Guess which newspaper does not have OBL on the front page?

As WUWT commenter “Andrew30” puts it, “the silence is telling”. The biggest story in the world today happens in their own backyard, and they don’t report it?

See for yourself at the Pakistan Daily Times: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk

So much for a “new voice for a new Pakistan” I suppose. Gaddafi’s NATO air strike seems to be OK though.

I wonder if the Hyatt Regency knows they are advertising on this site?

Here’s a great backstory on the whole thing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/the-secret-team-that-killed-bin-laden (h/t to Steve Mosher via Facebook)

UPDATE: about six hours after this was posted, a story finally showed up on the website. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk Maybe they are just slow, but there hardly seems to be a newsroom in the world that didn’t race to get this story up, arguably, one of the biggest in the last decade – Anthony

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113 thoughts on “Guess which newspaper does not have OBL on the front page?

  1. This complaint is misplaced…. and quite ignorant.
    For Pakistan, PPP joining forces with the Muslim League ( the venerable party that created Pakistan in the first place ) Is a lot bigger news, and it is really earth shattering in it’s future implications. It almost guarantees PPP win in the next election.
    Compared to that death of UBL is a non event.
    and for americans ( and pakistanis too ), that is a very good news. This friday, ML party big wigs most probably will instruct the Imams know that they should focus on this news, instead of whipping up a feeding frenzy.
    REPLY: Sorry, but the death of OBL is the biggest story in the world today, the criticism stands. – Anthony

  2. Of course they don’t wanna run it. They just had a major foreign military operation happen in their country and they didn’t even know it. Why? Because of a genuine concern for the security and integrity of the operation…as a result of the corruption of the government.
    What’s really comical is the byline at the bottom under National..: “Low literacy responsible for deteriorating law and order”

  3. Perhaps it is best if this kept low key in Pakistan.
    The potential for this to inflamed by anti-American forces into a major Pak-US problem is quite large.
    We (rightfully, imho) just invaded a sovereign nation to kill people and blow up stuff in its territory.
    Not tossing gasoline on this smouldering problem is probably a good idea.
    At the least, there is a huge conflict of goals in the Pakistani leadership.
    If there are parties in Pakistan who are truly pro-western and anti-Jihadi, we need to help them and not hurt them by enabling reactionary forces to fan the flames of public opinion on this.

  4. I’m willing to bet that they haven’t quite figured out how to explain the fact that Obama was living in a mansion within walking distance of Pakistan’s top military academy – in a neighborhood filled with retired senior Pakistani military officers.
    Obviously Obama knew he was among friends.
    and the 2 brothers, caretakers who supposedly built and owned this $1,000,000 mansion were nothing but unemployed day laborers who had no actual jobs. But they’re the “owners”??? Obviously the Paki govm’t has from the start scrubbed all the records and laundered all of the funds for this place. This was a Paki govm’t safe house, which is why the US didn’t tell them about the operation until it was over.
    maybe the funniest part is that by staging a military raid *inside* Pakistan, in a military town, the US has technically just committed an Act of War against Pakistan; except that now the Pakistanis are going to have to stand and smile and chant in unison “Thank You Sir, May I Have Another?? Thank You Sir, May I Have Another??”
    ROFL! No wonder they don’t want to talk about it!!!

  5. Although nandheeswaran may have a point about the importance of current events, Anthony is correct, to the point he is making: The death of Osama is *big news*.

  6. The death of OBL is of course the biggest story in the world today and a wonderful day for America and the world, but equally true is that there are probably as many Pakistanis who are saddened by this event as are happy about it. With that nation so divided with their loyalties it it not surprizing at all that certain newpapers (whose loyalties become apparent) would not want to put the death of OBL as the headline. Given the fact that Pakistan is so divided and given that they possess nukes, this remains a key security issue for the world.

  7. Anthony, while Usama may be the biggest story in the world at the moment, it’s a climate vs weather thing. If the global climate is cooling/warming, you wouldn’t expect a local farmer to worry about it if his local weather is having a buttload of rain right when he wants to harvest.
    Pakistan doesn’t care nearly as much about the global temperature trends (the Usama story) as much as they do about getting a ton and a half of rain right now (the PPP story). That rain is a lot more important at the moment than worldwide trends.
    However, that said – you’d think they would have at least put up some sort of Usama story, even if it wasn’t the top story. Last time I heard, newspapers can write more than one story at a time!

  8. All Hail JSOC.
    I agree we are ignorant of the reasons the news is not being trumpeted in Pakistan.
    It is embarrassing and it is an act of war.
    ==========

  9. Whilst the civilised World rejoices, alot of Medevialists will be screaming and shouting “death to America”.
    They are too contorted with hatred to realise that Bin Laden and his followers killed more Muslims than the “Great Satan”.

  10. Ooh, wws, beat me to it. Nonetheless, if ’twere done, ’twere well it were done quickly and quietly.
    ================

  11. no surprise….
    Pakistan has been saying he was not in their country all along……

  12. ISI got de Bom. This was brilliantly executed but there had do be a better way. They took their time.
    =============

  13. Anyone know if there is a global warming conference in Denver I don’t know about? Got up in a Denver suburb this morning and there was snow on the ground. It melted pretty fast, but now it’s 1 PM and it’s snowing again.

  14. I could not open the newspaper, but did you consider the question of time difference. Pakistan is 9 hours ahead of the U.S. President Obama did not formally announce the death of Osama bin Laden until after 12:00 AM. Could it be that this paper went to press before 9:00 AM in Pakistan, and was not updated.
    Anthony, you should know that in today’s world, one cannot cover up this type of news. Indeed, if you do some research, you will find that twitter feeds from some computer programmer in Pakistan were the source of the initial reports regarding OBL’s killing.
    I think it would be wise for you to wait until tomorrow’s editions before drawing firm conclusions.

  15. The odd thing I find about the reporting of his death on the BBC and the msm in the uk is that they do not identify his nationality?

  16. Dan: “However, that said – you’d think they would have at least put up some sort of Usama story, even if it wasn’t the top story.”
    Having talked to some Pakistanis on another site, they don’t believe he was killed. They think that it’s some kind of US hoax.
    Here, this is from a guy in Islamabad:
    “Killing Osama by American troops primafacie not matching the facts and story,people started raising questions why America do not show the body pictures and seen of his injuring on spot and receiving bullet shots, There appears many stories that Osama already expired and same was confirmed By Pakistani and as will as American agencies So being the present conspiracy theory was brought forwarded. “

  17. Ironically, and paradoxically, we need bigtime empathy with the Pakistanis, now. Per the tweets: I hope this is not the start of something big. There goes the neighborhood.
    ===============

  18. When I first saw this post’s headline:
    “Guess which newspaper does not have OBL on the front page? ”
    Thought for sure it was going to be the NYTimes.

  19. Something along the lines of:
    This isn’t personal, it’s just business.
    Better:
    This isn’t business. This is personal.
    =================

  20. Perhaps the Pakistanis know something that we don’t, and are practicing something called journalistic integrity in determining the real facts before pasting sensationalistic headlines across the front pages. All of the hoopla thus far is based upon a few carefully scripted accounts provided by Obama and other government officials.
    But then again, we know that Obama is very reliable and trustworthy in everything he has to say.

  21. The Monday edition of the Pakistani Daily Times closed much before the news of OBL’d death were made public. Apparently they have not updated it during Monday. Look tomorrow (Tue).
    On another topic, I have stayed at the Islamabad Hyatt R., quite a delightful place indeed, and find it quite natural they advertise in this newspaper.

  22. I noticed the same thing last night, quite revealing.
    We can save about 2.5 Billion…
    STOP US AID !

  23. i missed something. watts the point?
    i heard darth vader is dead too! anyone know if thats true?

  24. OBL wished to become a martyr and the US granted that wish.
    What does this mean for the future?
    –Greater political unrest in the region?
    –Or a greater stability thruought the world?
    –Is Al-Quida to be shut down and disbanded from within?
    –Or would the reports of OBL’s death at the hands of an American attack be the signal to ALL sleeper cells to activate and
    ——-begin blowing themselves up worldwide?
    Only time will tell for certain. We will see if, in a few weeks time, the nutjobs start their holy war.
    Since Bin-Laden didn’t blow himself up in a suiside attack on America, does he still get the 72 virgins?
    Baaaad Boy

  25. Andrew30 & Anthony,
    Aljazeera website reported that :

    “8:46am GMT+3 May 2 – At least two Pakistani television stations broadcast pictures of what they called unconfirmed images of Osama bin Laden’s bloodied face after the United States said he had been killed.”

    [ http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/live-blog-osama-bin-laden-killed-us-forces ]
    Note: Pakistan is at GMT+5, so by 10:46 am in Pakistan at least 2 Pakistani TV stations were reporting OBL death, according to Aljazeera.
    So ,although the newspaper “Daily Times” was not reporting OBL death, at least some Pakistani TV networks were aparently showing his death.
    John

  26. And I wouldn’t hold your breath, either. Speculation has it that bin Laden was in an ISI “safe house”, right in the middle of a military town, not 1,000 feet from a military complex, about an hour’s drive north of the capital. And all this time the Pakastani leaders were telling the US that he had to be someplace in Afghanistan. Sure…. Youbetcha!

  27. A local commentator summed it up well, I think, although it applies mainly to Pakistan’s authorities rather than to the media. They’re in a bind because if they say that they helped the Americans hunt down OBL, they will anger islamist militants, and if they say they didn’t, they look like a banana republic. Safer to talk less about it.

  28. Tomorrows headlines:
    Osama not taken alive, huge setback for trial lawyers….
    …Biden finally let out of closet and tape removed from mouth
    film at 11:00

  29. OBL has been dead for years. So why announce it now? Why have the body conveniently buried at sea? Trust us we got him! Trust is in short supply these days, almost as short as truth.
    Simple answer (and quite cynical) is that they plan to boost Obama’s ratings so with OBL dead, the Taliban defeated and a democratically elected government running things the USA can declare victory and withdraw most of its troops to more needed areas. Libya & Syria? Where the rebels can’t find poop in an outhouse and will require ground “supervisors” to win/liberate/whatever.
    Yes the military industrial complex has milked this Afghanistan thing for as much as it can get out of it so on to the new and more profitable wars! Yes the wars will go on and on and dictators will be put into power and then thrown out when their usefulness is used up. Bummer for them. Bummer for all the troops that die.
    War is a Racket – Gen. Smedley Butler
    http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
    Smedley was dead right with his take of that issue. It has only gotten worse since his time. RIP general, you tried to warn us.

  30. Last week EU decided upon to ease up the flight security so that people now can bring on the liquid, like tasty liquor, 130, flammable, proof of Scotish pure spirits, from some islamic countries outside of EU no less. Now we know why? Paradoxical though is that Americans are not allowed to do the same, but, supposedly, the Canadians are. It’s like the rest of the world knew, except the Americans. :p

  31. Obama was a myth that could no longer be sustained. Get real do you really believe what the MSM tells you. It was time to end the myth that’s all. Given the coverage of AGW and WMD before the Iraq invasion and now this media circus, I would say the PDT has it about right.
    Chris

  32. In fairness, the other Pakistani paper that I surf to: “The Dawn” http://www.dawn.com/ put up a sign that said that they were having so much traffic that they had to redirect you to a secondary site. Once they did, they had the story of OBL. I would not judge Pakistan by that one paper, that is why I look at 2 of them.

  33. Looks like the place OBL was hiding was an ISI safe house. Pakistan says OBL isn’t in Pakistan and then when he is found in Pakistan, he is in a ISI safe house. Not surprised there isn’t much news about it in the Paki news papers.

  34. This operation was hugely embarrassing for the Pakistan government because
    a) Bin Laden was in their country.
    b) They did not know about it (or if they did, they did not admit to it, I think this explanation is the most likely).
    c) It took a foreign power to get rid of him, without informing the Pakistan government whatsoever. Again had they confided in the Pakistanis would Bin Laden have disappeared again?
    d) There has been no condemnation of the USA’s attack on Bin Laden from any of the less than radical Islamic countries.
    I would be interested to know the views of the Pakistan government regarding the extermination of this particularly nasty piece of vermin
    The only other comment I would like to make is that Bin Laden’s death is huge news in the UK. I have been working at home doing jobs around the house during today’s Bank Holiday. I heard about his death at 7:00am on Radio 2 news and it was the leading item on each hourly Radio 2 news bulletin until I turned the radio off at 8:00pm. Every news bulletin on the most listened to radio station in the UK has featured his death as the most important news story for the last 13 hours with comments from David Cameron and many other politicians.
    It is BIG, BIG news!!

  35. It seems a little disingenuous to accuse a paper of failing to carry the main headline if it was printed before the story broke. By the same token there is nothing on the British papers about OBL’s death either, although most have updated their websites…
    However there is a lot in the Pakistani media about the OBL raid, ‘Dawn’ is as usual good for a diverse overview, at least one writer makes the point that terrorist acts by groups at least inspired if not Al-Queda and OBL have killed around ten times as many Pakistanis as died in the twin towers on 9/11.
    On the other hand the army general who removed a (sort of) democratic government and ruled as a dictator and ‘good ally’ of Bush during the Gulf wars is complaining about the abuse of sovereignty…
    Where I would predict there will be the deafening sound of silence on this news for some time is the Saudi official news. With its direct links and the threat of internal conflict from those sympathetic to OBL and his repudiation of the Saudi rulers combined with the Arab ‘Jasmine Spring’ risings that pot is one nobody wants to stir.
    What is also fascinating is the range of response here. I must admit to a sneaking admiration for the purity of logic and absolute dogma of a poster like ‘ecliptic’ who argues that given that governments/authorities lie about AGW they will clearly lie about ANYTHING for personal/political profit and that therefore they lie about everything. His(her?) conclusion seems to be that therefore everything is just about the reverse of the ‘consensus’ ‘team’ ‘mainstream media’ version of reality.
    The admiration is tempered by the recognition of numerous false assumptions and logical errors – never mind the inherent contradictions in such a position….
    But there is a problem when the degree credibility you are willing to grant to a source of information becomes dependent on the ideological position you start from. And if that requires you to reject a large body of conventional opinion as intentionally deceitful it is perhaps inevitable that such a judgment begins to infect ALL assessments of information. No knowledge is granted legitimacy; except that which confirms or conforms to a pre-existing bias.
    As far as I can see there are only three possible versions of the OBL news.
    1) OBL as a real leader of a fundamentalist islamic terror group responsible for inspiring if not initiating a significant number of terrorist attacks was finally tracked and killed by US Navy SEALS. Having obtained sufficient information to be sure to their own satisfaction that they had killed the real OBL, and being quite aware that nothing would satisfy some they avoided endless quibbles and the problem of exhibiting a corpse/prisoner by sea disposal.
    2)The Obama administration found a senario where they were confident they could convincingly argue that they had killed OBL. This would require that they were confident there was no risk he would re-appear and prove them wrong or that credible evidence of his earlier death would not emerge and contradict them or that the fake elements are not leaked or detected by people involved in the scam.
    Given the speed with which inside information becomes public these days that would seem to imply a very high degree of confidence in the immunity of their fake operation to whistleblowers and refutation.
    3)The Obama administration and the whole of the US intelligence community has been taken in by a fake OBL. A decoy planted in Pakistan by ‘Them’. Obama is confident about announcing the death of OBL not because it really is OBL or because he is telling politically motivated lies, but because he and the rest of the people working on this have been brilliantly hoodwinked by a mastermind tactician…
    I do understand that politicians and the media have a poor record for full and truthfull disclosure of all information. Often it is partial or inaccurate because those in power try to protect their status or undermine the status of their enemies.
    But politicians and the media also have a very poor record of defending the false information that is revealed or preventing the suppressed information from emerging – sooner or later.
    Unless you are a die-hard conspiracy theorist who holds that the bigger the LACK of evidence the bigger the truth hidden, then Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy, Russia removed the missiles from Cuba because the US removed missiles from Turkey, they really DID land on the moon and OBL was killed by navy SEALS in an operation approved and overseen by a half-black American president with the middle name ‘Hussein’.
    And perhaps not all of what is published about AGW is a giant conspiracy…..
    REPLY: It is a website, websites can be updated immediately, as I do several times a day. Print editions with deadlines I can forgive, not websites – Anthony

  36. Funnily enough, the story isn’t in my copy of today’s edition of the (London) Times, either. Doh…

  37. OBL was killed around 1.30am Monday local Pakistan time. The paper cited was Monday’s paper.
    It is now about 2.40am Tuesday in Pakistan.
    If they publish hardcopy once per 24hrs and if the website simply reflects the hardcopy, ie. not continuously updated, you could not expect the event to be reported before the Tuesday edition.

  38. What do the Pakistanis know that we don’t?
    Or, is the Pakistani Press filtering the news, as is the case in ‘other countries’?

  39. To those who are making excuses for the lack of coverage by this paper/website, I think the point is that this is worthy of a “Special Edition”. At least in the free world. Not doing so is indicative of an agenda that we may want to pay attention to in the future.
    That said: A toast to the operators who carried out this mission! Job well done!

  40. *shrug* im on the fence about this whole thing. Glad we got him, but im not certain it went down like they said it did.
    My gut tells me we KNEW Pakistan was holding him, just not where. So finally we caved and did a secret deal with Pakistan over something, and they finally coughed up the address. Kinda like the Cuban missile crisis where we secretly did an even trade, but all the papers printed it as a great American victory.
    Unless you all believe the Pakistani military is that completely incompetent that they didnt realize the guy they were after lived a block down from their version of “west point” for years.
    Plus consider Pakistans anti-air defenses, especially around its capital and surrounding region, pretty modern, and one of the most defended in the world. There is no way 4 helicopters could make it though that grid without Pakistan allowing it to happen. So the we did the mission alone without getting permission of pakistan statement is total horsecrap

  41. I didn’t realize that WUWT had become a watchdog for the politics of Pakistani journalism. I am not personally concerned with what a particular newspaper in Pakistan (or Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Nepal, Costa Rica, and thousands other daily newspapers around the world) chooses to put on their front page at any particular moment.
    It is only passingly interesting, but not, IMHO, here. Here, I just find it odd. If I were a political scientist, an Islamist, or concerned with the politics of sociopathic nations, I would find it more interesting — but then I wouldn’t visit WUWT to find commentary or post my opinions on such a subject. There is enough anti-Islam nonsense on other sites to last several lifetimes.

  42. Kip
    I recommend you read the sentence on the blog homepage just under “whats up with that”

  43. Gag from Australia’s Greenie Watch site: bin Laden was the cause of global warming. After all, everything else was.
    I’m glad Osama met his end in a big house in a relatively prosperous area, not a cave in a remote area. The latter scenario would make him seem a visionary figure in that part of the world. But just how stupid does Pakistan’s ISI think we are?

  44. Alan Wilkinson says:
    May 2, 2011 at 4:05 pm
    And that newspaper claims Pakistan didn’t know about it (hit) or Bin Ladens whereabouts.
    He was apparently under thier very noses.
    We skeptics know something about journalism and how it gets politically skewed.
    Bottom line: If you want to know more about what’s going on in your country, read the newspapers in yours and other countries, and think about it.

  45. Not wanting to spoil the joy but what again was the evidence of Bin Laden’s responsibility for 09/11 ?

  46. This will be about the 6 th time his death has been announced. And in the meantime we still have not had a thorough investigation of 911, especially building 7 and the “Israeli movers”.

  47. pretty sure i clicked on the link provided and sure enough, OBL Killed was on the frontpage.

  48. I strongly suspect the PAkistani government knew he was there all along. He was less than a mile from a Pakistani military installation. You think they might want to check out that big compound that went up with razor wire all over it to kind of, you know, see what’s happening in there?
    Yeah, they knew. You bet they knew. But they aren’t going to say a damn thing….

  49. “Not wanting to spoil the joy but what again was the evidence of Bin Laden’s responsibility for 09/11 ?”
    Are you f@#$ing kidding me???? Seriously?!?!?

  50. Anthony – this is your first ever fail post. One starred. I hope you won’t be printing any further nonsense like this. You should look at ‘whatreallyhappened’ – and ask yourself why on earth would thay have been hit with a DDOS just moments before Obamas announcement…

  51. Osama Bin Laden’s death is NOTHING. Sorry folks…but I can’t agree with the “hmm…suspicious???” tone that always pops up around these parts. I don’t trust the media either…but Osama Bin Laden is not that big a story at this point. His terrorist organization will probably be stronger without him to serve as a lightning rod for focus and military attention. The biggest thing to fear from this is that Obama will claim victory and use this as an excuse to turn a blind eye to what will doubtlessly be a huge wave of terrorism in response to this minor success.
    In short…it was never about Bin Laden. He was just a rich face with a lot of friends. This does nothing to solve our problems, but the media is celebrating Obama’s win like it were the end of WWII. If you want to be suspicious about something…wonder why it took from August til now to get Bin Laden (the lead hit our desks in August of 2010). Think Obama was saving this one for when his poll numbers needed greasing?

  52. iggi – Bin Laden statement Nov 2007 : “it was I who was responsible for 9/11
    http://911myths.com/index.php/Responsibility
    “al Qaeda claims of responsibility for 9/11 are based on more than just words. They’ve also released videos about the attacks. […]in November 2007 a bin Laden audio tape was played on al Jazeera, where he essentially said Afghanistan should not have been invaded in response to 9/11 because the attacks were his responsibility”
    There is a link to the video, but I haven’t tried it.

  53. wws:
    Check the name of the person living in the mansion. Seems you have equated the PONUS with Public Enemy #1. I know a few US citizens do this anyway, but let the truth be known.

  54. Anyone ever live in a small town?
    Ever since they started building that house, it’s been the talk of the town.
    Of course everyone knew……………..

  55. Latitude,
    Have you ever lived in a developing country that is subject to drug and terrorist violence. Every rich person has a house with high walls covered with barbed wire and glass shreds. Go to Pakistan or Colombia and or Mexico, you will find enough houses like that. Not every house has the world’s most notorious terrorist hiding behind those walls.

  56. Osama is probably dead for years now BUT the character has been deleted if this can start the point of the end of the endless war against a fabricated terrorism this is a Very good news!

  57. please stop posting Alex Jones drivel – he’s full of cr@p…..one day he says “this is the bad guy”, the next day the same one is the good guy…its just silly…i listened to him for about 6 months but after a while you find out he’ll just say anything to get people riled up…

  58. Anthony, have you checked the local time when OBL was killed and the time (early Sunday evening) when that newspaper would have gone to press for its Monday edition? Only if Tuesday’s edition has no mention do you have a point.
    regards
    Tim
    REPLY: Print edition yes, websites can and have been updated in near real-time as this major story unfolded. – Anthony

  59. It makes a lot of sense to wait a while after you’ve discovered his whereabouts, especially if you know he’s been in one place for several years. You can watch the place with satellites and human intel, carry out surveillance on those in Paki government who you think is in contact with, monitor cell phones, radio signals…all sorts of intel may have been gleaned. Then when it gets dry, or you think he might be on to you, you go in for the kill.
    For all you who think this was faked, that’s a secret that can’t be kept. It was going to happen eventually, why not now?

  60. Next year around about …. oh October, there will be a (false-flag op) “terrorist reprisal” – a dirty bomb somewhere in heartland US. Obama will say “This is an unprecedented emergency. I must, reluctantly, suspend the electoral process and take upon myself the burden of shepherding the country through this perilous period”. And hello Permanent Revolution.

  61. Sunfighter says:
    May 2, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    I agree with Sunfighter. The ending of the Cuban crisis was indeed as he says.
    Secret removal of US missiles from Turkey, back then.
    Who wants Pakistan as an enemy? That would be a very,very bad situation for both the US and Pakistan. Nobody wants that.

  62. AFTER THE REVIEW, CANCEL THE AID !
    “The revelation that bin Laden had been holed up in a compound in the military garrison town of Abbottabad, possibly for years, prompted many U.S. lawmakers to demand a review of the billions of dollars in aid Washington gives to nuclear-armed Pakistan.”
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/pakistan-faces-tough-questions-over-bin-laden-000738203.html
    Somebody needs to “pay” for this, but not out of the USA pocketbook please.
    We’ll see how far this goes…

  63. There are other newspapers in Pakistan.Dawn has good stories,and questioning journalists.They aren’t all bad.
    http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/03/truth-will-out.html
    We should be aware that Osama being run to ground in Abbottabad will heighten American suspicions of us, regardless of what we might say. We should also take very serious note of what American leaders are saying about us. While some people might be right in characterising congressman Dana Rohrabacher’s saying we have been playing the Americans for suckers as the view of just one conservative, we must recall Secretary Clinton saying: “I’m not saying that they’re at the highest levels, but I believe that somewhere in this government are people who know where Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda is, where Mullah Omar and the leadership of the Afghan Taliban is, and we expect more cooperation to help us bring to justice, capture or kill those who attacked us on 9/11.”
    Truth will out, only this time it will bring great peril to us if we don’t shape up.

  64. Dear Mr[or Miss, Ms, Mrs . . . you see how it happens? . . kb] Moderator
    A number of posters above have used the term ‘Paki’. Certainly in the uk this is a racist and derogatory term. I know for sure this web site would not wish to be associated with such language. It may well be that the posters were unaware of this.

  65. and in the meantime we still have not had a thorough investigation of 911, especially building 7
    Yes we have,
    Federal Building and Fire Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
    http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/
    – NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster FAQs (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
    http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/nist_investigation_911.cfm
    – NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster FAQs – Supplement (August 30, 2006) (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
    http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
    – NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster FAQs – Supplement (December 14, 2007) (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
    http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_12_2007.htm
    WTC 7
    Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
    http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf
    Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC 7 Investigation (September 17, 2010) (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
    http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.cfm
    All the other nonsense is answered in this video,
    The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 – The Truth Behind The Third Tower (60min) (BBC)
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5313004818217244745#

  66. MattN, “Are you f@#$ing kidding me???? Seriously?!?!?
    No they are serious, 911 Truthers believe in any conspiracy, including nonsense like JFK, the Moon Landings and the NWO.

  67. Good on ya, Anthony. You rose in my esteem. I was about to can you.
    Don’t have to publish this. God bless. 🙂 It takes courage on all our part. Remember Frodo! It was a lonely dangerous job to destroy that ring. You are part of the fellowship!

  68. we’ve seen the nist stuff, poptech. it’s like the climategate enquiries and hockey stick science rolled into one. you cant choose which subject your sceptical about and which your not. you’re either sentient. or you’re not.

  69. @KB Moderator
    Sorry about the assumption of Mr it’s just that I am aware of CTM and Anthony as moderators,and as they say never assume.

  70. Poptech says:
    May 3, 2011 at 5:58 am
    “No they are serious, 911 Truthers believe in any conspiracy, including nonsense like JFK, the Moon Landings and the NWO”
    Yeah, some of them even belive there is a vast conspiracy to doctor the instrumental temperature record, and the ice-cores and sediment records, and the borehole and coral records, and the ice-cap and glacier records along with a century old (apparently) plot to ascribe physical properties to CO2 which would cause it to warm the climate as its level increases.

  71. luxian, I am not downloading silly power point files off some site.
    jo, you fail high school physics too? 911 Truth has nothing to do with Climategate, please don’t insult Steve McIntyre with your insanity and delusions. So you believe in lunatic conspiracy theories about JFK and the Moon Landings too?
    All of the 911 Truther nonsense has been debunked ad nauseum,
    Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
    http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/06/debunking-911-conspiracy-theories.html
    911 Truthers couldn’t research their way out of a paper bag.

  72. “When everyone says the same thing you know someone is lying.”
    “People live on the same planet.” That, fortunately or not, is all that you can say about people and their sameness.
    Look back a thousand years or so. OK, the ‘history’ of the planet in the next thousand years or so is going to be very much the same bag of worms. Why? People, that’s why! People do things other people like and don’t like. If there’s enough people (in your neighborhood) who “like” something, that’s fine. If there’s enough people somewhere else who don’t “like” something then things can get pretty dicey if they can upset the balance elsewhere.

  73. Standard Truther Rants, “Melt Steel, Free Fall, Building 7, Thermite, Controlled Demolition, Pull it, False Flag, Basic Physics…
    Anyone who rants about any of the above as evidence of a 911 conspiracy theory automatically has an IQ below 52.
    Richard Gage (Architects & Engineers For 9/11 Truth) Awesome Free Fall Demo!!!

    Case Closed. ROFLMAO!

  74. david elder says:
    May 2, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    Gag from Australia’s Greenie Watch site: bin Laden was the cause of global warming. After all, everything else was.

    Wouldn’t he be the result of global warming, just like everything else? Surely only CO2 causes GW. 😉

  75. I notice many people write “Obama” when they mean “Osama ( Bin Laden)”.
    Wattsupwiththat?

  76. @MattN/Poptech, asking for evidence regarding OBL’s involvement in 09/11 does not make me a conspiracy nutter. Since western democracies (including the USA) consider themselves built upon principles of law, and in absence of legal/public proceedings in dealing with the guilt, death and burial of OBL , it is legitimate to ask the question: what is the actual evidence of his involvement apart from some youtube video presented on a TV-show (see above).

  77. Actually, in a fit of irony, Pravda [‘truth’] on-line didn’t cover the death of OBL on Monday.
    On Tuesday (late in the day…), their ONLY mention of OBL’s death is that it’s a fake event to cover up NATO’s killing of Kadaffy’s youngest son, and his three grandchildren (which I find regrettable).
    Some things NEVER change…

  78. The longer Obama waits to release proof of Bin Ladens death, the less the world will believe it. That’s the darned if you don’t.
    Admiral Yamamoto’s infamous words now come to mind, this the the darned if you do.
    I have a question about the place he was supposedly killed:
    What is a self-described Moslem holy man doing in a security compound?
    Hint: most prophet-types throughout history are found living in places few would want to call home. In this case, the territory comes with the job description.
    The part of the story that doesn’t sit very well, along with certain details which are now changing.

  79. iggi – I agree that wishing to confirm that there is convincing evidence of OBL’s involvement in 9/11 is entirely reasonable. However, in the circumstances (eg. anti-western operators who died on 9/11 or are based in non-western countries) it is pretty obvious that it may be difficult to obtain evidence up to a typical western lawcourt standard. The fact that some of the evidence is a “youtube video presented on a TV-show” is irrelevant. The relevant issue is whether the evidence is genuine. (Just as in Climategate, where the principal issue of relevance to climate science is not how the files were obtained, but simply whether they were genuine). Add in further evidence, including but not limited to the link I gave you earlier, and I am satisfied that there is substantial evidence that OBL played a major role in 9/11. I would also suggest that it would not have been very difficult or time-consuming for you to have found the evidence for yourself instead of posting the question here and expecting others to do the work.

  80. If OBL was still alive, would he be able to prove it.
    After all the fuss, you would think he would try.

  81. u.k.(us) says:
    May 3, 2011 at 8:24 pm
    If OBL is still alive, there’s no telling when he’ll pop up with another one of his videos. Perhaps there is more tale to this game than meets the eye.

  82. I was reading a report today that bin Laden’s undoing might actually be weather related. It seems that the courier who was tracked back to the compound where the bin Ladens were living had been delivering a video bin Laden made last summer with an appeal for aid to flood victims in Pakistan.
    It was apparently during the course of getting this video into the distribution system that he placed a phone call that was able to be intercepted and allowed him to be followed back to the compound.

  83. @-Poptech
    I think I understand your eagerness to close down any discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories.
    Any association between climate ‘skeptics’ and skeptics of the ‘Truther’, ‘Birther’, Creationist type would obviously reflect badly on the climate skeptics. Obviously climate skeptics would not want to be grouped with the ‘waistband IQ’ brigade who think the moon landings were faked….
    There are ID/Creationist sites that have long lists of scientific papers that they claim call into question the basic theory of evolution by Natural selection. These are usually highly selective interpritations of the research, not matching what the actual researchers view as the point of the research, usually just quibbles over details of the mechanism of evolution, not attacks on the basic premise.
    Such a stratergy and tactic if employed by climate skeptics would allow them to lumped in wioth the kooks and cranks of the YEC/ID crowd….

  84. It’s odd to hear politicians and pundits simultaneously declaring that snagging Bin Laden is both a major victory and not-victory at the same time. It’s an event that has both changed the world and left it unaltered; a death that has made us safer by somehow increasing the threat of terrorist attack. It’s like the Schrodinger’s Cat of historical events.

  85. According to the Pak Daily Times story,
    “Panetta told Time magazine that “it was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardise the mission: They might alert the targets.” ”
    But according to the Telegraph report:
    “..Many I spoke to believed that the feared ISI – the intelligence arm of the Pakistan state – must have known that the Khans’ safe house, scarcely a kilometre from the Pakistan military academy, harboured the world’s most wanted man. In the end bin Laden may have been turned in by his captors in a grand bargain between America and Pakistan.
    Mohammed Qasim, the farmer’s boy, was caught up in the momentous events that led to bin Laden’s death in the early hours of Sunday. He said that one of the US special forces helicopters landed in the field just behind his house. Masked men emerged — Qasim said they spoke fluent Pashtu.
    He heard them smash their way into the Khans’ fortress, followed by the cries of alarm from women and children. Twenty minutes later, he heard the helicopters depart, bearing with them all of the reclusive Khan family, and the body of bin Laden. …”
    Which suggest that Pakistan has some reason for reticence about the story.

  86. Keith Battye said:
    Inotice many people say Obama when they mean Osama (Bin Laden)
    I think they know what they are saying. Osama killed 2300.
    Obama has killed over 230, 000. Mainly civillians.

  87. izen, “There are ID/Creationist sites that have long lists of scientific papers that they claim call into question the basic theory of evolution by Natural selection.
    They don’t have a single peer-reviewed paper in anything but theology or creationist journals, they have nothing in the peer-reviewed scientific or social science literature because creationism has nothing to do with science.
    Nice try and better luck next time.

  88. @-Poptech says:
    May 6, 2011 at 7:11 pm
    “They don’t have a single peer-reviewed paper in anything but theology or creationist journals, they have nothing in the peer-reviewed scientific or social science literature because creationism has nothing to do with science.
    Nice try and better luck next time ”
    I agree completely.
    The claims they make that they have are entirely spurious. The papers they seem to think support their position are not supportive unless your ability to indulge in confirmation bias is rather extravagantly enhanced.
    http://www.discovery.org/a/2640

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