It seems that climate advocate Bill McKibben has jumped the shark. As evident on the 350.org website, it is no longer about climate in any way shape or form, of course, based on past behavior, it probably never was. Just have a look at some of the recent pronouncements from the 350.org website:
and from two days ago…
Listen to what McKibben and some of his fellow protestors have to say:
But even our own Willis Eschenbach thinks the XL pipeline issue is ridiculous, because there is really only one question: Where will the oil be burned?
I think this image sums up this farce pretty well:
I wonder what corporate airline Bill McKibben uses to jet around the world to speak of the evils of CO2 and corporations?
The only thing missing from the picture (though it is likely in there somewhere) is Apple Corporation, purveyor of (in my opinion, highly overpriced) computers which have an almost fanatical following in some circles.Now before you launch into an automatic Mac-vs-PC war, please read why I’m pointing this out.
Apple is company number one (according to Bloomberg) in growth and revenue, and #1 in tech (according to NYT) but the same people who complain about Wall Street, think nothing of getting fleeced by Apple for a computer you can buy for about a third of the price elsewhere.
While everyone is free to choose what computer works best for them, I find that lack of labeling of Apple as a “greedy corporation” very ironic, particularly in light of the worker abuse, child labor problems and environmental problems left in the wake of the manufacturing of Apple’s products in China. It is doubly ironic that some of the loudest and most acidic voices about climate and greed, are Apple product users, and raise not a peep about such problems. Apple gets a pass, probably because the Goreacle endorses the company and sits on its board.
But that’s a side issue, especially when one of the most intelligent and reasonable persons I know, WUWT author Willis Eschenbach, is a Mac user. I only point out Apple Corporation in this context because the occupy protesters and climate activists don’t see the very profitable and ethically/ecologically questionable Apple Corporation as being in the same class of evil corporations they protest for the very same reasons.
The real issue with “occupy” is the lack of rational thought and direction by this “movement”. Even the MSM and some university newspapers are noticing this. For example, watch this video from “occupyAtlanta”. They are actually proud of making a civil rights leader leave.
And in case you were wondering about the political angle, be sure to recite the Marxist chant:
The mindless droning has spread to Seattle:
They may as well be chanting Imhotep Imhotep! Imhotep!!
There’s a name for people like this: useful idiots.
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Sure a Microsoft windows computer is cheaper to buy…than a Mac…but how much is your time worth?
For those that haven’t used them…you take a Mac out of the box and ‘turn it on’ and it works and keeps working.
I look back with anger and amazement on the wasted weeks of misery and frustration spent wrestling with Billy Boy’s dire machines.
If I were to calculate the amount of my time I have saved since I moved over to Mac at 1 dollar an hour, I could probably buy another Mac and still be ahead!
Please stick with climate issues. Don’t get onto the slippery “Occupation” slope! Yes, most of thes folk are AGW supporters and they will suck WWUT right in!!
Trying to do some background on McKibben, I’m coming up blank on his CV. Graduated from Hahvahd, lots of honerary degrees, … but I can’t find any research papers by him, or what his degree is in, only lots of accolades without saying WHAT he’s done, just that he’s talked about it a lot.
Interesting that he’s a Schumann Distinguished Scholar….and the Schumann Center for Media and Democracy has provided funding for the prestigious Union of Concerned Scientists (that’s ME).
On point, that people like McKibben is trying to take what could be a successful, and needed, grass roots movement and warp it into something it was not intended to be is patently offensive. I believe we need serious changes on Wall St., like banning automated computer trading and leveling the playing field for guys like me and you. The real 1%ers.
While it’s fun to poke fun at these people, this sort of mob can easily get out of hand. Mob mentality is a terrible thing to behold. We all better pray for a good hard rain and cold to break this up.
“Elections must be funded with public money, and free access to broadcasting. If the government can’t be used to ensure free and fair elections, what can it be used for?”
So the government will decides who gets taxpayer funding to promote themselves before an election.
No chance of corruption there, no sir, none whatsoever.
Back in the real world, the problem is big government. So long as it exists, big business will be happy to spend a few million lobbying for changes which will result in billions going their way.
You could create a document specifically limiting the government to the few things that it does better than private industry, and you could give it a fancy name like ‘The Constitution’ and then the government would have so few powers that there’d be no point lobbying it for preferential treatment because there would be very little you could gain from doing so. It’s only when government sucks up 30-50% of the economic output and sticks its nose and fingers into every aspect of daily life that lobbying becomes vital for any big company to be able to continue in business.
charles nelson says:
October 9, 2011 at 3:34 pm
“For those that haven’t used them…you take a Mac out of the box and ‘turn it on’ and it works and keeps working.”
Your last Windows PC must have been before XP.
Let 350.org continue I say.
Seems they want to flush themselves down the toilet with even more gusto… One less mouthpiece to worry about.
I love Apple products, but Apple does not get a pass by any means. They are extremely anti-competitive and greedy. They innovate, but do everything in their power to make sure others can’t innovate. They are not alone in the software industry. Please see the following link for how corporations use their force to stifle innovation in software: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/26/138576167/when-patents-attack.
As far as the “Down with evil corporations” picture goes, all of those items can be purchased from smaller companies. There is no indication that any of those products are branded by corporations. Corporations don’t necessarily innovate, and they certainly don’t make our lives better. Where you will be hard-pressed to find alternatives from smaller companies, you can blame patents and anticompetitive practices by market dominators. Large corporations will either buy out and cannibalise smaller, more innovative competitors (sometimes under duress), or they will just outright sue them into oblivion with their B.S. patents (see the above link). Corporatism != Capitalism, and the corporate culture of today does not resemble capitalism at all. Corporatism today stifles innovation, destroys competition, and regularly lobbies for their further entrenchment.
However, none of this matters does it? This is supposed to be about climate change. I have been a reader of this site for about three years now. I probably visit the site several times a day. Can we drop the politics? I am anti-corporatist, but I am also anti-CAGW. Let’s stick to the science at hand.
Tis indeed an Obomao reelection effort. These individuals are his base.
Pffffffffftttttttttttt Ptu!
Some of ya’ll might want to be a bit more careful of what sort of critter you hitch your wagon to.
Matthew says:
October 9, 2011 at 3:13 pm
I would only add, that often, you’d find those guaranteed student loans that financed that useless education.
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I don’t think it is so much the pursuit of an unworkable energy source, rather than the rejection, and thus the limitation on proven energy and fuel sources.
In order to put people back to work, this nation needs more cheap and reliable energy and fuel. By our unwillingness to such ensures mining, manufacturing, transportation of goods will remain stagnate. This will continue to strain the banking and housing markets. It will further require more people on federal and state assistance.
The reliance on Wall Street instead of Main street for economic expansion is all but assured by our policies.
ferd berple says:
October 9, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Grizzled Bear says:
October 9, 2011 at 12:53 pm
And when major corporations like GE can get away with paying little or no taxes, that’s just plain wrong.
Where does the money come from that Corporations use to pay their taxes? Don’t they add the cost of the taxes to their products, so that when you and I buy them, we end up paying the tax?
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Much of what passes for information in the U.S. is garbage Ferd / Grizzled Bear. Take the GE not paying any taxes for example. Last year GE paid $1.05 billion in taxes and took a tax deferral of some $3.2 billion for the losses incurred ($30 billion) in GE Capital due to the market meltdown and subsequent asset write-down. The ability of these large companies to carry forward losses (thereby offsetting but not avoiding taxes) is to smooth out the extremes so they don’t get into serious trouble for a specific year (where the economy goes into the toilet – 2009, or if they have an enormously profitable one-of year and face a formidable tax bill the next). Make no mistake. GE is paying tax. It was just much lower in one year. Check how much GE paid in taxes in 2005, 2006, 2007.
Which corporations pay the highest taxes? You would be surprised to learn it’s mostly the oil companies. While ExxonMobil, Conaco Phillips, Chevron, Goldman Sachs,Wells Fargo, Wall-mart pay above average taxes, companies such as Apple and Google pay proportionally lower taxes and park enormous amounts of money (over $100 billion) off shore to avoid paying US tax.
I’m not sure what these protesters are protesting – it isn’t to re-elect Obama as he will surely find out. But do they really want to take down corporate America? This is fool-hardy. The American economy, more than other countries is based on innovation, something that does not require territorial barriers. The next Steve Jobs will just set himself up in a low-tax country and import into the US. And Americans will be testing on their new iphone equivalents how unfair this is – but they will be texting. So good luck with that.
geo says:
October 9, 2011 at 12:57 pm
I think it is pretty clear where the political leanings of this site now lie. Views on climate change correlate with political views pretty well. .
Views on climate change don’t align with political views particularly well. There are quite a few of us at WUWT who are way to the left in US terms. I personally have never voted right of the Democrats in my life, nor am ever likely to.
I think you are making two mistakes. First, assuming that the US is the world. In general the non-US sceptics are quite different politically.
Two: being swayed excessively by the noisiest people. Of course the right wing are going to be more loudly sceptical. They gain politically by doing so. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t loads of quietly sceptical left-wingers.
(You are also leaving out the many, many people on the right who believe in CO2 induced AGW. Prince Charles is no leftie, and neither is David Cameron.)
Stark Dickflüssig says:
If the 99% really was 99% they wouldn’t have to stage sit ins. (this totally grass-roots message brought to you thanks to generous contributions from SEIU, OFA, attackwatch.com, & IWW)
If the 99% really was 99%, our country would have plopped into the bottomless cesspool that statist regimes have been since time began.
Sean Hill says:
“Corporations don’t necessarily innovate, and they certainly don’t make our lives better.”
Maybe you should be commenting on the UFO thread.☺
RE: The John Lewis video:
Tell me what idiocy looks like?
This is what idiocy looks like!
Rinse and repeat.
@MarkG
And when there are six major providers of television media in the United States, there is no chance of corruption there either, right? I’m not sure why people seems to believe that corruption can only exist in government, as if an oligopoly cannot be negatively influenced and collude to keep certain viewpoints and ensure that others are trumpeted. The thing is, the government has a role to play in keeping the media fair and open. That role is preventing the consolidation of media networks, keeping a plural of viewpoints instead of keeping licensing fees such that only large corporations can afford them.
Lobbying is nothing new, and it has been around since the days of Thomas Jefferson (aka The Constitution’s Golden Years). As long as there is a source of power, people will find ways to exploit it and twist it to their needs. Most “WTF” moments in U.S. legislative, executive policy, and case law have been influenced by power hungry, corporatist interests. Each time corporate desires meets our basic freedoms, we lose.
I am statistically one of (and support) the 99%’ers and I DO NOT Believe in the CAGW movement (CAGW is just bad science run amok),
I’m a conservative except when I’m Liberal and against corporate extremism. There are allot of people visiting this web site that can do heavy math, what surprises me is so many people think its ok that 1% of Americans control 90% of the wealth. By the way these statistics are pretty clear cut and not the work of climate science. 1% of the population controlling 90 % of the wealth, isn’t that what we saw historically with ROYALTY? Soooo we now have a new ruling 1% Royal elite of business super stars and robber barons, why is anyone OK with that.
Maybe its the give them circuses hollywood crowd that likes to distract the serfs with You To Can be a Superstar and make it rich or the SHAM (self help actualization movement) that tries to tell us you can be anything you want to be if you just believe in yourself (ie. get rich quick).
America has transformed into some type of perverted Corporate Democracy, please try to find your way back to a Democracy Of the People By the People For the People !!
DirkH says:
October 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Grizzled Bear says:
October 9, 2011 at 2:34 pm
“Uncanny how GE Capital just manages to lose money each and every year, isn’t it?”
Every citizen tries to get every tax rebate he can. Why should a company ignore that.
“Just enough to lower their contribution to YOUR government. I’m not American.”
Me neither. See: When they have to pay more taxes, less money will go to the shareholders or the employees. Less tax will be paid by those groups. Dividends are taxed. Wages are taxed. The state can’t lose.
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Do some homework people. GE paid taxes of $3.427, $2.794 and $2.552 billion in 2008, 2007 and 2006 for a 23% effective tax rate.
If you want to crap on one of the largest employers in the US go ahead. That is what is going wrong with America. It is beginning to hate success.
Are they taking time off school or work to go to the protest.
“Apple has an an undeiable flair and success, and that’s what capitalism allows. For many people, it is the best choice. -Anthony”
No, no, no! For all people, it is the best choice. Capitalism that is, because without capitalism communism doesn’t work.
Eating apples, or using apples, well, that’s the real choice. :p
I don’t know why the accusations of child labor and harsh labor practices are always linked to Apple. Maybe it gets more clicks. Foxconn, the Apple supplier accused of harsh labor practices, has a long list of clients including Dell, HP, Nintendo, Intel, and Microsoft: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Clients But whenever Foxconn is mentioned in the press, it’s always “iPhone maker Foxconn”.
Microsoft and child labor: http://www.globallabourrights.org/alerts?id=0011
Working in a Chinese sweatshop for HP, Microsoft, Dell and IBM: http://www.globallabourrights.org/press?id=0068
I clicked through to the report on that NYtimes link discussing environmental issues with Apple, and one of the offending suppliers “is also a suspected supplier to: Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, Canon, Motorola, Siemens, Sanyo and Samsung.” Another company is a suspected supplier to “Toshiba, HP, Dell and Lenovo”.
@Smokey
What I mean is that they don’t make our lives better by virtue of being corporations. There are some corporations which play fairly, don’t partake in anti-competitive practices, contribute back to the community (especially in software with open source projects), etc. Large corporations started small, and just because they make it doesn’t mean they’re evil. Besides, using the word “corporation” is kind of a misnomer. I mean, I own a corporation… it has one employee, myself. 🙂
The beef is with companies who work the system to their favor through lobbying efforts, government subsidies and handouts, manipulation of the legal (especially patent) system. I can’t speak for the “Occupy” movement, but these are the types of companies where my anti-corporatist rancor is directed. It is important to remember that our corporatist culture is not capitalism.
The occupados say they are protesting corporate greed, but among their demands: minimum wage of $20, free health care, guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment, free college education, immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all.
And they point the finger at others for being greedy? Hah!
The Seattle video is simply frightening: these people repeating after the microphone holder… Is it Kindergarten of what?
Sean Hill says:
October 9, 2011 at 4:38 pm
“However, none of this matters does it? This is supposed to be about climate change. I have been a reader of this site for about three years now. I probably visit the site several times a day. Can we drop the politics? I am anti-corporatist, but I am also anti-CAGW. Let’s stick to the science at hand.”
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I agree with your position.
But, the politics are only beginning to ramp up. By this time next year, it should be really interesting.