Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I guess having electricity when you need it is sooooo last century … UK families will have to get used to “only using power when it was available”. That constant electricity at home was dangerous anyhow, the unending hum of the wires can drive a man so insane that the only way to cure him is to make him head of the National Grid …
UK persons … comments?
w.
[Update, for those who believe the above is a faked article, I had Green Sand send me a photo and another scan of the actual newspaper. ~ ctm]
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Living ,as I do , in an ex British colony we have a very significant part of the smart grid that goes back over 60 years. It is called a “ripple relay” and it helps load shed individual homes when electrical generation falls behind demand.
It is a remotely controlled electrical contact that is wired into the domestic hot water geyser. When the central control room sends a voltage ripple down the line the relay breaks the circuit and the electrical elements in the hot water tank are turned off.
When supply and demand are more in balance a second “ripple” is sent and the circuit is made once more.
This happens unknown to the occupier and it does help a great deal during the morning and evening peaks. Of course this system no longer works, not that it would matter as thanks to no maintenance or new investment we have power outages for several hours a day , sometimes even for a few days. It is a huge drawback to economic activity this not having reliable electricity.
Smokey , thanks for the correction. Quotation marks are what Willis used and what I meant to say – Just shows you shouldn’t put pen to paper (or hit the keyboard) when you are still irritated!!
Poptech says:
March 5, 2011 at 7:43 am
But what you’re basically saying harks back to when man first encountered fire–he generally had to wait until a fortituous lightening strike near him caught the grass or trees on fire and he decided to warm himself by the blaze. He eventually decided to try sticking some raw meat into such a blaze and found it tasted much better cooked than raw. Finally man decided to control this amazing thing called “fire” so he discovered a way to start one whenever he wanted it, and stored sufficient fuel so he could have ample benefit for as long as he needed it.
However, relying on wind and solar is a step backwards–you’re subjecting man to the whims and vagaries of nature; man is no longer in control. http://www.claverton-energy.com/wind-energy-variability-new-reports.html Certainly you’d agree if there was a way to generate power on demand that turns out to be much cheaper and more reliable than wind/solar (or even coal, hydro and nuclear), there’d be reason to pursue it, right? Well, you’re in luck:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3108242.ece
Poptech
“The grid’s going to be a very different system in 2020 2030. We keep thinking about we want it to be there and provide power when we need it. It’s going to be a much smarter system then, were going to have to change our own behaviour and consume it when it’s available and available cheaply.”
That does not mean you will not have permanently available electricity (no power at all). Nor does it have anything to do with having unlimited power as you don’t even have that now.
That is a much different interpretation than the government deciding to arbitrarily shut your power off for “green” reasons.
Sorry but ‘consume when available’ means it will be unavailable at other times, you seem to be saying when short of power the price will go up but still be available, well what if you cannot afford it, how many people will need to die if Nov/Dec 2010 is repeated when the comsumption was maxed out and the Wind Turbines were deadly still. How much a Kwh will it be then.
During my one week stay in Jamaica more than a decade ago, this is exactly what happened. And there was no warning in advance. The juice would just mysteriously disappear in odd unpredictable cadence. Even on a blue sky day.
The high-end gated resorts (mostly owned by some other non-Jamaican entity I gathered) were equipped with power generators. But I was not in a resort such as that. We stayed in a little pseudo-resort village on the hurricane/pirate-port side of the island, populated by roaming door to door trinket sellers and Medusa-haired rasta men selling used pot cigs. These folks were aggressive sellers. They wouldn’t bother to knock on a door you couldn’t lock anyway. They would just wander in and start talking in broken Jamaican English. By the time they left, you were less a few pieces of silver and the new owner of a poorly made straw and yarn trinket basket, complete with a pot stub. I kept the basket and threw the foul smelling stub away.
Usually every warning is serving a purpose , even by government officials , who generally are creating more burocracy as the problem needs to be resolved …..
What this guy is doing is no different from the climate scare mongers , who are constantly busy creating more government funding without giving any positive contribution to our society . Government officials are luckily not creating the future of our society , facts and perceived futural disasters are always happening to them and there is very little they are able to change , although they may be claiming differently .
Our society is above all influenced by individual stubborn brilliant minds and in future this will not be different , so do not loose hope , if other inviduals are ruled by anxiety ,
the future will have unforeseen pleasant surprises for us as long as we humans ourselves do not spoil it and the planetary constellations permit this .
Yes but Mr. Holliday, we have the necessary technology to make this pernicious threat, just that, it ain’t rocket science but for numpties like you, obviously it must be too complicated.
You’re in the wrong job old son, this ain’t school, this is life and death you’re bullshitting on about.
BTW, you are an arrogant tw8t too, even stoopid people like me can read between the lines, your contempt shows through, to my sensibilities, the loathing is reciprocal.
@poptech,
Oh blah! The technicalities and niceties of who said what….Well! We don’t care, the facts are the salient points here and the fact is, this threat is unnecessary, totally out of order but totally in keeping with the arrogance of our political leaders.
These political leaders wish us to change our ways for no good reason, they will do so without a mandate and against the will of the populace, that is the tyranny of an unhinged Kleptocracy – see the EU.
AGW is the vehicle, the excuse, the lie that drives this ‘green dogma’ forward, ask yourself this, just who the the ***k benefits, it sure as sh*t ain’t gonna be the taxpayer is it??
I live in the sticks and my local power supply kicks out quite often. It’s more of a nuisance rather than a problem, as I have a petrol generator big enough to power lights, refrigeration, and oil fired boiler and associated time-clocks/pumps.
Should the grid be incapable of continuous power on a large scale, I think people will quickly adapt to the new regime – I also expect a large number of politicians will be buried before the stupidity ends.
re Eadler
Murdoch does not own the Telegraph, the Barclay brothers do.
Assuming the wind blows at night, which it often does not. You are ignoring some fundamental problems though. The UK does not have enough energy as roughly 30GW is due to go offline soon thanks to the greens and their anti-nuclear and coal lobbying. We have nothing to replace that with except pipe dreams.
We already have off-peak tarriffs in the UK, so Economy 7 has a slightly higher daytime unit cost, and a lower night time tariff. That’s useful if you have electric hot water storage and storage heaters. Which many people in the UK don’t because they’re not considered green. Using washers and driers overnight may also be a tad impractical given the noise they make.
These suggestions will help sellers of smart grids, meters, appliances but will not help consumers. Our electricity companies are happy because the enforced scarcity just means they can create new tarriffs and charge consumers more. They’ll profit, we’ll pay and because it’s an essential utility, we have very little choice. Our current politicians are in favour of the scheme and we can’t easily get rid of them till our next general elections. Even non-compliance methods, like not paying green surcharges on our bills won’t work because suppliers can simply force the use of pre-pay meters.
Unless our politicians wake up (UKIP excepted), the UK is not going to be a very nice place to live, and certainly not a good place to do business.
Since the so-called “government” of Britain seems bent on restoring the late 19th century, without the coal, perhaps the population might take lessons from the late 18th:
1) How about a Declaration of Independence from the wretched EU?
2) Why not import from France less electricity and more guillotines?
… just a thought from a sympathetic Yank…
Interesting, the hysterical allegations of fraud leveled here.
The story reflects the result of environmentalism gone crazy in the Western world. Its subject has been predicted in America in virtually every public forum where utility companies must defend a requests for increased power generation against mobs of ill-informed environmentalists and delusional amateur economists. Not to mention self-taught “experts” on every imaginable topic from the propagation of energy from cow farts, kitchen waste (vegetarian only, please), cold fission, and crystals.
I think we Brits are at last beginning to get on to this issue.
In a by election at Barnsley this week UKIP (the only party which dissents our asinine energy policies) doubled its vote and came second. John Constable in Standpoint (www.standpointmag.co.uk) in an article entitled “Renewables won’t keep the lights on” has set out the sorry facts about Britain’s current energy policy for anyone who is interested.
Arthur Dent says:
March 5, 2011 at 6:19 am
I think you are talking about quotations rather than parentheses, but with you one is never sure. if so, you are correct. I thought I had quoted it exactly, but I hadn’t.
However, the idea that my misquote is the issue is ludicrous. The issue is that THE UK IS RUNNING OUT OF POWER.
Maybe if you wrapped your mind around that, instead of looking to bust me for a slight imperfection in my quotation, you might be able to actually contribute something to this thread.
Or not. Choice is yours.
w.
Arthur Dent says:
March 4, 2011 at 1:26 pm
You know, I got to thinking about this. I had actually believed you, Arthur. But I’m usually pretty accurate. So I looked at the article again. It says EXACTLY WHAT I QUOTED!! In the second freakin’ paragraph, too, not hidden away.
So go away, Arthur. Not only are you a nitpicker, you can’t even read. Here’s the quote:
Which is what I said. Teach me to believe your claims, I’ll not make that mistake again.
w.
In our remote corner of Oregon supplied with few main lines, the juice cuts out in stormy weather and can take some time to get back up again. I know of many homes and cabins equipped with secondary private power sources wired to come on when ever the power cuts out. At the ranch house, I have no such additional automatic source. If I’m not here, things can go belly up in a hurry. But that is the price of farms and ranches not able to charge for the true cost of food production.
They don’t call WUWT a “spreader of information” for nuthin… Keep up the good work guys!!
[Fixed. ~dbs☺]
Geez……..
Rule 1. Use parentheses to enclose words or figures that clarify or are used
as an aside.
Examples: I expect five hundred dollars ($500).
He finally answered (after taking five minutes to think) that he did not understand the question.
Commas could have been used in the above example. Parentheses show less emphasis or importance.
Em dashes, which could also have been used instead of parentheses, show emphasis.
Rule 2. Use full parentheses to enclose numbers or letters used for listed items.
Example: We need an emergency room physician who can (1) think quickly, (2) treat patients respectfully, and (3) handle complaints from the public.
Rule 3. Periods go inside parentheses only if an entire sentence is inside the parentheses.
Examples: Please read the analysis (I enclosed it as Attachment A.).
OR
Please read the analysis. (I enclosed it as Attachment A.)
OR
Please read the analysis (Attachment A).
No, nothing about quotations. They are used for clarity or context.
Well, let’s see.
Arthur’s claim of a misquote is gone.
Claims that it’s a fake article are gone.
All we’re left with is people who disagree with the interpretation of the article and adamently think they are right and whomever disagrees is wrong.
What else is new?
[Fixed. ~dbs☺]
Haha
My point exactly…. 🙂
[Gratuitous insults are frowned upon. I turned your nasty and baseless insult against everyone who visits this site into a complement. Much better, no? ~dbs, mod.]
DRE says:
March 4, 2011 at 10:36 am
<i."So I guess the human race has just given up. The scramble for dry caves will begin soon. Get yours while you can."
Struth mate! The caves down here have been occupied for some time. And not just the dry ones.
Yorkshire Chris says:
March 4, 2011 at 10:38 am
“… that will squeeze out of the UK the last of its remaining manufacturing industry.”
” … now it is the leader in showing how to reduce a once great nation to a weak power. I hope all our friends in the US, Australia, Canada and elsewhere take note and do not follow our example!”
Too late, Chris. Way too late.
Clear evidence that the AGW scam is taking us back to the Dark Ages.
I must say I’m bemused by a lot of the comments on this thread. OK, the trolls make a showing. Then some nit pickers and quibblers show up. But then some regular WUWT commenters, whose comments normally deserve respect, throw Teddy out of the cot and accuse Willis of perpetrating a fraud!
Really?
Not Joe Romm and Bob Ward, but some people who know a thing or two about power on the one hand and the Greenies on the other!
Well, just for the record, Willis is 100% right, the Telegraph piece is 100% kosher and I heard the BBC Radio 4 “Today” interview with Holliday with my own lying ears.
And (whilst I shouted at the radio in the time honoured fashion, much to the ususal annoyance of my long suffering wife), there was nothing that surprised me.
Because management of electricity demand has long been a plank of the UK (and EU) Greenie platform. Yes, partly by pricing, partly by “Smart Meters” and a new generation of electrical appliances which will turn themselves off (or reduce consumption to a trickle) at the command of the metres.
Now, the proponents of such a scheme tend not to shout the idea from the rooftops. But you aren’t going to have to look to far to find some more details. Look up “zerocarbonbritain2030” in a search engine. Download their ludicrous report (funded/ partnered by Mystic MET and the UEA amongst others.)
OK, they don’t boldly state that they are going they are going to pull the plug and leave little old ladies to die of hypothermia.
But that will clearly be the end result of their stupid religion.
Willis, I apologise unreservedly.
That will teach me to read the whole article and not just a bit of it
Every Willis post becomes a lightning rod for comments…
…almost 4oo this one alone.
If there were only a way to capture that lightning to get it to generate electricity…