This will be a top “sticky” post for a day or two. New stories will appear below this one.
Readers may recall my previous essay where I pointed out how Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 Video, used in his “24 hours of climate reality”, had some serious credibility issues with editing things to make it appear as if they had actually performed the experiment, when they clearly did not. It has taken me awhile to replicate the experiment. Delays were a combination of acquisition and shipping problems, combined with my availability since I had to do this on nights and weekends. I worked initially using the original techniques and equipment, and I’ve replicated the Climate 101 experiment in other ways using improved equipment. I’ve compiled several videos. My report follows.
First. as a refresher, here’s the Climate 101 video again:
I direct your attention to the 1 minute mark, lasting through 1:30, where the experiment is presented.
And here’s my critique of it: Video analysis and scene replication suggests that Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project fabricated their Climate 101 video “Simple Experiment”
The most egregious faked presentation in that video was the scene with the split screen thermometers, edited to appear as if the temperature in the jar of elevated CO2 level was rising faster than the jar without elevated CO2 level.
It turns out that the thermometers were never in the jar recording the temperature rise presented in the split screen and the entire presentation was nothing but stagecraft and editing.
This was proven beyond a doubt by the photoshop differencing technique used to compare each side of the split screen. With the exception of the moving thermometer fluid, both sides were identical.

Exposing this lie to the viewers didn’t set well with some people, include the supposed “fairness” watchdogs over at Media Matters, who called the analysis a “waste of time”. Of course it’s only a “waste of time” when you prove their man Gore was faking the whole thing, otherwise they wouldn’t care. Personally I consider it a badge of honor for them to take notice because they usually reserve such vitriol for high profile news they don’t like, so apparently I have “arrived”.
The reason why I took so much time then to show this chicanery was Mr. Gore’s pronouncement in an interview the day the video aired.
His specific claim was:
“The deniers claim that it’s some kind of hoax and that the global scientific community is lying to people,” he said. “It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.” – Al Gore in an interview with MNN 9/14/2011
So easy a high school kid can do it. Right?
Bill Nye, in his narration at 0:48 in the video says:
You can replicate this effect yourself in a simple lab experiment, here’s how.
…and at 1:10 in the video Nye says:
Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.
So, I decided to find out if that was true and if anyone could really replicate that claim, or if this was just more stagecraft chicanery. I was betting that nobody on Gore’s production team actually did this experiment, or if they did do it, it wasn’t successful, because otherwise, why would they have to fake the results in post production?
The split screen video at 1:17, a screencap of which is a few paragraphs above shows a temperature difference of 2°F. Since Mr. Gore provided no other data, I’ll use that as the standard to meet for a successful experiment.
The first task is to get all the exact same equipment. Again, since Mr. Gore doesn’t provide anything other than the video, finding all of that took some significant effort and time. There’s no bill of materials to work with so I had to rely on finding each item from the visuals. While I found the cookie jars and oral thermometers early on, finding the lamp fixtures, the heat lamps for them, the CO2 tank and the CO2 tank valve proved to be more elusive. Surprisingly, the valve turned out to be the hardest of all items to locate, taking about two weeks from the time I started searching to the time I had located it, ordered it and it arrived. The reason? It isn’t called a valve, but rather a “In-Line On/Off Air Adapter”. Finding the terminology was half the battle. Another surprise was finding that the heat lamps and fixtures were for lizards and terrariums and not some general purpose use. Fortunately the fixtures and lamps were sold together by the same company. While the fixtures supported up to 150 watts, Mr. Gore made no specification on bulb type or wattage, so I chose the middle of the road 100 watt bulbs from the 50, 100, and 150 watt choices available.
I believe that I have done due diligence (as much as possible given no instructions from Gore) and located all the original equipment to accurately replicate the experiment as it was presented. Here’s the bill of materials and links to suppliers needed to replicate Al Gore’s experiment as it is shown in the Climate 101 video:
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BILL OF MATERIALS
QTY 2 Anchor Hocking Cookie Jar with Lid
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187543
QTY2 Geratherm Oral Thermometer Non-Mercury http://www.pocketnurse.com/Geratherm-Oral-Thermometer-Non-Mercury/productinfo/06-74-5826/
QTY 2 Globe Coin Bank
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150661053386
QTY 2 Fluker`s Repta Clamp-Lamp with Ceramic Sockets for Terrariums (max 150 watts, 8 1/2 Inch Bulb) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluker-s-Repta-Clamp-Lamp-150-watts-8-1-2-Inch-Bulb-/200663082632
QTY2 Zoo Med Red Infrared Heat Lamp 100W
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200594870618
QTY1 Empire – Pure Energy – Aluminum Co2 Tank – 20 oz
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190563856367
QTY 1 RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter
http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/rap4-in-line-on-off-air-adapter
QTY 1 flexible clear plastic hose, 48″ in length, from local Lowes hardware to fit RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter above.
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Additionally, since Mr. Gore never actually proved that CO2 had been released from the CO2 paintball tank into one of the jars, I ordered a portable CO2 meter for just that purpose:
It has a CO2 metering accuracy of: ± 50ppm ±5% reading value. While not laboratory grade, it works well enough to prove the existence of elevated CO2 concentrations in one of the jars. It uses a non-dispersive infrared diffusion sensor (NDIR) which is self calibrating, which seems perfect for the job.
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Once I got all of the equipment in, the job was to do some testing to make sure it all worked. I also wanted to be sure the two oral thermometers were calibrated such they read identically. For that, I prepared a water bath to conduct that experiment.
CAVEAT: For those that value form over substance, yes these are not slick professionally edited videos like Mr. Gore presented. They aren’t intended to be. They ARE intended to be a complete, accurate, and most importantly unedited record of the experimental work I performed. Bear in mind that while Mr. Gore has million$ to hire professional studios and editors, all I have is a consumer grade video camera, my office and my wits. If I were still working in broadcast television, you can bet I would have done this in the TV studio.
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STEP 1 Calibrate the Oral Thermometers
Here’s my first video showing how I calibrated the oral thermometers, which is very important if you want to have an accurate experimental result.
Note that the two thermometers read 98.1°F at the conclusion of the test, as shown in this screencap from my video @ about 5:35:
STEP 2 Calibrate the Infrared Thermometer
Since I plan to make use of an electronic Infrared thermometer in these experiments, I decided to calibrate it against the water bath also. Some folks may see this as unnecessary, since it is pre-calibrated, but I decided to do it anyway. It makes for interesting viewing
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STEP 3 Demonstrate how glass blocks IR using the Infrared Thermometer
The way an actual greenhouse works is by trapping infrared radiation. Glass is transparent to visible light, but not to infrared light, as we see below.
![greenhouseeffects[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/greenhouseeffects1.jpg?resize=400%2C459&quality=83)
By itself, that would be enough to declare the experiment invalid, but not only will I show the problem of the experimental setup being flawed, I’ll go to full on replication.
Using the warm water bath and the infrared thermometer, it becomes easy to demonstrate this effect.
Since Mr. Gore’s experiment used infrared heat lamps illuminating two glass jars, I decided to test that as well:
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STEP 4 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 10 minutes
At 1:10 in the Climate 101 video narrator Bill Nye the science guy says:
Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.
Since this is “simple high school physics” according to Mr. Gore, this should be a cinch to replicate. I took a “within minutes” from the narration to be just that, so I tried an experiment with 10 minutes of duration. I also explain the experimental setup and using the CO2 meter prove that CO2 is in fact injected into Jar “B”. My apologies for the rambling dialog, which wasn’t scripted, but explained as I went along. And, the camera work is one-handed while I’m speaking and setting up the experiment, so what it lacks in production quality it makes up in reality.
You’ll note that after 10 minutes, it appears there was no change in either thermometer. Also, remember these are ORAL thermometers, which hold the reading (so you can take it out of your mouth and hand it to mom and ask “can I stay home from school today”?). So for anyone concerned about the length of time after I turned off the lamps, don’t be. In order to reset the thermometers you have to shake them to force the liquid back down into the bulb.
Here’s the screencaps of the two thermometer readings from Jar A and B:
Clearly, 10 minutes isn’t enough time for the experiment to work. So let’s scratch off the idea from narration of “a few minutes” and go for a longer period:
RESULT: No change, no difference in temperature. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video. Inconclusive.
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STEP 5 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 30 minutes
Ok, identical setup as before, the only difference is time, the experiment runs 30 minutes long. I’ve added a digital timer you can watch as the experiment progresses.
And here are the screencaps from the video above of the results:
RESULT: slight rise and difference in temperature 97.4°F for Jar “A” Air, and 97.2°F for Jar “B” CO2. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video.
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STEP 6 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment, using digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes
In this experiment, I’m substituting the liquid in glass oral thermometers with some small self contained battery powered digital logging thermometers with LCD displays.
This model:
Details here
Specification Sheet / Manual
USB-2-LCD+ Temperature Datalogger
I used two identical units in the experiment replication:
And here are the results graphed by the application that comes with the datalogger. Red is Temperature, Blue is Humidity, Green is dewpoint
The graphs are automatically different vertical scales and thus can be a bit confusing, so I’ve take the raw data for each and graphed temperature only:
After watching my own video, I was concerned that maybe I was getting a bit of a direct line of the visible portion of the heat lamp into the sensor housing onto the thermistor, since they were turned on their side. So I ran the experiment again with the dataloggers mounted vertically in paper cups to ensure the thermistors were shielded from any direct radiation at any wavelength. See this video:
Both runs of the USB datalogger are graphed together below:
RESULTS:
Run 1 slight rise and difference in temperature 43.5°C for Jar “A” Air with Brief pulse to 44°C , and 43.0°C for Jar “B” CO2.
Run 2 had an ended with a 1°C difference, with plain air in Jar A being warmer than Jar “B with CO2.
Jar “A” Air temperature led Jar “B” CO2 during the entire experiment on both runs
The datalogger output files are available here:
JarA Air only run1.txt JarB CO2 run1.txt
JarA Air only run2.txt JarB CO2 run2.txt
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STEP 7 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using a high resolution NIST calibrated digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes
In this experiment I use a high resolution (0.1F resolution) and NIST calibrated data logger with calibrated probes. Data was collected over my LAN to special software. This is the datalogger model:
Data sheet: Model E Series And the software used to log data is described here
Here’s the experiment:
I had to spend a lot of time waiting for the Jar “B” probe to come to parity with Jar “A” due to the cooling effect of the CO2 I introduced. As we all know, when a gas expands it cools, and that’s exactly what happens to CO2 released under pressure. You can see the effect early in the flat area of the graph below.
Here’s the end result screencap real-time graphing software used in the experiment, click the image to expand the graph full size.
RESULTS:
Peak value Jar A with air was at 18:04 117.3°F
Peak value Jar B with CO2 was at 18:04 116.7°F
Once again, air led CO2 through the entire experiment.
Note that I allowed this experiment to go through a cool down after I turned off the Infrared heat lamps, which is the slope after the peak. Interestingly, while Jar “A” (probe1 in green) with Air, led Jar “B” (Probe 2 in red) with CO2, the positions reversed shortly after the lamps turned off.
The CO2 filled jar was now losing heat slower than the plain air jar, even though plain air Jar “A” had warmed slightly faster than the CO2 Jar “B”.
Here’s the datalogger output files for each probe:
Climate101-replication-Probe01-(JarA – Air).csv
Climate101-replication-Probe02-(JarB – CO2).csv
Climate101-replication-Probe03-(Ambient Air).csv
What could explain this reversal after the lamps were turned off? The answer is here at the Engineer’s Edge in the form of this table:
Heat Transfer Table of Content
This chart gives the thermal conductivity of gases as a function of temperature.
Unless otherwise noted, the values refer to a pressure of 100 kPa (1 bar) or to the saturation vapor pressure if that is less than 100 kPa.
The notation P = 0 indicates the low pressure limiting value is given. In general, the P = 0 and P = 100 kPa values differ by less than 1%.
Units are milliwatts per meter kelvin.
Note the values for Air and for CO2 that I highlighted in the 300K column. 300K is 80.3°F.
Air is a better conductor of heat than CO2.
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So, here is what I think is going on with Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment.
- As we know, the Climate101 video used infrared heat lamps
- The glass cookie jars chosen don’t allow the full measure of infrared from the lamps to enter the center of the jar and affect the gas. I showed this two different ways with the infrared camera in videos above.
- During the experiments, I showed the glass jars heating up using the infrared camera. Clearly they were absorbing the infrared energy from the lamps.
- The gases inside the jars, air and pure CO2 thus had to be heated by secondary heat emission from the glass as it was being heated. They were not absorbing infrared from the lamps, but rather heat from contact with the glass.
- Per the engineering table, air is a better conductor of heat than pure CO2, so it warms faster, and when the lamps are turned off, it cools faster.
- The difference value of 2°F shown in the Climate 101 video split screen was never met in any of the experiments I performed.
- The condition stated in the Climate 101 video of “Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.” was not met in any of the experiments I performed. In fact it was exactly the opposite. Air consistently warmed faster than CO2.
- Thus, the experiment as designed by Mr. Gore does not show the greenhouse effect as we know it in our atmosphere, it does show how heat transfer works and differences in heat transfer rates with different substances, but nothing else.
Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment is falsified, and could not work given the equipment he specified. If they actually tried to perform the experiment themselves, perhaps this is why they had to resort to stagecraft in the studio to fake the temperature rise on the split screen thermometers.
The experiment as presented by Al Gore and Bill Nye “the science guy” is a failure, and not representative of the greenhouse effect related to CO2 in our atmosphere. The video as presented, is not only faked in post production, the premise is also false and could never work with the equipment they demonstrated. Even with superior measurement equipment it doesn’t work, but more importantly, it couldn’t work as advertised.
The design failure was the glass cookie jar combined with infrared heat lamps.
Gore FAIL.
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UPDATE: 4PM PST Some commenters are taking away far more than intended from this essay. Therefore I am repeating this caveat I posted in my first essay where I concentrated on the video editing and stagecraft issues:
I should make it clear that I’m not doubting that CO2 has a positive radiative heating effect in our atmosphere, due to LWIR re-radiation, that is well established by science. What I am saying is that Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project did a poor job of demonstrating an experiment, so poor in fact that they had to fabricate portions of the presentation, and that the experiment itself (if they actually did it, we can’t tell) would show a completely different physical mechanism than what actually occurs in our atmosphere.
No broader take away (other than the experiment was faked and fails) was intended, expressed or implied – Anthony















Mike Jonas says:
October 19, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Kudos to Anthony, but a bit of kudos to R Gates as well. Bear in mind that R Gates’ initial comment on this thread began “This was an excellent job Anthony. I commend your diligence in carrying this out, and I agree with your final analysis.” and ended “But this matters not…as in the end, I fully agree that I would have lost the bet on whether the experiment as illustrated in the 101 video would have worked or not (even though your’s was not exactly the same). Your analysis on why the illustrated experiment would not work is spot on, and is exactly why the BBC and Mythbusters experiments were successful.“.
BTW, I’m not saying that there’s nothing to disagree with in R Gates’ comments (or with Anthony’s experiments for that matter), but I think it reasonable to recognise that R Gates’ comments have been thoughtful and positive – something to be welcomed in this highly polarised debate.
Thoughtful and positive? By deflecting to more dubious science experiments pretending they are proven? How were the BBC and Mythbusters experiments successful?
Typical deflection – to more unproven claims in experiments masquerading as science. Take us through the BBC and Mythbusters steps and prove they were “successful”.
All the experiments produced by AGWScience Fiction are junk science deliberately designed to appear real life physics fact – this is deliberate deception, proving malice aforethought, corrupt minds planning and executing mass deception, unconscionable in any circumstances, but even more so as children are targetted (and by extension the child they were when they trusted Nye). And those defending this in any way, knowingly or unknowingly, are party to the deception.
What is so difficult to understand here? They wouldn’t have to cheat if the science was real.
I have pivacy shades fitted to the rear windows of my car and guess what, they keep the the rear passengers and the car cool. But how can they as they are fitted inside the glass and the IR energy must be trapped in the car and as they are a fine mesh the heated air behind them should find it’s way into the car?
So easy a high school kid can do it. Right?
——–
Well the experiment is high school physics but properly understanding the greenhouse effect is well beyond high school physics.
Al Gore is being very naive to call it high school physics since there are a lot of subtleties involved.
Here are the points of naivety about the whole thing:
1. The Al Gore experiment itself is not a valid ‘proof’ of the green house effect , since the thermal conductivity of 100% CO2 is much lower than that of air. In other words it is not a true controlled experiment since any differential warming could be reasonably attributed to the difference in conductivity.
2. If you use more climate realistic amounts of CO2 the temperature difference will be too small to measure.
3. The use of infrared lamps is bogus as far as the atmospheric greenhouse effect is concerned. Just normal visible incandescents would do just as well, since in the actual green house effect the heating effect comes from the sun.
Mr. Gore was attempting to demonstrate this effect in his setup, but there’s an obvious problem: he used infrared heat lamps rather than visible light lamps. Thus, it seems highly likely that the glass jars would block the incoming infrared, and convert it to heat. That being the case, the infrared radiative backscattering effect that makes up the greenhouse effect in our atmosphere couldn’t possibly be demonstrated here in the Climate 101 video.
————
No. It’s not the case.
The typical near infrared lamp used for heating has a distribution of wavelengths that is close to that of the visible spectrum.
These near IR wavelengths are perfectly able to penetrate normal glass. Therefore the concern is not justified.
Just check out the emission curves of these IR lamps and compare it to the transmission curve for glass to see what I mean. Google is your friend.
For the thermal IR produced by emission from the earth’s surface it’s a completely different story. Then you need exotic materials like germanium or zinc selenide optics.
But as I explained before. The use of near IR lamps is a distraction. Both these lamps or just plain ordinary ones would work equally well.
Basically Al Gore understands the green house effect just as well as the WUWT readership. In other words at the level of a metaphor and without deep understanding.
Brian H says:
October 19, 2011 at 10:19 pm
Steve from Rockwood says:
October 19, 2011 at 11:59 am
…
So if I have the curtains closed, the visible light still travels through the glass and is presumably converted to IR which is then prevented from leaving back through the glass. To make things even more confusing, the area between the glass and the curtain doesn’t heat up very much. The curtains are very light in color. The windows are always closed.
My belief is that the IR is not created until the visible light is absorbed by the dark floor but I have no idea.
Myrrh will be along shortly to explain to you why you can’t possibly have observed that. Laugh tolerantly, but don’t respond. It will make you a permanent target for reams of unphysics.
I wasn’t going to.. But since you’ve invoked my name and piled on more ad hominem spreading it I now need to give my side of it.
As in these carbon dioxide claims, people take AGWScience fiction memes for granted because they’re now ubiqitous having been successfully introduced into the education system to support the AGW claims, we now have a whole generation of adults who have been learning fictional physics. One such is the very basis of the energy budget, that shortwave radiation (Visible/UV/Near IR) from the Sun heats the land and oceans and produces thermal infrared, and that thermal infrared direct from the Sun plays no part in heating land and oceans.
I have asked for proof. But so far no one has shown any mechanism or experimental proof that Visible light is even capable of heating land and oceans. Instead I get attacked because of their failure, to detract from their failure.
Visible light doesn’t have the power to move molecules of water which is how matter is heated up. Visible light from the Sun works on electronic transitional level, that is, on a sub atomic level, it isn’t capable of moving the whole atom or molecule. You’ll need to get a sense of scale here. Moreover, Visible light gets bounced back out by the electrons of the molecules of oxygen and nitrogen in our atmosphere scattering it – proving that the atmosphere is not transparent to Visible as the ‘AGW greenhouse’ claim has it. Moreover, water is a transparent medium to Visible light, the molecules of water don’t even let Visible light in to play with their electrons, after trying for a bit, visible light moves on, this is called transmission. It can’t even get in to play with the electrons, let alone move the whole molecule to vibration.
In classic physics the difference between these shortwave non-thermal energies and the longer invisible thermal infrared, the thermal energy of the Sun on the move, are categorised as Light and Heat. You will not be able to read older science discussions with real comprehension unless this is understood. They never use terms like heat energy to refer to shortwave light. Shortwave light is not hot, is not thermal, is not heat, we do not feel it as heat.
Back to what Steve was describing. You don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of understanding what is happening as long as you believe the fiction that visible light heats floors. And, if that is your claim you should prove it because it goes against all known traditional tried and tested and physics used in countless applications.
And here is another example of how this is deliberate deceit, malicious in conception and acts to deliberately dumb down science education in support of AGW as I discovered a short while ago here:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/28/spencer-and-braswell-on-slashdot/#comment-711614
Please, do make an effort to read this carefully. NASA used to teach children that the heat we feel from the Sun is the invisible thermal infrared, (and that we can’t even feel near infrared because it is not hot, not thermal), now AGWScience says that this thermal infrared, heat from the Sun, plays no part in heating land and oceans. If you can’t see the disjunct in that then further explanation will be useless as long as you continue to repeat a fictional science meme without giving any mechanism or example of how visible light heats land and oceans. Put up or shut up, I’m getting very tired of asking for science fact on a science blog and getting this idiotic ad homs for answers instead.
So what’s the new fictional meme? That the visible light we see from the Sun or an incandescent light bulb is thermal energy from the Sun! And you think you’ve not been dumbed down??
In reality around 95% of an incandescent lightbulb’s energy is heat, thermal infrared, only 5% visible light. It’s thermal energy, thermal infrared, which is capable of moving atoms and molecules to vibrational states, heating them up, visible light cannot do this.
As NASA used to teach traditional real world physical fact about this and now doesn’t and the ‘science’ around now is geared to promotion of this misinformation, I don’t have any reason to trust any figures for how much thermal energy, thermal infrared not visible, reaches the Earth. Here is something from the beginnings of our understanding of the science here, which gives a figure of 43% heat, thermal infrared, reaching Earth:
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/056/mwr-056-08-0322.pdf
This is the real heat we feel from the Sun. The real heat which is the invisible thermal infrared capable of heating you up inside and the water and land around you.
Do not repeat your ad homs in lieu of answering my request for proof of your claims against traditional still well known physics.
The simplest way I can think if to have a controlled experiment is to use one glass jar with 100% CO2 and another glass jar with 100% argon.
These gases have thermal conductivities which are very similar. (since the molar masses are 44 and 40 respectively).
To make it easy on yourself just use;
1. normal incandescent globes,
2. use metal spheres painted black to convert the mainly IR plus visible of the lamp into heat
3. and place the thermometer bulb in contact with the metal sphere and use some method to ensure good thermal contact
4. Put the lamp on the opposite side to the thermometer.
Last year I tried the same experiment using glass soda bottles, type k thermocouples, data logger, and CO2 from painball. I put the bottles under a heat lamp and also tried them outside in full sunlight. I too couldn’t measure a temperature difference over hours of monitoring.
Smokey says
After all this time, Gates still doesn’t understand the fact that rises in CO2 are the effect of temperature rises, not the cause:
——–
Hi Smokey, but the ice cores say the delay between ocean heating and the release of CO2 is 800 years. So why is there no delay now?
Easiest conclusion is that now is different from the past for some reason.
Werner Brozek says: October 19, 2011 at 10:23 pm
“I completely agree that air warms faster and cools faster, but NOT because of conductivity. I believe it WARMS faster due to its lower specific heat capacity.”
Conductivity is linked to specific heat capacity. That makes sense. But Air has a HIGHER specific heat capacity than CO2 ~ 1.005 to ~0.846 kJ/kgK according to The Engineering Toolbox
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/carbon-dioxide-d_974.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-properties-d_156.html
Bill Illis says
That should put an END to all these same kind of experiments (and some people have some serious explaining to do).
———-
No it should be the START of these kinds of experiments.
As Steve Mosher says, this kind of experiment falls a long way short of matching the way the green house operates in the real atmosphere.
BUT these kinds of experiments, if done properly, would eliminate some of the junk ideas that keep on getting put forward over and over again by the armchair philosophers.
Myrrh October 19, 2011 at 4:47 am
Let’s hope… The AGWScience Fiction department continues to create ‘experiments’ and give ‘examples’ which have no basis in physical reality. This begins with the ‘energy budget’, claiming that Visible light heats land and oceans. How? It’s not physically possible.
Not only is it physically possible, but it is true. The “how” is that the land is not transparent to visible light, nor is it extremely reflective to it. The oceans, not so much, but still, some. Climate scientists did not invent this.
So many have bought into this, even scientists clever in their own fields, that it is presumed true because now ubiquitous, it became ubiquitous through the education system.
You underestimate scientists to a fantastic degree. If visible light could not heat land and ocean, every physicist in the world would be jumping up and down about it. I find it hard to see how you don’t realize that you don’t know what you’re talking about. In that sense, your messages are interesting.
Anthony, you are the greatest. All of your endeavours, from the ultra-serious surface stations project(s) to lighter stuff like Kenji the Concerned Scientist to your sharp debunking of Al Gore’s chicanery – it’s like you’re the sceptic with the most viscious knife. The damage you do is so considerable. Please keep butchering the bastards.
This is great, Anthony is to be congratulated. “Hi” to the plebs reading from MediaMatters, how does it feel to be owned? I would presume it’s not an unfamiliar feeling for your kind.
Real physics as traditionally taught knows the difference between Light and Heat, real world applications prove it.
Traditional science based on real physics is everywhere proved around you, learn to look. Countless applications from applied science which are not, and cannot be, be built on AGWScience Fiction Inc’s imaginary, impossible, memes.
Which is why no proof is ever forthcoming..
Thermal capture plates:
This is capturing the real heat source on Earth, the thermal infrared heat energy direct from the Sun, the thermal energy from the Sun which heats matter directly by moving molecules to vibrational states, temperature being the measure of the intensity of this. That invisible thermal energy from the Sun we feel as heat and which warms us up here on the surface, which reaches us in eight and a half minutes.
How well can both methods be used together?
As I’ve said, real world physics as taught by traditional science knows the differences. Only an idiot would try to heat a copper plate with visible light after learning about heat and light in real world physics..
..so no experiments to prove that visible light heats land and oceans because those promoting this AGW science fiction are not ignorant about real science and this not as easily fudged as the heating carbon dioxide experiment here. But the latter is the poster child of all these deceitful experiments presented as proving AGW.
What Anthony has done here is momentous. Crack this one wide open and it could lead to a flood of critical thinking coming back into science education and general consciousness, now blocked by the barrier of constantly repeated impossible science fiction memes.
Henry@Zac
I think the idea behind these things is that the window with the black of the shade behind it, starts acting as a mirror sending a lot of radiation back. I know they do work, we have it too.
Thank you Anthony!
That was a great debunking.
I have sometimes thought about these experiments and wondered what are the results with some unreasonably high level of carbon dioxide (methane, dry air vs. water saturated air) in the jar, say 10%, 100%, and using other wavelengths, and other jar materials.
Of course, the result is bit off topic; as you have already shown Al Gore is has faked it.
Thank you for a fascinating article.
R Gates
“Smokey doesn’t
seem to understandagree with my understanding of the nature of positive feedbacks, northeagree with what “consensus science” claims as fact that some increases of CO2 in the atmosphere have nothing to do with temperature and thus can be considered a forcing upon the climate.”I think that puts the matter in a more scientific style of observations.
After that we can start on the evidence. Like so many billion years’ geological evidence of the lack of positive feedbacks or “tipping points” with CO2, starting with the ice core records that show that today’s temperature fluctuations are well within natural limits. Like the lack of evidence that humankind has matured intellectually beyond medieval-attitude witchhunts based on bad science.
The car window Privacy shades are black.
I like the way R Gates and Lazy Teenager pontificate, giving their opinions on Anthony’s replication experiment – without lifting a finger to do their own experiments, while Anthony does the actual work.
Gates says: “…increases of CO2 in the atmosphere have nothing to do with temperature and thus can be considered a forcing upon the climate.” Wrong, as usual. CO2 has a small effect on temperature. The effect is beneficial and has caused no problems. And where did the “forcing” go? See the link below.
Lazy T says: “…the ice cores say the delay between ocean heating and the release of CO2 is 800 years. So why is there no delay now? Easiest conclusion is that now is different from the past for some reason.” A typical argumentum ad ignorantium: ‘CO2 must be the cause, because I can’t think of anything else.’
The 800 year delay is the approximate time span from the end of the global MWP to now. And the current rise in CO2 has not had the claimed effect on temperature.
There is much more to the climate than in Gates’ and Lazy’s CO2-limited world.
R Gates
Here is more material that carefully explains feedback: how we know that the feedbacks have been grossly overstated, and that natural feedbacks are almost always negative.
Click my name, then click “Skeptics Climate Science Powerpoint presentation” in the top right hand corner. I’ve utilized and developed Warren Meyer’s presentation that spells out the feedback issues even more slowly and carefully. I am very grateful to Meyer for giving me a perfect springboard to develop my own presentation further.
Go to slides 13 thru 17 in particular – but put them in context, and check the grounds on which Meyer (rightly) claims expertise in this area.
Thank you Myrrh for your post at 2:36 I’m going to bookmark that, fascinating stuff. I never realised how much bad science is being used.
Anthony – your post is still showing the false mechanism for how a greenhouse works. It would improve your post if you corrected it, otherwise it is open to be rejected because wrong in part (the description of the basic principle).
LazyTeenager says: October 20, 2011 at 3:03 am
Smokey says
After all this time, Gates still doesn’t understand the fact that rises in CO2 are the effect of temperature rises, not the cause:
——–
Hi Smokey, but the ice cores say the delay between ocean heating and the release of CO2 is 800 years. So why is there no delay now?
A Huxley moment “The Lord hath delivered him into my hands…”
Think about what happened 800 years ago. Looks like we have verification for (a) the 800-year delay (b) the primary CO2 link to the oceans whose global thermohaline current is of the order of 800 years (c) the Medieval Warm Period. Thanks for reminding me.
To nitpickers, who also do an important job in Science, please note I say “verification” not “proof”.
Dave Springer says:
October 19, 2011 at 8:15 pm
I’m afraid that’s wrong. What heats a greenhouse is the sun. The glass allows the sunlight to enter but largely blocks the means by which it cools.
Wikipedia does not agree with you:
“Thus, the primary heating mechanism of a greenhouse is convection. This can be demonstrated by opening a small window near the roof of a greenhouse: the temperature drops considerably.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse
R. Gates;
In your eagerness to weasel out of the wager you made with me, you neglected to answer the direct questions that I asked of you. Somethng we gentleman would never do unless by mistake, but a scoundrel would do deliberately. I’ll not suggest which I think you are, but figured I’d post the questions again and give you another crack at them.
1. You defended Gore’s “illustration” to no end, claiming that even though the results were faked, the experiment was more or less accurate in terms of the results “illustrated”. Will you now admit that the Gore rendition was an outright fraud showing results that not only were faked, but were in fact the OPPOSITE of what doing the experiment that was illustrated would have shown?
2. Do you continue to defend what Gore did in any way, shape, or form?
3. If you cannot defend what Gore did, will you issue a statement clearly condemning what he did?