That quote from president Obama tonight. The story here
“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet” – Afghan proverb
UPDATE #3: Zeroing in on the compound. Threes a charm. Like anything in the fog of war, early reports can be erroneous. The first two seemed plausible, especially the second one with the high walls. Now the official Google Earth Blog weighs in:
[UPDATE: The location has essentially been confirmed by the BBC
(via Ogle Earth).] You can fly there with this KML file
or view the image below:
Lat/lon 34.169314° 73.242304° see it on Google Maps
The Pentagon has released this photo, which matches:
A powerpoint from the Pentagon is here (PDF) which shows the details.
======================================================================
UPDATE: I have the compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan mapped on Google Earth below:
Lat/Lon 34.146371° 73.216925° Google Maps It sure looks like a fortress. I’m betting they special forces landed the copters in the field to the east, near the blue roofed building, which is the Government Post Graduate College No.1 Another view here
Source: The Atlantic
===============================================================
UPDATE2: The Atlantic’s story was wrong, here is the (likely) correct location:
Lat/lon 34.187663° 73.242617° See it on Google Maps
Here it is with the PMA Kakul Military academy mentioned in news reports h/t to Ryan Maue:
Wikipedia has already made an update about the PMA Kakul Military academy:
In May 2011, the US military conducted a raid and killed Osama bin Laden in a compound less than 1 km from Burn Hall Army Academy in Abbottabad. Burn Hall is a junior academy that feeds the Pakistan Military Academy. Bin Laden’s extended refuge near the academy is cited as evidence of the Pakistani government’s collusion with al Qaeda.
That places the compound back near the city center where we originally placed it from reports by The Atlantic. The compound originally identified din’t quite match the news reports.(see image below).
The imagery of the compound above described as “very high walled” matches the image of the white building and the tall white walls around it. I also just saw some helmet cam video of the scene in flames, and the white walls were visible.
The Google added red pointer location for OBL’s compound Abottabad in their database in the images above was originally near the city center, See below for the original placment Google had. But the pointer lat/lon has been updated within the last hour to the new location near PMA Kakul shown above. I think the locations above are correct, as they match news accounts much better.
@cwj
Haha, Mr. Gore would have a hissy fit!
Phil. says:
May 2, 2011 at 11:28 am
Cassandra King says:
May 2, 2011 at 9:09 am
I am sorry if this is repeating another posters concerns but the time line of events is a little worrying.
DNA tests take 5 to 7 days with a good source of physical material taken by a qualified person in clean conditions yet we have been informed that DNA tests confirm that the body supposedly taken yesterday proves with 99.9% certainty that it is the body of Bin Laden.
It certainly doesn’t take that long, I’ve routinely done them using the FBI procedure in two days without any hurry. I would expect an expedited test would be done in less than 12 hours.
Thanks for the info Phil, I am trying to work out a time line from the bullets in the head to the shipping back to Bagram hospital, the only place in the region secure enough and with the facilities to process to the DNA sample being taken to it being tested and shown to be positive to the corpse being loaded onto a suitable navy aircraft to be shipped out to the aircraft carrier. Of course that is if it happened in that sequence, it could have gone down a different way with the seals setting out from Bagram and then going straight for the sea post op.
From the bullet in the head it would be, lets say for the sake of argument 8hrs from the kill shot to the corpse being presented on a slab for the tests and two hours on the slab then 12hrs for the DNA analysis, although I have never heard of such speed with a DNA test, then an 8hr transit to disposal location and the religious rites. Thats at least 20 + hrs post kill, but when did the MSM get fed the line that the DNA tests were 99.9% positive? As far as I can see, the time line between kill shot and statement and certification of death in front of the MSM by the POTUS do not seem to match.
All I would like is a look at the pictures of the action and the corpse and the time lines and the routes in and out of the area. BTW FWIW IMHO just who were those outside the whitehouse with Obama posters chanting four more years?
Cassandra King
Could the DNA tests have been done on a ship? Carriers apparently have quite sophisticated hospital facilities and would be secure. That would cut a lot of transport time from the time line.
And I really would like to know just what information of any value would come from an autopsy. I think a photo of a really big hole in the head is about all the evidence needed.
Troll –
While I know exactly where you are trying to come from, you still miss the mark. Yes, we are subject to the whims of misguided bureaucrats since we are a nation of humans, and therefore flawed. Are we always right? Not hardly. I would, however, like to see a list of the places that face the same melting pot-problems that we face and do so well, ie, without any real atrocities. You speak in very general terms of things we have done without revealing what has happened as a result of those things. We root out the wrongdoers where ever we can – ask Ollie North how gallivanting in Central America went for him. If you are going to put list together to compare and contrast how we respond to right’s violations, I invite your efforts in that debate. We invade but rebuild, spend a fortune on smart weapons to minimalize civilian casualties, put nuclear carriers worth a fortune in harms way by helping victims of natural disasters (and a carrier close to shore back-feeding power to a port makes it very vulnerable), all the while showing women, immigrants and even Muslims working together in our integrated Armed Forces (and all volunteer, btw)… Where else in the world do you see that? Like it or not, we are still a beacon for the rest of the world that yearns for individual freedoms, despite efforts like yours to besmirch us. Sure, I will freely admit we don’t always get it right, but we try harder than most other countries.
Make sure you point out where we execute thousands or enslave them, or even where we maim or disfigure those we don’t agree with. Be sure to include all the oil we stole from Iraq since that war was just for oil (like Libya is not /sarc). I am sure you will jump to civilian casualties and other side effects of war, mostly because that’s all you have. The fact remains immigration is still going strong here because at least here you can get a fair shake if you keep your nose clean.
Overall, I’ll take all of our problems over the rest of the worlds “perfections” any day.
Egad! I am astonished to encounter gullible conspiracy-mongers on WUWT—even Smokey? AFAIK the various video and audio tapes that OBL released over the past decade all passed CIA muster for authenticity, so there is little question he was still alive.
The idea that this raid was staged for Obambi’s poll numbers is fanciful at best.
What I find interesting is how OBL managed to get dialysis without being discovered. He would have had to have a unit and doctor and/or technician on staff in the compound. It does seem likely that the Islamist elements in the ISI were aware of his presence, and turned a blind eye. But I think that’s as far as we need to go toward conspiracies.
The rational folk among us will want to pay attention to what DSW, Dave Springer, and Hotrod have to say, and ignore the craziness from the likes of ‘ecliptic’.
/Mr Lynn
Thanks Larry (Hotrod- 1.26pm),
I figured there might be other technology on the cards to shorten a simple DNA match. It was stated that the match was to DNA from a sister who had died previously so they would have been able to identify a set of genetic markers to use. A sibling would have 1/4 of the alleles in common, so they probably looked at a panel of 50 or so. Since DARPA seems to have been developing rapid ID for just such a purpose, I can see that they could have the result before dumping the body. Micro-fluidics (“PCR machines on a chip) were being discussed a good 10 years ago so a working model for a specific target is an option.
Cassandra,
There would have been no need for any kind of autopsy – simple identification is enough and a blood sample is plenty for a DNA analysis. Skepticism is good – I am glad we are asking questions, but in this case I think we can put a bit of trust in the official pronouncements – Obama is not going to come out in a special press conference if they didn’t had very very solid evidence.
Rob
johanna says (May 2, 2011 at 12:39 pm): “Would it be OK if a foreign government landed a helicopter on US soil and took out a foreign war criminal or terrorist, plus a few other people, in the name of ‘justice’?”
Well, if the US government were sheltering a terrorist who had killed many Americans as well as foreigners, and had recruited and inspired additional domestic terrorists, I’d guide the choppers in myself, with flares, radio beacon, and a big neon sign reading HERE HE IS! Does that answer your question?
PS And as a bonus I’d throw in [trimmed Robt]
@DSW:
Mad speculation is making conclusions without presenting a sufficient evidence.
Governments routinely get away with much taller orders than lying about a single covert CIA operation. Would the today’s OBL story stand in the court of law? Of course not. You need more evidence to prove a theft of a lighter from a gas station stand than we were given so far. Hopefully they will come up with more.
Hundreds of millions of people in totalitarian countries believed (and still believe in some places) in totally falsified versions of the whole human history, leave alone individual incidents. Billions of people passionately believe in ancient fairy tales that have nothing in common with the objective reality. Hundreds of billions of dollars are being taken from taxpayers under the pretext of theories based on manipulated data and unfounded conclusions. And you are telling me that Obama would blush lying about Osama?
I repeat, it is very possible that they got Osama today. Maybe. But there are other possibilities, and there is a lot of unanswered questions. Calling people “mad speculators” just because they don’t yelp “How high?” every time the so called “authority” tells you to jump is… ungentlemanly, to put it very mildly.
Osama’s DVDs…
“U.S. forces searched the compound and flew away with documents, hard drives and DVDs that could provide valuable intelligence about al-Qaida, a U.S. official said. The entire operation took about 40 minutes, officials said.”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13512344&page=3
Gotta be a couple US movies in the bunch for sure ! Hating us but not the perks….
Now that the fog of war is beginning to lift, and more information is emerging [like OBL’s wife identifying him], I’ll rein in my natural inclination to question the government’s version of events.
In fact, I’ll go farther than that, and say, “Well done, Mr. President.” Now, get those gas prices back down.
Sorry, but your first guess at 34°10’9.58″N, 73°14’32.93″E is right. Take GE and compare the road net and stream against the CIA photo and they match.
First of all Alex, we are not in a court of law. Those exist for citizens, not foreign enemies, so whether or not it would stand up in court in moot at best. The government has no obligation to tell us anything about this operation, so be glad we know any of it. Speaking of knowing, that is the one thing to which only a handful of people actually are privy, so any speculation on the part of anyone (ie, you and me) that isn’t in that exclusive club pretty much qualifies as “mad speculation”; and yes, as much as I do not like the man, Obama would be a world-caliber fool for lying about this. Your bit about my “ungentlemanlyness”, while amusing, needs more of a point. It assumes the given that I (or you for that matter) jump when told to by authority. Since you don’t know me, I can see where you hoped this ad hominem would strike home; however, I stand by the “mad speculation” observation since proof in this discussion will always be MIA and Obama is making a statement that can be easily disproven. Perhaps you don’t know people in the Intel community, but if the POTUS were straight up lying about it, it would get out. Your assertion also assumes that Navy SEALs are willing to besmirch their honor by lying about getting the number one most wanted man in the world. Now, speaking possibilities, there is a chance that is true – by the probability is tiny. Occum’s Razor aside, I will have to assume that you are not a poker player – but if a general sweep of the phrase “mad speculation” cuts you so deeply, I would suggest holding your cards closer to your vest and don’t let people know you can be so easily offended.
Mr Lynn 2:43pm
Ignore anyone who has an open mind enough to look at the volumes of evidence @ur momisugly my 1:42pm post and trust-but-don’t-verify any information given by the fawning lapdog media whores? That reminds me of the AGW pimps who say “the science is settled” as they prepare to make a killing off carbon credits. Yeah – that’s the ticket! Trust the liars who say that the ocean is going up 20 feet next year and the sky will completely fall on top of our heads… ‘cuz they tell the TRUTH all of a sudden when the subject changes to terrorism! Yeah! Trust the paid government shills and don’t listen to any “thought criminals” who challenge the official narrative!
You’re a Jenius!
As Far As You Know … apparently goes a couple of millimeters or so before it peters out like your goofy theory that some cavemen defeated the multi-trillion dollar US Military.
Notice that I’m not advocating we all stop listening to YOUR crazy theories…
MR LYNN says don’t click any of these links ‘cuz everything you need to know is on FOXSNBCNN:
Ex-ISI Chief Hamid Gul: CIA “Choreographing” Osama Assassination Hoax
http://www.infowars.com/ex-isi-chief-hamid-gul-cia-choreographing-osama-assassination-hoax/
Inside Sources: Bin Laden’s Corpse Has Been On Ice For Nearly a Decade
http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/
Evidence that Obama is a CIA Creation ( 3.9MB .pdf ):
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/wayne-madsen-obama-all-in-the-company.pdf
I am not normally one for doing less than good to others but in this particular case I would have made an exception. [snip just a bit too graphic]
Cheers
kbray in California says:
May 2, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Osama’s DVDs…
“U.S. forces searched the compound and flew away with documents, hard drives and DVDs that could provide valuable intelligence about al-Qaida, a U.S. official said. The entire operation took about 40 minutes, officials said.”
And maybe we will learn who is in control of Pakistan. Cool!
“”””” pwl says:
May 2, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Hate to say it but without a trial it’s not justice, it’s revenge. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Caution is advised as that applies to all who live by the sword. “””””
I’m just taking a wild guess here; but I’m opining that you were probably born sometime after WW-II, so you really don’t have the foggiest idea just what war is about. If I’m wrong on that, then I apologise.
But one does not hold “trials” before pulling the trigger during a war. People who do that generally end up on the list of casualties of war, and are not around to ocnduct “trials”.
Just what crime, would you personally charge Osama bin Laden with, and in what country, would his alleged behavior be a chargeable crime ? Well that you think you can prove that is.
This is usually explained by the words:- “War is Hell !”
That’s to distinguish it from the video games, that many of today’s generations think war is.
cwj says:
May 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Cassandra King
Could the DNA tests have been done on a ship? Carriers apparently have quite sophisticated hospital facilities and would be secure. That would cut a lot of transport time from the time line.
Absolutely, the apparatus necessary is approximately the size of a microwave oven. Since they knew that this would be needed they would set up for the PCR and a sequencer on the Vincennes with a lab tech., the PCR would take a couple of hours only. Typically the FBI test uses 13 alleles.
Alexander Feht wrote: “Hundreds of billions of dollars are being taken from taxpayers under the pretext of theories based on manipulated data and unfounded conclusions.”
This is Queen Bee Theory, the idea that misinformation must be due to lies at the highest level of power, which must be due to everyone else being fooled except some puppet master demigod who magically controls all that is below him. Actually he’s probably a gal named Hillary.
Systems evolve and glitches take time to unknot themselves. Science became too large a collection of utterly isolated disciplines to continue to allow self-correction in all disciplines, Hundreds of billions of dollars are being taken from taxpayers under the pretext of theories based on manipulated data and unfounded conclusions.
America is not a hive culture, but a still youthful naughty little boy shooting at nests with a rapid fire CO2 cartride pellet gun.
cwj says:
May 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Cassandra King
Could the DNA tests have been done on a ship? Carriers apparently have quite sophisticated hospital facilities and would be secure. That would cut a lot of transport time from the time line.
Absolutely, the apparatus necessary is approximately the size of a microwave oven. Since they knew that this would be needed they would set up for the PCR and a sequencer on the Vinson with a lab tech., the PCR would take a couple of hours only. Typically the FBI test uses 13 alleles.
“”””” Smokey says:
May 2, 2011 at 12:26 pm
My mind is open on this news story. So can someone answer a few questions for me? Thanks: “””””
Smokey, it appears that you are not aware of the burial customs of moslems; which apparently require “burial” within 24 hours of death, and apparnetly all in one piece; which evidently is the reason for one of the favorite behaviors that moslems have of beheading their enemies after killing them; or preferrably in the course of killing them. You might have noticed that the people of Baghdad quickly beheaded even the statues of Saddam Hussein following his capture; as an expression of their sentiments towards him.
Apparently one cannot enjoy the fruits of one’s martydom, if the body is dismembered so it can’t be buried in one piece. I suspect cremation is a no-no.
i’m somewhat civilized to I would resist the temptation to hack him into little pieces (as they treated Daniel Pearl), and then distribute th pieces widely around in remote desert areas for the jackals, and Griffon vultures to feast on. But like I said, I am somewhat too civiized to actually do that.
Dumping the carcass in the ocean was certainly too good for him; but the sanest thing to do.
Bringing him to “trial” is for people who simply don’t deserve to survive their own stupidity. In the USA (specially California) we have do-gooder judges and Governors commuting the sentences of murderers, who were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. No such assurance can be given to the victims of those people. Poor police work should never be a cause for improperly convicting someone who is actually innocent of the crime charged.
[911 truther topic is a policy violation]
FYI to those saying DNA fingerprinting takes days.
Not for the past several years. Portable labs-on-a-chip can do it in a few hours nowadays. The mission would have been planned far in advance and the equipment to do it put aboard the ship which received the remains from the helicopter.
DSW says:
May 2, 2011 at 4:33 pm
First of all Alex, we are not in a court of law.
No, we are not. I used the evidence in a court of law as an analogy, while you dishonestly twisted it into the unrelated comparison of citizens and foreign enemies.
The government has no obligation to tell us anything about this operation, so be glad we know any of it.
Wrong. They brag about it, therefore they must substantiate their bragging. My capacity of being glad is very meager in this particular case.
so any speculation on the part of anyone (ie, you and me) that isn’t in that exclusive club pretty much qualifies as “mad speculation”;
No, it simply doesn’t follow. Speculations can be very reasonable.
Obama would be a world-caliber fool for lying about this.
What if he is a world-caliber fool? Most of the things he’s done so far would support such an observation. But you are not being very observant, are you?
Your bit about my “ungentlemanlyness”… [etc. ad nauseam]
Yawn.
@NikFromNYC
Excuse me, but I don’t follow your logic — either because there is no logic in your statements, or because you are incapable of formulating your thoughts clearly.
Wow Alex, didn’t realize you were just trolling, sorry I wasted my time – but thanks for letting everyone see…