Perfect place for a thermometer in Oz

I’m in Townsville, Queensland, Australia (a rather tropical place) on a speaking tour, and as I walked up to my hotel room I felt a wave of heat, and some stale water smell. My trusty guide, Nigel, pointed to the reason and said: “Perfect place for a thermometer, eh mate”?

The population explosion of a/c heat exchangers was a sight to behold.

Last night’s talk in Sydney went well. My thanks to all who attended. Meanwhile in Victoria, ski season opens and The Age says:

”It hasn’t got warmer than minus 3 for at least the last week,” she said. ”That’s pretty cold for Australia – there’s no sign of climate change around here right now.”

It was a tough gig last night in Sydney, not because the audience was tough, but because I’m competing with a 3 day holiday weekend, plus some world cup soccer. I can imagine the choice is easy for some. “Do I want to hear some bloke wail on about the problems with weather stations in the world or watch soccer on holiday with no work tomorrow?”

That’s why I’m doubly appreciative of the many people who came to seem Professor Tim Curtin, David Archibald, and myself speak about climate issues.

For a write up on the evening, see the story by Richard Fernandez at Pajamas Media Belmont Club and also at Twaki.

The most stunning thing I’ve learned here so far?

You have to have a permit to photograph in a National Park and then publish the photograph for any commercial purpose.

Apparently there’s 12 pages of law on it.

Here’s some of it:

The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Regulations 2000 (Cth) on photographers who take and commercialise photographs of Commonwealth reserves.

A Commonwealth reserve is defined as one proclaimed by the Governor-General and includes places such as

Kakadu National Park, Uluru–Kata Tjuta National Park, Booderee National Park, Australian National Botanic

Gardens, Christmas Island National Park, Pulu Keeling National Park, Norfolk Island National Park and Commonwealth Marine Parks and Reserves.

To take photographs in a Commonwealth reserve for commercial purposes, a photographer should:

• Contact the Commonwealth reserve and obtain a permit to take photographs for commercial purposes by

paying the specified fee and entering into a Location Agreement; and

• Abide by the conditions imposed upon commercial photographers in the reserve by the Director.

If a photographer breaches a Location Agreement (or does not enter into one), a ranger or warden may require

him or her to hand over all copies of any photographs taken and any camera or other device used to take them.

For further information, contact the National Park you wish to visit. You can also contact the Commonwealth

Department of Environment and Heritage by phone 02 6274 1111 or see the website:

http://www.deh.gov.au/parks/index.html.

Oz and it’s people have been amazing, but I really can’t get behind a government that would trample the right of photographic art from people like Ansel Adams.

http://www.anseladams.com/ProductImages/seps/05010125.jpg

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78 thoughts on “Perfect place for a thermometer in Oz

  1. Hi Anthony,
    Sorry I missed your talk in Sydney – yes, I was one of those who were out of town for the week-end – visiting national parks and probably taking photographs – though as they are unlikely to have any commercial value I think I’m OK. I had no idea of the law regulating photography in the National Parks and I would think that that goes for most Aussies – it is probably one of those laws that no-one sees the point of and is generally ignored – we have a proud tradition – going back two centuries- of ignoring laws that are considered inconvenient – it keeps the pollies happy passing them.
    Keep up the missionary work! Of course there has not been a mention of your visit on our government-funded broadcaster.

  2. Fancy giving a talk on the queens birthday weekend in queensland?
    You’d have to be bonkers mate!
    Yes, queen’s birthday down in Melbourne has nothing to do with the queen (its not her birthday) but much to do with the beginning of the winter and the ski season.
    And yes, lovely love snow came floating down on the hills this last week.
    (Not in the same article the coda from the BoM about warm oceans…so dont get too excit just yet folks)
    Looking forward to catching you down here Anthony, that is, if you can be pursuaded to leave tropical Townsville for cold and rainy Melbourne.

  3. Aye, ya gotta have a permit to breathe in this country…. or you soon will have.
    …… anyway if you think permits for national park happy snaps are tough…. Imagine the rigmarole a poor fisherman has to go through to commercially fish in one!!!…. I used to commercial fish in North Queensland, the home of the Great Barrier Reef…. Note the emphasis is on the Used To.
    This country is already a tyranny of big government. That is why this ETS and RSPT is so dangerous for us…. We tremble upon the precipice.

  4. ETS = Emissions Trading Scheme.
    RSPT = Resources Super Profits Tax.
    Australian Government can’t run unless it acronym’s everything….. apparently;-)

  5. A permit to take photos……sheesh and I thought that the new wave PC and nanny state brigade was bad here in NZ, but the Ockers have beaten us on that one.

  6. Some time ago I called and emailed the Nat Parks to try to obtain a permit. I couldn’t even get a response from these lazy bureaucratic w*****s.

  7. LOL. I also ignored the rule.
    Brits like to do the same. They increasingly destroy civil rights in order to protect them. You really have to sit down and have a drink with one of these people, be they Brit or Aussie to grasp the sheer insanity. I was once on a bus in Sydney that was boarded by 5 armed law enforcement officers that demanded to see the receipt of every passenger. Two armed cops stayed outside, apparently to shoot scofflaws. One poor guy had used a bus pass that was apparently electronically irregular. That caused a Swat team to move into action. Insanity.

  8. Probably to protect the livelihood of professional photographers who have contracts with the govt allowing them sole rights to reproduce photos. Ignore it.
    See you in Emerald on Saturday!
    Ken

  9. If a photographer breaches a Location Agreement (or does not enter into one), a ranger or warden may require him or her to hand over all copies of any photographs taken and any camera or other device used to take them. . . .
    Oz and it’s people have been amazing, but I really can’t get behind a government that would trample the right of photographic art from people like Ansel Adams.

    I can just see a park ranger trying to confiscate one of Ansel Adams’ $5 figure view cameras. Ansel was a true conservationist, i.e., pro nuke power.
    If you guys stick hang around Oz long enough, you can hit the World Science Fiction Convention in Melbourne this September. There’s sure to be a panel discussion on Global Warming. All the previous panels have been stuffed with AGW types. (It is a science fiction convention, after all.)

  10. Welcome to Australia Anthony. I’m sure your calm and reasonable approach will win many hearts and minds. Be warned however about the ABC, many of the presenters are totally upfront about their belief in AGW and they take a disdainful condescending tone with anyone who doesn’t…believe.
    I think that the extreme nature of climate here plays into the hands of the scare-mongers, there are apparently endless droughts in many parts of the country and of course this was used as confirmation of climate change… until the drought broke just recently and the rivers filled up and the plains turned green…much to the dismay and confusion of the doomsters!
    Oh and while I’m at it, here’s one absolute absurdity that one encounters all the time. Government Ministers groping for ways to limit our emission, with cap’n trade or whatever. Why doesn’t someone point out that if they’re really serious about limiting emissions, that the best thing might be NOT to export a BILLION tonnes of coal every year! The hypocrisy of the establishment is monumental.
    And I think like the BBC in the UK the ABC pension fund might be tied up in wind-farm/carbon capture type investments…
    Enjoy this great country and keep up the good work.

  11. Anthony,
    It was great to meet you in person last night. While I did say that I believed you were winning, with number of people wanting to talk with you I did not get to thank you for your hard work. I sincerely appreciate the effort you have put into WUWT. I can see the results spreading around the world. One only has to look at comments posted online in response to main steam media articles on climate to see the effect sites like yours are having. Skeptical commentators have a level of understanding of the scientific detail of the climate debate that cannot be obtained from the MSM. You and your hard working moderators and contributors have changed the world. Thank you.

  12. National Parks over here require permits for any commercial work within them, photography gets lumped in with commercial tour guides etc and has done for ages. The main problem is that National Parks are under funded so they look for any revenue stream no matter how small it is. Much of their finding gets swallowed up by bureacracy.

  13. Hi All, I live in Victoria, Australia (that’s in the southern colder bit), we have snow, up in the mountains, for the long weekend. A lot of it is man-made on the ski runs, and they even use recycled water, so it’s really man-made, how cool! We are not primitive in laws and like to consider ourselves a civilised mob with good civil rights. It’ll be cold when you get to Ballarat, Anthony, but it’s been a few years since we had any real snow. Don’t forget to visit the weather station at the Ballarat Airport.
    Gotta throw a log on the fire…

  14. I was planning on coming to see you, but the missus was crook, so my leave pass was cancelled.
    As for the photo permit, just tell them to go to buggery. No one in their right mind takes that sort of bureaucracy seriously.

  15. Anthony mentions the ski season – I wonder how the snow cover on the Australian Alps is trending?
    http://www.holtonweather.com/article2.htm
    As Nicholls 2005 says http://www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/2005/nicholls1.pdf
    Maximum winter snow depth at Spencers Creek in the Snowy
    Mountains of southeastern Australia has decreased somewhat
    since 1962, but the snow depth in spring has declined strongly
    (by about 40 per cent). The stronger decrease in spring
    snow depth is largely attributable to warming during July-
    September. The slight decline in precipitation that has been
    observed during this season is too weak to account for the
    decline in snow depth. Interannual variations in regional surface
    air pressure are closely related to snow depth, but there
    is only a weak trend in pressure and this trend is insufficient
    to account for the decline in spring snow depth. Thus the
    warming that is the proximate cause of the decline in spring
    snow depth is not simply reflecting a change in the synoptic
    patterns. In the light of recent studies implicating the
    enhanced greenhouse effect in the warming trend over
    Australia, the results of this study suggest that the Australian
    alpine region may already be experiencing significant effects
    of greenhouse climate change.
    Maybe a heat island?

  16. Four years ago, I was threatened with arrest by a wharf Gendarme in a French port for taking photographs of a roll-on-roll-off cross-chanell ferry loading in the dark. Fortunately, the gendarme put it in the too-hard basket when he found I was just a stupide touriste from New Zealand. According to him, I needed a letter from the Mayor to get a permit from the Harbourmaster which I had to show the Gendarme and his colleagues to take photographs.
    “Everyone knows that, non?”
    Similarly, the Metropolitan police will arrest anyone taking photographs in London if said police take objection to a photographer shooting pics of public buildings or railroad stations, etc, under the anti-terrorism laws. It is also unlawful to photograph a policeman or a member of the Armed Forces in the course of their duties.

  17. The Australians who missed you for the football last night will be regretting it.
    Germany 4 Australia 0

  18. Australia:
    The place where Police are always armed and the citizens almost never.
    It used to be the reverse in New Zealand, but it’s now moved a little towards the Australian model, but in general NZ Police are unarmed and the citizenry can carry out their sporting pursuits reasonably freely.

  19. We don’t need a permit to take photographs in the UK, thank goodness, but we do have our own problems with regard to being a photographer in a public place. In the space of a decade the UK has become the most oppressive environment imaginable for freedom of expression. http://photographernotaterrorist.org/

  20. “… the results of this study suggest that the Australian alpine region may already be experiencing significant effects of greenhouse climate change.”
    Ha ha ha, what a load of crap, Luke. It says nothing of the sort.
    Time for your next group at the kiddy amusement park.

  21. Hi Anthony, nice to meet you in Sydney last night. When I left (I think you were just in front of me) I turned on the car radio. It was on the ABC and this was on. Ironical.
    http://www.abc.net.au/rn/sundayprofile/stories/2010/2925073.htm
    “Honeymooners the world over love to head to the Maldives — the island pearls in the Indian Ocean. But some of the white sand islands might soon be buttressed with concrete, as rising sea levels force the Maldivian president, Mohamed Nasheed, to take drastic action. He’s calling on developed nations to make deep cuts to carbon emissions”.

  22. @Stepehen

    “Claims such as ‘2,500 of the world’s leading scientists have reached a consensus that human activities are having a significant influence on the climate’ are disingenuous,” the paper states unambiguously, adding that they rendered “the IPCC vulnerable to outside criticism.”
    Hulme, Professor of Climate Change in the School of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia

    There’s our likely leaker… 🙂

  23. The Australian government is just getting started. It has announced plans to have ISPs keep a record of ALL Internet usage by its customers in case the police need it for an investigation.
    From regulating carbon to this, it’s a wonder we won’t all be outfitted with government-mandated GPS.

  24. Steady, fellas, Yanks are very impressionable — don’t want Anthony going away wondering where the hell he’d just been:

    “Australian history …..does not read like history, but like the most beautiful lies; and all of a fresh new sort, no mouldy old stale ones. It is full of surprises and adventures, and incongruities, and contradictions, and incredibilities; but they are all true, they all happened.”

    Mark Twain from “More Tramps Abroad” (1897)

  25. PeterW says:
    June 14, 2010 at 3:39 am
    “… the results of this study suggest that the Australian alpine region may already be experiencing significant effects of greenhouse climate change.”
    Ha ha ha, what a load of crap, Luke. It says nothing of the sort.
    Time for your next group at the kiddy amusement park.

    You did read the PDF, didn’t you?

  26. @Alexander K But is perfectly fine for them to mount a CCTV on every light pole, dog dropping and fire hydrant to keep an eye on you. O well, or perhaps more appropriately Orwell.

  27. Anthony, I agree. It is a shame we have increasingly modelled ourselves (Aussies) on the US litigious model. But the reality remains – most Aussies simply ignore that crap and do “the right thing”. We are pretty minimalist when it comes to camping. I have been to Yosemite several times. And the sad thing (not seen in your lovely Ansell Adams photo) is the number of RVs and generators sets, and satellite dishes watching the Super Bowl that are omnipresent.
    Pleased to have you in town. And thanks for your great works.

  28. About photos in national parks –
    The same regulations apply in U.S. national parks – including Yosemite.
    Like wise for national parks in Canada and Europe.
    (Also developing nations that often use western consultants for park rules)
    It’s part of the attempts by park services to maximise revenue in a tight fiscal situation.
    Since commercial images of parks have value – the park services wish to obtain part of that value.
    We live in a different world that that inhabited by Ansel Adams.

  29. @Luke, June 14, 2010 at 2:13 am
    ‘Maybe a heat island?’
    Most likely culprit is weather lol, what with the precipitation in Australia seem to be on an up slope since 1900.
    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/rain.shtml
    Rain has to go somewhere. If the storm clouds get so heavy they can’t make it over the first mountain range, river’ll flood down stream. If they’re too light they get over your ridge with too much ease, and you get a very dry season. Add to this man made river lakes, all dammed up, which more warm water when you got more water.

  30. You have to have a permit to photograph in a National Park and then publish the photograph for any commercial purpose.
    I can almost see a politician’s view on this, in some twisted manner. The land belongs to “the people” (governemnt) and by that right, you have to pay “the people” for the priviledge to take pictures. If you take a picture of me, and want to use it for a commercial purpose, you have to pay me.

  31. PeterW says:
    June 14, 2010 at 3:39 am
    “… the results of this study suggest that the Australian alpine region may already be experiencing significant effects of greenhouse climate change.”
    Ha ha ha, what a load of crap, Luke. It says nothing of the sort.”
    You’re kidding, right? It’s an exact quote from the PDF!
    http://www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/2005/nicholls1.pdf

  32. A note from Joanne Nova’s blog (comment by Mattb #81) that the believers are running a session at UWA (Perth) the evening before your presentation in the very same location.

    28 June 2010, University of Western Australia
    (Social Sciences Lecture Theatre, 6.00-7.30pm)
    Are you concerned about climate change? Are you concerned by the current debate that seems to call into question climate science? Are there reasons to doubt what scientists are predicting?
    This 90-minute event will present 4 brief talks by UWA scientists who are experts in various aspects of climate change, followed by an opportunity to ask questions of the speakers and discuss the issues with a panel of experts.
    Speakers (10-15 minutes each)
    Consensus in science: what does it mean? The perils of ignoring consensus: Prof Stephan Lewandowsky (School of Psychology, UWA)
    Time for accountability: Denialist fallacies and “skeptical” junk science: Prof Kevin Judd (School of Mathematics and Statistics, UWA)
    The scientific consensus: Data from a warming planet: Prof Malcolm McCulloch, FRS (School of Earth Sciences, UWA)
    The way forward: Towards economic growth in a clean-energy future: Dr Volker Oschmann (School of Law, UWA, and German Federal Ministry for the Environment)

    It’s a shame that you’ll be in Narrogin at the same time. Maybe some infidels will pose probing questions to Lewandowsky et. al.

  33. I know now why aussies lost against germany 0 to 4 in south africa. They sent a “model team”.

  34. You take landscape photography and you have to pay? Just who does this country belong to? I’ve given up hope on the UK but I thought the flame of freedom still burned bright in our one time English speaking colonies. No, this is not a put down. I always thought Oz, NZ and Canada were the best of our works and even the good ol’ US. C’mon Ozzies, time to fix bayonets and advance on central govt.

  35. “Jerry says:
    June 14, 2010 at 2:48 am
    Australia:
    The place where Police are always armed and the citizens almost never.
    It used to be the reverse in New Zealand, but it’s now moved a little towards the Australian model, but in general NZ Police are unarmed and the citizenry can carry out their sporting pursuits reasonably freely.”
    One word, Lillybing!

  36. “Grumpy Old Man says:
    June 14, 2010 at 9:46 am
    You take landscape photography and you have to pay? Just who does this country belong to? I’ve given up hope on the UK but I thought the flame of freedom still burned bright in our one time English speaking colonies. No, this is not a put down. I always thought Oz, NZ and Canada were the best of our works and even the good ol’ US. C’mon Ozzies, time to fix bayonets and advance on central govt.”
    Unfortunately, Aus, and NZ, are becoming the prime no-fun nanny-state candidate countries. If ever there was a stupid “law passed’ it was passed in Aus/NZ first, trust me. Examaple; you can be fined AU$5,000 or 12 months in clinck, for having…..wait for it….wait for it…..washing hanging out on your balcony in a strata managed building. Yeah! Hanging washing out can send you to jail in Australia.

  37. Back in the 1968 I remember you had a government that sent youngsters to retirement and to the beaches. That situation got to be changed, now you can do the same to stop warm madness.

  38. I thought your picture of the air conditioners in Townsville did turn out nicely, though.

  39. Mr Lynn, thank you for that link — I’ve sent it along to my warminesta Senator as a more enviromentally friendly than windmills form of alternate energy. Maybe humor will work where logic doesn’t.

  40. John Egan Said:
    >About photos in national parks –
    >The same regulations apply in U.S. national parks – including Yosemite.
    >Like wise for national parks in Canada and Europe.
    >(Also developing nations that often use western consultants for park rules)
    >It’s part of the attempts by park services to maximise revenue in a tight fiscal >situation.
    >Since commercial images of parks have value – the park services wish to obtain part >of that value.
    >We live in a different world that that inhabited by Ansel Adams.
    This is untrue, the National Park Service regulations are perfectly sensible. You can take all the landscape photos you want, it’s only when you want to go out of the ordinary that you need a permit, like having a model shoot with props and sets, or getting access to someplace the public doesn’t get access to, or getting after hours access someplace that’s not open the whole time. If you are just taking photos like any other member of the public, you don’t need any permit, whether it’s for commercial use or not.
    The California regulations on the other hand are blatantly unconstitutional, and I doubt they would stand up in Federal court, if they even tried to enforce them on a photographer indistinguishable from the general public.

  41. In Zambia the Parks and Wildlife people encourage you to take lots of photos; if there are some good ones they ask for a copy for their use and they give attribution if they use it. No money changes hands.
    That’s ‘Tourism’.
    I think that it’s the same in the Republic of South Africa. I wouldn’t like to vouch for anything in Zimbabwe

  42. Yeah well be careful while you’re in Queensland, we’re a bit of a nanny state. If you’re going for a bbq in a public place in Queensland don’t have a beer as that is illegal too. You might get tasered.

  43. Marge says
    “Ha ha ha, what a load of crap, Luke. It says nothing of the sort.”
    You’re kidding, right? It’s an exact quote from the PDF!” ……
    Marge I’m sorry some facts from Australia’s best researchers offends you. And yes was a direct quote from the PDF abstract – you see in science there’s this thing called referencing …. perhaps might considering looking at some journal papers to get the idea of how it works.

  44. Once again local conditions–re -3 degrees somewhere–rule perceptions. Here, around the greater Adelaide metropolitan area, temperatures have for many months significantly exceeded long-term averages. There’s nothing to be made of that except to wonder why it is so (and since politics have destroyed the integrity of ‘climate change’ it won’t be that). Nobody claiming to be a scientist apparently takes the least interest in doing so. Indeed, climate science like most others appears, like so much else, to have all the integrity of John Cleese’s parrot.

  45. Hi Anthony
    I enjoyed the lecture and and appreciate you coming here for this all too brief tour. I hope you get to see some of this wonderful country before you return to California.
    David and Tim were both excellent speakers and your presentation was very enlightening. I would also like to thank those who organised this series of lectures.
    To Leon I’d like to than you for the interesting but all to brief chat we had after the lecture. I look forward to the coming elections where we will have some real alternative candidates to vote for.
    Thanks again and enjoy you stay here.

  46. Thats commonwealth (ie Federal) law: “The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Regulations 2000 (Cth) ” – the “Cth” on the end indicates that.
    This is also regulations, not legislation, so its normally put in place by the minister and rubber-stamped.
    If passed in 2000, then it was when the conservative government of John Howard was in power.

  47. Thanks for the great talk and great to meet others in the climate community.
    A typo btw its twawki (acronym for the world as we know it) not twaki

  48. Luke says “Marge I’m sorry some facts from Australia’s best researchers offends you. And yes was a direct quote from the PDF abstract – you see in science there’s this thing called referencing …. perhaps might considering looking at some journal papers to get the idea of how it works.”
    You may wish to take another look at my post, Luke.
    I was quoting Peter W. ““Ha ha ha, what a load of crap, Luke. It says nothing of the sort.”
    I directed this to Peter, not you. “You’re kidding, right? It’s an exact quote from the PDF!”
    Okay?

  49. Just a note about photography in Australian national parks: the example Anthony provides refers only to the six or so Commonwealth or federal government-run parks, not necessarily the hundreds of state or territory governments-run national parks (state-run parks are called national parks here). The Commonwealth parks are mostly on occupied Aboriginal land and run in cooperation with the local landholders whose belief systems imbues aspects of the landscape as sentinel “beings” or living entities – Uluru or Ayers Rock is an internationally known example. The Aboriginal landholders were desireous that their sacred icons were not commercialised without their say so, so as a sign of respect laws were enacted to protect their interests by the issueing of permits for commercial photography, principally advertising, movie making or corporate photography that may utilise these symbols in a demeaning, derogatory or inconsiderate way, or in a way that garnered profit with no recompense to the traditional owners. These laws and permits in no way apply to private citizens taking photographs for their own use or pleasure. I am aware of similar commercial laws applying in the parks of other countries.
    Similarly, permits are required in some – not all – state-based national parks but unfortunately some of these jurisdictions have further increased restrictions as a means to increase their funding base. I speak as someone who regularly has books published, including one on Australia’s national parks, and have had no problems in getting permits in order to have my national parks’ photographs published, including the waiving of permit fees once I explained my non-corporate solo author status.
    Welcome to Australia Anthony; I hope to catch your talk at Narrogin, a small town (Pop 3,000) in the heart of Australia’s wild west!

  50. Is there going to be a video release of this talk in Australia?
    I would love to compare it to the video that Steve from Science Skeptics had of his little chat to the Aussies just before the ICCC.
    Am I missing something in that picture, was there really a thermometer in that picture somewhere with all those AC blowouts? There was so much machinery that I didn’t even see a sensor. Or was that just a bit of humor aimed at the places we put sensors here in America?

  51. My brother was fortunate enough to take photos with Ansel Adams during 2 different summer internships at Yosemite. I have to books of pictures by Mr. Adams.
    I have backpacked the South lake Merced loop and hiked numerous parts of the valley floor and numerous parts of hills and rocky outcrops in Yosemite and I am like the old indian in the canoe in the old commercials with tears in my eyes when I think about that once pristine and beautiful place.

  52. “Ha ha ha, what a load of crap, Luke. It says nothing of the sort.”
    “…perhaps might considering looking at some journal papers to get the idea of how it works.”
    Another goal mouth fumble from the ‘tour guide’.
    Still if you pompously tell people how superior you are by pointing out that “…in science there’s this thing called referencing…” without being able to read the post your flaming accurately, then you’re bound to come a cropper, just like the study you quoted.
    But it’s true the paper, or rather the research conducted, shows no link between carbon dioxide and the change in snow depth, the quoted passage is just the usual facetious inclusion required by all BOM’s climate change funding grants.
    But hey, if an underworked staffer at the home of David Jones, the ‘reliable’ mate of CRU’s Phil Jones, finds the time to compare temperature records from a town (which has moved location and changed temperature sensors) located on a cleared area on the sheltered and mostly forested northern end of a mountain range with snowfall records from an open alpine valley 80 kilometres to the south on the southern slope of a mountain range then that’s fine.
    Just don’t expect us to take it or you seriously Luke.

  53. By the way, welcome to this sudden influx of of NZ and AZ contributors. It’s nice to have some new voices.
    I’m no one important on this blog just an avid reader and sometimes commenter but I am an avid learner so the more voices of education the merrier I say.

  54. Australia is a place that I’ve always wanted to go to but sadly lack the funding.
    My father was lost on a Japanese controlled island with his crew for three years and after three years of avoiding the Japanese He was finally rescued by the Americans and sent to Australia to recuperate and he always talked about how wonderful the Australians were to him and how beautiful a country it was. And how badly the man of wars stung when he was a young man.

  55. Well , as a long term reader of WuWT in the UK and now just moved to NZ I’m a bit gutted that I’d not clocked his tour “down under”! No chance of you nipping across the Tasman is there?
    Mind you am planning on attending the World SF Convention in Melbourne in September so look forward to bracing exchanges of opinion…….
    graham

  56. The Holton Weather & Climate Forecasts, to which ‘Luke’ links above, do not support the purpose of his reference, i.e. “that the Australian alpine region may already be experiencing significant effects of greenhouse climate change”.
    If he’d looked beyond the first few sections, he would have found that they are uncertain as to the effects of CO2 on climate and further that:
    “…the two Holton Weather Articles previous to this one, in the March 2010 set, show fairly clearly that CO2 level are not of as much concern as stated, and that cooling and higher snow levels are likely in the next 20 to 30 years ahead at least…”.

  57. You’ll find Australians are very respectful of the laws even though they claim not to be. It seems to come from being a penal colony where the warders controlled the food.
    As for armed police we’ve had a squad of 5 or 6 fully armed Federal Police wander around our local airport every few months complete with cars and a dog in case Osama or his friends try to hi jack an aircraft. Wonderful. We’re trying to figure out if the dog is the detachment commander or the intelligence officer.

  58. Hi Brad,
    I was with Anthony when we saw this unbelievable site of so many aircons together in one confined space. I said to him as joke that it would be a great site for a thermometer. If you do the count it looks like at least 35 maybe 36 aircons in a very small area.
    One thing you have to understand about Australians. We love irony, sarcasm and under or overstating things. If it is really big it’s small. If it’s really small it’s big. If you have red hair you are called blue, skinny you’re likely to be called fatty. If it’s a poor site for thermometers it logically has to be a good one. However, according to Anthony who observed from a distance Townsville’s official BOM weather site at the airport as his plane landed he felt it didn’t look to bad. Fortunately not sited near this unbelievable heat sink. I think you would rate this a catergory 10 site, and impossible to adjust for if it was.
    Cheers Microw

  59. PeterW -perhaps voluminous previous work has made the case for greenhouse sufficiently well to suggest this a reasonable hypothesis – the paper does need to keep to the point. We’ll just add it to the growing pile of annoying supporting factoids shall we.

  60. Luke Said:
    “We’ll just add it to the growing pile of annoying supporting factoids rubbish published by grant seeking agencies like BOM shall we.”
    There, fixed it for you – back to the kiddies now Luke.

  61. Luke:Yes voluminous previous work like a hockey stick and its interesting manipulation of data to hide a decline. Very supportive indeed!

  62. Microw,
    Thank you indeed for the information, or as the young ones in America say, the low down or the skinny. ????
    I figured about as much. I come from British, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh blood so I have a bit of a strange sense of humor as well, but we all drink mighty well together…
    (except I’m a Christian and don’t drink much) which makes me really strange I guess.
    The fact that there isn’t an air temp sensor there is probably only due to the fact that it’s “not” in America. From what I’ve seen at Mr. Watts other site, there would have probably been one placed there. 🙂
    It is very nice to see that there are so many from AZ and NZ that are skeptics as well.
    I’ve been worried about NZ because of the fact that their former PM is not working for the UN with Pachauri and because they signed the Kyoto treaty, but apparently as in America, the citizenship of NZ and AZ has more grey matter than has the politicians.

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