Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
In response to my recent post about whether we could feed more people if everyone were vegetarians (I say no), a poster named Marissa wrote a heartfelt paean to Veganism.
Figure 1. Perhaps the world’s best-known adherent of a strict Vegan diet.
Vegans are a kind of fundamentalist sect of born-again vegetarians who eat exclusively vegetables, no eggs, no fish, no milk, no cheese, no insects. Merissa’s post starts off as follows:
Ok, I don’t think I have read one comment from a true vegan on this thread. Well I am Vegan and let me share with you the benefits that I have experienced …
Merissa follows with a list of the things s/he has gotten from following a Vegan diet. This stirred me to write again about why people eat meat.
Merissa, I think that it is great that you have found a way of eating that works for you. The problem is not that some people find that vegetarianism or Veganism works for them. That’s a good thing. I say more power to you. You should eat exactly what feels best for your life and your body. I ate vegetarian for three years myself.
Now perhaps it’s something in the vegetables that causes the problem, I don’t know. But all too often, recent initiates into the mysteries of some branch of Vegetableism then feel compelled to tell me how much better the world would be if every single person ate, not what works for them, but what works for the Vegetableist in question. And this is all too often accompanied by the claim that we could feed more people if humans only ate vegetables.
For the host of reasons I listed in the previous post, people around the planet have found it advantageous to domesticate and keep (and eat) animals. Perhaps some random Vegan knows more about how to scratch out a living in a hostile world than do all of the billions of poor farmers and householders around the planet, maybe they’re all wrong to keep chickens and pigs and such, maybe we might be able to feed more people if we were all vegetarians … but I doubt it very much. The farmers and the poor around the planet aren’t that stupid.
It has occasionally been my good fortune to work and spend time with very poor people, the dollar a day people, the people at the very opposite end of the economic spectrum from me, or you, or anyone rich enough to own a computer or a pair of nice shoes. There’s a lot to learn at that end of the economy, including about people’s diets. To understand the position of meat in the global diet, you need to remember that most people don’t eat the same as you and me and the folks who own computers and nice shoes. Most people on the planet are already vegetarians most of the time … only not by choice. For most people, meat is a delicacy. It is not on the menu very often.
Once when I was working in Liberia, in West Africa, they were burning a local sugar cane field. The whole village came out with clubs. They surrounded the fire in a long line. When the fire chased the cane rats out of the burning cane, they clubbed the rats and took them home and ate them. I found out that cane rat fried up in slightly over-the-hill orange colored oil palm oil (no refrigeration) tastes pretty good, although for a couple days afterwards I belched more rancid palm oil fumes than an out-of-tune biodiesel Volkwagen …
And of course cane rat is considered a good thing, meat for the family.
Here’s the reason why cane rat is a delicacy, why kids lined up to get some of the meat. The villagers that eat that meat are stronger and healthier and more resistant to disease and quicker to heal and faster growing than the villagers who don’t eat that meat. Simple as that. The chance to eat meat doesn’t come up often. When that chance comes up, those people that eat the meat improve their chances of living compared to those who don’t eat meat.
Our bodies know that and have known it since forever. You could see it in the kids’ eyes, they could smell it, they wanted it, their bodies responded without conscious thought. Meat makes you stronger, it provides a host of vitamins and minerals, it is powerful food. Which is why people eat meat, in Africa and around the planet. It increases their odds of survival in a harsh and unforgiving environment. So they ate cane rats.
Here’s another story from another time and place, with the same subject. One late afternoon, through a series of misunderstandings and coincidences, I found myself sitting in the welcome shade of some trees in a railroad yard in Mexico, waiting to hop a freight train. Two young boys came by, brothers the older one said, perhaps four and seven years old. Built on the usual blueprint of the poor, undersized and skinny. I struck up a conversation in Spanish with the seven year old. The younger boy never said a word. He just trailed a few feet behind his older brother, and watched everything with black shiny eyes.
The older boy had a slingshot made of a tree branch “Y” fork, with a dozen or more ordinary rubber bands of all sizes and colors attached to each fork of the “Y” and to the leather pouch.
I asked what they were doing. The boy said they came to the railroad lines because there were perfectly round stones for his slingshot in the railroad bed. He showed me how hard it was to pull his slingshot. Oh, I suppose you are the grán cazador, the mighty hunter, I jested.
Si, Señor, yo soy, he explained very soberly in Spanish, yes, Sir, I am.
My skepticism must have shown in my eyes. Mira, he said, watch.
He searched around, picked up and discarded a few stones, finally settling on exactly the right one. He put it in the pouch of the slingshot, and started walking around and gazing intently up into the tree branches above us. He stopped, pulled back and let fly.
There was a “poof” sound up in the tree, and a bird the size of a small robin, that I didn’t even know was in the tree, tumbled down at my feet. He and his tiny brother both jumped on it, and he twisted its neck in an economical, practised fashion.
With my mouth hanging open, I hastened to assure him that I was wrong to doubt his word. I said he was indeed a skilled hunter. I asked what he would do with the bird. Oh, para comer, señor, it’s for food, sir, he said. I said are you going to take it home to your mamá to cook it? Oh, no, Señor, somos siete, he said … oh no, Sir … there’s seven of us kids … I nodded my understanding.
He and his short confederate scurried off. They returned with some grass and twigs. He pulled out a tattered matchbook and lit a fire. In no time he had plucked that bird, gutted it, skewered it, and had it cooking over the fire. I watched in astonishment.
I walked to the corner where an old lady was frying tacos on a dished-top tin can stove. I bought a few potato tacos the size of silver dollars. She didn’t sell meat tacos, poor people don’t buy meat tacos. She made tacos with potatoes and tacos with beans. I brought them back, and gave most of them to the midget hunter and his mini-amigo. And God damn it, he wanted me to take half the bird, but I could see their eyes caressing it.
So I told them I could only eat a small bite on account of my liver. That being the common explanation there for any physical infirmity, the older boy nodded sagely. He agreed that a man has to take care of his liver, you can’t be too careful. He said his liver was fine, thanks, and they happily polished off that bird. I bought another round of potato tacos to celebrate, which had similarly short lifetimes.
And you know, as the two of them sat there content under the tree, sucking on the bird bones and watching the sun set, somehow I just didn’t have the heart to tell that small man and his smaller brother-in-arms just how much better off he and his little bitty buddy and the rest of the world would be if only they and everyone else became vegans …
My best to all,
w.
[UPDATE] Twelve years after I wrote this, science is finally catching up with what every kid on a cattle ranch knows … see “Going Vegan Isn’t the Most Sustainable Option for Humanity“.
There’s a Graham Greene story about a vegetarian from America visiting Haiti, where they are informed that they will be happy there, since most Haitians are vegetarian.
My brother-In-Law practiced Vegeterianism but gave it up when he developed arthritis in his fingers aged……………………………………22.
@ur momisugly EM Smith~ Good on you! A helpful contribution
In my bombastic and insensitive days, I once caused a tad of offence by asking for a meat sauce at a vegetarian’s home. The previous month, we’d jumped through a few hoops to prepare suitable food in our own home for our host & hostess. My humour wasn’t appreciated.
St Paul had it about right though when [ concerning food and idol meats scarifices and social / spiritual conscience ] advised the following :-
1 Corinthians 10 verses 23 – 31
“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
So do what you do, don’t impose on your views on others and be grateful you’ve got the means to do what you do.
Here in South Africa, any vegetarian or vegan would have an almost impossible task at “conversion” The Nguni people (collective name of indigenous peoples) have at their cultural epicenter and measure of wealth – cattle. In 1865 an event occurred that is termed “The National Suicide of the Xhosa” involving the slaughter of most of their cattle and grain stocks. The full article is from a Christian site http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-2-THE_NATIONAL_SUICIDE_XHOSA.htm , but is a good historical account, and not religious in content. I myself don’t eat red meat, not because of any “veggie” ideas, but I sometimes get a painful dose of gout from it.
I encourage lots of people to go veggie . . . less competition and more meat for me.
Sorry for being so selfish about my prime rib fetish.
This sums up my response perfectly.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/leave-bacon-out-of-it,-health-experts-warned-20071031506/
In 1973, Dorothy Retallack published a study showing that plants grew better when exposed to classical music. sO…
VEGANS EAT MUSIC LOVERS!
@Ron House;
““Fundamentalist” is a word with a clear definition that does not describe vegans. ”
Definition of FUNDAMENTALISM
1a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs
2: a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles
And a Fundamentalist is one who follows fundamentalism. Now how does veganism not fit the 2nd definition of fundamentalism?
I spent a large part of my boyhood listening to Maori storytellers well over half a century ago. They told polished and spellbinding yarns that had a purpose, sometimes moral, sometimes cautionary, sometimes just pure fun.
Willis, your story about the two small Mexican hunters was right up there with them, and with Steinbeck. Stop messing about, man, write a book!
Brilliant story telling. Thank you. The world needs more sanity like this.
Great story! Kids who know how to do something other than play video games and eat food out of a package.
I agree with TonyB – I think there is far too much unethical treatment of animals – and that’s often why people stop eating meat – not because they think that it’s better for the planet or somehow more sustainable. Look at the way chickens are sorted after hatching, for example – male chicks are not useful, so get thrown live into bins to suffocate or more often, straight into the grinder to become dogfood. Perhaps if we in the west viewed meat more like the examples in Willis story – as a relative luxury – we could the true cost to raise the standard of welfare of the animals. When you can buy a burger for 50c, you have to wonder what kinds of farming and slaughter practices enables that price..
And Wade – you think Vegans don’t know about vitamin B12..?
gallier2
Denise Minger is the Steve McIntyre of nutrition science.
Walter
Not too long ago, 50 years maybe, people were told to eat liver for vitamin A and sauerkraut for vitamin C. I think this was especially important in the winter when no fresh fruits and vegetables were available. Get it? There would be no fresh fruits and vegetables available if it weren’t for jets and trains and trucks and refrigeration using fossil fuels to bring them here. What is natural? Meat.
Willis, you might be interested in reading about the effect of gliadins and lectins on the permeability of the intestines and connections with many modern-day chronic illnesses.
We used to eat what we thought was a very healthy diet – lots of whole grains and legumes with some meat. Some health problems cropped up and we started doing tests to find out why. At least part of the answer is in the gut. We have recently eliminated grains and legumes from our diet and are feeling much better. There may be a day when we eat them again occasionally but with different preparation methods including a lot of soaking and rinsing. Traditional cultures use fermentation and other means to reduce the level of these compounds in foods.
Those flabby white chickens that live in cramped conditions with air conditioning and no exercise and no sun? Most humans I know CHOOSE to live this way. You there sitting in front of your computer… yes I mean you!
Most kids I know don’t want to be vege-tarians. They hate vegetables. They really want to be dessert-atarians.
Little lambs are cute as a button, and by golly they taste great as a plate of mutton.
Eat what you want, just don’t preach to me ’cause you’re FOS. Veganism is about feeling superior to others, with, maybe, a small dash of sympathy for animals. I know many vegetarians and quite a few vegans, there is a huge difference between the level of smugness between the two. Luckily the vegans are so frail I can blow on them and they’ll fall over and stop talking. And they do breast feed, at least one I know, because she breast fed her daughter, in public, when the kid was five years old. She just ran up to the dispenser, flipped up the shirt and went to town. Now you’d never know she was five because she was the size of a normal three year old.
One question I have, as I once stumbled into a vegan cafe in Maine by mistake, is why don’t vegans drink caffeine? Or drink alcohol? Is there some tasty and intoxicating alcohol beastie out there I’m missing out on?
And as many have noted, to be a vegan and healthy requires a lot of expensive supplements that are secretly produced from the tears of baby seals that have clubbed to death.
As a “non-evangelical” vegetarian of thirty-one years, I appreciated the protein opportunism of the people you describe in your article. It would have been interesting to read if any of your travels among those at the opposite end of the economic scale had taken you to India where people would be vegetarian by poverty if they were not already vegetarian by religious choice. One wonders, “Would lentils grow in Africa or Mexico?”
Humans are so in tune with meat that not only do we have teeth specifically geared for biting and masticating meat off of bones, we have found ways to prepare every bit of an animal for dinner. There is nothing better than explaining to children how to harvest and prepare tripe.
Can’t resist:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd137/gorebot/mommykills.jpg
[It’s the cover of a real PETA comic book.]
Kudos on another fine article, Willis.
@gallier2 says: October 20, 2010 at 4:06 am
You may want to go back to your Amazon link and re-read A. Perri’s review. Her discussion reads like WUWT discussions about AGW papers. After reading that, it would be interesting if she, A. Perri, were to post in this thread.
Personally, I don’t eat dogs, cats, live monkeys, or balut. After that, I am open to suggestions.
“cute and cuddly” – that described the racoon that is in my gumbo (lunch), the squirrel in the freezer, the deer my family ate last week. The frog was a few weeks ago, not overcooked. (boil 5 minutes in water and lemon juice, deep fry no more than 4 minutes for thick legs)
Most all the game we eat is seasoned from herbs grown in the garden. Most of our vegetables come from the garden. The fertilizer is provided by the cattle, wood ashes, and a fishhead is placed about 4″ under each plant as it is planted to provide nitrogen as it decomposes.
That racoon stared at the spotlight, eyes glowing like two glittering yellow jewels. 30 minutes later it (and another) were quartered up and soaking in brine. They cost a total of about $0.07 to kill and an hour of my time. They provided about 10 pounds of high quality, and very tasty protein. My children learn that food does not have to come from a package. They learn how to provide for themselves. They learn proficiency with both firearms and “primitive” means of food acquisition. When you look at the world as food and energy, and don’t project anthropogenic qualities to anything but humans, then food takes on a different meaning. Vegans take Bambi, Thumper, Fox and Hound, etc. and project the anthropogenic into the real world. We are humans. Unless you are swimming in the ocean, then you are at the top of the food chain. Our ability to consume most anything (much like that racoon) edible, the use of fire to break down our food and increase its digestibility (unlike the racoon), and intelligence places us at the top of the food chain. Modern conveniences, however, removes many individual humans from that location. They depend on those of us willing to acquire food wherever available and whenever the opportunity presents itself.
My sister-in-law, an on-off vegetarian asked where I drew the line on eating “things” while looking at my families’ toy poodle and her little terrier. I told her “toxicity or inherent disease.” She gaped a bit and asked if I’d eat a dog. Sure, if it were served up by someone else who know’s how to prepare it, or if I was hungry enough to kill and cook it myself.
I think the only animal on this continent (N.A.), excluding certain insects, that should never be eaten is the box turtle. This is due to a diet high in toxic mushrooms. The British SAS has a nice handbook on how to evaluate somethings edibility.
Did I NEED to kill the game to feed my family? Heck no! I can afford to buy whatever I need to feed my family here in the USA! Food is cheap. Do I have a predators desire to hunt? Absolutely. It goes along with the agrarians desire to grow.
Gee, if you are a purist about this you wouldn’t wear leather shoes, wool sweaters (they have to kill off lambs and old stock for meat to make the wool business profitable, particularly ram lambs – you only need one ram for 30-40 ewes if you are keeping a flock). Forget about honey – because of foul brood infection, bees are now killed at the end of each season and replaced anew each spring. My late father-in-law used to trap possums in New Zealand the fur of which was in high demand for lining nylon and other artif fibers mfg machinery to prevent static elect. buildiup … You have to do more research than on just the nutritional aspects if critter life saving is the goal.
Just pay attention to your gut and eat a salad once in a while. I can’t believe Humans argue over what they should be eating. If there are alien species that have moved beyond their home planets, do you think they spend so much of their lives fretting over what they consume on their colonies?
So many people try to feel better about themselves by turning their perspective on life to a “Global” point of view they don’t see that the earth is not safe. Allow me to repeat this, we are not safe on planet Earth. There are any number of things that can and probably will someday wipe out large chunks of humanity if we don’t move beyond our birthplace. “Thinking Globally” seems all too often to be code for ASSUMING that humanity lives safe lives in apartments/homes with no threat to their future and can afford any alteration to their survival choices.
People should frankly start “Thinking Galactically” and realize that their years of trying to force other people to live their lifestyle could be wiped out by a single explosion light years away, to say nothing of tomorrow’s walk across the street.
In short, I’m sick of drowning in this horrific plague of human introspection.