From the Guardian:
It has been said that Obama is the worst president since Jimmy Carter, perhaps now in the eyes of 350.org supporters, he’s “worse than we thought”. Carter was the first to put solar panels on the White House. Being nothing more than an icon, they didn’t last.
And here we have a more recent example of iconic posturing:
350.org “community solanizer” Bill McKibben writes:
Disappointment at the White House, Pride in the Movement
For the last three days, I’ve been sitting at my kitchen table in California cranking out press releases, calling reporters, and generally playing “pit crew” for Bill and our Put Solar On It road trip. It’s been a great ride: tens of thousands of people have shown their support for putting solar back on the White House, the crew had great stops in Boston, New York, and D.C., and we managed to secure a meeting with the Administration to discuss putting solar back on the roof.
As we expected (but secretly hoped wouldn’t be the case), the White House didn’t commit to … well, anything. We tossed them a big, fat soft ball to hit out of the park and they just watched it float on by.
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So much America’s “first green president”. Solar isn’t even mentioned here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/energy-and-environment
The irony, it burns.
UPDATE: some people wrongly got the idea that I hate solar power, which is not the case at all. I put solar on my own home, see the story here.
-Anthony
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While there are a fair number of liberal skeptics (or, as I prefer, Climate Realists) who post comments here, it is undeniable that the denizens of the Left are far more prone to accept the apocalyptic claims of the Climate Alarmists, and far less likely to question their tyrannical, statist ‘solutions’.
Skepticism and conservatism are natural allies.
/Mr Lynn
A couple of “outside the box” ideas:
–A roof in most areas of the country is already a “solar panel”. Make air cavities by applying panel and insulation to the ceiling joists and pump air through for heating house. Not as efficient but the typical surface area is huge and would have to be way cheaper than panels.
–Use air tubing connected to the hot attic space then to a blower through a radiator and water pump to assist in pool heating during spring and fall, or summer too depending on the part of the country that you are in. Helps keep the pool warmer and the attic cooler to save A/C.
To wit, it proved very difficult for Edison to get his inventions into every day life due to conservative skeptical thinking. Just because you are skeptical and conservative, does not always mean you are thinking logically. Those with that combination of beliefs are as prone to stupidity as any other stereotypical group of people. Group think is dangerous no matter what principles form its base.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/lighting/19thcent/comp19.htm
I personally think buildings of historical significance should not be allowed to have their exteriors altered in such a way.
I’m not going to get into a political fracas here — politics and religion are two things that run deep in people. What I do want to mention is the fact that nobody talks about how terribly inefficient solar panels are. Even fewer people talk about the process that goes into making solar panels. Why do the greenies ignore these issues? Producing solar panels is a very un-green process. The higher efficiency solar panels use cadmium or indium, very rare metals. These metals must be mined, do you think that is good for the earth? The less efficient solar panels use silicon, but such solar panels cannot produce enough energy to satisfy our needs. A better use of money would be to improve the efficiency of already existing products while still keeping the more efficient products affordable.
My grandparents lived in a 4300 plus square foot home built to historical standards. They would be (and were) first in line to modernize it. This idiocy we have about living in the past is for the birds. To take this line of reasoning logically, caves should be the building materials most favored. Life back in “historical times” that most people consider to be the “perfect time” to live, was hard, hard, hard, and filled with death. Case in point, the parlor of larger homes was in fact, the funeral parlor.
Here is the bottom line. 30 miles from my house there is a 3 MW solar project being built for 18 million dollars. The output will be about 13% (likely more like 10 or 11%), so it will create 3.4 million kWhrs of electricity per year. If we took a loan out for 18 million dollars at 6.5% for 25 years the payments would be 1.45 millions dollars per year. 1.45/3.4 = 42 cents per kWh, I only pay 11 cents now, yet “so many” have no idea whatsoever that WE are being completely ripped off by this solar plant. WE the people, who will be paying interest on this boondoggle forever. The acres per kHr produced is completely insane. And then there are the transmission lines, cleaning, integration costs, it goes on and on. The 42 cents is likely more like 60 cent per kWh.
A 2 MW wind turbine “only” costs 3 millions dollars and will have an average power of about .5 MW of average/yr. (it’s not 30%, because if you figure out the installed capacity and divide by MW’s produced you only get 25%, but THEY always exaggerate, so the public is duped again thinking average output is >30%). So basically the solar is a little less than 6x more expensive to build than a wind turbine.
3 MW solar = .4 MW output = 18 million dollars
2 MW wind = .5 MW output = 3 million dollars
The only good news with solar is that it produces electricity when we need it, during the day and during the hot summer months. But in reality, it is complete insanity. Another positive for solar, although it destroys the local environment with its’ enormous footprint, it doesn’t detract from the landscape as much as wind, nor does it work better when build on our beautiful, scenic mountaintops. And it doesn’t create and noise or low frequency vibrations, nor does it kills any animals, except for the locals effects while the bulldozers prepare the site!
So this is what the environmentalists want? in fact DEMAND!
Brad says:
“…and tell me again how Obama could be worse than Bush?”
OK, let me count the ways:
click1
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Here is what is real crazy about all this. We have the capital costs for the solar plant at 42 cents/kWh, and we have to add yearly maintenance on that. The payment is 1.42 million dollars per year, you would think maintenance is at least $100,000/year. That is probably low, because you probably need almost 2 full time men, so let’s go with 150K/year which adds another 5 cents/kWhr to yield 47cents/kWh.
But that is only the start. Because the solar plant does not replace any REAL power plant, the only costs savings are in fuel, and that is arguable. Coal costs about 2-4 cents per kWh, while NatGas about 5-8 cents per kWh. So that is all you are “saving” (except dearest Mother Earth of course). So in essence you are paying 47 cents to “save” 2-8 cents or 5 cents average, MEANING Solar is about 10x more expensive than an average of coal and nat gas!!!
Yet, go to theoildrum.com and you will find posts and comments, written by seaminly intelligent people, that state that solar just keeps coming down in price and VERY SOON will be competetive.
Now here is the real problem. Say your electric bill is $130/month. Most people have no understanding that in actuality their household electricity usage is only 1/3 of what they use in actuality. Because in actuality, 1/3 of electricity produced is for residential, 1/3 commercial (stores and building) and 1/3 industrial. We ALL use services and products that are created from electricity. So in reality, your electric bill is not $130/month, it is actually 3 times that or about $400/month. So when people think they are willing to pay a little more for green energy (i have no idea why anyone would want to, and it ain’t green), they are confused, because the GREENIES only talk about “we are the world” when in there interests, but when talking electricity they only talk household, they always leave out the important facts! But who cares, the liberal environmentalists aren’t fact checkers anyway.
Brad says:
September 12, 2010 at 6:04 am
…and tell me again how Obama could be worse than Bush?
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Brad, why in this world do people think that? Being against Obama does not mean that someone is for Bush. That seems to be the lame fall back argument of the liberals.
Anywho, now that Obama has become part of the “elite”, they don’t want solar or windmills where they have to see them…………
Smokey says:
September 12, 2010 at 8:03 am
OK, let me count the ways:
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Smokey, don’t fall for it.
It’s just the latest liberal app.
They are just following their latest drone marching orders.
Encourage them to do more, to everyone else it makes them look
either ignorant or like little drones……
My ride on lawnmower was converted to battery power last summer. It cost $0.24 to mow my lawn ( 3+ hours). The electricity replaced $4.00Cdn of gasoline.
For this summer, I made 45 volts of panels from ebay cells. I haven’t used mains electricity to mow since. The 5 -18 cell panels charge the 36 volt battery pack in a couple of days. I mow for about an hour and a quarter then recharge. In a week I have mowed my yard with free sunshine.
I have ordered a Kei truck to convert to battery. New solar panels are about half done. 126 volts of solar (252 cells) should charge 8 -12 volt batteries enough to get into yhe nearest village, an d the nearest beer store once a week free. Any week that I only take a vehicle out of the yard once is my kind of week. I suceed about half the time.
(8 volts is important because my wind turbine produces 98 volts. The truck battery pack will be incorporated in the household system as an extra emegency supply.
Marge says:
September 12, 2010 at 5:25 am
guess you missed this post:http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/09/another-hockey-stick-meanwhile-the-death-of-light-bulbs/
unemployment dropped during “W”s term. Then Pelosi/Reid took over congress. be ready for another jump in unemployment when the tax breaks expire.
Well, with the Carter billboards popping up asking if we miss his level of competence yet I am not surprised that Obama is being questioned about Carter’s solar panels.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/jimmy-carter-makes-cameo-appearance-in-%E2%80%98miss-me-yet%E2%80%99-billboard-mystery/
I have a hunch that as soon as more people get off the taxed grid, the powers that be will tax the hell outa the free stuff we are using now.
Just compare W’s home to the Goracle’s, and we see who is real and who is not.
My house was built in Carter’s 1977 and it has some stupid features unique to that era (e.g. electric radiant ceiling heating). I have a solar assist hot water system. This is a isolated heat exchange system. Propylene glycol is circulated through 2 large solar panels on the roof via a small pump. There is a heat exchange unit with another small pump connecting potable water to the electric water heater. It works OK but it is expensive and a pain in the neck to service and maintain (which, as it turns out, is pretty much an annual event). Many homes in this area of about the same vintage had these gadgets on their roofs. Most of them have been removed because people grew weary of paying plumbers.
I have a couple PV panels on my roof, too. One 10 watt unit keeps a deep cycle battery in the garage charged up. A larger, 55 watt panel keeps a glass pack deep cycle battery charged ostensibly to power my ham radio equipment in the event of an emergency. Power outages in this area are not as uncommon as they should be. The 55 watt panel, charge controller, battery and misc. wiring and supplies set me back about $600 (and now I have to replace the battery). Solar was fun to play with but is mostly impractical unless you invest some big bucks in it. Then you hope and pray for a pay-off before you have to replace the PV panels.
Finally I got smart. For about $250 I bought a portable 1,500 watt generator. It’s a lot easier keeping a couple of 6 gallon cans of gas around.
heh, well this quickly dropped into the gutter of politics…but I guess it had to 🙁
Right now, the cost of “installation” is outrageous. The cost of the actual panels are getting down into the $1.00/watt, range. It won’t be too awful long before a 3 Megawatt plant like the one nofreewind is describing will come in in the range of $3.5 Million. At that point it’s a whole new ball game.
Probably within ten years we’ll have Tens of Thousands of young guys with electrician’s licenses driving around in pickup trucks with “solar installed – cheap” signs on the door.
Right now, we’re just paying for the “initiation.”
Solar PVs have an EROEI of 0.48 . They are unsustainable.
Wind power is worse with an EROEI of 0.29 .
This is a major blow to green activists who were promised a lot at the start of his campaign. A bad move by him who will no doubt be voted out next term.
Just to clarify for our non-U.S. readers. Although G.W. Bush was President until 2008, Congress changed hands in 2006 to become controlled by the Democrats. A fact liberal Democrats often forget to mention when they speak of “inheriting a bad economy”. The usual consequences of a Congress controlled by the Democrats is that investors and big business start to cut back investing and growth knowing all too well that their taxes are going up and more distribution of wealth policies on on their way. Fortunately our Founding Fathers made sure we have congressional elections every two years.
Anyone who says that must have been sleeping during the terms of George W. Bush. Two recessions, devastating attacks on our soil, a mess in Afghanistan, unnecessary invasion and bungled occupation of Iraq, global banking meltdown, virtually no net job creation………and someone thinks Carter (or Obama) was bad, in comparison?
…and tell me again how Obama could be worse than Bush? Two wars, tax cuts for the only the richest in the country, and an economy in the tank because Bush let Wall Street ruin the economy…what was that about Obama again?
Maybe because Dubya really couldn’t be trusted without adult supervision… i.e., the real ‘Decider’, Dick Cheney.
Former Republican United States Senator from Texas Phil Gramm / Graham (disambiguation)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm?wasRedirected=true
http://www.google.com/m?q=foreclosure+Phil+Gramm
http://www.google.com/m?q=phil+graham+derivatives&ei=Hqh6TLjnD6DENMqEjrIC&ved=0CB8Q1QIoAQ
In all fairness, that should read: a former democrat and a former republican with a new career as a lobbyist for the financial industry, Phil Gramm.
Benedict Arnold? Anybody?
Tom in Florida says:
September 12, 2010 at 10:58 am
Just to clarify for our non-U.S. readers. Although G.W. Bush was President until 2008, Congress changed hands in 2006 to become controlled by the Democrats. A fact liberal Democrats often forget to mention when they speak of “inheriting a bad economy”.
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Tom they do the same thing when talking about Clinton.
Clinton, just like our president now, botched up his first two years so badly,
republicans took over both houses.
With republicans running the show, and also first in line to take any blame,
Clinton, being the political prostitute he is, played along.
It isn’t just the solar panels …
John McManus says:
“My ride on lawnmower was converted to battery power last summer. It cost $0.24 to mow my lawn ( 3+ hours). The electricity replaced $4.00Cdn of gasoline. ”
It doesn’t look like you have factored in the cost of your electric motor(s), The batteries, which I assume are Pb-Acid and won’t last forever, or the man hours involved with engineering and executing the conversion of your lawm tractor. Doesn’t seem like a cost effective proposition for the average Joe. Also you better hope you have enough sunny days or your lawn will soon be overgrown.