Lord Monckton wins global warming debate at Oxford Union

I’m waiting for actual photos of the event from the official photographer, but for now I’ll make do with what can be found on the Internet. For those who don’t know, the Oxford Union is the top of the food chain for scholarly debate. This is a significant win.

File:OxfordUnionTwo20040228CopyrightKaihsuTai.png
The Oxford Union Debate Chamber - image from Wikimedia

Founded in 1823 at the University of Oxford, but maintaining a separate charter from the University, The Oxford Union is host to some of the most skillful debates in the world. Many eminent scholars and personalities have come and either debated or delivered speeches in the chamber. Monckton was invited as part of the formal Thursday debate.

It is described as follows:

The Union is the world’s most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. It has been established for 182 years, aiming to promote debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.

Here is a view inside from a previous debate:

http://mba.sbsblogs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/06-the-oxford-union-debating-chamber-pic-courtesy-rajiv-dabas-2.jpg
The Debate Chamber - Photo by: Rajiv Dabas

From the SPPI Blog, an account of the debate:

Oxford Union Debate on Climate Catastrophe

Source:  SPPI

Army of Light and Truth 135, Forces of Darkness 110

For what is believed to be the first time ever in England, an audience of university undergraduates has decisively rejected the notion that “global warming” is or could become a global crisis. The only previous defeat for climate extremism among an undergraduate audience was at St. Andrew’s University, Scotland, in the spring of 2009, when the climate extremists were defeated by three votes.

Last week, members of the historic Oxford Union Society, the world’s premier debating society, carried the motion “That this House would put economic growth before combating climate change” by 135 votes to 110. The debate was sponsored by the Science and Public Policy Institute, Washington DC.

Serious observers are interpreting this shock result as a sign that students are now impatiently rejecting the relentless extremist propaganda taught under the guise of compulsory environmental-studies classes in British schools, confirming opinion-poll findings that the voters are no longer frightened by “global warming” scare stories, if they ever were.

When the Union’s president, Laura Winwood, announced the result in the Victorian-Gothich Gladstone Room, three peers cheered with the undergraduates, and one peer drowned his sorrows in beer.

Lord Lawson of Blaby, Margaret Thatcher’s former finance minister, opened the case for the proposition by saying that the economic proposals put forward by the UN’s climate panel and its supporters did not add up. It would be better to wait and see whether the scientists had gotten it right. It was not sensible to make expensive spending commitments, particularly at a time of great economic hardship, when the effectiveness of the spending was gravely in doubt and when it might do more harm than good.

At one point, Lord Lawson was interrupted by a US student, who demanded to know what was his connection with the Science and Public Policy Institute, and what were the Institute’s sources of funding. Lord Lawson was cheered when he said he neither knew nor cared who funded the Institute.

Ms. Zara McGlone, Secretary of the Oxford Union, opposed the motion, saying that greenhouse gases had an effect [they do, but it is very small]; that the precautionary principle required immediate action, just in case and regardless of expense [but one must also bear in mind the cost of the precautions themselves, which can and often do easily exceed the cost of inaction]; that Bangladesh was sinking beneath the waves [a recent study by Prof. Niklas Moerner shows that sea level in Bangladesh has actually fallen]; that the majority of scientists believed “global warming” was a problem [she offered no evidence for this]; and that “irreversible natural destruction” would occur if we did nothing [but she did not offer any evidence].

Mr. James Delingpole, a blogger for the leading British conservative national newspaper The Daily Telegraph, seconded the proposition, saying that – politically speaking – the climate extremists had long since lost the argument. The general public simply did not buy the scare stories any more. The endless tales of Biblical disasters peddled by the alarmist faction were an unwelcome and now fortunately failed recrudescence of dull, gray Puritanism. Instead of hand-wringing and bed-wetting, we should celebrate the considerable achievements of the human race and start having fun.

Lord Whitty, a Labor peer from the trades union movement and, until recently, Labor’s Environment Minister in the Upper House, said that the world’s oil supplies were rapidly running out [in fact, record new finds have been made in the past five years]; that we needed to change our definition of economic growth to take into account the value lost when we damaged the environment [it is artificial accounting of this kind that has left Britain as bankrupt as Greece after 13 years of Labor government]; that green jobs created by governments would help to end unemployment [but Milton Friedman won his Nobel Prize for economics by demonstrating that every artificial job created at taxpayers’ expense destroys two real jobs in the wealth-producing private sector]; that humans were the cause of most of the past century’s warming [there is no evidence for that: the case is built on speculation by programmers of computer models]; that temperature today was at its highest in at least 40 million years [in fact, it was higher than today by at least 12.5 F° for most of the past 550 million years]; and that 95% of scientists believed our influence on the climate was catastrophic [no one has asked them].

Lord Monckton repeatedly interrupted Lord Whitty to ask him to give a reference in the scientific literature for his suggestion that 95% of scientists believed our influence on the climate was catastrophic. Lord Whitty was unable to provide the source for his figure, but said that everyone knew it was true. Under further pressure from Lord Monckton, Lord Whitty conceded that the figure should perhaps be 92%. Lord Monckton asked: “And your reference is?” Lord Whitty was unable to reply. Hon. Members began to join in, jeering “Your reference? Your reference?” Lord Whitty sat down looking baffled.

Lord Leach of Fairford, whom Margaret Thatcher appointed a Life Peer for his educational work, spoke third for the proposition. He said that we no longer knew whether or not there had been much “global warming” over the 20th century, because the Climategate emails had exposed the terrestrial temperature records as defective. In any event, he said, throwing good money after bad on various alternative-energy boondoggles was unlikely to prove profitable in the long term and would ultimately do harm.

Mr. Rajesh Makwana, executive director of “Share The World’s Resources”, speaking third for the opposition, said that climate change was manmade [but he did not produce any evidence for that assertion]; that CO2 emissions were growing at 3% a year [but it is concentrations, not emissions, that may in theory affect climate, and concentrations are rising at a harmless 0.5% a year]; that the UN’s climate panel had forecast a 7 F° “global warming” for the 21st century [it’s gotten off to a bad start, with a cooling of 0.2 F° so far]; and that the consequences of “global warming” would be dire [yet, in the audience, sat Mr. Klaus-Martin Schulte, whose landmark paper of 2008 had established that not one of 539 scientific papers on “global climate change” provided any evidence whatsoever that “global warming” would be catastrophic].

Lord Monckton, a former science advisor to Margaret Thatcher during her years as Prime Minister of the UK, concluded the case for the proposition. He drew immediate laughter and cheers when he described himself as “Christopher Walter, Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, scholar, philanthropist, wit, man about town, and former chairman of the Wines and Spirits Committee of this honourable Society”. At that point his cummerbund came undone. He held it up to the audience and said, “If I asked this House how long this cummerbund is, you might telephone around all the manufacturers and ask them how many cummerbunds they made, and how long each type of cummerbund was, and put the data into a computer model run by a zitty teenager eating too many doughnuts, and the computer would make an expensive guess. Or you could take a tape-measure and” – glaring at the opposition across the despatch-box – “measure it!” [cheers].

Lord Monckton said that real-world measurements, as opposed to models, showed that the warming effect of CO2 was a tiny fraction of the estimates peddled by the UN’s climate panel. He said that he would take his lead from Lord Lawson, however, in concentrating on the economics rather than the science. He glared at the opposition again and demanded whether, since they had declared themselves to be so worried about “global warming”, they would care to tell him – to two places of decimals and one standard deviation – the UN’s central estimate of the “global warming” that might result from a doubling of atmospheric CO2 concentration. The opposition were unable to reply. Lord Monckton told them the answer was 3.26 plus or minus 0.69 Kelvin or Celsius degrees. An Hon. Member interrupted: “And your reference is?” Lord Monckton replied: “IPCC, 2007, chapter 10, box 10.2.” [cheers]. He concluded that shutting down the entire global economy for a whole year, with all the death, destruction, disaster, disease and distress that that would cause, would forestall just 4.7 ln(390/388) = 0.024 Kelvin or Celsius degrees of “global warming”, so that total economic shutdown for 41 years would prevent just 1 K of warming. Adaptation as and if necessary would be orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective.

Mr. Mike Mason, founder and managing director of “Climate Care”, concluded for the opposition. He said that the proposition were peculiar people, and that Lord Monckton was more peculiar than most, in that he was not a real Lord. Lord Monckton, on a point of order, told Mr. Mason that the proposition had avoided personalities and that if Mr. Mason were unable to argue other than ad hominem he should “get out”. [cheers] Mr. Mason then said that we had to prepare for climate risks [yes, in both directions, towards cooler as well as warmer]; and that there was a “scientific consensus” [but he offered no evidence for the existence of any such consensus, still less for the notion that science is done by consensus].

The President thanked the speakers and expressed the Society’s gratitude to the Science and Public Policy Institute for sponsoring the debate. Hon. Members filed out of the Debating Chamber, built to resemble the interior of the House of Commons, and passed either side of the brass division-pole at the main door – Ayes to the right 135, Noes to the left 110. Motion carried.


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Alex
May 31, 2010 10:45 am

Lord Monkton and most of the [snip] have no understanding of the basics of science, and often resort to blanket generalities that sound absurd to anyone with any semblance of critical thought. Let me start with this statement; Which is more likely? That a new cabal of secret moneyed interests wish to institute a new control scheme under the guise of energy efficiency and technological advancement, or That the already existing energy monopolies see the end of the commodity world quickly approaching and will fight to the death for even a few more decades of enormous profit? Now which really seems more likely to all of you common sense people.
To the science, CO2 increase temperature, its physics….cant deny that. Temperature fluctuations are part of the natural system…yes, and when there is sufficient ice melting to account for increases in air temperature, the overall increase will be near zero. For those of you who don’t follow this, go fill a glass full of ice and and watch the temperature remain at zero until all of the ice melts…another gem from science. So to conclude those two thoughts for all of you out there, it means that we will not see massive increases in surface temps until most if not all of the ice caps are gone, and this will happen slowly in cycles much as we see today. When the caps are really gone, the global conveyor will shut down and the upper ocean will stratify allowing much greater temperatures.
And to the future…something that none of the climate deniers ever has to bravery to tackle, what about the future? Well people on the green side say lets move away from dirty coal, oil, natural gas to clean things like hydro, wind, and solar, opponents state that its not always sunny, and the wind doesn’t always blow but guess what it? It does shine all the time, IN SPACE, and its always windy,IN UPPER ATMOSPHERE. We must simply invest in capturing these sources of energy where they are most economical. The technology exists to fast track much of the infrastructure, the only thing lacking is political will, and intelligence of the masses to see what is truly possible in the future.
The green future is this…..50 years from now, global energy is supplied by solar and wind, and tidal sources. Energy transmission tech is flourishing and the realization that all transportation and manufacturing costs will trend towards zero due to price of resources. The commodity world has ended and goods actually cost what they are worth, not some over inflated price including every energy cost from every step in the supply chain….this is the world you all are fighting, one in which game theory has taken its place, and the same greedy institutions that have governed our societies for centuries will have been exposed for what they really are, greedy people fleecing the ignorant.
If we aren’t the first to move in this direction believe me the Chinese will get there first, they have 1 billion reasons to make production cheap and free( I’m talking nanotechnology here). People of the world wake up to the bright future that awaits if you can only look past the lies that have run this world. Scarcity is a myth!

Zane
May 31, 2010 11:59 am

Alex,
Thank you for your comments but I must respectufly disagree. You once again claim that Monckton does not understand science and yet he is quoting actual scientific, peer reviewed papers that argue against man-made global warming. You then claim to understand politics beyond that of Monckton even though he has been in the political arena for decades and you use that as a defense of your argumentation?
You fail to provide supporting evidence that anthropogenic global warming is occuring. You merely state, “ice melts” but the temperature remains the same. Are you seriously utilizing this as a means of proving anthropogenic global warming?
I disagree with man-made global warming but I do agree with the goal of moving away from oil and other resources that are causing massive amount of erosion and damage to our planet. I am all for clean air, clean water etc. but that doesn’t mean I have to believe in something that has been proven false scientifically. Have to run.

Jason
May 31, 2010 4:10 pm

Alex-global energy is supplied by solar and wind-You are talking out of your communist backside.
CO2/AGW Has no bearing on temperature we have a volatile ball of fire up in the sky and a world that keeps on turning.
Taxing CO2 will have no bearing on temperature-it’s the next round of fraudulent derivatives.
Stick your phoney wind farms, saving penguins, etc. and start planning for WW3 you deluded hippy socialist.

Indulis Bernsteins
June 2, 2010 9:00 am

Isn’t winning a debate purely about who has the best oratory skills. Don’t debates often start with one side being given a viewpoint to argue at random, irrespective of their beliefs or facts?
A discussion irrespective of facts sounds like just the sort of thing Monckton could win!
If you are a climate change sceptic, you should see your hero’s claims and references being shredded one by one. Often by the authors of teh papers he is using to back up claims of no climate change.

June 2, 2010 9:50 am

“Isn’t winning a debate purely about who has the best oratory skills.”
No. Facts won this debate. Monckton had them, his opponents didn’t. The same facts are changing the global debate about whether a minor trace gas controls the climate, and the CAGW promoters are losing the argument because they lack testable facts.
I can’t improve on Zane’s comment @May 31, 2010 at 11:59 am above. Monckton used peer reviewed facts to win the debate. It is the same method he uses to win all his debates.

Don Matteo
June 3, 2010 3:09 pm

I ♥ CO2

Indulis Bernsteins
June 6, 2010 1:01 am

“No. Facts won this debate.”
No, incorrect and unsubstantiated claims which misrepresented the papers and science quoted by Monckton won the debate. Check out the web- John Abrahams reply to Monckton. An hour well spent, as each major claim by Monckton is taken back to the original papers and science quoted, and it is shown that these have been totally misprepresented by Monckton. In many cases the original authors of the papers used by Monckton were contacted regarding the claims, and they confirmed that Monckton’s “intepretations” were actually the opposite of what was claimed by Monckton.
See John Abraham’s presentation on the failings of Monckton’s scientific claims

June 6, 2010 4:36 am

The link above is the same link posted up-thread. Repeating it does not give it any additional validity.
Related article, with comments debunking Abrahams: click
Facts won the debate, and the fact that Mr Abrahams never contacted Lord Monckton makes it obvious that Abrahams is putting out a hit piece, no?

Zane
June 6, 2010 11:51 am

Indulius, Smokey commented on a post further up on the list. This is part of that post:
You have put a lot of hard work into your presentation and still I am saddened by the lack of ability to distinguish between ‘models’ and actual science. You, in your presentation, continually misrepresent Monckton’s claims or say that he is misquoting a scientist. Simply because an author presents data does not necessitate that the conclusion about the data will be the same as another’s interpretation of the data. Nor does the data all interrelate to the conclusion. Thus far in your presentation all I see are scientists saying “anthropogenic” global warming is occuring but none of them are providing any facts. Rather, their own findings on various issues are being touted as evidence for man-made global warming when in fact their evidence is derived from the IPCC findings or ‘models’ dealing with future predictions.
I was eager to see something of significance in your presentation but seeing your quotes and emails from the scientists you contacted simply strengthens Monckton’s arguments and once again solidifies the arguments against anthropogenic global warming.
A note to all. Please watch this presentation and make sure to read the whole emails being quoted and also make sure to listen to Moncktons speech that he is referencing with the slides from Monckton. Once you do you will have a much better picture of how Monckton is shown to be more logical.
The issue is ‘model’ vs ‘science’. Many of the people making claims about antrhopogenic global warming base it off of ‘models’ not science.

GMK
June 7, 2010 5:11 am

Do the readers know that 95% of all statistics are made up ,and that of the 95% ,2% will be true,thats a FACT .
Well done Lord Monckton ,its time these Common Purpose saggy tited lezzers and spunkless men did the world a favour and departed these shore for la la land,
Better yet ,sell up move to Africa they will be happy with the help and we will be rid of 2 million parasites whose big job is more posters telling us what to do.

June 18, 2010 3:39 pm

~SNIP~

Dab
June 21, 2010 4:51 am

While I’m sure this sort of nonsense will blow up deniers skirts what is this meant to prove, this is an event, that as this story states was funded by SPPI a denial group which also funds Monckton, as I post this (a month after the fact) SPPI have buried this as a story it gets no mention in the list of recent events on their main page going back to April. Neither SPPI or this site have even bothered to post further detail on this and a month after, were is the video, Monckton loves to be videoed and to post it on youtube, if he really had won such a debate I would have thought he would be falling over himself to show the world, he has boasted in the past that he can have such things done within days, so were’s the video.

June 21, 2010 4:38 pm

See some interesting information, “Tyranny by Treaty”, at http://bit.ly/d8nXwW

Hellolarious
July 8, 2010 6:48 pm

Al Gore’s private jet is filled with chemtrails

July 13, 2010 12:17 pm

I wish we had some of this common sense over here in America.

jsam
July 14, 2010 11:05 pm

A victory of style over content. The science will out.

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