NASA's Sunspot Prediction Roller Coaster

Guest Posting by Ira Glickstein

Santa brought us a new Sunspot prediction to be added to NASA’s incredibly high series of at least five ill-fated predictions starting in 2006. NASA’s latest peak Sunspot Number for Solar Cycle #24 (SC24) is down 60% from their original, but it still seems a bit too high, judging by David Archibald’s recent WUWT posting that analogizes SC24 and SC25 to SC5 and SC6 which peaked around 50, during the cold period (Dalton minimum) of the early 1800’s.

According to Yogi Berra “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” Team leader Dr. Mausumi Dikpati of NASA’s National Center for Atmospheric Research and Solar physicist Dr. David Hathaway of the National Space Science & Technology Center have most likely learned that lesson well, having predicted, back in March 2006, that SC24 would start by the end of 2006 or early 2007 and would peak 30% to 50% higher than SC23, which would yield counts of 156 to 180. The latest prediction is 64 (I love their precision :^) but I predict it will have to be reduced further, kind of like an after-Christmas sale :^)

[NOTE added 28 Dec 9:45PM. See clarification comment by: John from CA, December 28, 2010 at 1:44 pm. I was mistaken in conflating NASA with NOAA in the graphic and discussion, wrongly assuming they coordinated their Sunspot predictions. The base chart, as labeled, is from NOAA but the predictions are from Dikpati and/or Hathaway at NASA, but later ones, on a NASA website, may be personal, not official. Thanks John from CA and sorry for my ignorance of government organization. Ira]

NASA Sunspot predictions from 2006 t0 2010. Ira GlicksteinMy graphic traces the downward progression of NASA Sunspot predictions, superimposed over NASA’s NOAA’s latest chart of actual Sunspot Numbers. SC23 is shown from its peak in 2000 to its demise in 2009, along with the rise of SC24 up to the latest November 2010 data. The red hoop, peaking at 90, is left over from their previous prediction and should be replaced by their new prediction in January. [Click graphic for larger version].

As indicated, SC23 peaked at a count of 120 around January 2000. It is instructive to read NASA’s March 2006 predictions (and somewhat humorous until you realize we paid for it). Some direct quotes [emphasis added]:

“The next sunspot cycle will be 30% to 50% stronger than the previous one,” [Dikpati] says… Dikpati’s prediction is unprecedented. In nearly-two centuries since the 11-year sunspot cycle was discovered, scientists have struggled to predict the size of future maxima—and failed. Solar maxima can be intense, as in 1958, or barely detectable, as in 1805, obeying no obvious pattern.

The key to the mystery, Dikpati realized years ago, is a conveyor belt on the sun…

Hathaway … explains: “First, remember what sunspots are–tangled knots of magnetism generated by the sun’s inner dynamo. A typical sunspot exists for just a few weeks. Then it decays, leaving behind a ‘corpse’ of weak magnetic fields.”…

“The top of the conveyor belt skims the surface of the sun, sweeping up the magnetic fields of old, dead sunspots. The ‘corpses’ are dragged down at the poles to a depth of 200,000 km where the sun’s magnetic dynamo can amplify them. Once the corpses (magnetic knots) are reincarnated (amplified), they become buoyant and float back to the surface.” Presto—new sunspots!

All this happens with massive slowness. “It takes about 40 years for the belt to complete one loop,” says Hathaway. The speed varies “anywhere from a 50-year pace (slow) to a 30-year pace (fast).”

When the belt is turning “fast,” it means that lots of magnetic fields are being swept up, and that a future sunspot cycle is going to be intense. This is a basis for forecasting: “The belt was turning fast in 1986-1996,” says Hathaway. “Old magnetic fields swept up then should re-appear as big sunspots in 2010-2011.

Like most experts in the field, Hathaway has confidence in the conveyor belt model and agrees with Dikpati that the next solar maximum should be a doozy. But he disagrees with one point. Dikpati’s forecast puts Solar Max at 2012. Hathaway believes it will arrive sooner, in 2010 or 2011.

“History shows that big sunspot cycles ‘ramp up’ faster than small ones,” he says. “I expect to see the first sunspots of the next cycle appear in late 2006 or 2007—and Solar Max to be underway by 2010 or 2011.”

Who’s right? Time will tell. Either way, a storm is coming.

Did Dikpati and Hathaway honestly believed they had cracked the Sunspot code that had eluded science for two centuries? In hindsight, we all know they were wrong in their heady predictions of a “doozy”. (A doozy, according to Webster is “an extraordinary one of its kind”. NASA expected SC24 to be extraordinarily intense. But it is shaping up to be extraordinarily weak, so they at least get credit for using the correct word :^)

But, were they being honest? Well, Hathaway had long been aware of the relationship between Sunspot counts and climate, writing:

Early records of sunspots indicate that the Sun went through a period of inactivity in the late 17th century. Very few sunspots were seen on the Sun from about 1645 to 1715. … This period of solar inactivity also corresponds to a climatic period called the ‘Little Ice Age’ when rivers that are normally ice-free froze and snow fields remained year-round at lower altitudes. There is evidence that the Sun has had similar periods of inactivity in the more distant past. The connection between solar activity and terrestrial climate is an area of on-going research.

Is it possible that their prediction was skewed to the high side by the prevalent opinion, in the Inconvenient Truth year of 2006, that Global Warming was “settled science”. Could it be that they felt pressured to please their colleagues and superiors by predicting a Sunspot doozy that would presage a doozy of a warm spell?

It seems to me that NASA has a long history of delayed Sunspot predictions, particularly when the trend was downward. They seem to have waited until the actual counts forced them to do so.

Have a look at the graphic. SC23 SC24 [thanks Steeptown December 27, 2010 at 11:37 pm] was supposed to start by early 2007, but it did not. Yet, it took them until October 2008 to revise their prediction of a later start and lower peak (137) and then they dropped it further in January 2009 (predicting a peak of 104 to occur in early 2012).

I am not any kind of expert on Sunspots, yet it was clear to me, nearly two years ago, that 104 was way too high so I predicted a peak of 80 and moved the date of that peak to mid-2013. NASA eventually reduced their peak to 90, and just this month down to 64, and they moved the peak date to mid-2013. My latest prediction is 60, to occur in early 2014, but I believe I may still be a bit too high.

With apologies to Pete Seeger:

Where have all the sunspots gone? NA-SA search-ing,

Where have all the sunspots go-ne? NASA don’t know.

Where have all the sunspots gone? Global Cooling, anyone?

Will NASA ever learn? Will NA-SA ev-er learn?

Where has all the carbon gone? Green-house gas-es,

Where has all the carbon go-ne? Come down as snow!

Where has all the carbon gone? Heating houses, everyone,

Will NASA ever learn? Will NA-SA ev-er learn?

Where has Global Warming gone? Point not tip-ping,

Where has Global Warming go-ne? Its gonna slow.

Where has Global Warming gone? Normal seasons of the Sun,

Will NASA ever learn? Will NA-SA ev-er learn?

Get notified when a new post is published.
Subscribe today!
0 0 votes
Article Rating
315 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
January 3, 2011 7:19 am

Carla says:
If Earth’s field strengthens and weakens with the solar field
It doesn’t.

Robuk
January 3, 2011 8:44 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 2, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Robuk says:
January 2, 2011 at 11:31 am
Likewise you dont count sunspots in the 16 to early 1700`s with small magnification hand held telescopes
This is a typical 17th century telescope:
http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/13/1348/RJCS000Z/posters/the-large-astronomical-telescope-of-johannes-hevelius-1611-1687.jpg
Is that the telescope that was rarely used, ie
The telescope would shake in the smallest breeze, the wooden planks warped, and the ropes had to be constantly adjusted because of stretching and shrinking in the humidity. The unsteadiness also made it difficult to line up the lenses for observations. Due to all these difficulties, this huge telescope was rarely used.
NOT THE BEST TELESCOPE TO VIEW SUN SPECKS.
http://amazing-space.stsci.edu/resources/explorations/groundup/lesson/scopes/hevelius/index
I believe this is the scope of the time,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/Scheinerscope2.jpg
The Jesuits’ unorthodoxy also extended to how they used telescopes. Scheiner, like several other scientists of his day, was very interested in viewing sunspots. He decided against the dangerous approach of viewing these sunspots directly through a telescope. Instead he chose to view the image projected from the telescope. This was Scheiner’s famous helioscope. Amazing as it might seem today, he also built a heavy camera-like device ( a camera obscura ) and positioned it behind his telescope. The image below, from a copy of the Rosa Ursina at Queen’s University, shows how the telescope was used as part of a camera obscura. These innovations and those of another Jesuit, a Father Grienberger, resulted in the finest celestial images during Galileo’s lifetime; the plates of the sunspots in Father Scheiner’s Rosa Ursina.

Robuk
January 3, 2011 8:52 am

Sorry try thid link.
NOT THE BEST TELESCOPE TO VIEW SUN SPECKS.
http://amazing-space.stsci.edu/resources/explorations/groundup/lesson/scopes/hevelius/index.php

January 3, 2011 8:55 am

Robuk says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:44 am
I believe this is the scope of the time,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/Scheinerscope2.jpg

Observed BEFORE the Maunder minimum and saw a lot of spots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scheiners_sun_spots.jpg

Robuk
January 3, 2011 9:09 am

By the way Leif do you see any similarity between this,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/Scheinerscope2.jpg
and this,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/galileonewton.jpg
yet you compare the Maunda to todays count with this,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/Wolf-Telescope.png
Back to basics I think.

January 3, 2011 9:23 am

Robuk says:
January 3, 2011 at 9:09 am
yet you compare the Maunda to todays count with this
You are barking up the wrong tree. Get this into your head [and please acknowledge that you got it]: there were no visible sunspots during the Maunder Minimum. No telescope, however large or small [btw, the best telescope to use has an aperture of 80 mm. There is a reason why this is the standard telescope] would have shown any visible spots. There was solar activity, but ‘sunspots’ [the magnetic fields] were effectively invisible.

Robuk
January 3, 2011 9:59 am

Robuk says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:44 am
Observed BEFORE the Maunder minimum and saw a lot of spots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scheiners_sun_spots.jpg
Yes before the Maunda look at the size of them, what about when it went quiet, this is clearer,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/galileosunspots2.jpg
Sunspot drawing, again note the size, no specks.
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/sunspotdrawingGassendi.jpg
but it doesn`t alter the fact that today specks are counted as spots which probably could not be seen in the Maunda.
You say the sun is lowering the modern count all by itself. with a bit of luck we might get a another Maunder [although I’ll not count on it].
Yes at the moment it is but the count would be lower when compared to the Maunda if the correct telescope is used, which should be similar to the Scheinder scope, the 1865 scope is a nonsense, the lower count would indicate an even quieter cycle.
Sunspot link below,
http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/observations/sunspots.html

January 3, 2011 10:35 am

Robuk says:
January 3, 2011 at 9:59 am
but it doesn`t alter the fact that today specks are counted as spots which probably could not be seen in the Maunda.
Well, are you saying that the Maunder data we have is unreliable?
if the correct telescope is used, which should be similar to the Scheinder scope, the 1865 scope is a nonsense, the lower count would indicate an even quieter cycle.
So, you blame the low Maunder counts on crappy telescopes. Well, I’ll have to disagree with you. The telescopes were good enough, the people observing were superb, they looked hard. You seem to be bent on discrediting the fact that the Maunder minimum was a period of few or no visible spots by blaming the minimum on poor telescopes. Perhaps hoping to discredit the sun-climate link as well.
Take it from me: “there were almost no visible sunspots during the Maunder minimum and this was not due to poor telescopes or lazy observers”
Now, repeat that 50 times in your next post.

Carla
January 3, 2011 11:46 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 7:19 am
Carla says:
If Earth’s field strengthens and weakens with the solar field
It doesn’t.
~
Thanks Leif, cool scope pics though huh?

Robuk
January 3, 2011 12:34 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 10:35 am
Robuk says:
January 3, 2011 at 9:59 am
if the correct telescope is used, which should be similar to the Scheinder scope, the 1865 scope is a nonsense, the lower count would indicate an even quieter cycle.
So, you blame the low Maunder counts on crappy telescopes.
NO, I blame the high count today on using superior equipment, you can`t manufacture past spots but you can discount many small spots and specks seen today by observing them with this,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/Scheinerscope2.jpg
together with this,
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/Wolf-Telescope.png
This will give you a real world side by side comparison, if they both show the same results that will be the end of it, but I doubt will be the case.

January 3, 2011 12:56 pm

Robuk says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:34 pm
This will give you a real world side by side comparison, if they both show the same results that will be the end of it, but I doubt will be the case.
They will not show the same results as there were no spots back then. You did not repeat the statement 50 times. Redeem yourself by doing so next time.

Pops
January 3, 2011 2:12 pm

Tom in Florida
January 2, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Tom, I’m not a WW2 vet, but my respects to you for your service. I was simply using that as a visualization for all the people who are being sacrificed at the high altar of this global warming religion. Our blinkered leaders are so enamoured by the control it brings over the masses that, no matter which political side we vote for, the religion will be pushed as gospel until the current batch of so-called climate scientists are made fully accountable (I temper my all inclusive earlier comment), or Mother Nature puts one last nail in their coffin with another record-breaking winter.
All the best for the New Year.
A little light reading:
http://www.webcommentary.com/php/ShowArticle.php?id=websterb&date=110103
http://hauntingthelibrary.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/noaa-climate-scientist-we-need-to-do-whatever-we-can-to-reduce-population/

johnnythelowery
January 3, 2011 8:54 pm

Carla says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:46 am
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 7:19 am
Carla says:
If Earth’s field strengthens and weakens with the solar field
It doesn’t.
~
Thanks Leif, cool scope pics though huh?
———————————————————-
Carla:
Please explain where you are with your theory now that you know
earth’s (magnetic) field does not strengthen and weaken with the solar (magnetic) field??? Where does your theory come from and why don’t you know this?? And don’t say Pops!

Carla
January 4, 2011 5:50 am

johnnythelowery says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:54 pm
Carla:
Please explain where you are with your theory now that you know
earth’s (magnetic) field does not strengthen and weaken with the solar (magnetic) field??? Where does your theory come from and why don’t you know this?? And don’t say Pops!
~
My theory, (not an original idea) is that where ever the solar system is located in interstellar space at any given time dictates the amplitude of the solar cycle and its associated magnetism. Already late, as was looking for that “original doc” that was my prompt.

Tom Davidson
January 20, 2011 7:11 am

One local (Richmond VA) weather forecaster starts with the predictions of the computer models, and then tracks the trends in the predictions with time. By extrapolating the trends until they converge with time, he is able to produce far more accurate predictions of weather events than the conventional experts. Applying his methodology to this data, it would appear that we are headed towards an actual SC24 maximum of less than 50, sometime about 2013-15.

1 11 12 13