Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
In response to my recent post about whether we could feed more people if everyone were vegetarians (I say no), a poster named Marissa wrote a heartfelt paean to Veganism.
Figure 1. Perhaps the world’s best-known adherent of a strict Vegan diet.
Vegans are a kind of fundamentalist sect of born-again vegetarians who eat exclusively vegetables, no eggs, no fish, no milk, no cheese, no insects. Merissa’s post starts off as follows:
Ok, I don’t think I have read one comment from a true vegan on this thread. Well I am Vegan and let me share with you the benefits that I have experienced …
Merissa follows with a list of the things s/he has gotten from following a Vegan diet. This stirred me to write again about why people eat meat.
Merissa, I think that it is great that you have found a way of eating that works for you. The problem is not that some people find that vegetarianism or Veganism works for them. That’s a good thing. I say more power to you. You should eat exactly what feels best for your life and your body. I ate vegetarian for three years myself.
Now perhaps it’s something in the vegetables that causes the problem, I don’t know. But all too often, recent initiates into the mysteries of some branch of Vegetableism then feel compelled to tell me how much better the world would be if every single person ate, not what works for them, but what works for the Vegetableist in question. And this is all too often accompanied by the claim that we could feed more people if humans only ate vegetables.
For the host of reasons I listed in the previous post, people around the planet have found it advantageous to domesticate and keep (and eat) animals. Perhaps some random Vegan knows more about how to scratch out a living in a hostile world than do all of the billions of poor farmers and householders around the planet, maybe they’re all wrong to keep chickens and pigs and such, maybe we might be able to feed more people if we were all vegetarians … but I doubt it very much. The farmers and the poor around the planet aren’t that stupid.
It has occasionally been my good fortune to work and spend time with very poor people, the dollar a day people, the people at the very opposite end of the economic spectrum from me, or you, or anyone rich enough to own a computer or a pair of nice shoes. There’s a lot to learn at that end of the economy, including about people’s diets. To understand the position of meat in the global diet, you need to remember that most people don’t eat the same as you and me and the folks who own computers and nice shoes. Most people on the planet are already vegetarians most of the time … only not by choice. For most people, meat is a delicacy. It is not on the menu very often.
Once when I was working in Liberia, in West Africa, they were burning a local sugar cane field. The whole village came out with clubs. They surrounded the fire in a long line. When the fire chased the cane rats out of the burning cane, they clubbed the rats and took them home and ate them. I found out that cane rat fried up in slightly over-the-hill orange colored oil palm oil (no refrigeration) tastes pretty good, although for a couple days afterwards I belched more rancid palm oil fumes than an out-of-tune biodiesel Volkwagen …
And of course cane rat is considered a good thing, meat for the family.
Here’s the reason why cane rat is a delicacy, why kids lined up to get some of the meat. The villagers that eat that meat are stronger and healthier and more resistant to disease and quicker to heal and faster growing than the villagers who don’t eat that meat. Simple as that. The chance to eat meat doesn’t come up often. When that chance comes up, those people that eat the meat improve their chances of living compared to those who don’t eat meat.
Our bodies know that and have known it since forever. You could see it in the kids’ eyes, they could smell it, they wanted it, their bodies responded without conscious thought. Meat makes you stronger, it provides a host of vitamins and minerals, it is powerful food. Which is why people eat meat, in Africa and around the planet. It increases their odds of survival in a harsh and unforgiving environment. So they ate cane rats.
Here’s another story from another time and place, with the same subject. One late afternoon, through a series of misunderstandings and coincidences, I found myself sitting in the welcome shade of some trees in a railroad yard in Mexico, waiting to hop a freight train. Two young boys came by, brothers the older one said, perhaps four and seven years old. Built on the usual blueprint of the poor, undersized and skinny. I struck up a conversation in Spanish with the seven year old. The younger boy never said a word. He just trailed a few feet behind his older brother, and watched everything with black shiny eyes.
The older boy had a slingshot made of a tree branch “Y” fork, with a dozen or more ordinary rubber bands of all sizes and colors attached to each fork of the “Y” and to the leather pouch.
I asked what they were doing. The boy said they came to the railroad lines because there were perfectly round stones for his slingshot in the railroad bed. He showed me how hard it was to pull his slingshot. Oh, I suppose you are the grán cazador, the mighty hunter, I jested.
Si, Señor, yo soy, he explained very soberly in Spanish, yes, Sir, I am.
My skepticism must have shown in my eyes. Mira, he said, watch.
He searched around, picked up and discarded a few stones, finally settling on exactly the right one. He put it in the pouch of the slingshot, and started walking around and gazing intently up into the tree branches above us. He stopped, pulled back and let fly.
There was a “poof” sound up in the tree, and a bird the size of a small robin, that I didn’t even know was in the tree, tumbled down at my feet. He and his tiny brother both jumped on it, and he twisted its neck in an economical, practised fashion.
With my mouth hanging open, I hastened to assure him that I was wrong to doubt his word. I said he was indeed a skilled hunter. I asked what he would do with the bird. Oh, para comer, señor, it’s for food, sir, he said. I said are you going to take it home to your mamá to cook it? Oh, no, Señor, somos siete, he said … oh no, Sir … there’s seven of us kids … I nodded my understanding.
He and his short confederate scurried off. They returned with some grass and twigs. He pulled out a tattered matchbook and lit a fire. In no time he had plucked that bird, gutted it, skewered it, and had it cooking over the fire. I watched in astonishment.
I walked to the corner where an old lady was frying tacos on a dished-top tin can stove. I bought a few potato tacos the size of silver dollars. She didn’t sell meat tacos, poor people don’t buy meat tacos. She made tacos with potatoes and tacos with beans. I brought them back, and gave most of them to the midget hunter and his mini-amigo. And God damn it, he wanted me to take half the bird, but I could see their eyes caressing it.
So I told them I could only eat a small bite on account of my liver. That being the common explanation there for any physical infirmity, the older boy nodded sagely. He agreed that a man has to take care of his liver, you can’t be too careful. He said his liver was fine, thanks, and they happily polished off that bird. I bought another round of potato tacos to celebrate, which had similarly short lifetimes.
And you know, as the two of them sat there content under the tree, sucking on the bird bones and watching the sun set, somehow I just didn’t have the heart to tell that small man and his smaller brother-in-arms just how much better off he and his little bitty buddy and the rest of the world would be if only they and everyone else became vegans …
My best to all,
w.
[UPDATE] Twelve years after I wrote this, science is finally catching up with what every kid on a cattle ranch knows … see “Going Vegan Isn’t the Most Sustainable Option for Humanity“.
Been amazed at some of the comments here. In fact, it really has changed my opinion about the people who post on this website. Some of it has been drivel, some of it would sound good coming out a slack-jawed yokel, and some I would expect to hear from a knuckle-dragging individual. “Give me raw meat!” As a vegetarian for 30 years, I’ve heard the pathetic arguments from ‘men’ who think that by saying I’m vegetarian, that I have obviously just insulted their mother and kidnapped their child. But it’s still very disappointing to hear the pure rubbish and intelligence-bereft musings of people who share the same belief in AGW as me – such that they frequent this site. As I said, it really has changed my opinion about my fellow-sceptics here – and I cannot view this site in the same frame of mind again. Very disappointed, and I will have to find a new climate-sceptic website where there is more evident intelligence.
Well, we all take home the message we want to hear.
What I got from the earnest little roasted bird anecdote was that those little kids were keen to give away half their meat in exchange for some good beans, potatoes and tortillas.
I wasn’t sure that it was nice of them to offer to share with a prosperous gringo what they didn’t want to share with their own siblings.
But then it was all just a joke, right?
Dear Power Grab,
I agree “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” by Dr. Weston A. Price is a stunning masterpiece. It should be required reading by all doctors, nutritionists and parents.
The photos and text simply blow away all the silly wrong-headed notions about food and health.
Re;#
Alexander Harvey says:
October 20, 2010 at 1:41 pm
“C.W. Schoneveld
One could wait many a year for a quotation from Religio Medici, then two come along together. … Have you read it all? I have barely read more than half, but hopefully I will correct this before I die. Alex”
#Yes, I have read it all, since I translated the work into Dutch. It will be in the press soon.
Well I’m not going to chastise Willis for starting this ruckus; it is always interesting to find out what people think about ordinary everyday things.
From the posts, I see that we are an eclectic lot. Some of us have in our dining room a complete analytical lab with chromatography machines and mass spectrometers, to process the foods they eat, to be sure that all the right chemicals are present.
Then for some of us it is a high religious experience to consume something that is non-offensive and saves us from an accusation of suicide.
Why the need for separate labels such as “vegetarian” and “Vegan”. Oh I see, a Vegan is a vegetarian; but a vegetarian is not; since he consumes animal products.
Then there is the philosophical motivation; now that some now assume that “animals” have “rights” just like humans. So where does that stop in the Animal Kingdom; with Primates; or with mammals, or maybe invetebrates is the limit. Do cpackroaches and termites have rights; that would put them off the table fare; howabout the Malaria paraiste or the agent of Smallpox.
So why don’t plants have rights too; does the apple tree scream when we reach up and kidnap one of her children, and proceed to slaughter it.
Maybe we should get our food the way Mother Gaia does; out of rocks and water and the atmosphere; along with solar energy, so we don’t have to exterminate any living creature to sustain ourselves.
Well frankly; I don’t care what you all eat; or how kinky and weird your meals are; eat whatever you choose.
But where I really draw the line, is when you start to tell me what I may or may not consume to sustain me. I will make that decision; and I’m not amenable to any enforced consumption or abstinence.
I choose to not eat certain kinds of foodstuffs; like California Condors, or Whooping Cranes; there simply isn’t enough of them to provide a reliable source of food; so I prefer to avoid them. And I avoid lots of other stuff for the same reasons. I don’t need a lecture on why I shouldn’t eat those things; I can figure that out for myself.
For those interested, Weston A. Price’s book (with photos) can be read here:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html
Ghost:- that is the sort of ignorant comment you yourself were mocking and quite typical of the evangelist veggie. Get the hell out of my diet, you eat what you want and I will express my freedom of choice too, arnt you lucky to be able to afford that high cost diet, If I had that sort of income I would seek out un adultered meat (no added anti biotics, water salt etc,etc) and really get healthy.
George E. Smith says:
October 21, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Well to echo what you said but amplify a little the important thing about food is having some to eat: having ample food of whatever sort keeps us alive. Whereas having no food leads to starvation and death.
Humans are omnivores who can more or less eat anything that isn’t poisonous, although in many cultures potentially toxic foods are not only eaten but considered a delicacy.
Those wealthy enough with abundant and diverse food supplies can afford to be as picky as they please: and luxuriate in their chosen diet upon some self aggrandising justification.
The poor cannot afford such luxuries but must eat what they can manage to buy with their limited incomes.
Kindest Regards
Sorry if I repeat anything said earlier in this thread by others– I didn’t read all the posts in this over-worked argument of veganism vs reality– but the standard argument that we could feed more people if people didn’t eat meat is patently false: if you calculate the calorie & protein content of an acre of corn, rice & beans (a combination of which will, in fact, provide all essential amino acids) vs an acre of pasture land raising cattle, you will find that the herd provides more protein and almost as many calories, while utilizing almost no petroleum in the process, as the crops. One can also raise cattle on less fertile & more arid land than one can raise crops. The “environmental benefit ” of veganism is a lie.
JLL says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:37 am
Dunno what to tell you. The oil was an ugly bright orange color, and came from palm trees. Maybe the locals eat what the oil mills can’t sell, but I can assure you, it went in a bit rancid, and came out the same …
Oliver Ramsay says:
October 21, 2010 at 9:26 am
Sorry for the lack of clarity in my writing. There was absolutely no trade involved in the bird meat. They asked me to take half because in their world I was a respected “Señor”, and because they were polite and generous to a fault, in common with many of the very poor around the world.
I visited a family once on the plains outside the salt flats of Kaolack, in Senegal. Senegal is the land God stepped on, just about flat from one side to the other. It’s in the sub-Saharan region, not much plant life around. The family lived in a mud hut, mom, dad, a bunch of kids, some older relatives. Mom spent about four hours a day either fetching and hauling water or fetching and hauling firewood. During the hot season, they slept outside, covered with a sheet. I asked why they used the sheet when it was so hot. They said it kept the ultrafine wind-borne dust from settling in their mouth and nose and eyes …
Anyhow, when we got there, the father showed us around. He told one of the kids to go kill a chicken. From his manner, you would have though he had a flock of dozens of fat hens and a few roosters out back. But I’d been around the back and I’d seen that he had a total of two scrawny chickens, last seen arguing over a bug.
So again, all I could do was eat as little chicken meat as I politely could, with all of the kids lined up around the wall and waiting for the adults to finish. Then when I said I couldn’t eat but a little, using some excuse or other, the adults fell to, and consumed the rest. The kids got the bones when the adults were done, and they could also dig in to the common rice bowl.
And I got laughed at because I couldn’t eat rice from the big common bowl with my fingers like everyone else did. They had a way of rolling the rice into a ball and tossing it into their mouth. When I tried it, the ball of rice exploded when it touched my lips, and to the great merriment of the kids, I ended up looking like the loser in a snowball fight. And the meal went on …
In addition to confirming the essential generosity of the rural poor and the fact that I can’t eat rice with my hands, the meal also highlighted another strange thing about the poorest of the poor. In the US, when there’s not much food, we tend to give it to the kids.
But the dollar-a-day people can’t afford that. They are too near the edge. An African friend of mine explained it in a few words. “If a child dies, there will be more. But if the parents die, the family dies. So we give the food to the parents first, and if there is food left over, we feed the children.”
So yes, the things that we find normal and natural don’t necessarily work that way at the other end of the economic spectrum. As a poor friend of mine used to say, “We’re not at the end of the line. It’s like a fishing line, and there’s a hook at the end of the line. But that’s not us. At the very end of the line is the sinker, and that keeps the end of the line down at the very bottom. That’s us.”
We seem to draw the line at “killing” animals. But animals kill each other. I don’t think we have the technology yet to really transcend our animal natures. [1] If somebody wants to create a food source that is more healthy and doesn’t involve meat, that is perfectly OK and preferable.
Unfortunately the jury is still out on whether meat or grains are healthy for us.
[1] We also try not to kill each other and on the whole that has been improving, but how quickly are wars “morally justified” that makes any moral stance about killing a very relative affair.
Eating meat made us smarter.
I’m convinced veganism is an eating disorder on the order of anorexia. A vegan consciously chooses to not consume a class of healthy foods. How’s that any different than an anorexic who chooses to not consume all classes of foods, healthy or not? The malnutrition from a vegan diet seems puts the vegan in a negative feedback loop where their poorly functioning brains tell them to continue to eat in an unhealthy manner.
For the one poster who knows someone that is a vegan in protest to food abundance, that’s not a very convincing argument. One doesn’t have to be a meat glutton, or a food glutton for that matter. Just because there is abundance doesn’t mean one has to overindulge. Just as the author of the post has done in his experience, show a little bit of humility and gratitude and consume a modest portion.
Little known fact, vitamin B12 which is necessary for all higher life forms, is found only muscle tissue. Humans cannot manufacture their own B12, it is a necessary nutrient. In a truly vegetarian diet B12 can be a problem. The only real source of it is in the insects that are consumed along with the veggies- worms in broccoli, meal moths and beetles ground up in flour, various bacteria and algae consumed along with the veggies.
Children particularly can have serious problems on a strict vegetarian diet.
I’m not a vegetarian – I’m a strict carnivore, damnit…. but only out of compassionate considerations.
I’m told that cows are bad for the planet and release far too much methane into the atmosphere. Therefore, I have solemnly sworn myself to save the planet. One. Cow. At. A. Time.
You’re welcome.