Vegans are not from Vegas

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

In response to my recent post about whether we could feed more people if everyone were vegetarians (I say no), a poster named Marissa wrote a heartfelt paean  to Veganism.

Figure 1. Perhaps the world’s best-known adherent of a strict Vegan diet.

Vegans are a kind of fundamentalist sect of born-again vegetarians who eat exclusively vegetables, no eggs, no fish, no milk, no cheese, no insects. Merissa’s post starts off as follows:

Ok, I don’t think I have read one comment from a true vegan on this thread. Well I am Vegan and let me share with you the benefits that I have experienced …

Merissa follows with a list of the things s/he has gotten from following a Vegan diet. This stirred me to write again about why people eat meat.

Merissa, I think that it is great that you have found a way of eating that works for you. The problem is not that some people find that vegetarianism or Veganism works for them. That’s a good thing. I say more power to you. You should eat exactly what feels best for your life and your body. I ate vegetarian for three years myself.

Now perhaps it’s something in the vegetables that causes the problem, I don’t know. But all too often, recent initiates into the mysteries of some branch of Vegetableism then feel compelled to tell me how much better the world would be if every single person ate, not what works for them, but what works for the Vegetableist in question. And this is all too often accompanied by the claim that we could feed more people if humans only ate vegetables.

For the host of reasons I listed in the previous post, people around the planet have found it advantageous to domesticate and keep (and eat) animals. Perhaps some random Vegan knows more about how to scratch out a living in a hostile world than do all of the billions of poor farmers and householders around the planet, maybe they’re all wrong to keep chickens and pigs and such, maybe we might be able to feed more people if we were all vegetarians … but I doubt it very much. The farmers and the poor around the planet aren’t that stupid.

It has occasionally been my good fortune to work and spend time with very poor people, the dollar a day people, the people at the very opposite end of the economic spectrum from me, or you, or anyone rich enough to own a computer or a pair of nice shoes. There’s a lot to learn at that end of the economy, including about people’s diets. To understand the position of meat in the global diet, you need to remember that most people don’t eat the same as you and me and the folks who own computers and nice shoes. Most people on the planet are already vegetarians most of the time … only not by choice. For most people, meat is a delicacy. It is not on the menu very often.

Once when I was working in Liberia, in West Africa, they were burning a local sugar cane field. The whole village came out with clubs. They surrounded the fire in a long line. When the fire chased the cane rats out of the burning cane, they clubbed the rats and took them home and ate them. I found out that cane rat fried up in slightly over-the-hill orange colored oil palm oil (no refrigeration) tastes pretty good, although for a couple days afterwards I belched more rancid palm oil fumes than an out-of-tune biodiesel Volkwagen …

And of course cane rat is considered a good thing, meat for the family.

Here’s the reason why cane rat is a delicacy, why kids lined up to get some of the meat. The villagers that eat that meat are stronger and healthier and more resistant to disease and quicker to heal and faster growing than the villagers who don’t eat that meat. Simple as that. The chance to eat meat doesn’t come up often. When that chance comes up, those people that eat the meat improve their chances of living compared to those who don’t eat meat.

Our bodies know that and have known it since forever. You could see it in the kids’ eyes, they could smell it, they wanted it, their bodies responded without conscious thought. Meat makes you stronger, it provides a host of vitamins and minerals, it is powerful food. Which is why people eat meat, in Africa and around the planet. It increases their odds of survival in a harsh and unforgiving environment. So they ate cane rats.

Here’s another story from another time and place, with the same subject. One late afternoon, through a series of misunderstandings and coincidences, I found myself sitting in the welcome shade of some trees in a railroad yard in Mexico, waiting to hop a freight train. Two young boys came by, brothers the older one said, perhaps four and seven years old. Built on the usual blueprint of the poor, undersized and skinny. I struck up a conversation in Spanish with the seven year old. The younger boy never said a word. He just trailed a few feet behind his older brother, and watched everything with black shiny eyes.

The older boy had a slingshot made of a tree branch “Y” fork, with a dozen or more ordinary rubber bands of all sizes and colors attached to each fork of the “Y” and to the leather pouch.

I asked what they were doing. The boy said they came to the railroad lines because there were perfectly round stones for his slingshot in the railroad bed. He showed me how hard it was to pull his slingshot. Oh, I suppose you are the grán cazador, the mighty hunter, I jested.

Si, Señor, yo soy, he explained very soberly in Spanish, yes, Sir, I am.

My skepticism must have shown in my eyes. Mira, he said, watch.

He searched around, picked up and discarded a few stones, finally settling on exactly the right one. He put it in the pouch of the slingshot, and started walking around and gazing intently up into the tree branches above us. He stopped, pulled back and let fly.

There was a “poof” sound up in the tree, and a bird the size of a small robin, that I didn’t even know was in the tree, tumbled down at my feet. He and his tiny brother both jumped on it, and he twisted its neck in an economical, practised fashion.

With my mouth hanging open, I hastened to assure him that I was wrong to doubt his word. I said he was indeed a skilled hunter. I asked what he would do with the bird. Oh, para comer, señor, it’s for food, sir, he said. I said are you going to take it home to your mamá to cook it? Oh, no, Señor, somos siete, he said … oh no, Sir … there’s seven of us kids … I nodded my understanding.

He and his short confederate scurried off. They returned with some grass and twigs. He pulled out a tattered matchbook and lit a fire. In no time he had plucked that bird, gutted it, skewered it, and had it cooking over the fire. I watched in astonishment.

I walked to the corner where an old lady was frying tacos on a dished-top tin can stove. I bought a few potato tacos the size of silver dollars. She didn’t sell meat tacos, poor people don’t buy meat tacos. She made tacos with potatoes and tacos with beans. I brought them back, and gave most of them to the midget hunter and his mini-amigo. And God damn it, he wanted me to take half the bird, but I could see their eyes caressing it.

So I told them I could only eat a small bite on account of my liver. That being the common explanation there for any physical infirmity, the older boy nodded sagely. He agreed that a man has to take care of his liver, you can’t be too careful. He said his liver was fine, thanks, and they happily polished off that bird. I bought another round of potato tacos to celebrate, which had similarly short lifetimes.

And you know, as the two of them sat there content under the tree, sucking on the bird bones and watching the sun set, somehow I just didn’t have the heart to tell that small man and his smaller brother-in-arms just how much better off he and his little bitty buddy and the rest of the world would be if only they and everyone else became vegans …

My best to all,

w.

[UPDATE] Twelve years after I wrote this, science is finally catching up with what every kid on a cattle ranch knows … see “Going Vegan Isn’t the Most Sustainable Option for Humanity“.

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October 20, 2010 3:46 am

Vegans are a kind of fundamentalist sect of born-again vegetarians who eat exclusively vegetables, no eggs, no fish, no milk, no cheese, no insects.

Why are you starting with a pejorative and inflammatory description? “Fundamentalist” is a word with a clear definition that does not describe vegans. “Vegan” is simply a description of an eating habit. Leave it out and leave out “born again” and you’d have it about right.

Now perhaps it’s something in the vegetables that causes the problem, I don’t know. But all too often, recent initiates into the mysteries of some branch of Vegetableism then feel compelled to tell me how much better the world would be if every single person ate, not what works for them, but what works for the Vegetableist in question. And this is all too often accompanied by the claim that we could feed more people if humans only ate vegetables.

I think you’ll find that this perception of yours is point-of-view bias. My story: When I chose to become a vegetarian, I made the following resolution: (1) that although I believed meat eating to be morally wrong, it was each person’s choice and I would never, not ever, make comment on anyone else’s eating habits, but (2) equally, I would never help anyone else do anything I believed was wrong.
So.
I have kept to that resolution faultlessly ever since, but I have had countless discussions about meat eating over dinner in the years since, because when I quietly sit down, unobtrusively refuse the meat, I get accosted. Yes, accosted, by some meat eater in the ensemble, talking rubbish. Maybe “You eat vegetables, don’t you think it’s wrong to murder vegetables?” “If people didn’t eat meat, cows would over-run the world.” “If you don’t think you should kill a cows, what right do you have to swat a fly?” And so on.
And on.
And on.
And on.
And on.
Year after year.
Lucky you! You only run into intolerant vegetarians once or twice a year. I run into stupid moronic intolerant meat eaters maybe every second time I eat in company.
People don’t like those who differ from themselves. It makes them uncomfortable. They behave stupidly in response. And your article here has contributed nothing to creating understanding, it has just brought a lot of intolerant nonsense (both in the article and in comments) onto a website that is normally opposed to stupidity and antisocial behaviour.

Alex the skeptic
October 20, 2010 3:49 am

Last time I heard, vegans have a high risk of going blind due to retinal deterioration. The report I had read in the medical section of our local paper ( i’m relying on my memory) was that eating eggs is good for our eyes, because it contains some goodies that sustain the retina. In fact, this report was based on a fact that occured in France, where a vegan went blind.

RockyRoad
October 20, 2010 3:57 am

Willis claims vegans eschew even insects. However, vegans would be shocked–SHOCKED I tell you, to find out how many insects or remains of insects are found in the vegetables they eat. They flat out should never use a microscope to examine their food up close–if they did, they’d never eat another item and they’d starve to death.
(I’ve got a wonderful Leica phase contrast microscope that can go to 10,000 magnification and I’ve looked at some veggies with it–believe me, folks, what I’ve seen sometimes would even turn my steel stomach.)

Cirrius Man
October 20, 2010 4:04 am

The obvious question to a Vegan used to be
“Is it because you love animals or is it that you just hate vegetables”
Looks like the question was all wrong. They just want a way of sustaining a bigger world population by removing all the animals !

gallier2
October 20, 2010 4:06 am

There’s also the book of Lierre Keith which debunks some of the common myths about veganism. Don’t be rebutted by the bad rating on amazon, as she was heavily attacked by the vegan bunch (going as far as attacking her with pepper laced pies, so much for the peace loving of vegans).
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myth-Food-Justice-Sustainability/dp/1604860804/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1287572409&sr=1-1
As for the arguments she brings up, the ecological one is not forgotten. Here a link to the site of Dr.Eades where he make a recension of the book.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/the-vegetarian-myth/

OG
October 20, 2010 4:10 am

,
>…”Your concern for the helpless is admirable. That said, lets put this in perspective. Imagine an existence where most of your children never live past age 5. 85% of people born do not live past the age of 35 years. A simple cut can be deadly. And I am not talking about thousands of years ago, I am talking up to about the middle to late 1800′s…”
You’re talking about right now for a huge portion of the world’s population. Like Mr. Eschenbach, I’ve spent a lot of time in the “third world” including a year or so in the jungles of Colombia in the 1970’s getting to know what life was like for the Cuiba Indians. Those with fantasies about Mother Nature’s indigenous earth children living in Gaia’s natural environment should take a hard look at those figures, they reflect the realities of ‘natural’ life, and life for a huge portion of earth’s current population.
Among the Indians, infanticide was common. If a woman had a healthy child who was still nursing, and gave birth to another, the newborn was sometimes killed or abandoned to avoid diverting that resource away from the older child.
Meat is a very hard won commodity. Try feeding your family where there are no rocks and no metallic objects, and what you have to hunt with are sharpened sticks.
That thing on Discovery channel with the frog poison is very difficult to do. It works, but it is not an option most of the time, not if you want to eat every day. Fish can be seasonal since they’re caught by diverting them into traps during dry season when the river is low enough to do so. Insects are a large part of the diet.
Veganism as practiced in the developed world is a luxury. Where it is practiced in the rest of the world it is more of a harsh reality indicative of extreme poverty and lack of resources.
However, Vegans do have a point about the meat factories where animals might be raised in a less than healthy environment with who-knows-what bulk producing hormones added to their diet. This is why I get as much of my meat as possible by hunting and fishing. 🙂

gallier2
October 20, 2010 4:28 am

As for sustainability there’s also the not that serious proposal of Tom Naughton
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2010/09/27/a-modest-proposal/
We should eat vegetarians…

Stefan
October 20, 2010 4:29 am

House
OK, article is inflammatory. Can I ask, why do you believe that eating meat is morally wrong?
That’s like saying all the carnivores in Nature are evil. Is it because we have a choice? But when I consume a resource, that resource could have been consumed by another animal. Perhaps I shouldn’t be alive? But then we’re back to life&death dualities.
Is it because people don’t need to eat meat? But then that’s not an established fact. Nutrition is poorly understood. What is a need? Do we have a need to be healthy? Or is our needs and rights just the minimum to be alive? How does nutrition affect intelligence? Or longevity? Do we have any facts about this? So… what’s the morality?

Lonnie Schubert
October 20, 2010 4:37 am

Wow! Thanks, Willis.
If one considers single celled animals, is it possible to be vegan? And yes, plants react to damage similarly to animals. Life eats life. That is the way it is, the way it must be.
For those who would like a Bible reference, Deut 12:20, When the LORD your God has enlarged your territory as he promised you, and you crave meat and say, “I would like some meat,” then you may eat as much of it as you want.

Stefan
October 20, 2010 4:37 am

@E.M. Smith “Well, the vegetarians eat a much larger volume of lower food value food, for one thing.”
Dr Eades highlighted a paper regarding the human rib cage, which tapers in at the waist, instead of out, like apes’ do. It is an interesting argument. Our bodies adapted to have narrow waists with small guts, and the saving in gut tissue (all tissue needs energy to exist) was taken up by the brain. All things being equal, compared to apes, humans have smaller guts and bigger brains. Everything else is similar, apparently. So the argument goes, we could only afford to have small guts if we are used to eating small amounts of high value food. And we could only afford big brains if our guts are smaller. Eating meat = more brain.
It is just an argument but it is interesting.

ShrNfr
October 20, 2010 4:40 am

It is noted by Janzen in his biography of Hitler that Hitler had uncontrollable flatulence due to his vegan diet. The human gut is built someplace between the short gut of a carnivore and the very long gut of a vegan. Using it for a strict vegan diet produces lots of methane and we all know that will lead to the death of the planet through global farting warming.

Curiousgeorge
October 20, 2010 4:40 am

The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:
October 20, 2010 at 2:48 am
…………………………Meat eaters (like the majority reading this) are hypocrites because they’ll eat a chicken, but can’t bear to eat anything fluffy, cute or domesticated. So you see, we’re all hypocrites. Just enjoy your life and don’t criticise other’s beliefs.
Please don’t generalize. I will eat (and have eaten) many “fluffy, cute or domesticated” critters, as well as anything else that isn’t poisonous, or doesn’t eat me first. And quite often have killed and prepared it. Most of the time I enjoyed every bite. I’m one of those who knows where my food comes from, and I don’t get all emotional about it.

D Bonson
October 20, 2010 4:42 am

Like most humans, I am an omnivore. I require a range of foods to stay (somewhat) healthy.
Extreme diets such as veganism can only be practiced with the aid of supplements. Unfortunately for the world’s poorer population, these supplements are too expensive to purchase.

kai
October 20, 2010 4:46 am

Agree completely with this post, and it reflect my own experience: Proteins are in short supply in many poor region of the world, and meat is a good source of protein. Milk (for those who can digest it) and eggs are too, but not up to the same level apparently, given how much effort people are ready to spend hunting even a small animal or fish.
I spent 1 week in india under a non-strict vegetarian diet (I ate eggs as much as I could, and I had some chicken on one occasion). Not because I choose too, because there was nothing else available in the company restaurants I visited. Not too bad from a taste point of view, I like spicy food and it was spicy enough, did not miss meat much for this…but for health benefits, what I observed was that I was really tired after 4 days of this diet, and feeled much better once I went back to my classic amount of meat.
Strict Vegan, who do not even eat eggs or milk products…pfew, I do not know how they manage, and the few I know do not look healthy at all to me…

Bill Marsh
October 20, 2010 4:50 am

I think one reason we keep and eat domesticated animals like pigs, sheep, cows, etc is that they are the only means we have to convert the abundant grasses and other plants that we can’t eat and digest into digestible form.
I do tire of the proselytization and ‘holier than thou’ that ‘vegans’ and other vegetarians frequently subject me to. If it works for you fine, consume food that way, it doesn’t work for me and I’m not interested in pursuing it. You don’t see me trying to convince all the vegetarians I meet that they should eat meat.

Chris Edwards
October 20, 2010 4:55 am

I read a study that found vegiterians who died had smaller than expected brains, it says a lot to me! also to eat a ballanced diet without meat is time consuming and expensive. I suspect any health benefits are down to all the bad stuff that is added to our shop bought meat, if we all ate lion caught zeba we would show health advantages over the veggie crowd.

gcb
October 20, 2010 5:03 am

I don’t think anyone’s mentioned it here yet, but I strongly recommend reading the book “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes. Not only does he show fairly convincingly that the Western, high-grain diet is a dumb idea, but he backs it up by providing dozens of references to scientific studies going back years.
Personally, I went paleo a few years back, and both my doctor and I are quite happy with the effects it’s had on both my blood sugars (I’m type-2 diabetic) and my cholesterol . So much for red meat being bad for your cholesterol!

wws
October 20, 2010 5:03 am

We are lucky to have such quality food supplies in America, we all are spoiled. I have realized that there are a lot of countries in this world where I would be a strict vegetarian – like say, Korea. It’s not so much a moral issue, I guess I’m just squeamish.
I don’t want to have to choose between “chicken” and “real chicken” on the Chinese menu.

October 20, 2010 5:04 am

Vegetables are generally high in carbohydrates (sugar), and low in protein.
This is bad news for approx. 10% of the population who are susceptible to Insulin Resistance.
Insulin resistance is a nasty condition which is made worse by the fact it is not obvious what is causing your persistent health problems.
Someone I know, who maintained a vegetarian diet for much of her life, to try to reduce her health problems, broke with vegetarianism on advice from her doctor. Most of the health problems quickly disappeared. Within a year she had conceieved and carried a child to term, and delivered a healthy baby, after many years of babies dying around 12 weeks.
Excess insulin (a side effect of Insulin Resistance), along with all the other problems it causes, for a woman has a particularly nasty consequence – it drastically reduces the risk of conception, and increases the risk of death or injury to unborn babies, through a related condition Polycystic Ovary Syndrome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome
The only cure, for susceptible people, is to eat meat.
But it is difficult to tell if you have Insulin Resistance. There are no overt symptoms, just general tiredness, headaches, health problems – its a really difficult condition to pin down, without a hospital test and a really clued up doctor.
Safer just to include a generous helping of meat in your diet.

Sean Peake
October 20, 2010 5:06 am

So Willis, are you one of those rail riders? I know of a guy from Penn. Who does that.
Anyway, I am a firm believer in veganism. It is because when the end comes, I know where I can find a good source of organic, pesticide-free protien that is easy to catch–they have a good burst of speed but not much stamina 😉

Richard111
October 20, 2010 5:14 am

The human appendix is unable to cope with a vegetarian diet.

sandyinderby
October 20, 2010 5:19 am

I am not sure if wild animals have a perfect life, even without the problems of predators, drought, floods, snow and ice there are diseases and parasites. Most of which are dealt with adequately by farming.
Ticks for instance are the carriers of several diseases/parasites
http://www.thedairysite.com/diseaseinfo/196/babesiosis-redwater-fever
http://www.medicinenet.com/lyme_disease/article.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrlichiosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tularemia

Karen
October 20, 2010 5:20 am

Willis, have you written a book about your travels? Both of those tales are heartwarming and need to be shared with everyone in the world. And I expect you have more stories like these two in your memory banks.
Thanks for sharing them with us today!!!
~Karen
PS. I wanted to scoop those two little boys up and give them a good home, so they didn’t have to scronge for the meat they needed to grow big and strong.

johnnythelowery
October 20, 2010 5:21 am

Are Vegans related to Pastafarians?

October 20, 2010 5:22 am

I don’t care what the vegetarians say, THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY! You can get every needed nutrient your body needs from plants, except one. Vitamin B12. You can only get vitamin B12 from meat. Synthetic multivitamins are not processed well by the body and most of it is removed in the urine. The only reliable way to get the needed nutrients is by food.
I sometimes believe vegans lack the ability to think properly because of their stupid, unhealthy decision to avoid meat.
I’ll give the vegetarians this: Animals raised for meat are far too often treated poorly. If I had my way, every farm animals (cow, chicken, pig, and so forth) would not be allowed to have growth hormones and would be required to raised in a clean environment with plenty of sun.
And we don’t eat fluffy or cute animals because we have had thousands of years to learn what taste good and what doesn’t.