NASA's Sunspot Prediction Roller Coaster

Guest Posting by Ira Glickstein

Santa brought us a new Sunspot prediction to be added to NASA’s incredibly high series of at least five ill-fated predictions starting in 2006. NASA’s latest peak Sunspot Number for Solar Cycle #24 (SC24) is down 60% from their original, but it still seems a bit too high, judging by David Archibald’s recent WUWT posting that analogizes SC24 and SC25 to SC5 and SC6 which peaked around 50, during the cold period (Dalton minimum) of the early 1800’s.

According to Yogi Berra “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” Team leader Dr. Mausumi Dikpati of NASA’s National Center for Atmospheric Research and Solar physicist Dr. David Hathaway of the National Space Science & Technology Center have most likely learned that lesson well, having predicted, back in March 2006, that SC24 would start by the end of 2006 or early 2007 and would peak 30% to 50% higher than SC23, which would yield counts of 156 to 180. The latest prediction is 64 (I love their precision :^) but I predict it will have to be reduced further, kind of like an after-Christmas sale :^)

[NOTE added 28 Dec 9:45PM. See clarification comment by: John from CA, December 28, 2010 at 1:44 pm. I was mistaken in conflating NASA with NOAA in the graphic and discussion, wrongly assuming they coordinated their Sunspot predictions. The base chart, as labeled, is from NOAA but the predictions are from Dikpati and/or Hathaway at NASA, but later ones, on a NASA website, may be personal, not official. Thanks John from CA and sorry for my ignorance of government organization. Ira]

NASA Sunspot predictions from 2006 t0 2010. Ira GlicksteinMy graphic traces the downward progression of NASA Sunspot predictions, superimposed over NASA’s NOAA’s latest chart of actual Sunspot Numbers. SC23 is shown from its peak in 2000 to its demise in 2009, along with the rise of SC24 up to the latest November 2010 data. The red hoop, peaking at 90, is left over from their previous prediction and should be replaced by their new prediction in January. [Click graphic for larger version].

As indicated, SC23 peaked at a count of 120 around January 2000. It is instructive to read NASA’s March 2006 predictions (and somewhat humorous until you realize we paid for it). Some direct quotes [emphasis added]:

“The next sunspot cycle will be 30% to 50% stronger than the previous one,” [Dikpati] says… Dikpati’s prediction is unprecedented. In nearly-two centuries since the 11-year sunspot cycle was discovered, scientists have struggled to predict the size of future maxima—and failed. Solar maxima can be intense, as in 1958, or barely detectable, as in 1805, obeying no obvious pattern.

The key to the mystery, Dikpati realized years ago, is a conveyor belt on the sun…

Hathaway … explains: “First, remember what sunspots are–tangled knots of magnetism generated by the sun’s inner dynamo. A typical sunspot exists for just a few weeks. Then it decays, leaving behind a ‘corpse’ of weak magnetic fields.”…

“The top of the conveyor belt skims the surface of the sun, sweeping up the magnetic fields of old, dead sunspots. The ‘corpses’ are dragged down at the poles to a depth of 200,000 km where the sun’s magnetic dynamo can amplify them. Once the corpses (magnetic knots) are reincarnated (amplified), they become buoyant and float back to the surface.” Presto—new sunspots!

All this happens with massive slowness. “It takes about 40 years for the belt to complete one loop,” says Hathaway. The speed varies “anywhere from a 50-year pace (slow) to a 30-year pace (fast).”

When the belt is turning “fast,” it means that lots of magnetic fields are being swept up, and that a future sunspot cycle is going to be intense. This is a basis for forecasting: “The belt was turning fast in 1986-1996,” says Hathaway. “Old magnetic fields swept up then should re-appear as big sunspots in 2010-2011.

Like most experts in the field, Hathaway has confidence in the conveyor belt model and agrees with Dikpati that the next solar maximum should be a doozy. But he disagrees with one point. Dikpati’s forecast puts Solar Max at 2012. Hathaway believes it will arrive sooner, in 2010 or 2011.

“History shows that big sunspot cycles ‘ramp up’ faster than small ones,” he says. “I expect to see the first sunspots of the next cycle appear in late 2006 or 2007—and Solar Max to be underway by 2010 or 2011.”

Who’s right? Time will tell. Either way, a storm is coming.

Did Dikpati and Hathaway honestly believed they had cracked the Sunspot code that had eluded science for two centuries? In hindsight, we all know they were wrong in their heady predictions of a “doozy”. (A doozy, according to Webster is “an extraordinary one of its kind”. NASA expected SC24 to be extraordinarily intense. But it is shaping up to be extraordinarily weak, so they at least get credit for using the correct word :^)

But, were they being honest? Well, Hathaway had long been aware of the relationship between Sunspot counts and climate, writing:

Early records of sunspots indicate that the Sun went through a period of inactivity in the late 17th century. Very few sunspots were seen on the Sun from about 1645 to 1715. … This period of solar inactivity also corresponds to a climatic period called the ‘Little Ice Age’ when rivers that are normally ice-free froze and snow fields remained year-round at lower altitudes. There is evidence that the Sun has had similar periods of inactivity in the more distant past. The connection between solar activity and terrestrial climate is an area of on-going research.

Is it possible that their prediction was skewed to the high side by the prevalent opinion, in the Inconvenient Truth year of 2006, that Global Warming was “settled science”. Could it be that they felt pressured to please their colleagues and superiors by predicting a Sunspot doozy that would presage a doozy of a warm spell?

It seems to me that NASA has a long history of delayed Sunspot predictions, particularly when the trend was downward. They seem to have waited until the actual counts forced them to do so.

Have a look at the graphic. SC23 SC24 [thanks Steeptown December 27, 2010 at 11:37 pm] was supposed to start by early 2007, but it did not. Yet, it took them until October 2008 to revise their prediction of a later start and lower peak (137) and then they dropped it further in January 2009 (predicting a peak of 104 to occur in early 2012).

I am not any kind of expert on Sunspots, yet it was clear to me, nearly two years ago, that 104 was way too high so I predicted a peak of 80 and moved the date of that peak to mid-2013. NASA eventually reduced their peak to 90, and just this month down to 64, and they moved the peak date to mid-2013. My latest prediction is 60, to occur in early 2014, but I believe I may still be a bit too high.

With apologies to Pete Seeger:

Where have all the sunspots gone? NA-SA search-ing,

Where have all the sunspots go-ne? NASA don’t know.

Where have all the sunspots gone? Global Cooling, anyone?

Will NASA ever learn? Will NA-SA ev-er learn?

Where has all the carbon gone? Green-house gas-es,

Where has all the carbon go-ne? Come down as snow!

Where has all the carbon gone? Heating houses, everyone,

Will NASA ever learn? Will NA-SA ev-er learn?

Where has Global Warming gone? Point not tip-ping,

Where has Global Warming go-ne? Its gonna slow.

Where has Global Warming gone? Normal seasons of the Sun,

Will NASA ever learn? Will NA-SA ev-er learn?

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December 29, 2010 8:38 pm

The end of my comment was garbled. Here is what it should say:
You can even take Keller/Fridli from here
You’ll find that 0.6 * raw Locarno = Keller = SIDC [Keller and SIDC are laready multiplied by 0.6 before repoting, hence count(150 mm) = count (80) because they are both limited by seeing.

December 29, 2010 8:45 pm

dscott says:
December 29, 2010 at 5:57 pm
After much searching, Landscheidt predicted SC 24 maxima at 2011.8 ±0.16 years (around 2 months) with R<80.
So Leif have you read Landscheidt’s paper?

Of course. And as should be clear it is failing. Just a few years earlier he predicted that cycle 22 would be very small, another failure.
Now, a test of a theory is not that is makes a successful prediction. It is a prediction that is correct when all other predictions are wrong.

December 29, 2010 9:08 pm

Ira Glickstein, PhD says:
December 29, 2010 at 8:57 pm
but I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree given the full, filtered trace. Does anyone disagree?
The red curve is the official smoothed graph, but note how the little maximum wiggles fall in the local minima of the unfiltered curve. This is an artifact of the crude smoothing method, and a better method gives a different result. But I think I didn’t express my point clearly enough: of course with any set of numbers you can always find one that is not smaller than all the rest, but since there are so many sharp peaks it does not make physical sense to single one out from the bunch as ‘the’ maximum as there are many that could make almost the same claim and solar activity would be substantially different for any of them.

December 29, 2010 9:10 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 29, 2010 at 9:08 pm
solar activity would NOT be substantially different for any of them.

rbateman
December 29, 2010 9:20 pm

Robuk says:
December 29, 2010 at 6:07 am
The most significant thing about a large sunspot is that it takes a great number of very small ones to equal it in total area.
SC24 Sunspot area is barely up where SC22/23 bottomed out.
The little spreckles don’t make much weight in the scales.
Nicht ser gut.

December 29, 2010 9:25 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 29, 2010 at 8:32 pm
I realize that you may not understand the subtlety of seeing and telescopes, but you should be able to compare simple numbers. So take Locarno and compute the count for several months. Then take SIDC and do the same. You can even take Keller/Fridli [from
What I understand is what is counted on the official Locarno and Catania sunspot records. By then comparing them with the SDO high resolution image it is easy to work out the pixel size and hence the kilometer size. That is all the proof needed. The specks counted would not be possible on an 80mm telescope. My telescopes are 60x with “seymour” glass filters. We need to see the keller drawings before we can say he is seeing the same.

Pops
December 30, 2010 4:00 am

They’ve done it again – anything to pump-up the numbers:
NOAA named another speck, 1039, that is gone already.

gary gulrud
December 30, 2010 6:07 am

“They’ve done it again”
The paradigm seems to be broken. Solar revisionism is as futile now as the Climate version. Scientific ‘careers’ are now lost forever in data corruption.

December 30, 2010 6:13 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 29, 2010 at 8:32 pm
This is irrelevant as the seeing is limiting what you can see. Bill Livingston with the biggest solar telescope in the world [a solar image 4 feet across] does not see more spots than the standard 80 mm refractor.
Not irrelevant, and you provide another smoke screen. A standard telescope that does not have adaptive optics that equalizes atmospheric turbulence is restricted to the atmospheric conditions of the day. A large aperture telescope can be limited by atmospheric conditions, making it no better than a hobby telescope from Walmart, but this is extreme considering the siting of the official telescopes. Catania enjoys very good seeing conditions year round that disagrees with your statement. You are also assuming every day is a bad seeing day, the L&P telescope will see so much more on a good day.

December 30, 2010 7:35 am

Geoff Sharp says:
December 29, 2010 at 9:25 pm
We need to see the keller drawings before we can say he is seeing the same.
No drawings are made. The observations are [as they always were] direct visual. [how many times have I said that?]
What is important are the actual counts reported by the observers and they show 0.6*raw Locarno = reduced Locarno = Waldmeier = SIDC = Keller.
The seeing is also a function of location, and of time of day [best at 6 am], so you have to compare apples to apples. Catania is on a mountain in Sicily and has often exceptional seeing [1-1.5″]. But, anyway, again, the numbers the observers report are what we should use. For Catania the k-factor is 0.54 [for 2007-2010].

December 30, 2010 7:55 am

Geoff Sharp says:
December 30, 2010 at 6:13 am
A large aperture telescope can be limited by atmospheric conditions, making it no better than a hobby telescope from Walmart,
You got it.
but this is extreme considering the siting of the official telescopes.
These sites are often mediocre. In cities.
Catania enjoys very good seeing conditions year round that disagrees with your statement.
Catania has good seeing, and that is why its k-factor [0.54] is smaller than the 0.6.
You are also assuming every day is a bad seeing day, the L&P telescope will see so much more on a good day.
The seeing is still the limiting factor. Of course, everybody will see more on a good day and on a bad day. Why is important are the numbers the observers report as I have pointed out many times.
I think the purpose of your orange-apple comparison has been lost. The issue should be: Do we count more today than Waldmeier, Keller, and Zelenka would have counted? All the evidence we have says ‘no’. Differences between observers, telescopes, weighting, seeing, etc are handled by k-factors that are carefully determined to maintain homogeneity with Waldmeier and the 80 mm standard original telescope. If anything, the official count [SIDC] is a bit too low.

December 30, 2010 8:21 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 30, 2010 at 7:35 am
What is important are the actual counts reported by the observers and they show 0.6*raw Locarno = reduced Locarno = Waldmeier = SIDC = Keller.
Waldmeier kept a very close eye on Locarno and determined its k-factor every year.
Here are his results
projection 25 cm projection 25 cm
Observer Location k-factor Observer Location k-factor
Rapp Locarno 0.78
Rapp Locarno 0.67
Rapp Locarno 0.68
Rapp Locarno 0.74
Rapp Locarno 0.75
Rapp Locarno 0.83
Rapp Locarno 0.77
Rapp Locarno 0.81
Rapp Locarno 0.79
Rapp Locarno 0.94
Rapp Locarno 0.78
Rapp Locarno 0.75
Rapp Locarno 0.8 Cortesi Locarno 0.53
Cortesi Locarno 0.58
Pittini Locarno 0.59 Cortesi Locarno 0.58
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.59
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.58
Pittini Locarno 0.57 Cortesi Locarno 0.59
Pittini Locarno 0.64 Cortesi Locarno 0.65
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.6
Pittini Locarno 0.62 Cortesi Locarno 0.6
Pittini Locarno 0.59 Cortesi Locarno 0.6
Pittini Locarno 0.59 Cortesi Locarno 0.6
Pittini Locarno 0.62 Cortesi Locarno 0.66
Pittini Locarno 0.59 Cortesi Locarno 0.57
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.62
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.58
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.57
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.61
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.6
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.59
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.59
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.57
Pittini Locarno 0.6 Cortesi Locarno 0.58
Rapp had a k-factor of 0.78, compared to the others 0.6. This shows the effect of the observer. [A higher k-factor means that you see less].

December 30, 2010 8:30 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 30, 2010 at 8:21 am
Waldmeier kept a very close eye on Locarno and determined its k-factor every year.
I forgot the years. They go from 1945 to 1978.

Pamela Gray
December 30, 2010 8:57 am

Leif shows way more patience that I. Having been a mother of 3, plus a mother of a few waifs in the neighborhood, and being a teacher, by now I would have said:
“Because I told you so, that’s why!”

December 30, 2010 9:26 am

Pamela Gray says:
December 30, 2010 at 8:57 am
Leif shows way more patience that I. Having been a mother of 3, plus a mother of a few waifs in the neighborhood, and being a teacher, by now I would have said:
None of our four children have ever listened to us….
But as a responsible parent, you keep trying…

Pops
December 30, 2010 10:37 am

Now it really is a joke. The latest sunspot, 1140, is only just visible even with all the latest scopes and satellites – it’s barely made it over the limb – yet it has been numbered. Chances are it will stick, but what will they do if it fades before the end of the day? Let me guess….
http://www.solarcycle24.com/

December 30, 2010 11:21 am

Pops says:
December 30, 2010 at 10:37 am
yet it has been numbered. Chances are it will stick, but what will they do if it fades before the end of the day? Let me guess….
The rules for numbering state that if a spot is seen by one than one observer [on the ground – not by spacecraft] and lives for at least twelve hours then it will be counted. Fair enough?

Robuk
December 30, 2010 1:09 pm

Lets get this straight, it is accepted that the low sunspot count in the Maunda was accurate in so far as the equipment allowed and there were enough dedicated observers.
It is also agreed that the climate at the time of those low sunspot observations was unusually cold, the same can be said of the Daulton, low count cold climate, the sun climate link.
Today we have a low count and its cold, but todays count according to some is not really that low so that the present cold period has nothing to do with the sun, it is different to the Maunda and the Daulton, the high activity of the sun since 1950 also has nothing to do with the warming since 1975, thats down to CO2.
The only reason I can see for every speck to be counted today is to distance the present from the past and break the sun climate link, is that correct Leif.

Pops
December 30, 2010 1:18 pm

“The rules for numbering state that if a spot is seen by one than one observer [on the ground – not by spacecraft] and lives for at least twelve hours then it will be counted. Fair enough?”
I bow, as a child humbled before the master… but please check your spelling before posting.

December 30, 2010 2:47 pm

Robuk says:
December 30, 2010 at 1:09 pm
It is also agreed that the climate at the time of those low sunspot observations was unusually cold, the same can be said of the Dalton, low count cold climate, the sun climate link.
The Dalton is more uncertain as the sunspot number is not well determined and the cold not only due to the sun [there was severe volcanic activity].
Today we have a low count and its cold 2010 is the warmest year yet … or so it is said
The only reason I can see for every speck to be counted today is to distance the present from the past and break the sun climate link, is that correct Leif.
Then everyone of the hundreds of amateurs all over the world that count sunspots must be in on that conspiracy. I don’t think so.
And, BTW, the official sunspot count is a bit too low since 2001 compared to all other evidence [and counts] we have, so I don’t see the conspiracy at work [rather the opposite]. At any rate, I know the people involved in this and can vouch for their integrity [this does not mean that they don’t make errors, just that they are honest].
Often, people when they are fixed on an idea will blame the data, the observers, the government, aliens from out space, whomever when the idea doesn’t hold up.

Pops
December 30, 2010 3:02 pm

Robuk says:
December 30, 2010 at 1:09 pm
“…The only reason I can see for every speck to be counted today is to distance the present from the past and break the sun climate link, is that correct Leif.”
Excellent hypothesis, Robuk. You have my vote.

December 30, 2010 3:30 pm

Pops says:
December 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Excellent hypothesis, Robuk. You have my vote.
The hypothesis is false, if for no other reason that it goes the wrong way. The official sunspot counts are too low. for two reasons:
1) the SIDC values have drifted lower since 2001 compared to all other observers
2) the number of spots per unit of solar F10.7 flux is decreasing, see http://www.leif.org/research/Solar-Microwaves-at-23-24-Minimum.pdf
One should not jump to conspiracy theories when one does not know the facts.

December 30, 2010 4:17 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 30, 2010 at 8:21 am
Waldmeier kept a very close eye on Locarno and determined its k-factor every year.
The only way to do a comparison is to have the same observer count through both telescopes, they also need to use the same counting method. Do you know if Locarno was using the Waldmeier weighting method back in the early days pre SIDC?
Cortesi is the main man who took over in 1981 when Locarno became the standard, he also emailed me informing me of the resolution difference between the two telescopes. A lot of his values are sub 0.6.
The telescope aperture seeing factor would put upward pressure on the count, along with the increased speck ratio today. The aperture factor would not be large when solar activity is high but as the speck ratio increases a difference should be apparent as is suggested in Cortesi’s numbers during the low cycle 20. Today’s speck ratio is most likely higher again which cannot be ignored, but the Waldmeier weighting method would be responsible for the largest step.
Pops says:
December 30, 2010 at 10:37 am
Now it really is a joke. The latest sunspot, 1140, is only just visible even with all the latest scopes and satellites – it’s barely made it over the limb
1138 & 1139 probably wont be counted by the LSC today. But the expected NOAA number 1140 could be another large unipolar group.

Robuk
December 30, 2010 4:39 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
December 30, 2010 at 2:47 pm
The Dalton is more uncertain as the sunspot number is not well determined and the cold not only due to the sun [there was severe volcanic activity].
The Daulton from around 1790 to 1830.
One can see that sunspot numbers were unreliable in 1789,1790,1792, and 1793, they were reliable since 1795 and more or less reliable in the ascending phase in 1786-88.
Over the 40 years from 1790 to 1830 they were unreliable for 2 years, reliable in 1791 and from 1795 to 1830=36 years and more or less reliable for 2 years from 1786 to 1788, I would say that coverage is pretty good.
http://spaceweb.oulu.fi/~kalevi/publications/non-refereed2/ESA_SP477_lostcycle.pdf
Leif says,
Then everyone of the hundreds of amateurs all over the world that count sunspots must be in on that conspiracy. I don’t think so.
No, its a contest, the first to see a spot, doesn`t matter how big, its reported then classified later.
I know the people involved in this and can vouch for their integrity
Integrity doesn`t come into it.
Often, people when they are fixed on an idea will blame the data,
Exactly, you say the Dalton is more uncertain even though the count was reliable or more or less reliable for 38 0f those 40 years.

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