Lord Monckton wins global warming debate at Oxford Union

I’m waiting for actual photos of the event from the official photographer, but for now I’ll make do with what can be found on the Internet. For those who don’t know, the Oxford Union is the top of the food chain for scholarly debate. This is a significant win.

File:OxfordUnionTwo20040228CopyrightKaihsuTai.png
The Oxford Union Debate Chamber - image from Wikimedia

Founded in 1823 at the University of Oxford, but maintaining a separate charter from the University, The Oxford Union is host to some of the most skillful debates in the world. Many eminent scholars and personalities have come and either debated or delivered speeches in the chamber. Monckton was invited as part of the formal Thursday debate.

It is described as follows:

The Union is the world’s most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. It has been established for 182 years, aiming to promote debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.

Here is a view inside from a previous debate:

http://mba.sbsblogs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/06-the-oxford-union-debating-chamber-pic-courtesy-rajiv-dabas-2.jpg
The Debate Chamber - Photo by: Rajiv Dabas

From the SPPI Blog, an account of the debate:

Oxford Union Debate on Climate Catastrophe

Source:  SPPI

Army of Light and Truth 135, Forces of Darkness 110

For what is believed to be the first time ever in England, an audience of university undergraduates has decisively rejected the notion that “global warming” is or could become a global crisis. The only previous defeat for climate extremism among an undergraduate audience was at St. Andrew’s University, Scotland, in the spring of 2009, when the climate extremists were defeated by three votes.

Last week, members of the historic Oxford Union Society, the world’s premier debating society, carried the motion “That this House would put economic growth before combating climate change” by 135 votes to 110. The debate was sponsored by the Science and Public Policy Institute, Washington DC.

Serious observers are interpreting this shock result as a sign that students are now impatiently rejecting the relentless extremist propaganda taught under the guise of compulsory environmental-studies classes in British schools, confirming opinion-poll findings that the voters are no longer frightened by “global warming” scare stories, if they ever were.

When the Union’s president, Laura Winwood, announced the result in the Victorian-Gothich Gladstone Room, three peers cheered with the undergraduates, and one peer drowned his sorrows in beer.

Lord Lawson of Blaby, Margaret Thatcher’s former finance minister, opened the case for the proposition by saying that the economic proposals put forward by the UN’s climate panel and its supporters did not add up. It would be better to wait and see whether the scientists had gotten it right. It was not sensible to make expensive spending commitments, particularly at a time of great economic hardship, when the effectiveness of the spending was gravely in doubt and when it might do more harm than good.

At one point, Lord Lawson was interrupted by a US student, who demanded to know what was his connection with the Science and Public Policy Institute, and what were the Institute’s sources of funding. Lord Lawson was cheered when he said he neither knew nor cared who funded the Institute.

Ms. Zara McGlone, Secretary of the Oxford Union, opposed the motion, saying that greenhouse gases had an effect [they do, but it is very small]; that the precautionary principle required immediate action, just in case and regardless of expense [but one must also bear in mind the cost of the precautions themselves, which can and often do easily exceed the cost of inaction]; that Bangladesh was sinking beneath the waves [a recent study by Prof. Niklas Moerner shows that sea level in Bangladesh has actually fallen]; that the majority of scientists believed “global warming” was a problem [she offered no evidence for this]; and that “irreversible natural destruction” would occur if we did nothing [but she did not offer any evidence].

Mr. James Delingpole, a blogger for the leading British conservative national newspaper The Daily Telegraph, seconded the proposition, saying that – politically speaking – the climate extremists had long since lost the argument. The general public simply did not buy the scare stories any more. The endless tales of Biblical disasters peddled by the alarmist faction were an unwelcome and now fortunately failed recrudescence of dull, gray Puritanism. Instead of hand-wringing and bed-wetting, we should celebrate the considerable achievements of the human race and start having fun.

Lord Whitty, a Labor peer from the trades union movement and, until recently, Labor’s Environment Minister in the Upper House, said that the world’s oil supplies were rapidly running out [in fact, record new finds have been made in the past five years]; that we needed to change our definition of economic growth to take into account the value lost when we damaged the environment [it is artificial accounting of this kind that has left Britain as bankrupt as Greece after 13 years of Labor government]; that green jobs created by governments would help to end unemployment [but Milton Friedman won his Nobel Prize for economics by demonstrating that every artificial job created at taxpayers’ expense destroys two real jobs in the wealth-producing private sector]; that humans were the cause of most of the past century’s warming [there is no evidence for that: the case is built on speculation by programmers of computer models]; that temperature today was at its highest in at least 40 million years [in fact, it was higher than today by at least 12.5 F° for most of the past 550 million years]; and that 95% of scientists believed our influence on the climate was catastrophic [no one has asked them].

Lord Monckton repeatedly interrupted Lord Whitty to ask him to give a reference in the scientific literature for his suggestion that 95% of scientists believed our influence on the climate was catastrophic. Lord Whitty was unable to provide the source for his figure, but said that everyone knew it was true. Under further pressure from Lord Monckton, Lord Whitty conceded that the figure should perhaps be 92%. Lord Monckton asked: “And your reference is?” Lord Whitty was unable to reply. Hon. Members began to join in, jeering “Your reference? Your reference?” Lord Whitty sat down looking baffled.

Lord Leach of Fairford, whom Margaret Thatcher appointed a Life Peer for his educational work, spoke third for the proposition. He said that we no longer knew whether or not there had been much “global warming” over the 20th century, because the Climategate emails had exposed the terrestrial temperature records as defective. In any event, he said, throwing good money after bad on various alternative-energy boondoggles was unlikely to prove profitable in the long term and would ultimately do harm.

Mr. Rajesh Makwana, executive director of “Share The World’s Resources”, speaking third for the opposition, said that climate change was manmade [but he did not produce any evidence for that assertion]; that CO2 emissions were growing at 3% a year [but it is concentrations, not emissions, that may in theory affect climate, and concentrations are rising at a harmless 0.5% a year]; that the UN’s climate panel had forecast a 7 F° “global warming” for the 21st century [it’s gotten off to a bad start, with a cooling of 0.2 F° so far]; and that the consequences of “global warming” would be dire [yet, in the audience, sat Mr. Klaus-Martin Schulte, whose landmark paper of 2008 had established that not one of 539 scientific papers on “global climate change” provided any evidence whatsoever that “global warming” would be catastrophic].

Lord Monckton, a former science advisor to Margaret Thatcher during her years as Prime Minister of the UK, concluded the case for the proposition. He drew immediate laughter and cheers when he described himself as “Christopher Walter, Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, scholar, philanthropist, wit, man about town, and former chairman of the Wines and Spirits Committee of this honourable Society”. At that point his cummerbund came undone. He held it up to the audience and said, “If I asked this House how long this cummerbund is, you might telephone around all the manufacturers and ask them how many cummerbunds they made, and how long each type of cummerbund was, and put the data into a computer model run by a zitty teenager eating too many doughnuts, and the computer would make an expensive guess. Or you could take a tape-measure and” – glaring at the opposition across the despatch-box – “measure it!” [cheers].

Lord Monckton said that real-world measurements, as opposed to models, showed that the warming effect of CO2 was a tiny fraction of the estimates peddled by the UN’s climate panel. He said that he would take his lead from Lord Lawson, however, in concentrating on the economics rather than the science. He glared at the opposition again and demanded whether, since they had declared themselves to be so worried about “global warming”, they would care to tell him – to two places of decimals and one standard deviation – the UN’s central estimate of the “global warming” that might result from a doubling of atmospheric CO2 concentration. The opposition were unable to reply. Lord Monckton told them the answer was 3.26 plus or minus 0.69 Kelvin or Celsius degrees. An Hon. Member interrupted: “And your reference is?” Lord Monckton replied: “IPCC, 2007, chapter 10, box 10.2.” [cheers]. He concluded that shutting down the entire global economy for a whole year, with all the death, destruction, disaster, disease and distress that that would cause, would forestall just 4.7 ln(390/388) = 0.024 Kelvin or Celsius degrees of “global warming”, so that total economic shutdown for 41 years would prevent just 1 K of warming. Adaptation as and if necessary would be orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective.

Mr. Mike Mason, founder and managing director of “Climate Care”, concluded for the opposition. He said that the proposition were peculiar people, and that Lord Monckton was more peculiar than most, in that he was not a real Lord. Lord Monckton, on a point of order, told Mr. Mason that the proposition had avoided personalities and that if Mr. Mason were unable to argue other than ad hominem he should “get out”. [cheers] Mr. Mason then said that we had to prepare for climate risks [yes, in both directions, towards cooler as well as warmer]; and that there was a “scientific consensus” [but he offered no evidence for the existence of any such consensus, still less for the notion that science is done by consensus].

The President thanked the speakers and expressed the Society’s gratitude to the Science and Public Policy Institute for sponsoring the debate. Hon. Members filed out of the Debating Chamber, built to resemble the interior of the House of Commons, and passed either side of the brass division-pole at the main door – Ayes to the right 135, Noes to the left 110. Motion carried.


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latitude
May 24, 2010 6:44 pm

They are not factoring in the “kid” factor.
All of the people pushing global warming are old geisers to these kids.
“don’t trust anyone over 30”
Kids like to rebel and feel like they are doing something new, making their own way.
Now this is old, tired, and something their parents generation pushed to them.
Not to mention all of their old geiser teachers.
I think it’s just about run it’s course, and time has run out. It’s no longer cool.
“”For what is believed to be the first time ever in England, an audience of university undergraduates has decisively rejected the notion that “global warming” is or could become a global crisis.””
And the second it’s no longer perceived as cool….

May 24, 2010 6:49 pm

: Regarding the survey at: http://stats.org/stories/2008/global_warming_survey_apr23_08.html
Note the sample size. n = 489. That gives you a margin of error of about five percentage points. Note that the non-response rate among the more than 50,000 members of AMS and AGU is not mentioned anywhere.
Anyway, with n = 489, the margin of error is about 4.4 percentage points. Therefore,

A slight majority (54%) believe the warming measured over the last 100 years is not “within the range of natural temperature fluctuation.”

should be stated as “the scientists who responded to the survey are about equally split as to whether the warming measured over the last hundred years is not “within the range of natural temperature fluctuation.”
Further, with a margin of error of 4.4 points, I would not put much stock in the statement that

A slight majority (56%) see at least a 50-50 chance that global temperatures will rise two degrees Celsius or more during the next 50 to 100 years.

either given the my doubts about sample selection bias induced by non-response.

Amino Acids in Meteorites
May 24, 2010 6:49 pm

Dr. Dave says:
May 24, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Still…I worry about the 110 who voted the other way.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
It was “an audience of university undergraduates”. That is an age group that leans heavily toward believing in “manmade” global warming. It was not a group of 40 to 70 year olds. Be happy. This vote is noteworthy.

Pamela Gray
May 24, 2010 6:55 pm

To Lord M., four marks

Robert Kral
May 24, 2010 6:57 pm

Entertaining article, and I am encouraged by the result, but one thing caught my eye: “CO2 is rising by a harmless 0.5% per year”, or words to that effect. 20 years of such an increase would lead to levels 10% higher than today. I think that’s unlikely to be harmful, but it’s not valid to pretend that such a change is just noise in the signal. If you have a basis for stating that’s harmless, then fine, trot it out. Otherwise, you’re making an argument by assertion, which is exactly what the Goracles do all the time. Best to avoid their tactics.

John Robertson
May 24, 2010 7:09 pm

> Stephan says:
> May 24, 2010 at 5:26 pm
> Someone needs to look at this blatant discrepancy immediately and report it…
Actually, as near as I can figure out by looking at the two images they show similar results. The problem as I see it is the NOAA site uses shades of yellow then red to show warmer than normal temperatures while Unisys uses shades of green for the first degree – up to around 2 degrees positive, then shifts to yellow and then red. Also Unisys puts temperatures measured in some of the warmer (and cooler) spots so one has an idea of what exactly one is looking at, NOAA seems to overlook this point…
It could depend on what each of their respective funding models are based on – if they need to alarm then using yellow (and then red) starting at 0.5 degrees makes sense – these are universal warning colours. If, on the other hand, you are trying to present the data calmly and accurately and perhaps are not so worried about funding sources then you would explain the results better and use a wider range of colours to help folks see the graphical results more accurately. What do you think?
(unless, like 10% of males – myself included – you are colour blind/deficient to red/green so can’t see the different shades as easily – if at all. For example, I can see the shades in the legend but not descern them as easily on the NOAA chart, the Unisys chart is much easier to see – the colours are more separated in tone.)
John :-#)#

kcom
May 24, 2010 7:10 pm

I found this fascinating and entertaining.
And it got me to thinking. Anthony, could you help us out and print the transcript from the debate Al Gore participated in at the Oxford Union. You know, the one where he defended his position and made a strong argument for the catastrophic global warming case. Where he subjected himself to the give and take of a true debate and responded forthrightly to the challenge of an informed opposition. The one where he stood his ground and triumphed in the end through superior knowledge and argument. I can’t seem to find a copy of the transcipt anywhere.

Jim Cripwell
May 24, 2010 7:13 pm

This is a debating society, The vote should be made on the basis of who were the best debaters; not whether the motion was correct or not. A famous debate was on the motion the “There are fairies at the bottom of our garden”. This was in pre-war Britian, when “fairies” had only one meaning.
So dont get the impression that the skeptics won the debate, The debaters won the debate by their eloquence.

Paul Vaughan
May 24, 2010 7:13 pm

Bravo:
chris1958 5:50 pm May 24 “Mother Nature is the ultimate adjudicator […]”

Paul Vaughan
May 24, 2010 7:20 pm

James Sexton 6:09 pm May 24 “[…] doesn’t sit well with Darwin’s model […]”
Surely you realize there have been substantial updates since Darwin. Example: Ever heard of DNA?

Kevin_S
May 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Al, baby, when ya gonna accept Lord Monckton’s challenge? Huh? Yeah, that’s what I thought, coward.
It’s the mad skillz that Lord Monckton displayed that keeps the likes of AlGore and his fellow believers in their cocoons. Far easier to preach to the choir than actually put your beliefs in full view, open to debate.

Tom in Texas
May 24, 2010 7:33 pm

Dr. Dave says:
May 24, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Still…I worry about the 110 who voted the other way.

I’d like to see a breakdown by major.

Jack Simmons
May 24, 2010 7:34 pm

DirkH says:
May 24, 2010 at 6:36 pm

The funny thing is that sometimes it can, see Methylation, Paramutation, Epigenetics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_inheritance

Epigenetics is going to force a lot of rethinking on the part of a lot of people.
At least for those capable of realizing the implications.

pat
May 24, 2010 7:35 pm

it is depressing that, apart from james delingpole’s blog, no media in UK reported the Oxford Union Debate (btw the media often does cover them).
the reuters summit linked below is more appealing to the media, even tho u could well argue that BBC’s Pension funds are more at risk because they are following Stern’s advice:
1 May: Licence fee to plug BBC’s £1bn pension hole
An individual close to the BBC who is aware of the findings said the deficit is £1.5billion “give or take £100m”. ..
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article7114129.ece
24 May: Reuters: Pension wealth at risk as climate priority slips
Pension funds must shift more capital into low-carbon energy to drive long-term returns, British academic Nicholas Stern told Reuters Global Energy Summit….
“Investing long-term in dirty technologies is actually risking their clients’ money,” said Stern…
Stern said one way to tilt the balance in favor of low carbon technologies may be a carbon price floor, which would boost cap and trade schemes meant to penalize fossil fuels.
A future carbon price of about $50, for example, may be needed to support carbon capture and storage — a technology meant to bury the greenhouse gases emitted by coal plants – compared with about 15 euros ($18.55) in Europe now.
One problem for governments implementing such advice was the added cost for populations facing rising unemployment, since utilities pass on added, “green” costs to consumers.
“The price per unit of electricity might have to go up by 15 or 20 percent, over time,” he said…
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64N2Y620100524

Paul Vaughan
May 24, 2010 7:36 pm

This is the most refreshing article WUWT has run in MANY weeks. Thanks for the welcome flashback. Vinegar & hot pepper are ALWAYS welcome in a nourishing meal – (but nevermind the BS – no one wants or needs crap in a healthy meal).

Michael Reed
May 24, 2010 7:42 pm

John Q Public says:
May 24, 2010 at 4:57 pm
“In 20 years, AGW will equal The Red Scare in terms of silliness.”
This may be OT, but the Red Scare was anything but silly. The Soviets built the largest tank armies the world has ever seen, far larger than anything NATO had, and pronounced publicly and often that they intended to bury the West. Fortunately for us, they spent themselves into the grave.

Justa Joe
May 24, 2010 7:44 pm

“Mother Nature is the ultimate adjudicator – Lord Monckton’s debating form will not determine whether we will get CAGW, lukewarming, or another ice age.” – Chris
Yeah… but maybe just maybe it will help prevent a bunch of counterproductive laws and taxes in the mean time.

artwest
May 24, 2010 7:51 pm

While this is very welcome and it’s true that Oxford students are likely to make up many of the next generation of politicians – and heads of eco organizations for that matter – they are no real indication of what is “cool”. They are also very unrepresentative of their age group or even students as a whole.

May 24, 2010 7:59 pm

Paul Vaughan says:
May 24, 2010 at 7:20 pm
James Sexton 6:09 pm May 24 “[…] doesn’t sit well with Darwin’s model […]“
Surely you realize there have been substantial updates since Darwin. Example: Ever heard of DNA?
Yep, sure have. Please explain to me how the discovery of DNA significantly changes the theory. As I understand it, according to recent theory, DNA, also, evolves. This could be reflective of evolution or the cause for evolution, or it all could be a bunch of bs. In any case, I’m really interested in how you believe DNA prevents us from adapting to our environment.

Alex Buddery
May 24, 2010 8:00 pm

RE: Mike
May 24, 2010 at 4:53 pm
I think you missed the point. The question of whether global average temperatures have increased over the last century is meaningless in the big scheme of things. So is the assertion that humans contribute to warming. Asking less than 500 self identified members of the AMS or AGU (because of course there is no world outside of america) their opinion on these two questions is also largely meaningless. I’m sure that most sceptics would agree with those two statements, I certainly do.
The important question is how much warming and what is the climate sensitivity to CO2. Alarmists seem to love bringing up the meaningless points and trying to stick to them because they don’t seem to have many substantial points beyond that.
As soon as you start to try and engage alarmists in a meanigful discussion it all of a sudden becomes ‘consensus’ and ‘you don’t believe in gravity’ and ‘so’s your face’.

Darren Parker
May 24, 2010 8:01 pm

Slammed!

Jack Stevenson
May 24, 2010 8:04 pm

I’m a 9th grader in NYC, and I’m interested in interviewing someone (by phone or in person) about their views about human-caused global warming. If you’re interested, please contact me at jstevenso@stuy.edu.

Matta
May 24, 2010 8:09 pm

Mike
Since when is science decided by a vote. Science is decided by evidence. So produce evidence that humans are causing the warming which is predicted by the models and the IPCC.
Most sceptics do not deny warming they are simply unsure of its cause.

Amino Acids in Meteorites
May 24, 2010 8:10 pm

Lord Monckton said that real-world measurements, as opposed to models, showed that the warming effect of CO2 was a tiny fraction of the estimates peddled by the UN’s climate panel.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
So WattsUpWith climate models? Richard Lindzen likens them to Ouija boards:

Graeme W
May 24, 2010 8:11 pm

Robert Kral says:
May 24, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Entertaining article, and I am encouraged by the result, but one thing caught my eye: “CO2 is rising by a harmless 0.5% per year”, or words to that effect. 20 years of such an increase would lead to levels 10% higher than today. I think that’s unlikely to be harmful, but it’s not valid to pretend that such a change is just noise in the signal. If you have a basis for stating that’s harmless, then fine, trot it out. Otherwise, you’re making an argument by assertion, which is exactly what the Goracles do all the time. Best to avoid their tactics.

Remember that the effect of CO2 on temperature is logarithmic. A doubling (sans any forcing) will increase temperatures about one or two degrees (sorry, I can’t remember and I’m too lazy to look it up). Therefore a 10% increase (one tenth of a doubling) will have an insignificant impact.

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