BBC – 30 May, 2011
Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022
Germany’s ruling coalition says it has agreed a date of 2022 for the shutdown of all of its nuclear power plants.
Environment Minister Norbert Rottgen made the announcement after a meeting of the ruling coalition that lasted into the early hours of Monday.
Story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13592208
Ian W says:
May 30, 2011 at 10:21 am
“If all the industrialized countries that were the ‘rich’ countries are de-industrialized due to IPCC policies, where will the riches and largesse come from to be redistributed?”
At Woodstock, the British group 10 Years After sang the song, “I’d Love To Change The World”. The lyrics were eerily prophetic: “Tax the rich, feed the poor, Till we run out, rich no more.”
“Claude Harvey says:
May 30, 2011 at 8:48 pm ”
The problem with pointing to Fukushima is that it is like saying that 1960’s Corvairs and deadly in head-on collisions so we should stop producing all modern cars.
Units 1 through 4 were *already* slated to be shut down and dismantled. Had this quake waited 10 or 20 years, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in right now. This was the strongest quake in the recorded history of Japan, which goes back a very long time.
Modern plants would not have had the problems Fukushima had because modern plants do not require power or mechanical pumps to dump decay heat.
So the argument of pointing to Fukushima as justification for eliminating all nuclear power plants is like pointing at the Corvair as justification for eliminating all motor cars. We just need to get those old plants decommissioned and replaced with newer ones that do not have this problem.
It just doesn’t stop this bickering about details. It’s irrelevant how much damage the reactors caused. That’s detailing.
What really counts is the big picture. How much energy is produced at what cost (in everything money, health, other damage).
So:
Doing a cost/benefit analysis isn’t hard.
It took a major earthquake, a tsunami, multiple chemical explosions to cause the current damage to almost half a century old reactor in Japan. Which is still limited compared to chernobyl.
At the same time it produced half a century of ‘green’ reliable energy.
If anything it proved beyond a shadow of doubt that nuclear energy is the safest form of all.
Re:crosspatch says:
May 30, 2011 at 10:49 pm
“Modern plants would not have had the problems Fukushima had because modern plants do not require power or mechanical pumps to dump decay heat.”
Where do you get such crap? There isn’t an operating nuclear power plant in the U.S., BWR or PWR, that does not require electrically driven mechanical pumps to haul out the heat from a scrammed reactor as well as decay heat. Why do you imagine there is so much emphasis on backup power trains? There are such unproven “gravity” designs on the boards, but they have yet to see the light of day in the real world about which we are discussing.
Re:_Jim says:
May 30, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Claude Harvey says on May 30, 2011 at 4:40 pm
…
unit four reactor building leaning like the Tower Of Pizza
Bldg #3 suffered a greater-intensity explosion; please point me to the pictures you used to make this ‘leaning’ determination of #4.
As of a few weeks ago, inspecting a number of pictures I saw no Tower of Pizza lean on #4 …
If you will read the Japanese news accounts and TEPCO’s reports, you will find the following:
Unit Four reactor building was severely damaged, probably by a hydrogen explosion, the source of which is suspected to have come from hydrogen backing into the building from the vent stack it shared with Unit Three. Unit Four reactor building is tilting on its vertical axis and frantic efforts are underway to shore the building up with pylons being constructed under the fuel pool. A large dike is also being constructed around the out-of-kilter fuel pool. If that fuel pool with three reactor loads of fuel gets away from them, it’s gonna’ get much uglier that it is already.
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The Germans persist in their foolishness. I think they have gone mad again, this time to the farthest left of the spectrum from where they went in 1933. They will rue the day they made this decision.
Ken S says:
May 30, 2011 at 7:29 am
Chris Wright says:
May 30, 2011 at 3:03 am
“Hydro-electric is far more dangerous.”
“I am not against nuclear power, however can you please explain how Hydro-electric is in any way, shape or form dangerous?”
When hydro-electric dams fail the potential for catastrophe is enormous, for obvious reasons (mostly flooding or catastrophic failures in the generating station – for example, a failure at a station in Russia killed around 70 people).
Try googling for ‘hydro electric disaster’ or something similar.
I can’t put my finger on it right now, but it has been stated here at WUWT that, based on deaths for a given amount of power generated, nuclear is one of the safest and hydro-electric is more dangerous.
Chris
‘If you could have bridged that gap with a least something resembling rationality, your final-line delivery might carry some legitimacy … ‘
Are you trying to say this is not an environmental catastrophy?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-30/japan-risks-chernobyl-like-dead-zone-as-fukushima-soil-radiation-soars.html
Then I wrote that there is no end in sight
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110530a2.html
So now Tepco think that it may be impossible to stabilize the reactors by the end of the year… hmmm that date just gets pushed further and further back. What do you think is going to happen in the meantime ‘Jim’? Use some of that famed rationality of yours…
@BrianH
“Do you happen to know what kind of conventional plant the Deutsche-gov is planning to use for the mandatory 100% (new) backup of wind and solar?”
I’m not sure they have a clear plan. They do not have a clear line at all, not even a stupid one, and they’re economically incompetent. This is the same government that not long ago legislated to extend the lifespans of the nuclear reactors, and then invented a special tax for them. Now they’re going the opposite way, but the tax stays in place. It is also the same government thought it would be a good idea to pay citizens for having their automobiles destroyed.
Anyway, currently there is a lot of talk about natural gas, also coal, and “developing storage technologies”.
shev says:
May 31, 2011 at 3:22 am
Are you trying to say this is not an environmental catastrophy?
As compared to what? Deliberately flooding hundreds of sq km of land for hydro or cutting off mountaintops for coal or leaking millions of gallons of oil into the ocean? Deforestation for cooking and heating fuel?
Then I wrote that there is no end in sight
Here is the decay heat estimate by Tepco.
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_110526_01-e.pdf
At some point some form of dry cask storage will be possible. Even without dry cask storage..the cooling challenge becomes less challenging with time.
Pheewww!! Great stuff !!
I was really worried that German industry would take over all of Europe, and make us all slaves of the Teutons.
No need to worry now…… Thanks, Angela 😉
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>>jorgekafkazar says: May 30, 2011 at 9:05 am
>>The UK is under the control of twit-of-the-week pseudointellectuals
>>whose grasp of science is below first year university level.
Prime minister Cameron acknowledged that he devised his foreign aid policy by watching Live-Aid concerts. These politicians are not simply stupid, they are downright dangerous.
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>>fp says:
>>He’s probably referring to dam failures like this one: >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam
Ouch, what a disaster.
You should have highlighted the fact that some 170,000 people died in this dam failure, making hydroelectricity probably the most dangerous form of electrical production known to man. Only heartless nutters would support hydroelectricity.
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This is great, they will only be able to make BMW cars on windy days.
Also their hydo at full whack will last about 2 days before the lakes are empty.
barking mad.
David, UK says:
May 30, 2011 at 2:35 am
_ ___ _
Maybe you just hit the nail precisely on the head!
Good. I hope the morons close down their nukes ASAP…we will pick their economic bones.
alan says:
May 30, 2011 at 5:32 am
OT, but in Germany the current E-coli cucumber outbreak has been traced to organic produce from Spain. 1200 cases and growing. “Organic” seems to have some serious dangers.
_ _ _ _
Yes, you are off topic. However, I have to challenge your statement. We have never had problems with Spanish (or any other) organic salad item. We always WASH the stuff; so basic a routine it shouldn’t need second thought, but I see most people never bother to wash any salad. I have had upsets when eating away from home, but never at home.
ShrNfr says:
May 30, 2011 at 7:53 am
A couple of things. You should have left knee out of the title of this story.
Secondly, without a financially strong Germany the EU is toast.
– – – – –
The sooner the EU is toast, the better…hooray!
The Banqiao dam was begun in April 1951 on the Ru River with the help of Soviet consultants ….
Well that explains it, the Soviets were involved. Someone should write a book about all the catastrophic disasters Soviet engineers were involved with.
Time to buy stocks related to coal mining when the Germans have give up on CO2 fraud in favour of energy realism. They admitted that an additional 40 million additional tones of carbon dioxide will be emitted annually as the country turns to fossil fuels and in particular coal. (Startling revelation from such a greenified nation)
In reality Germany has just told admitted to the world that their faith in the supposed junk science catastrophe of our time “global warming” is over.
Neither the Westinghouse AP line of plants or the GE ESBWR require electricity to move water to dump decay heat. They use convection, evaporation, condensation, and gravity. They don’t use ANY pumps in the emergency cooling system, it is all done by natural forces.
Here is a reference for my above comment:
http://www.ap1000.westinghousenuclear.com/ap1000_safety.html
*MODERN* plants are much simpler and safer than the ancient 1960’s designed plants that are still running today.
In fact, the GE ESBWR was developed with Hitachi to *replace* the current GE BWRs in Japan.
Another reference:
http://www.nuclear.gov/np2010/pdfs/esbwrOverview.pdf
Note the recirculation pumps have been *eliminated*
No, wait for the uranium to bottom because it’s beat down so bad that it just has to bounce. Glad I held my cash this morning.
I used to respect the German people. I don’t know why. At least they get to have light and heat through 2022.
Of course, the US is hellbent on copying German history, re. Weimar Republic, so, not too much smarts over here, either.
What’s the bet that the shutdown will not happen and that by 2022 there will be renewal of nuclear power in germany – fads pass with time.