Guest Post by Ira Glickstein
What should a responsible Skeptic say to an astute audience? When recently invited by the “Technology, Engineering, and Science Plus” group in my community to give a talk and answer questions, I knew I would have an attentive room of tech-savvy professionals. However, they might not be fully tuned in to the details of the Global Warming controversy. Furthermore, they were likely to have opinions closer to the supposed “mainsteam science” orientation than mine.
In this posting, I’ve summarized the main points I think are most likely to align people who are both intelligent and reasonable to the Skeptic side. My Powerpoint (with talking points for each chart in the Notes section under each slide) is available [click here] for you to use and adapt as you wish.

A. Basic Climate Science – Water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), and other “greenhouse” gases cause the Earth Surface to be warmer than it would be if the Atmosphere was just nitrogen.
- Light energy from the Sun warms the Earth System, which consists of our Atmosphere and the Surface. Based on satellite measurements, the Sun provides 1366 Watts per square meter (W/m^2) at the Top of the Atmosphere. After accounting for the Earth’s spherical shape and albedo (reflectiveness), the absorbed energy averages out to about 240 W/m^2 for each square meter.
- To maintain a relatively constant mean temperature, Output Energy must equal Input Energy, so the Earth System must emit about 240 W/m^2 out to Space, which it does.
- We call the Input Energy “light” because we can see (much of) it. We call the Output Energy “heat” because we can feel it. However, whether it is “short wave” energy from the very hot Sun, or “long wave” from the more moderate Earth System, we know that energy is fungible. 240 W/m^2 of one type is equal, power-wise, to 240 W/m^2 of the other. A Watt is a Watt, no matter what :^)
- But, there is an “issue” – if we consider the Earth System as a “black body”, according to the laws of physics, for the Earth System to emit 240 W/m^2, it would have to be at a temperature of only 255 Kelvin, where Kelvins are degrees Celsius above absolute zero. (The Earth System is not exactly a black body, but it is close enough for our purposes here.)
- You may remember that anything above absolute zero emits radiant energy and that 0.0 Kelvin corresponds to -273ºC or -460ºF. The “issue” is that the Earth Surface has a mean temperature closer to 288 Kelvin, corresponding to about +15ºC or +59ºF. In other words, the Surface is about 33ºC or 58ºF warmer than the “black body” formula would indicate. How to explain this added warmth?
- The generally accepted explanation is the Atmospheric “greenhouse effect”. This is true science, but the name is somewhat misleading because a glass greenhouse works mostly by restricting convection while the Atmospheric effect works mostly by restricting radiation. I use “scare quotes” around “greenhouse” to acknowledge this semantic issue.
- The Atmosphere passes most of the “short wave” energy from the Sun and absorbs most of the “long wave” energy from the Surface. The absorbed energy warms the Atmosphere and is re-emitted in all directions at a variety of “long wave” wavelengths. A portion of radiation from the Atmosphere passes out the Top of the Atmosphere to Space. A portion is emitted in the downward direction and is absorbed by the Surface. This absorbed radiant energy accounts for most of the extra 33ºC or 58ºF.
- A variety of gases in the Atmosphere, primarily water vapor (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2), absorb and re-emit “long wave” radiation. These are called “greenhouse gases”.
B. Divergent Views – There is a valid, science-based argument between people I refer to as Warmists, Lukewarmers, and Skeptics. I distinguish their reasoned views from the far out, unscientific rantings of people I refer to as Alarmists and their equal and opposite reaction opponents, who I call Disbelievers.
- VP Al Gore was not the first Alarmist, but his public lectures and his Nobel and Oscar-winning movie, An “Inconvenient” Truth, probably did more than anything else to bring Global Warming Alarmism to the fore in the consciousness of the major media and the general population.
- The scene depicted above was the highlight of his presentation.
- Gore displays the Ice Core record of the past 600,000 years for CO2 (red) and Temperature (blue). He points out the undoubted correlation between the two parameters. When one goes up so does the other. When one goes down, the other does as well. He points out that the then current CO2 level is considerably higher than that of the past 600,000 years, and he projects the future levels of CO2 assuming it continues to rise at current rates. So far, this is all true.
- Dramatically ascending high above the stage on his motorized platform, he implies that mean temperatures will rise in proportion to the CO2. (My graphic is annotated in dashed blue to show the implied warming.) If that happens, he warns, more and more of the polar ice will melt, causing the seas to rise and flooding coastal areas. The ground under the polar ice will be exposed, further reducing the albedo of the Surface and causing further warming. We will reach a tipping point with runaway Global Warming.
- The villain of Gore’s story is the human race and our habit of burning ever-increasing quantities of fossil fuels (coal, oil, natural gas) that release unprecedented amounts of CO2. This scene, more than any other event, is most likely responsible for the birth of what has come to be known as Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming, CAGW. In other words, catastrophe due to human-caused Global Warming. It has become the mantra of the Alarmists and an excuse for governments to regulate all fossil fuels as well as land use that affects albedo. Since all industry and agriculture and civilized life itself depends upon fossil fuels and land use, the Alarmists give suitably oriented politicos an excuse to regulate and tax and restrict virtually everything. We outdoors types will need an indulgence from the government every time we pass wind. And, we can forget about lighting a campfire :^).
- But, as the annotations in my graphic above show, there is a fundamental “Inconvenient” truth about the ice core data. It has absolutely nothing to say about the current Global Warming controversy! Gore was misleading the media and the public when he implied that rising CO2 levels would cause corresponding increases in mean temperatures. In particular, as any scientist who took a close look at the ice core data would see, and as I show in the inset graph in the upper left corner, Temperature always rises eight-hundred or more years before CO2 increases. The same is true in the other direction. The Temperature falls eight-hundred or more years prior to CO2 decreases. What this shows, if anything, is that TEMPERATURE CAUSES CO2, or, that something else causes both to change, with CO2 lagging by hundreds of years. Gore got the direction of causation backwards.
- When the falsehood of this implied causation was pointed out, Gore’s apologists claimed that it was a minor matter and, after all, despite the 800-year lag, both Temperature and CO2 were up together and down together for about 5/6ths of the record. Besides, they said, we are currently burning historically unprecedented amounts of fossil fuel, and, we know that CO2 is a “greenhouse gas”, and so on and on. But, the truth is still that the ice core record is of a time when there were no humans to burn fossil fuels, so why did Gore bring it up since it has no relationship to our current situation? Raw, unfettered Alarmism has had its effect on the media, the political class, and we common citizens who have to pay the costs of the phony CAGW panic.
- In politics, as in physics, every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction. In the Case of CAGW, that opposite (and equally false) reaction is what I call Disbeliever AGW or DAGW. These are people who use pseudo-scientific arguments in their claim that humans have had absolutely no hand in the mean temperature rise of the past century, or that there has been no temperature rise, or that the basic science of the Atmospheric “greenhouse effect” is untrue, and so on. I do not like to be to critical of the DAGW crowd because, when it comes to general political decisions, they are more likely than not to agree with me than my opponents, but my academic integrity and ethical duty as a licensed professional engineer require me to state what I see as the error of their arguments. (As I have in my WUWT Visualizing series [1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
- Having dismissed what I regard as the unscientific Alarmists and Disbelievers, that leaves us with three groups that, for the most part, use rational science-base arguments for their diverse views. Of course, every member of each group has somewhat different views, and any attempt to divide them into three distinct types is bound to cross some lines. So, please consider my grouping as approximate.
- Carbon sensitivity, which is the estimate of how much mean temperatures will increase if CO2 doubles from historical or current levels, is one way to determine which of the the three groups a person belongs to. The Warmists tend to accept the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimate of 2.0ºC to 4.5ºC. The Skeptics tend to set carbon sensitivity much lower, perhaps 0.2ºC to 1ºC. The third group, which I call Lukewarmers, would suggest 1ºC to 3ºC.
- How much of the rise in CO2 is attributable to human use of fossil fuels is also estimated differently. Warmists would blame humans for nearly all of it, while Skeptics would say less than half. Similarly, the blame for the supposed 0.8ºC rise in mean temperatures since 1880 is mostly attributed to human activities, while Skeptics say that data bias “adjustments” by the official climate record keepers is responsible for about a third of the supposed warming, and that natural cycles, over which humans have no control, are responsible for about half of it, leaving only 0.1ºC (or maybe up to 0.2ºC) to human responsibility. Lukewarmers are somewhere in-between.
- Skeptics have well-justified suspicions that the official climate data keepers were “cooking the books” to lend whatever support they could to the highest estimates of carbon sensitivity. Around the year 2000, US Mean Temperature data was “adjusted” down by 0.1 to 0.2ºC for years prior to the 1970’s, and upwards by 0.2 to 0.3ºC for years after the 1970’s, increasing supposed warming by 0.3 to 0.5ºC.
- The surfacestations.org project published photos of official temperature measurement stations that were very near artificial sources of heat, with most being in the lowest two of the five quality levels established by the government. The poor quality stations were compared to nearby well-located stations. There were large temperature deltas that could only be accounted for if the the stations now poorly-located were originally well-located, but had been influenced by nearby development, such as paved parking lots, buildings, and air conditioning vents.
- According to a figure in the 1990 IPCC report, 1100 to 1300 AD saw temperatures in the northern hemisphere that were higher than current levels. However, the IPCC 2001 report included the infamous so-called “hockey stick” chart that managed to make the Medieval Warm Period of about 1000 years ago disappear! (My Powerpoint set includes charts with evidence of each of the aforementioned issues.)
- These suspicions were not fully confirmed until 2009 when someone (probably an inside whistle-blower) released emails and computer code from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in the UK, and, later that year, a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request yielded a stash from the US NASA-GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies).
C. Climategate – UK Climatic Research Unit (CRU) emails and the US NASA GISS FOIA emails. What they tell us about the published Global Warming data.

- I refer to the CRU as the Climategate Research Unit or, more simply, the Fudge Factory because the words “fudge factor” appear in their computer code. Phil Jones, PhD, is the CRU Director. He confirmed suspicions about the infamous “Hockey Stick” graph when, in an email, he called it “Mike’s Nature trick” (because a version of that graph appeared in a paper by Dr. Michael Mann in the prestigious journal Nature ). He also wrote that the “trick” was designed to “hide the decline” in tree ring proxy data. The tree-ring expert associated with CRU, Keith Brifa, PhD, admits, in one of the emails that “the recent warmth was probably matched about 1,000 years ago”. (My Powerpoint set includes slides with direct quotes from the Climategate materials.)

- Moving on to the FOIA emails from GISS, it is interesting to note that their HQ, in New York City, happens to be in the same building as the famous restaurant where Jerry Seinfeld dined with George, Kramer, and Elaine. (It was never revealed what Kramer did for a living – perhaps he was the chief analyst at GISS :^)
- The most revealing email from GISS is reproduced above. It was from Makiko Sato, PhD to her Boss, GISS-Director James Hansen, PhD, detailing the seven different analyses and comparisons of US mean temperatures for 1934 and 1998. The later year was the hottest in the 1990’s, so it was, let us say “inconvenient” that 1934, according to data published by GISS in 1999, was over 0.5ºC warmer. If Global Warming was almost entirely due to recent human activities, and was accelerating, how could the 1930 have been warmer?
- Just as the Hockey Stick made the Medieval Warm Period disappear, GISS tried mightily to make 1934 cooler than 1998, but only succeeded in reducing the 0.5ºC lead into a dead heat. Notice that the 0.5ºC “adjustment” is more than half the supposed total warming since 1880.
- I would like to trust the work of taxpayer-supported science, but, it seems, we must rely on President Reagan’s advice regarding the old Soviet Union, “Trust, but verify!”
D. What We Can and Should Do – Energy policy (cap and trade scam vs carbon tax). Efficiency, conservation, “green“, and renewable sources.
- I am quite sure that Global Warming is REAL (i.e. the mean temperature of the Surface has increased by 0.5 to 0.6ºC since 1880) but, most of that increase is due to Natural Cycles over which we humans have no control.
- However, the warming is PARTLY Due to Rising CO2 Levels and human actions are PART of the Cause.
- There is not and never has been any real danger of catastrophe or even of serious net detriment to human life due to increased CO2 levels. Indeed, modest increases in these parameters are most likely a net benefit.
- However, we Skeptics have to be realistic in the current political climate. Like it or not (and I do not like it) the official climate “Team” (i.e., the “Hockey Team” :^) has convinced the political and media establishment, and much of the population that something has to be done. We cannot fight something with nothing, so we need something more than a passive policy of do nothing because nothing is necessary.
- Therefore, I favor reduction of the carbon footprint by efficiency, conservation, recycling, and so on, plus the introduction, if and when economically practical of so-called “Green” energy, including Nuclear, Water, Wind, Biomass and, particularly, “Clean” Coal.
- If nothing else, these will do minimum harm and, if successful, will reduce US dependence upon foreign oil. We have spent, and continue to sacrifice too much blood and treasure protecting our access, and that of our allies, to energy from unstable regions of the world.
- As for the Cap and Trade scam, it is a Politician’s Delight that rewards powerful Interests, wrecks the economy, and will NOT significantly reduce carbon emissions. It seems to me that some countries and US states that have adopted Cap and Trade have realized their folly and are backing away from it.
- You may be surprised that I favor some version of a straight Carbon Tax, collected at the mine, well, and port, with the proceeds returned on an equal basis to citizens and legal residents. Yes, James Hansen and (pardon the expression Ralph Nader) also favor it, but, so do conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer, the Wall Street Journal, and others on the right. My support for this tax is based on what I wrote above, “We cannot fight something with nothing” and “We have spent, and continue to sacrifice too much blood and treasure protecting our access, and that of our allies, to energy from unstable regions of the world.”
I’m interested in your critique and comments. (My Powerpoint presentation is available [click here] for you to use and adapt as you wish..)
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Venus: No Greenhouse Effect
I think your point D.2 bothers me more than any other meme in the climate debate.
To which I respectfully respond: Please prove it, or qualify, refine, or retract the statement.
I’ve heard that before, and looked in vain for accompanying proof. I could be ill-informed in this regard, but as far as I can tell there are no (zero, zip, nada, none-at-all) unimpeached measurements that support any (that is “a-n-y”) assignment of causation for any degree of change in Earth’s global temperature, whether positive or negative, to either carbon dioxide or to humans or to human-produced carbon dioxide.
I could well be wrong about that, I’m not a meteorologist, climate scientist, or dendrophrenologist. If I am wrong and you point me to respectable reasoning based on reproducible data I’ll thank you. (But Jeez! Your own post points out CO2 lags temperature.)
I’m not a physicist either, but I did stay in a room with some network theory books once. It seems to me that if the assertion D.2 relies solely on the thermodynamic argument, as I suspect it does, then it reflects a naivete regarding complex systems. Certainly CO2 absorbs and re-emits a fraction of radiant energy that would otherwise escape. If the world was linear one might reliably reason from this measured fact to the conclusion that despite whatever damping mechanisms may exist, the global temperature must rise at least a tiny amount. The climate system is not linear, however, it’s complex verging on chaotic and D.2 does not follow from the basic CO2 heating model alone.
Finally, I do hope you don’t advocate a “strategy” of throwing a sop to soften an “astute audience” or shorten the distance they have to travel. Reasoning from idealized models (for the best of reasons, of course) is near the heart of this whole mess.
“Carbon Tax … revenue neutral … return all revenue to the people”.
Except that the process of diverting investment to non-preferred ends destroys wealth. There is no such thing as ‘revenue neutral taxation’.
As an extreme but logically equivalent example imagine the government taxes everyone at 100% in order to make chocolate, then gives all the chocolate back to the people. Are people then as wealthy as they were before (ignoring ancillary costs)? According to the “revenue neutral” concept the answer must be ‘yes’. But clearly the correct answer is ‘no’. (For anything other than chocolate the answer would he “hell no!”)
One thing that would help greatly is for scientists to read the first few chapters on introductory economics. It’s not hard, but it’s a way of looking at things that brings the meaning of liberty to life (and don’t bother with the later chapters, for the same reason; most economists make a fatal mistake around about chapter 3 or 4 that invalidates subsequent chapters). But the basic stuff is good, and should really be taught in primary school.
Basic physics of radiation cooling in this presentation is also wrong. Imagine atmosphere without CO2, but with clouds and water vapor. Its wet adiabatic lapse rate (that is, drop of temperature with altitude due to adiabatic cooling of air going upward, or heating of air going downward) will be 5C per 1 km. At the altitude at which outgoing radiation is in equilibrium with temperature (effective blackbody radiation) this temperature should be -18C. It is around 4 km altitude. So, the surface will have average temperature 20 C warmer than that, that is, 2C. This is approximately what we would have if there were thermal equilibrium of ocean and atmosphere, without any GHE involved. The whole difference between calculated surface temperature (2C) and measured temperature (14C) is due to absence of thermal equilibrium between ocean and atmosphere.
“1366 Watts per meter”
Anthony, I had no idea your family was so large.
Ira,
A sterling effort but I think you have a massive task in trying to align skeptics. The problem is that even if you remove the outliers, skeptics do not all agree with each other. The AGW argument can be summarized as something like this:
1. Human CO2 emissions have caused CO2 build up in the atmosphere
2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas
3. Human emitted CO2 has a significant added greenhouse effect over natural effects
4. Recent warming has been measured
5. This warming is unprecedented
6. It can be attributed to human emitted CO2
7. The warming will get worse due to positive feedbacks
8. We are fairly confident on the sign and magnitude of those feedbacks
9. The effects of the continued warming will be bad
10. There are things we can do about to mitigate the continued warming
11. The effects of those things will be good
Let’s not get sidetracked onto how accurate that summary is – you get the idea.
It is clear even from this thread that skeptics don’t agree on which step in that chain to refute. And you can’t just say “all of them”, because if you are skeptical about, say, step (3), then it makes no sense to even discuss the later steps. I honestly don’t know what the answer is. Being a skeptic of, say, homeopathy or creationism is easy – you argue that the whole thing is a crock. There are AGW skeptics that hold that view of AGW, but I think they are in a minority.
What do you think?
“That will encourage low and moderate income folks to use walk, bike, or use public transportation to get to work, to vacation locally, and so on to save money”
=====================================================
good grief
Kumbaya, group hug
And all this saving money won’t hurt a single person on the other end that needs to make money.
Ira, I had my doubts before, now I don’t. Take off the rose colored glasses and the flip flops.
There are lots of things I’m ignorant on, but unlike some people here, I try not to advertise just how dumb I am.
One thing which confuses me is that bit about the 800 year lag of CO2 rise following temperature rise. Does the extra CO2 amplify the warming? In the absence of warming, can increased CO2 cause warming?
Compliments Ira on a well crafted presentation.
PS Please correct to:
“Yes, James Hansen and (pardon the expression) Ralph Nader . . .”
Why are you in favour of a tax on carbon bearing in mind you said?:
Are you in favour of a tax on man-made soot which is responsible for much of the Arctic ice and glacial melt?
Skeptic Strategy for Talking About Global Warming
Tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
800 y is about right for phase-lag if what you are seeing is variable geological (carbonate rock at ocean floor) carbon dioxide brought into atmosphere through, say, mechanisms like the Thermohaline Circulation. This is potentially seen in radiocarbon callibration data for Mangerud boundaries, from say, the Younger Dryas, when such ‘overturning circulation’ is thought to be shut-down or greatly reduced, with less old carbon being introduced to atmosphere. Here the callibration curve adds at least 1000 years to get ‘true’ date, reflecting a radical decrease in availability of old carbon. As the callibration is brought further into the Pleistocene (work of Goslar and others), I suspect other similar correlations will become apparent.
Here you go again. ;>) Please can you let me know your source that states that wind is carbon-free? You really do need to clarify that one. Co2 is released in wind power’s production costs, transportation, grid, roads plus conventional power has running as a back up for periods of no wind. The turbines have to be kept turning by conventional power [when] there is no wind to avoid damage………………………………..
I would mention thorium, specifically, as an alternative. This is surprisingly little
known. Here is a link I found helpful:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html
I enjoyed the presentation. …..Lady in Red
*clearing throat*
Rational friends, reasonable romans. Down to earth countrymen!
It is worse than we thought. This reefer madness.
We are gathered here today, not because it was where we really wanted to be, but because of necessity.
We are surrounded by the crazed climate communist hippie parade and they “wantses” to get paid.
For doing absolutely gobbledygook!
They are, of course, a bunch of heedless headless chickens running around screaming in alarm, just about what ever. Essentially, what about is of little import. It’s the screaming that they find so exciting. An inner ear thing perhaps, or just mindless?
There’s, apparently, not enough dope for them to smoke to even turn up to their own debate. No cohones.
According to reasonable logical conclusion there appear to be absolutely no neuron firing inside the skull of the hippie drone masses. It is like they’re all mindless puppies running around to their masters every whim only to gobble up the last of humanity.
We’ve all heard about it. Their message of what is to befall the rest of us if nothing is done.
It has been depicted time and again in movies. It has even been totted by hysterical media and government agencies alike, sometimes just for fun even.
Deep down we all know what it is the crazed climate communist hippie parade is all about. So let me ask you a simple question:
From where, do you think, does the mindless, gutless, heedless, shrieking z o m b i e spring from?
Typo:
by conventional power when there is no wind to avoid damage………………………………..
Great stuff Ira.
Just a word of caution, in 2008 I did a similar presentation to a ‘third age science ‘ group – one of whom, would you believe, was a Cambridge (UK) alumnus (is that it?) of a world renowned scientist. They havn’t spoken to me since! Who was that said ‘If you tell people what they know, they think you are great, and if it’s what they don’t know they hate you’ All the best.
A very good presentation It is realy good, clear and Succinct. Thank you.
The one theme that is lacking in your presentation is that you don’t question the hypothosis that CO2 and global warming will be bad for the planet. Plants need CO2, water, warmth and nutrients to grow. Higher levels of CO2 and warmer temperatures will promote plant growth that will certainly improve crop yields. I can’t quote a proper study, but I believe the increase in farmable regions in the north will more than offset farmland submerged by rising sea levels. We know that we can deal with warmer temperatures, we can’t deal with significantly cooler temperatures, so we should all be relieved that CO2 warms the earth (or at least doesn’t cool it).
Mr. Glickstein, under section D point 1 you write, “1.I am quite sure that Global Warming is REAL (i.e. the mean temperature of the Surface has increased by 0.5 to 0.6ºC since 1880) but, most of that increase is due to Natural Cycles over which we humans have no control.”
Could you expand on which Natural Cycles and quantify each cycles role in the current warming?
We tax Gasoline to pay for highways. Simple and obvious — no way for that to fail – be unfair, etc. etc. We tax gasoline to pay for highways – and bike paths — and urban mass transit — and health care — and public sector pensions……….
When you tax something you get less of it. You raise its cost, falsely assigning capital to less efficient alternatives. You assign great judgement and wisdom to the public sector to direct the consequential spending, a presumption yet to yield a succesful real world trial.
Pooh, sir! Publish the truth and let Adam Smith’s invisible hand work. It will be messy and inefficient, but less messy and inefficient that your proposed alternative.
Mr. Glickstein, in section B point 12 you write, “12.Skeptics have well-justified suspicions that the official climate data keepers were “cooking the books” to lend whatever support they could to the highest estimates of carbon sensitivity. Around the year 2000, US Mean Temperature data was “adjusted” down by 0.1 to 0.2ºC for years prior to the 1970′s, and upwards by 0.2 to 0.3ºC for years after the 1970′s, increasing supposed warming by 0.3 to 0.5ºC.”
Does a new paper which Mr. Watts was a part of show that these suspicions about US temperatures are mostly unfounded, that there is no known warming bias in the US temperature record?
I would concentrate on Climategate and climate debates. The primary tool the warmists and eco-communists cling to is the appeal to authority, claiming all the scientists on thier side. I would spend a lot of time on Climategate and also introduce the fact that all the major “open” debates between the warmists and sceptics have been won by the sceptics. The debates in NYC with Michael Criton and Gavin Schmidt and the debate in Oxford should be highlighted in my opinion
Look, one of the assumptions is that global warming is bad. It isn’t. It improves the ability of agriculture to take care of earth’s human population. After all that showing that the alarmists are all wet, you still want to go along with them in some form? That doesn’t make any sense.
We’re about due for another big cold period, ie ice age. Were their predictions about CO2 and it increasing temps substantially actually true, we would want to get out ahead of the problem by stuffing as much CO2 as we could into the atmosphere. Unfortunately, I don’t think it is that effective at holding energy in and exacerbating increased moisture that will kick the temps up to catastrophic levels. Taking any action on reducing CO2 or deliberately stuffing more into the atmosphere just for the sake of appeasing the warmists or the coolists is a waste of money. It costs money to get carbon out of the ground. People want cheaper energy. People have always found a way to do it and there are several promising technologies for getting it. The problem is the warmists aren’t really about solving CAGW, they want control and they’ve found a lever to get it. As soon as they get control, they won’t care any more. And we will all be hosed to the max.
The green’s hypocrisy shows in the manner they treat mercury. When I was a teen, it was all the rage to worry about that element. They were about eliminating all sources of it. But wait, now we are being forced to switch to mercury bearing light bulbs and not a peep out of them. They are willing to poison the environment to get control over energy production. They hate energy in ANY form. Most people do not want to go back to the stone age. They want to advance, go to the stars, go where peeps haven’t been before (where have I heard that before? :). We need energy to do that. While we’re waiting on new technologies, carbon is our best alternative. The cost of carbon was high enough before the current administration that lots of research was being devoted to researching new technologies. I’m all for not having to pay for carbon if there is something cheaper.
We need to fight back. We can’t give in. The bureaucrats want to take our freedoms away. The motto for the campaign of the current administration was “yes we can”. They are in office now and saying ala Megamind “no you can’t”. They are telling us we can’t buy the products we want by prohibiting manufacturers from making them. We are less safe because car manufacturers have to make lighter and more energy efficient vehicles. We can’t have what we want because the government won’t let us use the energy necessary to have what we want, even if we have the money.
This post basically says, sure the AGW crowd is wrong, but we’ll go along just to look like we’re doing something. STOP IT.
“Greenhouse” warming is primarily done by the ocean. Sunlight penetrates and warms the ocean to a depth of 100 meters. Water is quite opaque to infrared wavelengths thus the energy from the sun cannot escape radiatively except from a very thin film on the surface. Conduction and convection are the only means by which the energy from sunlight absorbed below the ocean surface can make its escape.
This is EXACTLY the same mechanism by which greenhouse gases work. The big difference is there’s more water in the first meter of the ocean than there is in the entire column of air above it.
This is an elephant in the AGW debate room. It isn’t the atmosphere that warms the earth 33C warmer than a barren rock like the moon. It’s the ocean that’s responsible for most of that. The atmosphere does little more than establish a high enough surface pressure to allow an ocean to exist in the first place.
Many here seem to think that we are winning the war. While some battles are being won – the war is still being lost. Once AGWists infiltrated our schools and other social institutions, we were outflanked. As a good example, peruse todays BBC headline about OXFAM’s declaration that AGW is the direct cause of current high food prices AND all future price rises.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13597657
No one suspects OXFAM of being a subversive or conspiratory group, therefore this article is accepted, by most, as valid.
I always thought the Greek mythical monster (Hydra) was a fairy tale, but cut the pseudo scientific head from the AGW body and seven heads replace it. Where-o-where will we find a gorgon’s head? We are fighting against real sorcery with spoons. GK