To Serve Mann

Pinocckey Stick

Breaking: Mann and Wahl have responded. See updates below.

3/9 12:45 PM Pacific Time. This story is now updated to be consistent with Mann and Wahl’s response:

By Steven Mosher

and charles the moderator

Sources confirm that a federal inspector has questioned Eugene Wahl and Wahl has confirmed that Mann asked [forwarded] him [a request] to delete emails. Wahl has also informed the inspector that he did delete emails as the result of this request.

There are times during the course of Climategate when you feel like you are in a twilight zone episode, especially the kind where the ambiguous meaning of terms plays a critical role, like “To Serve Man”.

That episode is apt because of the central role trust plays and because of the role puzzle solvers play  in uncovering that the do-gooder aliens cannot be trusted. “Serving”, of course, has now taken on new meanings, as in “you got served” or pwned. With the release of the news that Mann successfully [forwarded instructions] instructed [to] Wahl to delete emails,  it’s clear that Mann got served or pwned by Wahl; but more importantly, he got served or assisted by Dr. Pell, Dr. Scaroni, Dr Brune, and Dr. Foley. Who are they? They are the Penn State team who served Dr. Mann by purporting to exonerate him in the Penn State inquiry, despite Mann’s own non-responsive response to a key question being on its face evasive, and begging followup questions. Regardless, Mann’s non-answer did not even purport to support their conclusion about his actions. In short, they covered for him.

The puzzle begins back in 2006. Keith Briffa the author of chapter 6 in the 4th Assessment Report of the IPCC (AR4) is struggling under the directive of review editor Johnathan Overpeck, who has encouraged him to come up with something “more compelling than the Hockey Stick”, that iconic symbol of Global warming created by Michael Mann in the third assessment report.

Briffa is struggling with the comments and suggestions of a particular reviewer who we now know was Steve McIntyre, the citizen scientist who has been dogging Mann for several years. In what appears to be violation of IPCC rules Briffa writes to Eugene Wahl asking for assistance in answering McIntyre’s comments. More important than this communication being apparently at odds with IPCC directives, is that Briffa is asking Wahl to comment on McIntyre’s work, a process that is clearly supposed to take place in peer reviewed literature. Wahl and McIntyre had both been critical of each other’s work and such disputes are most fairly handled by independent third parties and not by the disputants themselves.

In mid 2006 the following exchange occurs between Briffa and Eugene Wahl:

From: Keith Briffa [mailto:k.briffa@xxxxxxxxx.xxx]

Sent: Tue 7/18/2006 10:20 AM

To: Wahl, Eugene R

Subject: confidential

Gene

I am taking the liberty (confidentially) to send you a copy of the reviewers[McIntyre’s]  comments (please keep these to yourself) of the last IPCC draft chapter. I am concerned that I am not as objective as perhaps I should be and would appreciate your take on the comments from number 6-737 onwards , that relate to your reassessment of the Mann et al work. I have to consider whether the current text is fair or whether I should change things in the light of the sceptic comments. In practise this brief version has evolved and there is little scope for additional text , but I must put on record responses to these comments – any confidential help , opinions are appreciated . I have only days now to complete this revision and response

Wahl responds

Thoughts and perspective concerning the reviewer’s comments per se. These are coded in blue and are in the “Notes” column between pages 103 and 122 inclusive. It got to the point that I could not be exhaustive, given the very lengthy set of review thoughts, so I am also attaching a review article Caspar [Ammann]  and I plan to submit to Climatic Change in the next few days….Please note that this Ammann-Wahl text is sent strictly confidentially — it should not be cited or mentioned in any form, and MUST not be transmitted without permission. However, I am more than happy to send it for your use, because it succinctly summarizes what we have found on all the issues that have come up re: MBH. As you can see, we agree at some level with some of the criticisms raised by MM [McIntyre]  and others, but we do not find that they invalidate MBH in any substantial way.

Briffa responds

Gene

here is where I am up to now with my responses (still a load to do) you can see that I have “borrowed (stolen)” from 2 of your responses in a significant degree – please assure me that this OK (and will not later be obvious) hopefully.You will get the whole text(confidentially again ) soon. You could also see that I hope to be fair to Mike[Mann] – but he can be a little unbalanced in his remarks sometime – and I have had to disagree with his interpretations of some issues also. Please do not pass these on to anyone at all.

Keith

Wahl responds, jumping into the “divergence” problem which has come to be known as the “hide the decline” problem.

Hi Keith:

Here is the text with my comments. I will go over the “stolen” parts (highlighted in blue outline) for a final time tomorrow morning, but I wanted to get this to you ASAP. The main new point I have to make is added in bold/blue font on pp. 101-103. I question the way the response to the comment there is currently worded, as it seems to imply that the divergence issue really does invalidate any dendro-based reconstructions before about 1850–which I imagine is not what you would like to say. I give a series of arguments against this as a general conclusion. Maybe I got over-bold in doing so, as in my point (1) I’m examining issues that are at the very core of your expertise! Excuse me that one, but I decided to jump in anyway. Let me know if I got it wrong in any way!

Briffa responds

First Gene – let me say that I never intended that you should spend so much time on this – though I really appreciate your take on these points. The one you highlight here – correctly warns me that in succumbing to the temptation to be lazy in the sense of the brief answer that I have provided – I do give an implied endorsement of the sense of the whole comment. This is not, of course what I intended. I simply meant to agree that some reference to the “divergence” issue was necessitated . I will revise the reply to say briefly that I do not agree with the interpretation of the reviewer. I am attaching what I have done (see blue highlighting) to the section in response to comments (including the addition of the needed extra section on the “tree-ring issues” called for by several people). I have had no feedback yet on this as it has not been generally circulated , but thought you might like to see it. PLEASE REMEMBER that this is “for your eyes only ” . Please do NOT feel that I am asking /expecting you to go through this in any detail – but given the trouble you have taken,I thought it reasonable to give you a private look. Cheers

Keith

So, Briffa writes confidentially to Wahl for help and Wahl assists him by passing a copy of a paper that has yet to be published. The aim is to answer concerns that McIntyre as reviewer has raised. Wahl and Amman’s words are incorporated in the response to McIntyre with the hope that no one will ever notice.

Two years later, someone does notice.  It’s May 24th 2008, Steve McIntyre, climate science puzzle solver, is reading the reviewer comments to chapter 6 of AR4 written in 2006.  In the course of reviewing Briffa’s replies to him, McIntyre notes something peculiar. Briffa’s replies, written in 2006, seemed to plagiarize an unpublished paper by Casper Amman and Eugene Wahl published in 2007. That is, in 2006 Briffa was repeating the argument of a paper that was not published until 2007. How could Briffa plagiarize an article that hadn’t been published? Why would he repeat the arguments almost word for word? Who was feeding Briffa his arguments? How was Briffa doing this if all communication with the authors had to be part of the official record?

At the time, in May of 2008, McIntyre assumed that Briffa was getting information from Casper Ammann since Ammann was listed as a contributing author to chapter 6. It did not occur to McIntyre that Wahl was the source of the text. Thanks to the individual who liberated the Climategate emails, we now know that Wahl was the source of that text. The Climategate emails, quoted above, show Briffa and Wahl exchanging emails about the way McIntyre’s arguments should be handled. Confidentially, outside the process of the IPCC which is designed to capture reviewer objections and authors’ responses to those objections. Wahl is brought in by Briffa to defend his own work. And defend it with literature that has not been published yet.

At the same time in 2008, across the ocean, David Holland had been reading McIntyre’s work and he had issued an FOIA request to the Climatic Research Unit–CRU. That FOIA request covered all correspondence coming in and out of CRU relative to chapter 6 of AR4.  The hunt for the source that was feeding Briffa was on, with Holland leading the charge. At CRU, FOIA officer Palmer instructs the team that they must do everything “by the book” because Holland will most certainly appeal a rejection letter.

In that context, Jones writes the famous email to Mann. Jones requests that Mann delete his emails and he requests that Mann contact Wahl and have Wahl delete his emails.  Is Jones covering his bases in case of an appeal? Is he covering his bases against an FOIA request that might be served on Mann and Wahl in the US? In any case, he appears to be conspiring with others to deny Holland his FOIA rights.

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?  Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis  Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t  have his new email address.We will be getting Caspar to do likewise. I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature  paper

Mann responds that he will contact Wahl ASAP, which he does.

Hi Phil,

laughable that CA would claim to have discovered the problem. They would  have run off to the Wall Street Journal for an exclusive were that to  have been true. I’ll contact Gene about this ASAP. His new email is: generwahl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx

talk to you later,

mike

As Wahl told the investigators in 2011, Mann contacted [forwarded the email from Jones requesting deletion to] him and Wahl deleted his mails.

In 2010, in an effort to clear Mann of any wrong doing, a committee of inquiry was set up at Penn State. We now know that committee failed miserably. They failed for many reasons, but the Wahl admission is the starkest example.

Here is one allegation the committee investigated:

Allegation 2: Did you engage in, or participate in, directly or indirectly, any actions with  the intent  to delete, conceal or otherwise destroy emails, information and/or data, related  to AR4, as suggested by Phil Jones?

Finding 2. After careful consideration of all the evidence and relevant materials, the  inquiry committee finding is that there exists no credible evidence that Dr. Mann had  ever engaged in, or participated in, directly or indirectly, any actions with intent to delete,  conceal or otherwise destroy emails, information and/or data related to AR4, as suggested  by Dr. Phil Jones.  Dr. Mann has stated that he did not delete emails in response to Dr.  Jones’ request. Further, Dr. Mann produced upon request a full archive of his emails in  and around the time of the preparation of AR4. The archive contained e-mails related to  AR4.

The committee found this because they apparently failed to understand Mann’s reply. As they reported:

He [Mann] explained that he never deleted emails at the behest of any other scientist, specifically including Dr. Phil Jones, and that he never withheld data with the intention of obstructing science; …

What can we make of this? Mann was apparently asked the question: “Did you engage in or participate in, directly or indirectly, any actions with the intent to delete emails.”

And it seems clear he only answered half of the question, leaving the unanswered second part dangling: did you contact anyone or otherwise ‘indirectly’ participate in deleting records? This either did not strike, or did not interest, the Penn State ‘investigators’. This despite that Mann, it appears, answered “carefully” and incompletely. He only answered that he hadn’t deleted emails. He never directly denies partaking, indirectly, in the deletion of Wahl’s emails. He apparently withheld the information that he had asked [forwarded the request to] Wahl to delete emails.

Is this a lie? Not directly. It’s more what Wikipedia would describe as “Careful Speaking”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

Careful speaking is distinct from the above in that the speaker wishes to avoid imparting certain information or admitting certain facts and, additionally, does not want to ‘lie’ when doing so. Careful speaking involves using carefully-phrased statements to give a ‘half-answer’: one that does not actually ‘answer’ the question, but still provides an appropriate (and accurate) answer based on that question. As with ‘misleading’, below, ‘careful speaking’ is not outright lying.

So why did the inquiry, stocked with Mann’s fellow professors, fail to ask good follow up questions? We really do not know because we don’t have access to the transcript of their interview with Mann. Did he intend to deceive? Or did he just speak “carefully?” It would seem that the actual transcript of the questions and answers should be published. Perhaps Congress should serve the members of the inquiry with a subpoena. That would allow people to decide if Mann lied or if he just spoke carefully.

And there are a few more questions we need to ask. Mann claims that he never deleted the emails. But he asked [forwarded Jones’s request to] Wahl to delete the emails. This makes no sense. It makes no sense that Mann would participate in a cover up by passing along a message to another participant of that cover-up downstream and not delete emails himself. It defies any logical reconstruction of events. Why would Mann ask [forward a request to] Wahl to do something that he himself would not do? We also know from the inquiry that Mann delivered emails to the inquiry. From that evidence and his testimony they concluded that he deleted no emails. This does not compute. [S.M: See update below for a possible explanation ]

Jones requested of Mann: Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?

The inquiry stated: The archive contained e-mails related to AR4.    (Hmm…more “Careful Speaking”?)

Did the inquiry find any emails of Mann communicating with Briffa re AR4 or just some emails related to AR4?

Did Mann turn over all the emails he wrote/received or only those he didn’t delete?

Was the email from Phil Jones requesting deletion among the emails Mann delivered to the inquiry?

Did the IT staff serve Mann, by letting him know that what he initially attempted to delete were in fact retained on the University mail server?

Did Mann turn over emails to the inquiry that he had previously deleted, deleted and then recovered with the help of some sympathetic University IT staff?

These questions need to be asked.

Perhaps Congress should serve Mann a subpoena.

Perhaps, the IG, the NSF, or some other suitable independent third party can investigate this with people who know how to watch for the pea under the thimble, and not be mislead by “Careful Speaking”.

=================================================================

UPDATES:

Steve McIntyre at Climate Audit has the goods in this: Wahl Transcript Excerpt

Chris Horner at DailyCaller also has a review: Penn State whitewashed ClimateGate

In fact, Chris Horner and the Competitive Enterprise Institute were instrumental in efforts over a year to get this and other forthcoming FOIA info into the public domain. – Anthony

UPDATE 3/9 12PM Mann and Wahl have responded see here.

Excerpt:

Mann, reached on vacation in Hawaii, said the stories yesterday were “libelous” and false. “They’re spreading a lie about me,” he said of the Web sites. “This has been known for a year and a half that all I did was forward Phil’s e-mail to Eugene.” Asked why he sent the e-mail to his colleague, Mann said, “I felt Eugene Wahl had to be aware of this e-mail … it could be used against him. I didn’t delete any e-mails and nor did I tell Wahl to delete any e-mails.” Why didn’t Mann call Wahl to discuss the odd request? “I was so busy. It’s much easier to e-mail somebody. No where did I approve of the instruction to destroy e-mails.”

Also at the above link, Wahl has now publicly stated that he did in fact delete emails in response to the request forwarded to him by Mann, rendering moot our need to wait for our original sources to confirm this story.

UPDATE: 3/9 6PM Chris Horner, whose story at the Daily Caller prompted a fair amount of outrage from AGW proponents, has responded to Wahl and Mann here

==========================================================

h/t SF Grand Master, Damon Knight, who was the author of the original short story this Twilight Zone episode was based upon.

Jones specifically asked Mann to delete emails with Briffa with regard to AR4. Mann claims that he deleted no mails. This is entirely possible, especially if there were no mails fitting the description. Canvasing the  Climategate mails, we can only find a few mails between Briffa and Mann related to Ar4. If  there were few or no mails to delete, then it does make sense that Mann could have passed the instruct to delete onto Wahl, without deleting mails himself.  S. Mosher.

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March 8, 2011 2:36 pm

Bill Illis says:
Just because certain people show a propensity to act unethically for a good cause in their emails or in investigations by universities or in proceedings of the IPCC or under statutory FOI requests, does not mean they are doing so in more important areas of their professional lives.
Please tell me you forgot the /sarc tag

Mike Bentley
March 8, 2011 2:37 pm

On Congressional Subpoenas and immunity from prosecution – I think in this case a plead to the 5th amendment (I refuse to answer on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me) before a congressional committee would be as devistating to the AGW as an admission of guilt. Don’t forget these—people—are using tax dollars to fund their work – and even congress has difficulties giving money to someone who can’t answer a question so pleads the fifth…
Nice work – maybe we can get back to doing science rather than watching a weary sideshow.
Mike

D. J. Hawkins
March 8, 2011 2:38 pm

Stephan says:
March 8, 2011 at 1:08 pm
… No one wants to see them go to jail. For gods sakes they are just scientists really…

You are a far nicer person than I am. Anyone else attempting to cause multi-billion to multi-trillion dollar dislocations in the American economy with malice aforethought would be labled a terrorist and should be rightly treated as such.
My five-year old son is prone to tantrums as children sometimes are. Favors or rewards are withheld because what was required to be done was left undone, or restraint was not evident after several warnings. Then the meltdown. Then the inquiry:
Me: Did I ask you to do so-and-so?
Him: Yes.
Me: Did you do so-and-so?
Him: No.
Me: Did I say you wouldn’t get to do this-and-such if you didn’t do so-and-so?
Him: Yes.
Me: So whose fault is it you can’t do this-and-such?
Him: (small voice) Mine.
Me: Yes. Remember, choices have consequenses.
Clearly a lesson not well-learned in certain climate circles. I can only hope that it soon will be.

RichieP
March 8, 2011 2:47 pm

Mark Bowlin says:
March 8, 2011 at 11:00 am
“Anton says:
March 8, 2011 at 9:06 am
“As with ‘misleading’, below, ‘careful speaking’ is not outright lying.”–Wikipedia (ugh!)
Only a Protestant could come up with this. ”
Or a senior British civil servant. In all this debate on the nature of lies, I think Sir Robert Armstrong is an archetypal figure and deserves a round of applause:
‘Armstrong, who retired as head of the Civil Service in late 1987, is credited with coining a memorable phrase (others credit Edmund Burke) in 1986 when cross-examined in the supreme court in New South Wales, Australia during the ‘Spycatcher’ trial. Armstrong was asked whether a letter contained a lie and replied that it was a “misleading impression”:
Lawyer: What is the difference between a misleading impression and a lie?
Armstrong: A lie is a straight untruth.
Lawyer: What is a misleading impression – a sort of bent untruth?
Armstrong: As one person said, it is perhaps being “economical with the truth” ‘

RichieP
March 8, 2011 2:49 pm

Sorry, forgot the link – that quote on Armstrong came from here:
http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Robert_Armstrong

geo
March 8, 2011 2:50 pm

This thread must include a hat tip to the late, great SF Grand Master, Damon Knight, who was the author of the original short story that TZ ep was based on. Knight loved that kind of word play. . .

Reply:
Done ~ ctm

March 8, 2011 3:00 pm

Steven Mosher says:
March 8, 2011 at 11:59 am
paul: Aquinas
“I answer that, It is one thing to withhold the truth, and another to utter a falsehood. The former is lawful sometimes, for a man is not bound to divulge all truth, but only such as the judge can and must require of him according to the order of justice; as, for […]
If Mann doesnt know whether Wahl had complied with Jones request to delete mails, then mann really cant answer the question of whether he participated in the

Oh my, oh my 🙂 This is delightful. I’ve been taking a course in philosophy over the net and would you now what got me stuck for six months — what is truth, and what is knowledge, and whether there is “untrue knowledge”.
And to my surprise (just one of them) there is such a thing as truth by consensus! (Post-modern coherence theory). Argh. It’s very far from our usual, pragmatic “truth is what works”.

March 8, 2011 3:01 pm

Perhaps we can update the post with this.
exonerating mann:
lets first begin by looking at the mail from Jones:
“Mike,
Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? ”
Then lets look at what the committee requested.
“On January 15, 2010, and on behalf of the inquiry committee, Dr. Foley conveyed via email an additional request of Dr. Mann, who was asked to produce all emails related to the fourth IPCC report (“AR4”), the same emails that Dr. Phil Jones had suggested that he delete. ”
do you see the problem? Jones asked Mann to delete mails to KEITH with regard to Ar4. What if Mann had no mails to Briffa WRT Ar4?, or perhaps he looked at them and found nothing troubling. no need to delete.
Mann forwards this onto Wahl. Mann doesnt know if Wahl had any mails to Keith or if Wahl actually followed Jones’ instructions.
So, Mann can say that he didnt delete any mails ( to Keith WRT AR4) and he just doesnt answer the question about Wahl because he doesnt know if wahl had any mails or if Wahl deleted them
Time to check the climategate files and see if Mann and Briffa exchanged mail about Ar4. thats a start.

Rich Lambert
March 8, 2011 3:07 pm

I would have thought that the university would have had backup tapes of all the emails.

March 8, 2011 3:10 pm

EFS_Junior says:
March 8, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Joe Friday here.
[…]
And you call yourselves skeptics. 🙁

Keep hitting us, lest we fall into groupthink slumber like climate scientists do. Zen masters use canes.

RayG
March 8, 2011 3:11 pm

bob says:
March 8, 2011 at 11:26 am “Mann is one of the brighter liars.”
Does this not make him an outlier? or, perhaps, an outed liar?

stupidboy
March 8, 2011 3:24 pm

It appears that enquiries into the emails have elicited answers which were ‘ecomonical with the truth’. Information was withheld in response to questions with the apparent attempt to decieve. In this way those questioned may convince themselves that they have not lied.
But there is no moral distinction between outright lying and being ‘economical with the truth’, in order to avoid saying something which is untrue, if the intention in either case is to deliberately deceive or mislead others.
AGW proponents seem to go to extraordinary lengths to avoid having to accept any evidence which would compromise the idea that if they believe something is true then it must be true.
The results of AGW related research are invariably based on a ‘formal fallacy’, whereby, although the premises of their theories might be true, the conclusions are not supported. For example:
Greenhouse gases cause climate change
Man produces greenhouse gases
Therefore man is changing the climate
Apologies for the over-simplification, but AGW scientists appear to arrive at formal fallacies because they seem to draw conclusions from empirical research using wishful thinking (I’m being generous with this term) rather than deduction.

March 8, 2011 3:29 pm

Excellent news. Well done, you two. The noose continues to tighten, albeit too slowly for some of us. That said, the longer this part of it goes on and the more obfuscations and economical untruths we get from the team, the greater the fall from grace.
Apologies if someone has said this already, and if not, apologies for raising it, but there is the possibility that Briffa didn’t send any dodgy emails to Mann (there seems to have been a certain amount of coolness between the two of them), so there would have been nothing for Mann to delete.
I hope I’m wrong, seeing him exposed for the charlatan he is would go some way to compensating me for the amount of time I have wasted on this idiot.

Al Gored
March 8, 2011 3:32 pm

Stephan says:
March 8, 2011 at 1:08 pm
“No one wants to see them go to jail. For gods sakes they are just scientists really… ”
Oh really. If they have done something criminal it doesn’t matter what cover they use. And calling some of these people ‘scientists’ is a joke in any case.
I would suggest that the only way to fix this larger problem is to put some of these advocates masquerading as ‘scientists’ in jail, complete with perp walks and the whole deal. Otherwise they will continue to be as corrupt as the Banksters that sleazed their way off the hook.
Also time for institutions like Penn State to return all the funding they have received under the false pretenses provided by the crook they covered for.

daniel
March 8, 2011 3:32 pm

We know that DoT’s InspectorGeneral did his work reasonably as to NOAA, identifies an issue with Wahl, but could not investigate further Wahl’s conduct due to Wahl only becoming a NOAA employee some time after the event (the FAR report drafting).
Now there in another IG, the one in charge National Science Foundation ; it was mentioned by Fox News at the time (early 2010) when Penn State published their ‘investigation’ report that NSF’ IG was about to review how this university implemented federal rules as to scientific conduct investigation ; I’m not sure whether anybody heard anything about this inspection.
Maybe, DoT’IG report may inspire NRF’s IG …

JDN
March 8, 2011 3:35 pm

They never get you for the crime but always for the cover-up.
Giving Mann immunity and convicting the professors that whitewashed the case is possibly the best outcome. There are plenty of venues where people will be asked to whitewash dishonest climate research. Sending the message not to do it will provide greater penetration into the conspiracy to defraud than getting this one Mann.
So, can the members of the Penn State investigation face fraud charges if they arranged to let Mann off the hook?

EFS_Junior
March 8, 2011 3:41 pm

EFS_Junior says:
March 8, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Joe Friday here.
.. snips self …
Reply: This is all we could reveal at this time. Head on over to CA for more. ~ ctm
Been there, done that, same with your Horner/CEI link;
“This has been confirmed to Senate offices. It will not be released to the public for some time because the investigation is ongoing.”
Hmm, now who called for ‘requires further investigation’ and is in the Senate, I wonder? Inhofe.
Well ctm, I’m most interested in the Chris Horner/CEI/Steve McIntyre/James Inhofe connection.
Since, I don’t inherently trust any of the above individuals/organisations to tell the actual truth, given their well known track records.
Did Inhofe’s office “leak” this “information” to McIntyre?
Or somesuch?
That would be my guess at this point in time, if Inhofe’s office releases similar information at a later date, then we’ll know this for sure.
I do think we need another investigation of this “leak” though.
Full email audit trail, if you know what I mean. 🙂

Ken Hall
March 8, 2011 3:41 pm

“Stephan says:
March 8, 2011 at 1:08 pm
… No one wants to see them go to jail. For gods sakes they are just scientists really…”

These “scientists” (so called) are wilfully giving misleading information in support of a bunch of evil human-hating psychopaths who are using their positions as leaders of the environmental movement to call for the eradication of up to 95% of all humanity. These fraudulent scientists are perverting science by ignoring the ‘scientific method’ to create false data supportive of the lie that we are currently suffering unprecedented warming. By claiming that current temperatures are the warmest for over 1000 years, they seek to give “scientific” justification for the global genocide of a scale which make Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like girl scouts at a nice picnic.
For that alone, they should be in prison. Add to this the starvation and heat/cold related deaths caused directly by environmental policies and these so-called “scientists” have a huge amount of blood on their hands.

Theo Goodwin
March 8, 2011 3:42 pm

Steven Mosher says:
March 8, 2011 at 9:14 am
I think KuhnKat was suggesting that your remarks about lying and your use of wickedpedia raise the question of whether you might be at risk of soiling yourself.

richard vereny
March 8, 2011 3:45 pm

Steven Mosher says:
March 8, 2011 at 11:08 am
“…Summary: dont send in university professors to lead an investigation”
Couldn’t agree more since if the summary of Mann’s answer is accurate it should have been blatantly obvious to the panel that Mann had not answered the question that they put to him, whether because Mann did not fully appreciate the question (it was after all a very lengthy question) or because he deliberately did not wish to address the full question.
It really would be interesting to know what questions were asked. Obvious questions would include:-
Is it normal to receive a request from a colleague to delete an e-mail or series of e-mails? If so, in what circumstances would this be considered normal?
Is it normal to receive a request from a colleague requesting you to contact a colleague with a request that they should delete an e-mail or series of e-mails? If so, in what circumstances would this be considered normal?
If such a request is not normal practice, did you consider reporting this request to anyone and if not why not?
On receipt of the e-mail from Jones, what did you think of his request? Do you know why Jones requested that these e-mails be deleted? What were in these e-mails?
Did you give or show a copy of Jone’s email to anyone else? If so who and why was this done? In particular, did you request any other person to act upon either and/or both of the requests made by Jones?
Did you personally, or did you procure someone, to delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
Following receipt of Jone’s email, did you contact Gene, and if so when and why?
Following receipt of Jone’s email, did you contact Gene (whether by phone or email or otherwise) asking him to delete any emails that he may have had with Keith re AR4 and/or in any way whatsoever communicating the request made by Jones or the gist of the request made by Jones?
Following receipt of the Jone’s email, if you did not delete any of the emails that you had with Keith re AR4, why did you decide not to act on Jone’s request.
Following the receipt of the Jone’s email, if you did not contact Gene why did you decide not to contact Gene.
Upon receipt of Jone’s email, did you, at any time thereafter, have any communications (whether oral or written) with any person regarding the deletion of any emails sent to and/or exchanged with Keith re AR4 irrespective as to the author of the email(s)? If so, with whom and what was the gist of the conversation or communication.
Do you know from any conversation or other communication that you may have had at any time with Jones, Keith, Gene and/or Casper whether any or all of them have at any time deleted email exchanges with or from Keith re AR4? If affirmative, ask for full details (who, when what etc.).
Of course, if anyone was serious in investigating this matter, they would download the server and back up servers. These days, most institutions make daily or weekly backups, often off site. These backup copies are often kept for lengthy periods such that it is very difficult to complete delete all traces of e-mails. I understand that there are programmes that can check different versions of back up data compiled aty different times and identify the difference.
The problem is that it appears that nobody is that interested in getting to the bottom of all of this.

Theo Goodwin
March 8, 2011 3:46 pm

Roger Knights says:
March 8, 2011 at 10:03 am
Anton says:
March 8, 2011 at 9:06 am
“As with ‘misleading’, below, ‘careful speaking’ is not outright lying.”–Wikipedia (ugh!)
Only a Protestant could come up with this.
“Or a Jesuit.”
Same thing.

Craig Moore
March 8, 2011 3:47 pm

It’s about time that Charles has finally earned his lucrative pay here at WUWT.
;?p

ferd berple
March 8, 2011 3:52 pm

Wikipedia has it right:
Lying by omission
One lies by omission when omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

March 8, 2011 3:52 pm

John F. Hultquist says:
March 8, 2011 at 9:58 am
I thought – incorrectly apparently – that universities and other organizations maintained internal servers that handled incoming and outgoing e-mail, and further, that all of this digital traffic was stored on those units. In a practical sense, then, this would mean that a person using a university e-mail system could not delete files except on a personal computer. A request for files to the university should search the servers and not the researcher’s office computer because those disk drives are not secure archives.
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Hi John,
It actually depends on the configuration of the email system. If the email server is configured for the POP3 protocol, then there are no copies on the server. If the email server is configured for imapi or SMTP, then there could be emails stored on the server.
It’s all up to the technology used and the whim of the server administrator.
I would expect most university email server administrators frequently purge their systems and instruct professors and students to maintain archives.
However, I would also expect the servers themselves get backed up, which might very well include the email store. Typically, backups would be performed a couple of times a week, with last month’s and last year’s backups stored offsite. Weekly backups are then rotated offsite as necessary, and older offsite backup tapes are rotated onsite to be used for the daily backups.
So, older emails might be able to be recovered from the old backups, but these would not necessarily be complete, as some emails would have been purged between the backup tapes being rotated offsite.
Certainly, no university or corporation stores all of the emails the system has processed. It would be cost prohibitive to do so.
Users maintain personal archives (such as your Inbox, or .pst files) because the systems will purge emails regularly.

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