Where I live on the outskirts of Chico, I have an almost constant supply of wind. I’ve considered a wind turbine as a way of getting closer to being “off-grid” so that I don’t have to pay PG&E the exorbitant rates. After reading this ChicoER story, I think I’ll pass on a wind turbine and focus on more solar. – Anthony
From the Chico Enterprise-Record: Disturbing the silence: Wind turbine not sustaining to neighbors’ sleep
By HEATHER HACKING – ChicoER Staff Writer
CHICO — A year and a half ago when Don Steinsiek installed a wind turbine at the top of Stilson Canyon Road, he was excited to harness the wind.He had been interested in the technology for a while, and when tax credits and rebates became available, he went for it.
The wind will vary, but he figured with the incentives, he could pay off his $82,000 investment in six or seven years.
When energy generation is greater than his use, he can sell electricity to the grid for 5 cents a kilowatt. But overall, he said the turbine provides energy for about two-thirds of his energy use.
It sounded like a good plan, and fit with the trend toward renewable energy sources. But neighbors say the wind turbine ruins the quiet nature of the neighborhood, lowers their property values and deprives them of sleep.
At Tuesday’s Board of Supervisors meeting there was a lengthy discussion of Steinsiek’s turbine.
The state is passing new rules that will make it easier to install small wind structures, explained Tim Snellings, county development services director. Unless Butte County passes its own rules before Dec. 31, the new state rules will apply, he continued.
Neighbors took the opportunity to talk about the wind turbine.
O.J. Sutherland lives at the bottom of the hill from the turbine. He described the sound as similar to a “hovering helicopter to a whining or moaning sound.”
He told the supervisors some neighbors have changed the rooms in which they sleep, others wear earplugs and some just can’t sleep.”We no longer have a quiet neighborhood. There is only one acceptable relief — to remove it,” Sutherland said.
Farther down the road is Gary Marquis, who said for 20 years he has heard frogs and crickets. “Now I listen to a wind turbine,” he said.
Read the full story here at the ChicoER
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I experienced this-
“She reports also that all adult subjects reported “feeling jittery inside” or “internal quivering”, often accompanied by anxiety, fearfulness,”
From Pierpont as quoted in Dr Hanning’s paper. This was in a large office about 1km from a 2MW wind turbine, and it’s a very odd sensation. First time I wasn’t sure what it was, or if I was imagining it but saw ripple patterns in a coffee cup I had on my desk. Not everyone in the office could feel it either. Initially I thought our gennies had kicked in, but those weren’t running. After it happened a few times, it seemed to be when we where directly downwind from the turbine and dependent on the wind speed. The office was square on then and assuming resonating due to the disturbed air as the effects were less noticeable outside the building.
I certainly don’t agree that there are no effects and think a lot more research needs to be conducted, not just on human and wildlife effects from low frequency vibrations, but also for potential property damage, and risks to things like pipe and cable joints.
I like wind turbines. That said, it is abundantly clear that they do not operate very well on a utility scale. I think that ultimately they will be relegated to isolated installations. They would be wonderful serving a small community out in the desert or on an isolated island. They would probably be just fine in Puerto Rico where the power is very intermittent anyway.
Elizabeth says:
July 15, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Soon, in my opinion, the same government who is now pushing green technology on the american consumer, will be enacting laws to prevent consumers from setting up solar systems (or wind, etc) unless they are 100% off grid systems.
Absolutely, the addition of solar just adds to the cocktail of problems for the grid. Obviously, the negative points to make about this are legion and I was only referring to the impact on thermal power plants that have historically always been ‘load following’ but now will be forced to do it in an extreme way… a comparison might to look at the speed trend of a car following right behind a big truck on a freeway that has very little traffic on it versus the speed trend of me following my son when we are off road biking on terrain that has both steep inclines, steep declines and flat spots on it. The first trend is relatively flat but the second is as jagged as a shark’s tooth line.
One related issue that I can’t believe doesn’t seem to come up all that often is that the grid itself has to have fully coordinated integration of all the generation sources with respect to the 60 Hz waveform for AC power. When it was all major power plants with sophisticated equipment, this wasn’t a big deal to make sure that the addition of power on to the grid was properly integrated. But what about when all these thousands and thousands of small generating sources are inputted into the grid? How is electrical phase coordination being handled, how reliable is it and what are the consequences if a number of generators start inputting power on to the grid which is electrically not in phase? The electrical side of this issue is not something that I can claim experience in but it would seem logical that this is an area that has the potential for very serious problems to the grid.
Incidentally, as a result of simply being too close to the action on this issue (some of my major clients are electrical generators), I am already taking my steps to protect myself and this means that I’m going totally off grid. My reasoning is very simple…. I believe that the future of the grid is bleak and my prediction is that it will become increasingly unreliable in the coming years (one other issue is that it has become stretched beyond the capacity intended when it was built). Being off grid at least puts the reliability of power supply under my own domain as opposed to those that are trying to deal with all these unrealistic demands that are being forced upon them – mostly by politicans who are pandering to the envirowackos.
I’m sure that many on this site have seen the video of the large utility wind turbine that blew up and took down its tower… I think it was in Denmark. Bits and pieces were found enormous distances away and as a mechanical engineer, I can’t believe that there aren’t better regs in place as far as separation distances between ‘people and machines’. Clearly, the minimum distances should relate to size and generation capacity metrics but in my view, for property owners in areas where consideration is being given to installing large wind turbines, I would be fighting tooth and nail for a minimum separation distance of 5 miles….and not one foot less.
Steve in SC says:
July 16, 2010 at 5:48 am
I like wind turbines. That said, it is abundantly clear that they do not operate very well on a utility scale. I think that ultimately they will be relegated to isolated installations. They would be wonderful serving a small community out in the desert or on an isolated island. They would probably be just fine in Puerto Rico where the power is very intermittent anyway.
Steve,
It is my considered opinion that said ‘wind turbines’ would work wonderfully well around Washington, D.C., and likely as well around just every state capitol too!
You know, all that hot air and all?
Just say’n …
😉
vern says:
July 16, 2010 at 6:31 am
I’m sure that many on this site have seen the video of the large utility wind turbine that blew up and took down its tower… I think it was in Denmark.
I had never seen it — very dramatic!
Okay, apparently I don’t know how to properly embed a video. You can see it here:
I’ve been all over Indiana and the length of Illinois recently, I thing I saw four of those ugly bird killers actually rotating.
What a waste
Brad aka 1personofdifference says: “Anthony, You might want to reconsider Solar as well. After spending 10 million on a solar panel array on his Nashville mansion, Gore’s public energy use was another 10,000 KW more than the 250,000 that caused him grief the year before.”
Do you have a source for these numbers? 10 million on a solar outfit seems extreme. To be sure, Gore’s place is a tad more exorbitant than our little pad, but I can’t figure out why he would need that much solar and, more so, how this set-up would not be sufficient for his energy needs.
We spent less than 50K on our system and it is a large off-grid system. It serves us well, particularly in the summer months where sunlight hours extend to 12 hours average, peaking at 15 hours in late June. Winter is a bit more of a challenge, but currently we have more electricity than we can use.
vern says:
July 16, 2010 at 6:23 am
…the grid itself has to have fully coordinated integration of all the generation sources with respect to the 60 Hz waveform for AC power. When it was all major power plants with sophisticated equipment, this wasn’t a big deal …But what about when all these thousands and thousands of small generating sources are inputted into the grid? …what are the consequences if a number of generators start inputting power on to the grid which is electrically not in phase? …this is an area that has the potential for very serious problems to the grid.
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I agree. When I was at school someone fed the output from a signal generator back into the mains, which took out the local sub-station. I’m not sure how it had enough beef to do that, even through the step-up auto-transformer I think they used, but there it is. Maybe the phase factor was already out of wack and this took it over the edge.
Elizabeth says:
July 16, 2010 at 9:37 am
Brad aka 1personofdifference says: “Anthony, You might want to reconsider Solar as well. After spending 10 million on a solar panel array on his Nashville mansion, Gore’s public energy use was another 10,000 KW more than the 250,000 that caused him grief the year before.”
Do you have a source for these numbers? 10 million on a solar outfit seems extreme. To be sure, Gore’s place is a tad more exorbitant than our little pad, but I can’t figure out why he would need that much solar and, more so, how this set-up would not be sufficient for his energy needs.
We spent less than 50K on our system and it is a large off-grid system. It serves us well, particularly in the summer months where sunlight hours extend to 12 hours average, peaking at 15 hours in late June. Winter is a bit more of a challenge, but currently we have more electricity than we can use.
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Keep in mind this is a man who spent over 30k for a homes power consumption and expended enough energy to power 2500 homes for a month.
His mansion is almost as big as some state capitals, there are offices for staff and family and everything else you’d expect for an austentatious pompous windbag like Al “The Baptist” Gore.
I suppose I should have given the caveat that the 10mil wasn’t just towards the solar system it was towards a state of the art electronic control system that controls when the panels track the movements of the sun, when power turns on and off, the IT staff that it takes to maintain the system, and it controls all electrical devices from any pc in the home (mansion).
All this information is readily found by googling. The state of Tennessee advertises his expenses regulary under FOI and Tennessee hates him with a passion and they are always showing what a complete gasbag and hypocrit he is.
899 i’m not sure about chewing on laundary but I thought the part about being Anthony’s assistant and rowing the bike to provide electricity for his laptop so he can maintain WUWT would be pretty cool.
I mean what an honor.
🙂
Karl Maki says:
July 15, 2010 at 7:17 pm
In Great Britain they are actually paying windmill owners to not generate electricity. It seems they produce most reliably at night when the grid cannot take their output because there is far less demand.
They subsidize their construction and then pay for non-production. Brilliant!
Same thing happens in ERCOT and the midwest (especially IL)… power prices are sometimes negative meaning there is too much generation. As another reader noted, wind is rated anywhere from 5-30% of installed capacity and often the wind blows at night when it is least needed.
Wind would not be viable without existing tax subsidies (investment tax credits) and (in some states) renewable energy credits and requirements that a certain % of power be supplied from wind.
@Brad aka 1personofdifference (July 16, 2010 at 5:18 pm post): Thanks for that. I did google this, but did not come up with any specific numbers associated with the cost of this solar system. I found an article on Snopes discussing the installation of their solar system and, at the same time, a rainwater collection system and geothermal. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp). I still fail to see how all of this would add up to $10 million, even with the cost of annual maintenance and staff. Moreover, it defies logic why someone would pay out this kind of money with no long-term pay-off. It would seem that publicity would come at a cheaper price.
That said, I completely agree the man is a hypocrite. Quoting the Snopes article: “… they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power. They also use compact flourescent bulbs and other energy efficient measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero.”
This supports what I’ve been saying all along. These carbon trading schemes are designed to drive the average person further into debt (as essential services will be all that they can afford) while the elite classes will continue to live however they choose because they can afford it (in carbon offsets).
Al Gore exudes a pretense of environmental responsibility whilst consuming way more than the average North American. The Gores, “purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero.” Purchase offsets from where? Their own company?
Gore makes a better businessman than ambassador. Anyone who can’t see this is either witless or naive.
[snip]
Harry Eagar says:
July 15, 2010 at 11:08 pm
This guy is spending in the neighborhood of ten figures annually for electricity for a house?
Is he growing weed in the basement or something? I pay the highest electricity rates in the country, use energy-hogging appliances and I can barely drive my monthly bill to $250. I don’t need air conditioning, but even if I did, I could hardly double the bill.
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Depends on the area and the price per KW. In 1979 I had a small one bedroom in northeastern MA and it cost me over three hundred a month in electric for just one person. No A/C, no washer/dryer, no dishwasher, no TV, no computer. The blasted electric bill was the same as my rent!
HankHenry says:
In the movie Dog of Flanders the villain is killed when he absentmindedly walks into the path of an oncoming windmill vane. The same thing happened in real life at a reconstructed windmill in Fulton Illinois – except the guy was only seriously injured. I have to think that the same happens to birds and bats from time to time.
The main source of unavoidable “noise” with a “normal” wind turbine is the blade-passing frequency with respect to the tower. This produces an ambient pressure pulse that is also transmitted via the ground through the tower’s footings.
Other aerodynamic nose is chiefly from the blade geometry relative to the direction of wind. The blades are designed to achieve maximum “lift”, resulting in the highest possible torque at the hub. Maximum lift means maximum pressure difference. That pressure difference diminishes towards the tip of the blades where the “pressure spill” at the end produces an end-vortex.
A “winglet” does little more than to move the vortex and reducing it slightly as it functions as an extension of the “wing”. However; the winglet typically restricts the spilling of air off the low-pressure side of the section near the end, which reduces lift and therefore torque at the hub. If the winglet were instead to be mounted “upside-down” so as to crank “down” to the high-pressure side, then the lift would not be substantially impaired and vortex-generating flow would still be at the tip of the winglet.
Winglets and trailing edges could be Engineered to minimise psycho-acoustic impact. Blade-passing past the tower remains the main problem.
Similarly, other mechanical noises can be Engineered for a minimum at the source, and the transmission to resonant/radiating surfaces minimised. But the industry is too busy raking in subsidies to manufacture instead of only having tangible R&D subsidised.
alGore says they are required for carbon free energy by 2015.
It takes 1,350 tons of coal to run thru the furnace to make 850 ton tower.
It takes about that much energy from petroleum to create the steel and concrete base.
The nacelle is 56 tons. Fiberglass reinforced PLASTIC from oil.
alGore can lie all day long and any engineer can show his false claims.
The steel for the massive cranes and the huge trucks to haul the pieces to the site are carbon intense.
Someone mentioned noise can be reduced by decreasing rpm on the turbines. Please do the math. The velocity of the tip of the blade is over 100 mph when the rpm is not very high.
(takes little energy for my throw away solar calculator to tell me these wind projects have millions of tons CO2 in the footprint on the front end)