The more recent revelation is that Dr. Mann claims that:
This has been known for a year and a half that all I did was forward Phil’s e-mail to Eugene.
But….apparently he did not intend Dr. Wahl to act on it as if it was an instruction:
I felt Eugene Wahl had to be aware of this e-mail … it could be used against him. I didn’t delete any e-mails and nor did I tell Wahl to delete any e-mails.
I’m struggling with this. At the time, Mann wrote to Jones “I’ll contact Gene about this ASAP.” How could a private mail from Jones to Mann be used against Wahl? Jones asks Mann to ask Wahl? and this could be used…. against Wahl? huh? Wahl hasn’t done anything wrong. Yet. The claims being made are ridiculous and clearly conflict with Wahl’s testimony.
I think I finally get it. These scientists just have too good a sense of humor and we’ve been missing the joke, just like the public misunderstood the sophisticated humor of the Nixon Administration as demonstrated by this video clip.
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Give the Mann a break. He is trying to save face and gets exoneration on Climate Progress where he is not under oath.
Good gried! Mann’s defence is right up there with
Yes, now that I see, this is a laugh a minute!! What a bunch of cards they are!!
This bothers me. Mann is a chatty kathy in shoveling large quantities of messages, claims, posts and stories to Climate Progress. He was verbose on Real Climate Nov over a year ago. But why interference with the law for FOIA, turning over stuff in Virginia and cooperation with investigation? I understand criminal law. He is extremely uncooperative with investigation for detective work that so far is no where near criminal. Does his behavior hint toward some criminal intent?
“I’m struggling with this.”
And I’m struggling with why anyone cares about this. Is there something about the contents of these emails that’s relevent to climate science that is worth discussing here? I’d like to see a post about that — about the science.
Noelle,
I’m gonna quote Ross from the linked CA thread. He sums it up nicely.
It’s the “HMS TeamTanic” and they fully plan to go down with the ship till it settles on the bottom of the frozen Pacific.
It is their best chance of avoiding prosecution and probably a presidential pardon for towing the line all the way to the end.
As Bill Clinton advised “Deny deny deny”.
I know you think you understand what you heard me say but you don’t realize that what I said is not what I really meant.
I love the early SNL cast – but that is no Nixon. Akroyd sounds like Jimmie Stewart!
OIC! Like Mann does not sound like himself, but Larry the Liar! 😉
Mann seems to have an estranged relationship with logic. Fortunately for him, he chose to be a climate scientist.
Investigate the links between the CRU, Brandon Gough (Chancellor of the University of East Anglia) and Common Purpose.
http://www.stopcp.com/cpclimategate.php
“Even though I made no mention in my forward that such actions could mean trouble, I did a blind forward without any dialog and that was meant to inform the recipient of trouble.”
Did you ever see someone who should have just shut up because every time they tried to justify their actions they just dug the hole bigger and bigger? If you haven’t, you have now.
Thanks CTM for locating the SNL clip. The original cast and writers were amazingly gifted. When Al Franken joined, not so much. Hmmm – whatever happened to him?
It reminds me how similar Montford’s “Hockey Stick Illusion” was to “All the President’s Men”. Both great reads, filled with intrigue, drama, high stakes, and monumental egos.
The dog ate my original excuse. I didn’t do it. I couldn’t help it. The real issue here is the hole in the greenhouse.
Perfect title for this article Charles!
The ‘protect the recipient’ excuse here truly is laughable. I suppose it is intended to show what a ‘nice’ guy Mann is as well.
I’m still waiting for the ‘national security’ angle, which seems to be able to cover up anything these days.
david elder says:
March 10, 2011 at 1:08 pm
“The dog ate my original excuse. I didn’t do it. I couldn’t help it. The real issue here is the hole in the greenhouse.”
LOL. Good one David. Of course, the “hole in the greenhouse.” Since Irritable Climate Syndrome causes EVERYTHING, it is obvious that the planetary fever must have caused Mann to send this email. Maybe he was delirious with malaria. Or he wasn’t thinking clearly because of the water rising in his office or the hideous howls of dying polar bears. The possibilities are endless.
It depends on what you mean by “forward.”
What have we learned:
Mann is a liar, or,
there is a small percent chance that Mann is telling the truth, and that is enough not to have him convicted in court for conspiracy to obstruct freedom of information etc.
–
Well, the science community knows how to deal with statistics like theese, you are not inside the 95% intervall of probability Mr Mann, Occhams racor will make short of your story, you are a fraud, bye bye.
I love this.
On one end, you’ve got Jones – clearly, undeniably, condemned out of his own mouth – being a bad boy.
On the other you have Gene Wahl – smartly telling what appears to be the truth – admitting that he received a request from Jones, forwarded with no annotation from Mann, and that he acted upon the request.
And in the middle we have Mann and his Penn State inquisitors, telling tales that it seems to me any rational person would regard as half-truths.
To me, forwarding without comment a message requesting someone delete a batch of email sounds just like the kind of ‘indirect’ participation in deleting email that the PSU inquisitors so fulsomely absolved Mann of.
To me, it seems quite unlikely that an individual who regards himself as educated would forward an email without comment – without any sort of annotation such as “Phil’s going to cause himself legal problems, don’t jump in the water too” or “This is from Phil but I’m not doing what he asks” or even just “Be careful with this one” – when the claimed intent of the forwarder was to warn the recipient that the message could be damaging to him.
Dr Mann – you’re in a hole. Stop digging.
These guys will never admit wrong doing even on their death bed.
To them scientific glory is more important than life itself.
The word duplicitous comes to mind or how about disingenuous?
Then you must just trust everyone at face value like a child. I’ll bet if I told you that gravity was a result of an ether that the universe is made of, you wouldn’t ask me for any data or mathematical methods to explain myself. The scientific method requires openness for replication. This episode with forwarding and deleting e-mails to cover the tracks of report rules being flaunted demonstrates that these guys behaved completely contrary to that method in this regard… and you think no one should care about this?
I’d hate to live in your fantasy world, it’s probably closer to a theocracy than you might realize.
Noelle says:
March 10, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Is there something about the contents of these emails that’s relevent to climate science that is worth discussing here?
========================================
Only in the sense that if any of them believed in their science…
…if any of them thought their science was as “robust” as they claim
They would have put their science out there for everyone to see…
… and No one would be having this conversation
I think it’s time to address the “who cares anyway, what’s the big deal ” argument that I can see developing. I think someone needs to keep pointing out why these individuals were collaborating on this section of the IPCC report (something to do with addressing Mr McIntyre’s comments?) and what were the circumstances that made them want to cover thier tracks.
or duplicigenuous?
Noelle -see below – brings up a good point here, I think we all here – apart from the occasional warmist ranter – care about the science.
We care about the science, but we do not care for the ‘climate science’ of manipulated data, GIGO models and unsubstantiated scare stories. So when a high priest of the AGW cult is caught being dishonest and disingenuous, we want to know why and we want to know why he has not been expelled/struck off.
I suspect very many more scientists, such as myself, read WUWT regularly, than Real Climate. This is a fact which must infuriate the manipulators of climate data, the destroyers of raw data, the ignorers of UHI, the AGW fantasy writers and the politicians’ poodles.
Mann epitomises the concept of Bad Science and is guilty of practices which would only be tolerated in the bizarre world of ‘climate science’, where political whims and the economics of the grants trough prevail.
Noelle says:
March 10, 2011 at 12:56 pm
“I’m struggling with this.”
And I’m struggling with why anyone cares about this. Is there something about the contents of these emails that’s relevent to climate science that is worth discussing here? I’d like to see a post about that — about the science.