WUWT reader “bouldersolar” writes in with this and a couple of photos, which I’ve combined into one.
In Colorado I got back almost $50,000 from the state and federal governments to buy this car.
Before you think this is just too ridiculous to be true, read this article.
This stems from a comment he made a couple of days ago on WUWT:
Speaking of annoying people with your Tesla. As a Tesla owner in Boulder Colorado I have a bumper sticker on it that says” Environmentalists took money from the poor to pay me to buy this car”
I am amazed at the violent reaction I get from all those Boulder peace loving non violent progressives to this message.
In contrast to whom exactly?
I see these repeated ‘claims’, these assertions without cite constantly almost as if it were a without-basis OWS chant …
Dealing in the applied field of EM theory, there is one little-used unit and no ‘effects’ bearing his name (The “Tesla”: “SI derived unit of magnetic field B, known as ‘magnetic flux density’ ” with one tesla is equal to one weber per square meter which was defined so in 1960). Also 1 tesla is equivalent to 10,000 G (gauss) in the CGS system.
Maxwell and Faraday certainly occupy slightly higher rungs on the ladder I think. Maybe even Marconi and Hertz. The elevation of Tesla seems more to be a ‘hobbyist thing’ (think: pop-culture, maybe high-school-science geek thing), what with the “Tesla coil” and the awesome display it is capable of and all …
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Boulder is solidly on the left. This means that they support unions, like the UAW. But when you drive around Boulder, foreign cars, especially German and Swedish cars, dominate. If you are a left wing pseudo intellectual and your driving status symbols clash with your politics, well, so be it.
Fortunately, I’m in Jefferson county, and so I’d be one of the guys giving his sign the thumbs up.
Dave Wendt says (October 14, 2011 at 11:01 am): “What i always find so amazing is how the Commie Socialist Progressive Leftist Democrats continually claim that it is the Right that is in the pocket of and taking care of the wealthy in the country. In reality most of the money that flows through the government to upper income groups and individuals does so as a result of programs that originated from the Left.”
Well put, Dave. Who in his right mind thinks the government can spend his money bettter than he can?
If I were a believer in conspiracies I would think that “Bouldersolar” had an econonmic stake in Tesla from his avid promotion of this car. But I am not so I won’t.
As the locals say, It’s to damn bad that Colorado’s become Californicated.
_Jim says:
October 14, 2011 at 1:32 pm
In contrast to whom exactly?
It says
Nikola Tesla was one of the 20th century great scientists and…
not greater then… , not greatest, just one of ..
No contrasting is required, Tesla was great scientist and great inventor but unfortunately poor businessman. In Europe at the time, scientific competence was far more important then business acumen.
Don’t know what is your point, unless you whish to show that all scientists you mentioned are Europeans. Tesla was European too, and if he worked in Europe it is possible that last 30 years of his life (and possibly world state of technology) would have been that much richer.
The electric car to own will be the new Tesla Model S with the largest capacity battery pack.
That car is more than just an electric – it’s a great car. Cost for the 170 mile version : $57,500,
the 245 mile version : 67,500, and $77,500 for the 320 mile version. Can recharge in under 45 minutes at level 3 (three phase). Fed tax rebate on any electric is $7500. Sport version can
run zero to sixty in under 4.5 seconds – faster than a Corvette or Porsche 911. Don’t bother with any of the other sub-100 mile range electrics – they can only function as a second car. Tesla did
get a loan from the Feds but, unlike GM, taxpayer money was not used to buy shares in the company. Tesla has already sold out their first half year’s production (due to begin mid-2012) – 6500 have forked over $5,000 apiece to reserve a car. Tesla operated by Elon Musk, founder of PayPal.
DirkH says:
October 14, 2011 at 10:13 am
“Similar to how the German feed-in tariff of 3.5 cent/kWh rips off the poor to pay for the solar installations of home owners. A form of degressive taxation. It’s funny how the Greens never protest against this.”
The Greens are not about helping the poor. The Greens are about securing the authority necessary to guarantee the birth rights of our Ruling Elite. Those rights are being secured against the poor, among others. Those rights include the right to a healthy, pleasant, unchanging climate.
Greens get upset when the harm that they do the poor is criticized in public. They get really, really upset because the poor have been one of their sacred cows for at least fifty years and they just cannot come clean and let that symbolism go.
Tilo Reber says:
October 14, 2011 at 1:34 pm
“Boulder is solidly on the left. This means that they support unions, like the UAW. But when you drive around Boulder, foreign cars, especially German and Swedish cars, dominate. If you are a left wing pseudo intellectual and your driving status symbols clash with your politics, well, so be it.”
“Mercedes Marxists” is what we called them in the 1970’s. There were quite a few of them even then. Many of them were tenured professors who were declared Marxists and one of them published a Marxist journal.
As regards German cars, especially Mercedes and BMW, a friend of mine once remarked that “In Germany there is a reason for owning such cars; you can drive them 180 mph on the Autobahn.”
I can beat that. I got a 12KW PV solar setup installed at my house where the local municipality provided an 85% instant rebate. The FED provided an additional 30% tax credit.
I keep hearing that Solar PV doesn’t have a reasonable ROI. I just don’t understand /sarc
How much of a tax credit could I get for this? A newFerrari Enzo was selling for about $500,000. (Used are now in the millions.) I imagine a new hybrid version will be a bit more.
Ferrari Enzo successor powered by V12 hybrid, next 599 to get 700+ hp
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/06/ferrari-enzo-successor-powered-by-v12-hybrid-next-599-to-get-70/
It’s a good story, but be clear about the accounting here. The savings came from federal and state tax credits and/or deductions. As the Supreme Court has recently affirmed, income that the state declines to collect in taxes, for whatever reason, is not public money, and no money was transferred from poor people to the purchaser. Of course the purchaser paid lower taxes than someone like him who did not purchase a Tesla, and by how much is quite astounding.
Hard to explain that on a bumper sticker, though.
Is there anybody from Arizona on this thread?
I remember the state of Arizona was offering a rebate, or tax credit, to buyers of vehicles that ran on alternative fuels. (Approx. 1999-2000) Propane and natural gas being the preferred fuels. But the rebate was a big percentage of the selling price, and people started buying very expensive SUVs and motor homes because sellers would slap an alternative fuel kit onto any vehicle. This scheme cost the Arizona government a lot of money.
Can anybody confirm this?
_Jim says: October 14, 2011 at 1:32 pm
In contrast to whom exactly?
Jim, I researched Tesla earlier this year, following a prompt. I knew next to nothing about him when I started, just kinda rumours. I was gobsmacked. He really is one of the greatest scientists of all time, seriously underestimated by conventional science, because (like Newton) he had some “funny” areas of interest – and, imho, because he knew more than the government wanted known. His material was pinched by both Marconi and Edison who became famous for what Tesla really discovered, and the government >HAARP etc. I have a feeling he even beat Einstein somehow. Sorry this is all memory. Tesla was co-opted into the US military programme in WW2 but ducked out as he saw them working with stuff far more dangerous than they understood – the Philadelphia project. Please don’t just laugh at me. Research Tesla carefully and dig deeper than both his detractors and his adulators. He was breaking “laws of science” all over the place. His pigeon fancying was a cover. His heart was in the right place, he had scruples and ethics. He had a phenomenal power of visualization so never drew diagrams and plans, just made stuff direct that he knew would work. My memory serves me well, in essence if not in detail.
_Jim says:
October 14, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Jim, Tesla was an engineer. He invented the all the parts of the 20th Century electrical power system – alternators, motors, transformers etc over a few days. That, even if he didn’t do anything else, is his claim to fame. He also invented radio BTW. There’s a book about him called
“The Man Who Invented the 20th Century”.
As for Tesla motors, even really smart guys like Elon Musk sometimes do stupid things. When the scam goes bust I hope Spacex can be kept going and Elon keeps running it. Oh well D.D. Harriman had to run a scam in “The Man Who Sold The Moon”.
Range in cold: Went to south Denver to pick up son when temp was 37 degrees. Started with 3/4 charge. 105 mile round trip on 65 mph roads. No problem. When I go to steamboat it can be below freezing at the passes. One thing to remember is that the lower density air in Colorado gets you 20% more range at highway speeds compared to sea level. Thats one reason I had the range record for the lead acid EV1. I use approximately 300 kwh a month driving both electric cars. Net efficiency at the AC line is about 400 wH/mile. 15 kw solar panels and 3 kw wind powers cars and all electric household.
I do not work for Tesla or have any connection with them. Met Elon Musk once and we talked about his Falcon jet he uses. 0.4 miles per gallon but can carry 13.
M.A.Vukcevic says:
October 14, 2011 at 9:56 am
I don’t know as much about Tesla as I should, but I did know Edison’s eldest daughter who was my grandmother’s next door neighbor and best friend. Please forgive the bias.
The Edison-DC/Tesla-AC thing was a spat that’s been repeated many times over history. New fields like power production, radio, computers, etc seem to be the most rough and tumble. The inventor of several other key radio improvements like FM and superheterodyne receivers, Edwin Howard Armstrong, got shoved aside by Lee De Forest and RCA.
http://www.ccrane.com/library/fm-invention.09.09.02.aspx
Most recently, the there are several good companies that were wiped out by Microsoft. The usual pattern was the company creates something, it gets attention, Microsoft wants it and the choices are either sell the company for much less than it’s worth or be stomped out of existence by the two ton Gorilla doing their own thing. Sometimes Microsoft would just do the latter and block the competition. Like Word Perfect and Netscape.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/2280/can-microsofts-success-be-attributed-to-their-abuse-of-a-monopoly
Yeah, Tesla got a raw deal, but it had more to do with his lack of cutthroat business sense for the times at hand than all the other cutthroats out there. Those times weren’t that different than these times.
Talk to Tim Ball.
Bouldersolar-
Are you getting close to the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster quoted- “According to the U.S. EPA, the Roadster can travel 244 miles (393 km) on a single charge[12]”?
Per Wikipedia you use about “21.7 kW·h/100 miles” Does this sound about right to you?
It looks like you can charge up for about a $1.00 an hour at a few spots in Boulder-
“On Wednesday, the city began catering to that vision with the installation of the first two public electric vehicle charging stations. http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_18655012
At a total cost of $31,000, the stations were installed at the South Boulder Recreation Center parking lot. On Monday, the stations will be switched on and made available for drivers of plug-in cars to rent for $1 per hour.
The stations will cost the city about 90 cents per hour to operate, but because the city can’t legally re-sell electricity, it will instead charge a $1 “service fee” to rent a radio frequency card that operates one of the stations.
“(Recreation center users) can just come up to the service desk there and request a card,” said Joe Castro, Boulder’s facility and fleet manager.
Castro said the two stations have the ability to charge up to four vehicles at the same time, and include both 240-volt and 110-volt hookups.”
It looks like your charging stations are giving you a free ride as far as transportation taxes/fees go- Colorado charges petrol transportation fees/taxes of $.404 gallon.
It isn’t just the Tesla. Same thing with the Chevy Volt, too. Check this out from a Congressman who also happens to be a Chevy dealer:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/10/chevy-dealing-congressman-there-is-no-market-for-the-volt/
Basically you have very rich people buying the Volt on the backs of the middle class who are forced to fork across a subsidy.
I wonder, is the guy between the s and l the one snapping the picture or the one going: WTF wasn’t this supposed to be cordless? :p
Electric cars are not a scam. They actually work. And, within their range limits, work well. The top end ones, like the Tesla, have all the acceleration (and some) and power of their equivalent petrol versions.
I accept that there is no excuse to force people into electric cars by tax rebates (either on the car or on the electricity) but that is no excuse to heap shame on the manufacturers of the Tesla. They are just making a car. Quite a good car.
Lots of towns run electric trolley-buses or trams. The fastest trains in the world are all electrically driven. No-one seems to think they are ridiculous.
But they can not be deployed at any significant scale. You can not move any significant amount of energy consumption from gasoline (oil) to electricity (mostly coal) while you have an EPA that is at this moment getting ready to take 28 gigawatts of power off the grid.
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2011/10/07/ier-identifies-coal-fired-power-plants-likely-to-close-as-result-of-epa-regulations/
That is roughly equal to the entire nuclear generation capacity of the United States. You can not take that much power off the grid and at the same time migrate energy from petroleum to electricity. It can not be done, it is simply physically impossible. If EPA goes ahead with this, we are not going to have enough electricity to power our laptops, let alone our cars. Rolling blackouts will become the norm. People HAVE to get back and forth to work but the traffic lights won’t be working either.
We have the most incompetent, naive administration in history.
highest recommendation: http://www.teslashop.us/
see also: http://teslatech.info/index.html
Adam Kokesh has captured a couple of priceless examples of just how nasty today’s green fascists have become: http://www.adamvstheman.com/
Are you ppl simply reading some of the pap appearing on the web?
Ever read any of the books about him (PRE history-warping internet)?
I’d like you guys to point out any significant papers he wrote, while alive, too. Something on a par with, oh, the works of Maxwell maybe …
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Mostly on groundwork laid by others; still not seeing a the wealth of evidence that would place him on a pedestal. You pen those words as if you are rendering ‘an enlightenment’, whereas in actuality it is a ‘repeat performance of a long-playing act’ …
Maybe it’s just that what he did, which was a little more concrete and understandable by the more common man, perhaps in the vein of a Steve Jobs who made practical use of technology for the masses?
He was a showman as well, you are aware of the public demonstrations he put on?
You all (Y’all) are also aware that some of the ideas he had also did not/have not panned out?
I will ask you the same Q I posed to Lucy: Have you read any volumes (books) on Tesla aside from the usual Inet stuff?
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