Replicating Al Gore's Climate 101 video experiment shows that his "high school physics" could never work as advertised

This will be a top “sticky” post for a day or two. New stories will appear below this one.

Readers may recall my previous essay where I pointed out how Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 Video, used in his “24 hours of climate reality”, had some serious credibility issues with editing things to make it appear as if they had actually performed the experiment, when they clearly did not. It has taken me awhile to replicate the experiment. Delays were a combination of acquisition and shipping problems, combined with my availability since I had to do this on nights and weekends. I worked initially using the original techniques and equipment, and I’ve replicated the Climate 101 experiment in other ways using improved equipment. I’ve compiled several videos. My report follows.

First. as a refresher, here’s the Climate 101 video again:

I direct your attention to the 1 minute mark, lasting through 1:30, where the experiment is presented.

And here’s my critique of it: Video analysis and scene replication suggests that Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project fabricated their Climate 101 video “Simple Experiment”

The most egregious faked presentation in that video was the scene with the split screen thermometers, edited to appear as if the temperature in the jar of elevated CO2 level was rising faster than the jar without elevated CO2 level.

It turns out that the thermometers were never in the jar recording the temperature rise presented in the split screen and the entire presentation was nothing but stagecraft and editing.

This was proven beyond a doubt by the photoshop differencing technique used to compare each side of the split screen. With the exception of the moving thermometer fluid, both sides were identical.

difference process run at full resolution - click to enlarge

Exposing this lie to the viewers didn’t set well with some people, include the supposed “fairness” watchdogs over at Media Matters, who called the analysis a “waste of time”. Of course it’s only a “waste of time” when you prove their man Gore was faking the whole thing, otherwise they wouldn’t care. Personally I consider it a badge of honor for them to take notice because they usually reserve such vitriol for high profile news they don’t like, so apparently I have “arrived”.

The reason why I took so much time then to show this chicanery was Mr. Gore’s pronouncement in an interview the day the video aired.

His specific claim was:

“The deniers claim that it’s some kind of hoax and that the global scientific community is lying to people,” he said. “It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.” – Al Gore in an interview with MNN 9/14/2011

So easy a high school kid can do it. Right?

Bill Nye, in his narration at 0:48 in the video says:

You can replicate this effect yourself in a simple lab experiment, here’s how.

…and at 1:10 in the video Nye says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

So, I decided to find out if that was true and if anyone could really replicate that claim, or if this was just more stagecraft chicanery. I was betting that nobody on Gore’s production team actually did this experiment, or if they did do it, it wasn’t successful, because otherwise, why would they have to fake the results in post production?

The split screen video at 1:17, a screencap of which is a few paragraphs above shows a temperature difference of 2°F. Since Mr. Gore provided no other data, I’ll use that as the standard to meet for a successful experiment.

The first task is to get all the exact same equipment. Again, since Mr. Gore doesn’t provide anything other than the video, finding all of that took some significant effort and time. There’s no bill of materials to work with so I had to rely on finding each item from the visuals. While I found the cookie jars and oral thermometers early on, finding the lamp fixtures, the heat lamps for them, the CO2 tank and the CO2 tank valve proved to be more elusive. Surprisingly, the valve turned out to be the hardest of all items to locate, taking about two weeks from the time I started searching to the time I had located it, ordered it and it arrived. The reason? It isn’t called a valve, but rather a “In-Line On/Off Air Adapter”. Finding the terminology was half the battle. Another surprise was finding that the heat lamps and fixtures were for lizards and terrariums and not some general purpose use. Fortunately the fixtures and lamps were sold together by the same company. While the fixtures supported up to 150 watts, Mr. Gore made no specification on bulb type or wattage, so I chose the middle of the road 100 watt bulbs from the 50, 100, and 150 watt choices available.

I believe that I have done due diligence (as much as possible given no instructions from Gore) and located all the original equipment to accurately replicate the experiment as it was presented. Here’s the bill of materials and links to suppliers needed to replicate Al Gore’s experiment as it is shown in the Climate 101 video:

====================================================

BILL OF MATERIALS

QTY 2 Anchor Hocking Cookie Jar with Lid

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187543

QTY2 Geratherm Oral Thermometer Non-Mercury http://www.pocketnurse.com/Geratherm-Oral-Thermometer-Non-Mercury/productinfo/06-74-5826/

QTY 2 Globe Coin Bank

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150661053386

QTY 2 Fluker`s Repta Clamp-Lamp with Ceramic Sockets for Terrariums (max 150 watts, 8 1/2 Inch Bulb) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluker-s-Repta-Clamp-Lamp-150-watts-8-1-2-Inch-Bulb-/200663082632

QTY2 Zoo Med Red Infrared Heat Lamp 100W

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200594870618

QTY1 Empire – Pure Energy – Aluminum Co2 Tank – 20 oz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190563856367

QTY 1 RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/rap4-in-line-on-off-air-adapter

QTY 1 flexible clear plastic hose, 48″ in length, from local Lowes hardware to fit RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter above.

====================================================

Additionally, since Mr. Gore never actually proved that CO2 had been released from the CO2 paintball tank into one of the jars, I ordered a portable CO2 meter for just that purpose:

It has a CO2 metering accuracy of: ± 50ppm ±5% reading value. While not laboratory grade, it works well enough to prove the existence of elevated CO2 concentrations in one of the jars. It uses a non-dispersive infrared diffusion sensor (NDIR) which is self calibrating, which seems perfect for the job.

carbon dioxide temperature humidity monitorData Sheet

===================================================

Once I got all of the equipment in, the job was to do some testing to make sure it all worked. I also wanted to be sure the two oral thermometers were calibrated such they read identically. For that, I prepared a water bath to conduct that experiment.

CAVEAT: For those that value form over substance, yes these are not slick professionally edited videos like Mr. Gore presented. They aren’t intended to be. They ARE intended to be a complete, accurate, and most importantly unedited record of the experimental work I performed. Bear in mind that while Mr. Gore has million$ to hire professional studios and editors, all I have is a consumer grade video camera, my office and my wits. If I were still working in broadcast television, you can bet I would have done this in the TV studio.

==============================================================

STEP 1 Calibrate the Oral Thermometers

Here’s my first video showing how I calibrated the oral thermometers, which is very important if you want to have an accurate experimental result.

Note that the two thermometers read 98.1°F at the conclusion of the test, as shown in this screencap from my video @ about 5:35:

STEP 2 Calibrate the Infrared Thermometer

Since I plan to make use of an electronic Infrared thermometer in these experiments, I decided to calibrate it against the water bath also. Some folks may see this as unnecessary, since it is pre-calibrated, but I decided to do it anyway. It makes for interesting viewing

==============================================================

STEP 3 Demonstrate how glass blocks IR using  the Infrared Thermometer

The way an actual greenhouse works is by trapping infrared radiation. Glass is transparent to visible light, but not to infrared light, as we see below.

Image from: greenhousesonline.com.au
Mr. Gore was attempting to demonstrate this effect in his setup, but there’s an obvious problem: he used infrared heat lamps rather than visible light lamps. Thus, it seems highly likely that the glass jars would block the incoming infrared, and convert it to heat. That being the case, the infrared radiative backscattering effect that makes up the greenhouse effect in our atmosphere couldn’t possibly be demonstrated here in the Climate 101 video.

By itself, that would be enough to declare the experiment invalid, but not only will I show the problem of the experimental setup being flawed, I’ll go to full on replication.

Using the warm water bath and the infrared thermometer, it becomes easy to demonstrate this effect.

Since Mr. Gore’s experiment used infrared heat lamps illuminating two glass jars, I decided to test that as well:

==============================================================

STEP 4 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 10 minutes

At 1:10 in the Climate 101 video narrator Bill Nye the science guy says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

Since this is “simple high school physics” according to Mr. Gore, this should be a cinch to replicate. I took a “within minutes” from the narration to be just that, so I tried an experiment with 10 minutes of duration. I also explain the experimental setup and using the CO2 meter prove that CO2 is in fact injected into Jar “B”. My apologies for the rambling dialog, which wasn’t scripted, but explained as I went along. And, the camera work is one-handed while I’m speaking and setting up the experiment, so what it lacks in production quality it makes up in reality.

You’ll note that after 10 minutes, it appears there was no change in either thermometer. Also, remember these are ORAL thermometers, which hold the reading (so you can take it out of your mouth and hand it to mom and ask “can I stay home from school today”?). So for anyone concerned about the length of time after I turned off the lamps, don’t be. In order to reset the thermometers you have to shake them to force the liquid back down into the bulb.

Here’s the screencaps of the two thermometer readings from Jar A and B:

Clearly, 10 minutes isn’t enough time for the experiment to work. So let’s scratch off the idea from narration of “a few minutes” and go for a longer period:

RESULT: No change, no difference in temperature. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video. Inconclusive.

==============================================================

STEP 5 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 30 minutes

Ok, identical setup as before, the only difference is time, the experiment runs 30 minutes long. I’ve added a digital timer you can watch as the experiment progresses.

And here are the screencaps from the video above of the results:

RESULT: slight rise and difference in temperature 97.4°F for Jar “A” Air, and 97.2°F for Jar “B” CO2. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video.

==============================================================

STEP 6 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment, using digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment, I’m substituting the liquid in glass oral thermometers with some small self contained battery powered digital logging thermometers with LCD displays.

This model:

Details here

Specification Sheet / Manual

USB-2-LCD+ Temperature Datalogger

I used two identical units in the experiment replication:

And here are the results graphed by the application that comes with the datalogger. Red is Temperature, Blue is Humidity, Green is dewpoint

The graphs are automatically different vertical scales and thus can be a bit confusing, so I’ve take the raw data for each and graphed temperature only:

After watching my own video, I was concerned that maybe I was getting a bit of a direct line of the visible portion of the heat lamp into the sensor housing onto the thermistor, since they were turned on their side. So I ran the experiment again with the dataloggers mounted vertically in paper cups to ensure the thermistors were shielded from any direct radiation at any wavelength. See this video:

Both runs of the USB datalogger are graphed together below:

RESULTS:

Run 1 slight rise and difference in temperature 43.5°C for Jar “A” Air with Brief pulse to 44°C , and 43.0°C for Jar “B” CO2.

Run 2 had an ended with a 1°C difference, with plain air in Jar A being warmer than Jar “B with CO2.

Jar “A” Air temperature led Jar “B” CO2 during the entire experiment on both runs

The datalogger output files are available here:

JarA Air only run1.txt  JarB CO2 run1.txt

JarA Air only run2.txt JarB CO2 run2.txt

==============================================================

STEP 7 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using a high resolution NIST calibrated digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment I use a high resolution (0.1F resolution) and NIST calibrated data logger with calibrated probes. Data was collected over my LAN to special software. This is the datalogger model:

Data sheet: Model E Series And the software used to log data is described here

Here’s the experiment:

I had to spend a lot of time waiting for the Jar “B” probe to come to parity with Jar “A” due to the cooling effect of the CO2 I introduced. As we all know, when a gas expands it cools, and that’s exactly what happens to CO2 released under pressure. You can see the effect early in the flat area of the graph below.

Here’s the end result screencap real-time graphing software used in the experiment, click the image to expand the graph full size.

RESULTS:

Peak value Jar A with air  was at 18:04 117.3°F

Peak value Jar B with CO2 was at 18:04 116.7°F

Once again, air led CO2 through the entire experiment.

Note that I allowed this experiment to go through a cool down after I turned off the Infrared heat lamps, which is the slope after the peak. Interestingly, while Jar “A” (probe1 in green) with Air, led Jar “B” (Probe 2 in red) with CO2, the positions reversed shortly after the lamps turned off.

The CO2 filled jar was now losing heat slower than the plain air jar, even though plain air Jar “A” had warmed slightly faster than the CO2 Jar “B”.

Here’s the datalogger output files for each probe:

Climate101-replication-Probe01-(JarA – Air).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe02-(JarB – CO2).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe03-(Ambient Air).csv

What could explain this reversal after the lamps were turned off? The answer is here at the Engineer’s Edge in the form of this table:

Heat Transfer Table of Content

This chart gives the thermal conductivity of gases as a function of temperature.

Unless otherwise noted, the values refer to a pressure of 100 kPa (1 bar) or to the saturation vapor pressure if that is less than 100 kPa.

The notation P = 0 indicates the low pressure limiting value is given. In general, the P = 0 and P = 100 kPa values differ by less than 1%.

Units are milliwatts per meter kelvin.

Note the values for Air and for CO2 that I highlighted in the 300K column. 300K is 80.3°F.

Air is a better conductor of heat than CO2.

==============================================================

So, here is what I think is going on with Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment.

  1. As we know, the Climate101 video used infrared heat lamps
  2. The glass cookie jars chosen don’t allow the full measure of infrared from the lamps to enter the center of the jar and affect the gas. I showed this two different ways with the infrared camera in videos above.
  3. During the experiments, I showed the glass jars heating up using the infrared camera. Clearly they were absorbing the infrared energy from the lamps.
  4. The gases inside the jars, air and pure CO2 thus had to be heated by secondary heat emission from the glass as it was being heated. They were not absorbing infrared from the lamps, but rather heat from contact with the glass.
  5. Per the engineering table, air is a better conductor of heat than pure CO2, so it warms faster, and when the lamps are turned off, it cools faster.
  6. The difference value of 2°F shown in the Climate 101 video split screen was never met in any of the experiments I performed.
  7. The condition stated in the Climate 101 video of “Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.” was not met in any of the experiments I performed. In fact it was exactly the opposite. Air consistently warmed faster than CO2.
  8. Thus, the experiment as designed by Mr. Gore does not show the greenhouse effect as we know it in our atmosphere, it does show how heat transfer works and differences in heat transfer rates with different substances, but nothing else.

Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment is falsified, and could not work given the equipment he specified. If they actually tried to perform the experiment themselves, perhaps this is why they had to resort to stagecraft in the studio to fake the temperature rise on the split screen thermometers.

The experiment as presented by Al Gore and Bill Nye “the science guy” is a failure, and not representative of the greenhouse effect related to CO2 in our atmosphere. The video as presented, is not only faked in post production, the premise is also false and could never work with the equipment they demonstrated. Even with superior measurement equipment it doesn’t work, but more importantly, it couldn’t work as advertised.

The design failure was the glass cookie jar combined with infrared heat lamps.

Gore FAIL.

=============================================================

UPDATE: 4PM PST Some commenters are taking away far more than intended from this essay. Therefore I am repeating this caveat I posted in my first essay where I concentrated on the video editing and stagecraft issues:

I should make it clear that I’m not doubting that CO2 has a positive radiative heating effect in our atmosphere, due to LWIR re-radiation, that is well established by science. What I am saying is that Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project did a poor job of demonstrating an experiment, so poor in fact that they had to fabricate portions of the presentation, and that the experiment itself (if they actually did it, we can’t tell) would show a completely different physical mechanism than what actually occurs in our atmosphere.

No broader take away (other than the experiment was faked and fails) was intended, expressed or implied – Anthony

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Dave Springer
October 19, 2011 1:55 pm

Carrick says:
October 19, 2011 at 11:04 am

David Springer: In order to perform this properly you need to use visible light as the heat source like the Mythbusters did:
Exactly, but for the millionth time, Anthony was repeating Gore’s experimental setup to show it doesn’t work, not trying to demonstrate whether, if properly measured, CO2 acts as an IR thermal insulator. Anthony’s results are exactly what are expected given Gore/Nye’s experimental setup. Namely, it doesn’t heat up as quickly, doesn’t get as hot in the center for the same forcing, and cools more slowly. This result follows directly from the Fourier heat equation.
It would be nice if some of you critics (including Matt and stevo) would admit that Gore’s experiment clearly doesn’t work as advertised and the results were clearly faked to show an opposite effect as what would be really expected from that experimental setup.

And I wish you would read more carefully. The comment of mine to which refer clearly states in the first sentence of the second paragraph:
“Gore’s experiment however is an outright fraud. He didn’t actually perform it and the results he claims are not replicable.”
What part of that don’t you understand?

Roger Knights
October 19, 2011 1:58 pm

Jason Calley says:
October 19, 2011 at 9:09 am
Bill Nye is a person who has achieved success and fame in his field, that of playing make-believe as a tool for illustrating middle school level science. It is sad that he thinks his success as a pedagogue qualifies him to preach to real scientists.

Nye has become a bigshot on CSICOP, which is a rabid enforcer of certified/establishment science.

October 19, 2011 1:58 pm

I’m trying to work my way through the comments, and while I too have I-wish-Anthony-hads too,I wish the critics would note that it looked like the attempt to accept the Gore video’s invitation and replicate the experiment.
Anthony did the best he could (given the AGW standards for experimental methods and data disclosures) to reproduce the experimental results.
He was not able to do that. In my poorly trained opinion, that is sufficient to falsify the hypothesis.

lemiere jacques
October 19, 2011 2:10 pm

brilliant..by the way you demonstrate that the temperature given any thermometer of any station data is …something in degree …but temperature of air…except if temperature of the shed is supposed to be equal to temperature of air….

October 19, 2011 2:17 pm

Now stepping away from Anthony’s experiment exposing Gorethon.
We see more and more that Gorethon is not doing well in its alarming tone and with its hurry up to do something messages.
There is a reasonable basis to not hurry to do a climate assessment in the current problematic IPCC way with its non-transparent, activist dominated, procedurally non-compliant and non-QA’ed processes. We need to slowdown the IPCC with a 100% visibility mandate; viewing in situ, in process and in real time all IPCC processes (including predecisional processes). Postponing AR5 now is the only reasonable conclusion that seems logical to me.
I say there is no reasonable basis to hurry because by looking into the broader AGW by CO2 historical overview, it is interesting to note that even to this day, +25 years after IPCC assessment began, there is not even close to any reasonable certainty of significant warming by the CO2 atmospheric effect due to fossil fuel burning. The lack of significance shows itself by two prongs of behavior by the earth’s atmospheric system: 1) other climate factors vie for dominance for the past +100 years of the modern instrumental record, ~30 years of the satellite record and the paleo/geologic record; 2) paucity of evidence of significant climate system positive feedback and paucity of evidence of climate system instability in the earth’s geological record and in the modern and instrumental records.
Sure it would add costs to do what I suggest, but it seems obvious one can save more than enough costs of online meetings (with public access to them) instead of the frequent closed meetings in exotic faraway places.
John

George E. Smith;
October 19, 2011 2:22 pm

Well I haven’t read but a few of the responses yet Anthony; but I would make the observation, that it would seem that nuclear weapons, are quite unnecessary.
You seem to have dispatched the enemy, with little more than a juggled camera, and some dimestore bric-a-brac.
Very nice work Anthony; yes anybody should have been able to deduce that the glass jars would stop the IR in its tracks, and simply conduction/convection “heat” transfe raffects the thermometerswere you to invest more time on this, switching the jars under the heat lamps just to show no real change from that would be in order.
I had somewhat disconnected from the story, actually long before the Gore blimeys put on their edited scam.
They started out telling us how much “heat” from the sun gets absorbed by the CO2 in the atmosphere thereby warming the atmosphere. They don’t go into the surface emission LWIR until later.
Hence they start out by admitting that CO2 is a negative feedback effect, in that MORE CO2 in the atmosphere absorbs MORE solar energy and heats the atmosphere MORE, while blocking that absorbed solar energy from reaching the surface where it can be stored in ocean and rocks. The warmer atmosphere in turn rises to convect that energy to higher altitudes and eventual loss to space, while the LWIR re-radiation from that WARMER atmosphere is isotropic, so only half of it proceeds down towoards the ground; the rest is lost to space, which results in a cooler surface.
So their own preamble describes processes which can ONLY result in a cooler surface; NEVER a warmer surface.
Well I figured that your kitchen lab replication was going to show their purported experiment was a dud, Anthony; I didn’t expect to see fairly clear evidence for a completely opposite result.
Perhaps a little A-B switching, such as of the “heat” lamps, also switch the gas mixtures in the two jars; well switch the jars; you know what I mean.
This one is almost bettert ahn the Weber Grill census , Anthony; because this labels a Nationally publicised demosntration as being a total and deliberate fraud.
For laughs try replacing the “heat” lamps with a couple of (identical) 16 ounce bottles of drinking water to simulate a true LWIR source emitting 400 W/m^2 at around 300 K, giving an LWIR spectrum peaking at around 10 microns, just like planet earth does (according to Dr Trenberth..
Just try shoving ANY of theat real LWIR, through those glass jars.
A grand slam home run, on this one Anthony.

jae
October 19, 2011 2:25 pm

Good work, but this is wrong:
“The way an actual greenhouse works is by trapping infrared radiation.”
As proved by Wood long, long ago.
Apologies if someone else already pointed this out. Don’t have time to read 300 comments!

October 19, 2011 2:25 pm

Thank you for your work here Anthony. You are truly one in a million and as such have attracted other one in a millionaires to you I.E. Willis, keep up the great work and never let those in the AGW apologist camp get you down.

October 19, 2011 2:28 pm

Brilliant work!

Theo Goodwin
October 19, 2011 2:32 pm

John Whitman says:
October 19, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Very, very well said. The mantra is “Postponing AR5 is the only reasonable thing to do.”

Joe
October 19, 2011 2:39 pm

Obviously the test was faked in the Gore video. The thing that I find interesting is that the humidity of the air jar and CO2 jar were so close and that even though the air jar had less humidity it still outpaced the humid CO2 in warming.
I suppose if you ran the 30 minute cycle repeatedly the CO2 car would eventually get warmer since it would be shedding heat slower than the air jar.

Green Sand
October 19, 2011 2:44 pm

We used to have a guy in the UK called Tommy Cooper who could have helped Al with his bottle trick. Tommy is really missed.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9UMvfKBaZI&w=640&h=360]

Matt
October 19, 2011 2:45 pm

Theo Goodwin:
“You cite theory which, according to you, requires that the Gore experiment must work. No instinct for the empirical. Good Warmista.”
Nope. I fully concede that it is possible that the Gore experiment is flawed. Those are your words. I am merely stating that I trust the thoroughly established basic thermodynamics of CO2, and that a well-concieved experiment will demonstrate a temperature effect consistent with this classical theory. There is not a single skeptical scientists (Lindzen,Spencer, Christy, etc etc) who would question this point or the basic experiments by guys like Arrhenius, Callendar, and Tyndal. And, of course there is a century of precision spectroscopy and molecular physics building on their work! I have explicitly heard Richard Lindzen correct misguided folks on the fact that CO2 does absorb and re-radiate infrared in a calculable way. Does that make him a “Warmista” too?
There is a certain point, where people on this blog are calling into question things that are so mind-bogglingly basic and well-established that they need not be argued. Let’s focus the discussion on the real points of scientific disagreement and not go back to square one on fundamental, repeatably tested principals. I say *please* focus the debate.
If I had all the time in the world. I could try to reproduce every classical experiment ever conducted. That would last a life-time. If, as you suggest, I should trust nothing at all from the entire corpus of basic physics where do I draw the line?
Anthony claims that this whole effort was to prove that Gore’s show presented an ill conceived, staged experiment. Fine. But, my challenge to Anthony is that an unintended(?) consequence of this article is that it has confused a lot of folks who don’t understand the underlying science. Anthony has conceded that he has made no claims to contradict the thermodynamics of CO2. He is merely demonstrating that Gore’s experiment was lights and magic. But, if he does indeed acknowledge that the basic thermodynamics of CO2 is settled and that a good experiment is possible to construct, I would (as a physicist) appreciate him articulating that clearly. So, Anthony, help me out here :).

George E. Smith;
October 19, 2011 2:52 pm

“”””” jamie says:
October 19, 2011 at 2:44 am
Has this experment ever been done using either something that mimics natural sunlight? Or even using sunlight itself?
Surely that would be the best way to test the “simple high school pysics”? “””””
Jamie, you don’t understand the intent of the experiment; which is to prove that long wave infra-red radiation in the 13.5 to 16.5 wavelength range, that is emitted from the surface of the earth at a mean temperature of 288 K and is absorbed by atmospheric CO2 at 390 ppm abundance, results in further warming of the surface, over and above the surface heating that is caused by the sun.
So “sunlight” is exactly the wrong thing to use in the experiment, because it is at wavelenghts only 1/20th of those emitted by the earth surface. An ordinary lightbulb at say 3,000 K emits about four million Watts per square meter (4,000,000W/m^2) or 10,000 times the radiant emittance of the earth surface (at 300K) and at 1/10th of the wavelenght, where the absorbtive effects of CO2 are quite different from what they are at 10 microns.
Also CO2 absorbing ANY sunlight (which it does) results in a COOLINGof the surface, not a heating.
A room temperature bottle of water is the appropriate source for the correct LWIR spectrum emitted by the earth surface (average); NOT a “heat” lamp.

robtron
October 19, 2011 2:53 pm

switch bottles and lamps in every possible combination just to be sure. There is no guarantee that each lamp puts out the same power. Or did you already say you did that?

yankeefifth
October 19, 2011 2:55 pm

nye needs to own this. gore does not care about the truth. if he admits the science is faked he is done. he has been fine with arguing by assertion for his entire career and is not about to change. nye purports to have some type of science credentials. he needs to be asked about the science in the experiment and his role in the experiment. nye needs to be forced to account for his involvement and in the record.

October 19, 2011 2:58 pm

Matt says:
October 19, 2011 at 7:36 am
Anthony,
In short, is your point to prove that CO2 should not have a warming effect? Or is it to prove that you personally cannot reproduce this century-old science?
If the effect is real and testable, than no amount of camera angles in the Gore video can change that point.

REPLY: Neither, my point is that Gore’s experiment doesn’t work as advertised, and they faked results in post production. – Anthony
Exactly, and I don’t believe either Anthony or other posters here can repeat that too many times.
Gore/Nye’s “simple lab experiment” – don’t forget that at about the 45 second mark of Gore/Nye’s video you hear “if you want, you can replicate this effect yourself in this simple lab experiment…”.
No Al, no Bill – you can not.
The “simple lab experiment” you show will not give the results you claim.
R. Gates says, in this thread:
R. Gates says:
October 19, 2011 at 10:31 am
This was an excellent job Anthony. I commend your diligence in carrying this out, and I agree with your final analysis. Of course, none of this has anything to do with actual climate science, but merely shows that the Producer of the Gore 101 video was more interested in the flash rather than real science. I do actually doubt whether they ever even attempted to run the experiment themselves, and were more interested on what looked good on video rather than what worked.

Yep, Gore is “more interested in the flash rather than real science”. I suspect you won’t get much argument here on that one.
The problem is, Gore’s “real science” is misrepresentation and deception”, in his movie, this video, and public appearances where he claims the earth’s core is millions of degrees hot.
Once again – Gore FAIL. Only this time, he also brings down Bill Nye with his science lie.

Bonfire of the Idiocies
October 19, 2011 3:02 pm

To paraphrase the late Johnny Cochran, “If the experiment don’t fit, then the theory is sh*t.”

October 19, 2011 3:07 pm

Matt,
I’ve never seen Anthony claim that there is no CO2 effect. My own often stated view is that a 2xCO2 rise will increase temperature by ≈1°C, ±0.5°C.
That said, the net effect of a rise in CO2 is harmless and beneficial. Harmless, because there is no evidence of any global harm from the rise in that tiny trace gas. And beneficial, because there is ample evidence of increased agricultural production due directly to the rise in CO2.
Demonizing “carbon” is emotion-based nonsense, not science. Rather than scolding Anthony for not doing the experiment you would like done, why not do it yourself, and post your findings here? Anthony simply accepted Gore’s challenge and replicated the experiment, which proved that Gore was being dishonest as usual.

zac
October 19, 2011 3:13 pm

Blimey. All Watts did was prove that Gore’s video is a fake.
Nowhere has he deneid that CO2 is one of the gasses that stops the Earth being an iceball in space.

jimmi_the_dalek
October 19, 2011 3:20 pm

I am not surprised that Gore’s demonstration does not work. I am also disappointed to find that Mythbusters tried a similar experiment, as I quite like their work, though only as entertainment.
You all need to be careful however that you do not generate a counter myth, as I notice several posts stating that this disproves the atmospheric greenhouse effect, or words to that effect. As pointed out by Steven Mosher (Oct19 4.52am), to test the atmospheric GHE properly you need a container open to a vacuum at the top, something you cannot achieve with a closed jar in the lab. Anthony clearly states that the intention is to show that the Gore experiment was faked, but perhaps to avoid the generation of new myths, an addendum show be provided stating how the GHE actually works?

Andrew
October 19, 2011 3:31 pm

SST’s are coldest on record at the moment does not augur well for global temps 2011-2012 for the AGW crowd!!! see AMSU sea surface

zac
October 19, 2011 3:32 pm

Jimmi-the-dalek, I think you will find that the Gore camp will fight this exposure of their 101 fabrication, by spinning that Anthony is a CO2 heats the Earth denier.

Editor
October 19, 2011 3:33 pm

Kudos to Anthony, but a bit of kudos to R Gates as well. Bear in mind that R Gates’ initial comment on this thread began “This was an excellent job Anthony. I commend your diligence in carrying this out, and I agree with your final analysis.” and ended “But this matters not…as in the end, I fully agree that I would have lost the bet on whether the experiment as illustrated in the 101 video would have worked or not (even though your’s was not exactly the same). Your analysis on why the illustrated experiment would not work is spot on, and is exactly why the BBC and Mythbusters experiments were successful.“.
BTW, I’m not saying that there’s nothing to disagree with in R Gates’ comments (or with Anthony’s experiments for that matter), but I think it reasonable to recognise that R Gates’ comments have been thoughtful and positive – something to be welcomed in this highly polarised debate.

Andrew
October 19, 2011 3:38 pm

BTW as an aside I reckon R gates and even Trenberth will soon be unofficial skeptics as they come to realize that nothing close to CO2 = warming is happening or likely to occur just to remain credible and obtain funds for climate research as the AGW becomes more and more fringe like loony science… LOL

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