrating an experiment, so poor in fact that they had to fabricate portions of the presentation, and that the experiment itself (if they actually did it, we can’t tell) would show a completely different physical mechanism than what actually occurs in our atmosphere.

No broader take away (other than the experiment was faked and fails) was intended, expressed or implied – Anthony

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ferd berple
October 19, 2011 6:41 pm

The U.S. government’s Environmental Protection Agency
This phenomenon is called the “greenhouse effect” because it is exactly the same principle that heats a greenhouse
http://www.epa.gov/ne/students/pdfs/activ13.pdf
CO2 does not heat a greenhouse and is not the cause of the greenhouse effect.
What heats a greenhouse is the lack of convection/evaporation to carry away the heat, which results from the greenhouse itself forming a barrier to air movement.
This is so simple to prove that it is almost ridiculous. Open a small window at the bottom and top of a greenhouse. The greenhouse effect disappears as soon as you allow the air to circulate. Go ahead pump in CO2. Makes no difference.

October 19, 2011 7:00 pm

jeremy says:
October 19, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Trolls……get a life!

Uh, jeremy – this is their life.
🙂

ferd berple
October 19, 2011 7:16 pm

Got this from Judith Curry’s site. Different topic but it seemed appropriate here:
A quote from Mark Twain: ” . . . people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.”

R. Gates
October 19, 2011 7:29 pm

rpercifield says:
October 19, 2011 at 4:19 pm
“Does CO2 have an affect on the atmosphere? Yes it does. Does it control the entire climate system as a prime first order drive?”
____
There is lot’s of room in between those extremes, and that’s where the truth probably rests. But the most important question really is, “How sensitive is the climate to a 40% increase in CO2 in the atmosphere over the geologically short timespan of a few centuries?”
____
davidmhoffer,
As you can’t even get my gender correct, it completely negates any sort of obligation I would have had, even if we had come to any agreement of terms, which we never did. I’ve admitted to being wrong and given credit to Anthony for proving that the experiment as illustrated in the 101 video was completely impossible. I would even go so far as to say that some sort of correction and apology to the experiment as illustrated in the video should be issued by Gore, et. al. But as I am not a current fan of the kind of catastrophic viewpoint espoused by Mr. Gore, I have no reason to defend him, and generally could care less what he or his associates are up to.
But, being the gentleman that I am, even though we never agreed to the exact wager or finalized the bet, I would gladly agree to an after-the-fact compromise. You pay for a T-shirt that accurately summarizes the net scientific results of Anthony’s experiment and the bet we made. I would wear it for a photo with him when we get together in November. It would read:
Anthony Watts has proven that
Anchor Hocking Glass blocks
most infrared radiation.
________
Green Sand says:
October 19, 2011 at 4:19 pm
R. Gates says:
October 19, 2011 at 4:04 pm
“But do I think that the increases in CO2 in the atmosphere that humans have caused over the past few hundred years have helped to warm the planet? Yes, I’m 75% certain they have…”
But what is your % certainty about what, of the latter years, the planet has done with that warmth?
_______
I would suppose that some has into the deeper oceans as heat, some has gone into the latent heat of melting Greenland, Antarctica, net global glacial mass, and Arctic Sea ice reduction, and some has gone into the total enthalpy of the atmosphere and oceans. (need to consider all the forms of energy in the atmosphere and oceans, not just sensible heat). Finally, some I suppose has escaped into space. Not being a physicist or climate expert, I would be only about 50% certain of any these suppositions. Overall, the issue related to CO2 is one of climate sensitivity, and of course the role of clouds as negative or positive feedbacks is very important. I currently feel the paleoclimate data is probably the best source to what the net fast and slow feedbacks of our current and near future levels of CO2 will cause in term of warming. In looking and the nearest paleoclimate analog, we probably need to look to the mid-pliocene, around 3 million years ago. In looking at that time period, and considering all feedbacks, both fast and slow, at least 3C of warming seems very plausible for a doubling of CO2 from 280 ppm to 560 ppm.

October 19, 2011 7:48 pm

Gates says:
“In looking at that *time period, and considering all feedbacks, both fast and slow, at least 3C of warming seems very plausible for a doubling of CO2 from 280 ppm to 560 ppm.”
[*cherry-picked]
After all this time, Gates still doesn’t understand the fact that rises in CO2 are the effect of temperature rises, not the cause:
http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/IceCores1.gif

Alvin
October 19, 2011 8:01 pm

This also reminds me of the mythbusters experiment with the child and the teacher from Berkeley. I still have issues with their controls.

DR
October 19, 2011 8:02 pm

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Experiments/PlanetEarthScience/GlobalWarming/GW_Movie3.php

The longwave radiation contained in this exchange causes the warming effect known as the greenhouse effect.
This phenomenon is known as the greenhouse effect because, like the glass on a greenhouse, the atmosphere traps some of the energy beneath it.

u.k.(us)
October 19, 2011 8:06 pm

Thanks for the science lesson Anthony.
You should be a teacher.
You’re very good at it.

October 19, 2011 8:07 pm

R. Gates;
But, being the gentleman that I am, even though we never agreed to the exact wager or finalized the bet, I would gladly agree to an after-the-fact compromise. You pay for a T-shirt that accurately summarizes the net scientific results of Anthony’s experiment and the bet we made.>>>
You agreed to take the wager and then you welched out by refusing to discuss it further, my guess being that during your two day “time out” you realized it was a sucker bet that you could not possibly win so you just went quiet in every thread where I posed a question to you or brought the bet up. You welched, plain and simple, and no gentleman would ask the person they lost the wager with to pay for the wager. Further, you staunchly defended Al Gore, and the experiment as illustrated. Suddenly you want to distance yourself from him? He’s not in vogue anymore? You blindly argued that he was only “illustrating” the experiment and that the results were what the actual experiment would show. Now that you understand that the experiment was faked, and that it couldn’t have possibly shown the results that you were prepared to wager it showed, you don’t have the kahonies to call a spade a spade and issue the condemnation the man so richly deserves?
R. Gates;
As you can’t even get my gender correct, it completely negates any sort of obligation I would have had>>>
Read the above. Given that you are clearly not a gentleman, and don’t have the kahonies to stand up and do the right thing, I’ll let others decide for themselves. FYI, it was actually a trick. Another commenter argued that you were actually a woman. I wagered that I could provoke you into declaring you were male. Thanks, I’m now up $100 on the day!
As to getting your gender wrong negating the bet…well, there’s people who stand behind their words, and there are people who find the flimsiest of excuses for weaseling out of them. You agreed to take the wager, then tried to impose ridiculous terms and conditions, got sent for a two day time out, and when you came back, pretended like the whole thing never happened. Then trashed Gore as if you never backed him in the first place. You even trotted out that “well, I’m 25% skeptic” again, despite never having posted a single skeptic argument that I ever saw.
So R. Gages, what will it be? Settle the bet like the gentleman you pretent to be? Or go down in the books as an Al Gore turncoat who doesn’t keep his word?

David Ball
October 19, 2011 8:10 pm

RDCII says:
October 19, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Despite what you would like us all to believe, that is EXACTLY where the debate lies.

Dave Springer
October 19, 2011 8:15 pm

ferd berple says:
October 19, 2011 at 6:41 pm
“What heats a greenhouse is the lack of convection/evaporation to carry away the heat, which results from the greenhouse itself forming a barrier to air movement.”
I’m afraid that’s wrong. What heats a greenhouse is the sun. The glass allows the sunlight to enter but largely blocks the means by which it cools. There are four modes of heat loss: conduction, convection, evaporation, and radiation. The glass stops all of these except for conduction.
“This is so simple to prove that it is almost ridiculous. Open a small window at the bottom and top of a greenhouse. The greenhouse effect disappears as soon as you allow the air to circulate.”
Mirror the glass and you won’t need to open any windows because it won’t heat up in the first place.
“Go ahead pump in CO2. Makes no difference.”
That’s because the glass is already blocking 100% of the FIR from escaping and if it weren’t then in a normal greenhouse the humidity is very high and water vapor will be doing the heavy lifting anyhow.

G. Karst
October 19, 2011 8:34 pm

Oligonicella says:
October 19, 2011 at 8:18 am
Haven’t read all the comments, but the ‘experiment’ fails at container. Those cookie jars are what I use to steep brandies. The lids do not fit. Period. I have had *adult* Drosophila make their way inside. Gas exchange would be a breeze.

Lab SOP requires a generous coating of petroleum or silicone based grease on loose fitting glasswear faces, to provide proper sealing. However, this experiment was reproducing Gores experiment, in order to validate it. Since Gore did not specify a seal, and the video indicated the opposite, then Anthony could not employ it. This is A. Gore’s experiment (performed by Anthony), which failed to reproduce HIS results, thereby invalidating his A. Gore’s experiment. We need to keep our eye on the ball, people. This experiment doesn’t prove anything about CO2. GK

Gary Crough
October 19, 2011 8:41 pm

Was that “Mythbuster” video actually broadcast on TV? As a part of the Mythbuster show?
Either way Anthony’s experiment is a refutation of the Gore-inspired experiment. The case he makes is the Gore video is a fraud … right? If so, this is perfect mythbuster material. and we should petition that program to confirm (or bust) both experiments. If you agree go here http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/mythbusters/ and click on “submit a myth”. If there is enough demand maybe they will take up the challenge.

Dave Springer
October 19, 2011 8:43 pm

KevinK says:
October 19, 2011 at 5:07 pm
“The average temperature of the Earth is determined primarily by the MASSIVE thermal capacity of the Oceans.”
BINGO! Give the man a cigar.
Non-condensing greenhouse gases are important when the oceans are largely frozen over and thus can’t absorb energy from the sun. In that extreme case (which has happened a few times in the earth’s history) NCGHGs are the kindling that ignites the water cycle. CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere from volcanic emissions, soot collects on the snow surface, and between the two a frozen earth eventually thaws back out. One mustn’t forget that the earth and moon are made of essentially the same rocks with the same albedo so if it wasn’t for air and water the earth would be the same average temperature as the moon which is a chilly negative 23C.

vigilantfish
October 19, 2011 8:46 pm

Anthony, you have made an utterly clinical and meticulous scientific deconstuction of Gore’s ‘high school physics’ experiment. I flang funds to the wrong destination last time (Surface Stations). Clearly for your devastatingly precise experimental demolitions of egregious ‘scientific’ chacanery we should be helping to defray your expenses. I’m going to contribute shortly.
Although you got rid of the “Al Gore is an idiot” category (which I miss), please, please, please will you substitute some ‘truth in advertising’ and add the category ‘”Al Gore is parsimonious with the truth”. It’s not an ad hominem, just a statement of fact.

October 19, 2011 8:51 pm

R. Gates;
In your eagerness to weasel out of the wager you made with me, you neglected to answer the direct questions that I asked of you. Somethng we gentleman would never do unless by mistake, but a scoundrel would do deliberately. I’ll not suggest which I think you are, but figured I’d post the questions again and give you another crack at them.
1. You defended Gore’s “illustration” to no end, claiming that even though the results were faked, the experiment was more or less accurate in terms of the results “illustrated”. Will you now admit that the Gore rendition was an outright fraud showing results that not only were faked, but were in fact the OPPOSITE of what doing the experiment that was illustrated would have shown?
2. Do you continue to defend what Gore did in any way, shape, or form?
3. If you cannot defend what Gore did, will you issue a statement clearly condemning what he did?

Observer
October 19, 2011 8:57 pm

“Anthony Watts has proven that
Anchor Hocking Glass blocks
most infrared radiation.”
A more accurate inscription would be:
“Anthony Watts has proven that
Al Gore is a liar and a fraud
And davidmhoffer correctly observed that
R Gates was dumb enough to be taken in by and defend Gore’s lies and fraud”

PeterGeorge
October 19, 2011 9:02 pm

Excellent work, Mr. Watts. The best aspect of it, IMHO, is that it dramatically furthers the increasingly recognized point that skeptics are far more knowledgeable on climate science and science in general than the warmists.
Another point that could be made is that skeptics are more open-minded. One fun way we might drive that point home would be to have a contest for the best experiement that:
a) DOES work,
b) CORRECTLY demonstrates the basic “greenhouse” effect,
c) Might conceiveably be done in a high school classroom,.
A while ago, John Christy offered an exquisitely simple experiment that demonstrates back radiation ( a metal bar in a vacuum heated with fixed electrical power, with and without a nearby bar that is not externally heated ). I take it that experiment demostrates that if the atmosphere warms more because of CO2 the surface will cool more slowly after being heated by the sun (because of back radiation), and will therefore be warmer on average.
So, we only have to show that when a surface is heated to a temperature higher than an adjacent body of gas, the gas will warm faster if it has 600ppm CO2 than it will with 300ppm CO2.
Any takers?

October 19, 2011 9:05 pm

ferd burple;
When Dave Springer responds:
What heats a greenhouse is the sun. The glass allows the sunlight to enter but largely blocks the means by which it cools. There are four modes of heat loss: conduction, convection, evaporation, and radiation. The glass stops all of these except for conduction.>>>
He is correct, all of those processes are blocked to one exteny or another resulting in the greenhouse becoming warmer.
I also noticed a few people jumping on Springer’s comment that the experiment to show the actual “greenhouse effect” as it applies to global temps would have required a SW (visible light) source that was absorbed by something inside the glass jars and then re-radiated back as LW. While the purpose of the experiment Anthony did was in fact to refute Al Gore’s claim and nothing else, I think Springer and others are correct to point out how it should have been done if the “greenhouse effect” was actually going to be demonstrated.
This is a science site. The fallacy promolgated by Gore has been exposed for what it is. But science isn’t just about demonstrating the falsity of others, it is also about demonstrating the correct approach and displaying the correct results. I think Anthony has achieve the goals he set out to achieve, and in spades. I for one would like to see the experiment done correctly as Springer suggested, for the simple reason that it would show the “greenhouse effect” as it actually exists, and further underscore just how out to lunch Gore and company are on the science the purport to “know”.

October 19, 2011 9:12 pm

R. Gates;
“How sensitive is the climate to a 40% increase in CO2 in the atmosphere over the geologically short timespan of a few centuries?”>>>
Given that we’ve had a 40% increase since 1920, and we’ve seen little change at all, it appears the answer is “very insensitive”. So why you still all in a twist about it?

October 19, 2011 9:15 pm

Ammonia chemical formula in the table should be NH3 instead of H3S. Some other chemical formulas are not correct either. Thanks for the article and your good work!

KevinK
October 19, 2011 9:21 pm

Dave Springer wrote;
“BINGO! Give the man a cigar.”
Can I pick the brand of cigar ???
Not that it manners to me, I just want to find the truth.
Disclaimer; I have never received any funding from the evil “fossil fuel” industry, I’m just an engineer (BSEE 1980, MSEE 1981, MSOPTICS 1986, 20+ US Patents) that earns my pay by reconciling “observations” with “models”. Both are useful, but observations RULE outside of the climate “science” world.
Cheers, Kevin.

October 19, 2011 9:26 pm

Ditto what KevinK said — for transient heat conduction you want to compare the thermal diffusivities of the two gases. Using the calculator at UWaterloo (http://www.mhtl.uwaterloo.ca/old/onlinetools/airprop/airprop.html), I find that at 100F the values are:
alpha_air = 23.54E-6 m^2/s
alpha_CO2 = 11.96E-6 m^2/s
so the comparison seems to accord with your observation that the CO2 warms slower and cools slower. Since you are heating via contact with a warm upper plate, it seems plausible that natural convection effects are minimal.
I would discourage calling the diffusivity “the speed of heat” — the transient heat conduction equation is a diffusion equation, not a wave equation. Interestingly, there is a scaling equation that can be exploited. If you double the linear dimension, it should take four times as long to see the same warming to occur, ceteris paribus. Might want to purchase a couple of different-size cookie jars to test this.
BBB

R. Gates
October 19, 2011 10:04 pm

G. Karst says:
October 19, 2011 at 8:34
” This experiment doesn’t prove anything about CO2. ”
—–
Nor was Anthony’s meant to. It proved only that Anchor Hocking Glass will block most infrared and thus the experiment as illustrated in the 101 video could not possibly work as shown, unless somehow heat was transmitted down the tube or through the opening in the lid as this was the only apparent difference between the 101 video and Anthony’s video. In any event it such an effect would have nothing to do with how CO2 operates in Earth’s atmosphere.

October 19, 2011 10:07 pm

Long-wave short-wave? That’s a dated theorem. Greenhouses (actual-not gases) work by blocking convection.
I see Ferd has beat me here, so I’ll just agree. Leave it to the reader to search greenhouse convection

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