Today I’m starting what may be a two or three part series having a detailed look inside the Eureka Weather Station and the data it produces. Thanks to the manager of the station Rai LeCotey, we have a lot of new information that had not previously been available on the web. Mr. LeCotey has been most gracious and forthcoming and I commend his openness, which as we have seen in Climate Science, is a rare quality. Here’s an aerial view of the station.
click for a larger image
Ecotretas and I looked at a number of what we identified as errors in data from Eureka, Nunavut, Canada weather station. Some errors are real, such as the January 1st 2007 METAR error (caused by transcription error).
We identified what we thought were errors on July 13th and 14th. The Station Manager Mr. LeCotey says that the July 14th new record high temperature “error” was real (meaning meteorological data, not a transcription error), and a function of wind direction bringing air from the North that has been warmed by terrain. He also says he’s working to get the error on Jan 1 2007 corrected in the record. He’s sent along some photo documentation of the July 14th 2009, event. We’ll get to that in a subsequent post, but first some background on the station itself.
Here’s what the Meteorological Instrument Complex looks like:
Looking Southwest at Eureka Met Instrument Compound -7/24/2004 - click to enlarge
The truck is interesting. Note the blowers on top of the Stevenson Screens for continuous aspiration.
Mr. LeCotey provided this official visitors guide to Eureka, which I have posted as a PDF, link below
He also graciously answered a number of questions. His answers are in blue.
1) The sensors in the Stevenson Screens are electronic it appears. Am I correct in assuming they are cabled to the met office? Of what type are they? Thermistors, RTD? Thermocouple?
We use a remote temperature and dew point measuring system type 2. The dry bulb temperature is measured with a thermistor and the dew point is measured with a dew cell.
2) I notice fan aspirators on the screens. Are these run continuously for the electronic sensors, or are they a holdover of earlier times when wet bulb DP/humidty readings required aspiration?
The sensors are housed in a ventilated Stevenson screen that runs continuously. Psychrometer comparisons between the remote system and our mercury thermometers (in a second Stevenson Screen right next to the remote screen) are done once a week with an thorough calibration done once a year.
3) How far away, in meters, is the Met Instrument compound from the nearest structure, such as the bright blue HQ building?
The Stevenson screens are approx. 40 meters
4) Why are there no readings in the first two hours of the day (00 and 01)?
We only do a surface weather program for 22 hours a day. We have a contract with Nav Canada that only wants aviation weather between 06Z to 03Z inclusive.
Surface weather observations are done on the side (with NavCan funding). Our primary function is that we send up 2 weather balloons a day as our commitment to the WMO. We stay on EST all year (there is no point to go to daylight savings time as an extra hour of daylight does mean anything to us when we have 24 hours of daylight in the summer anyway). Therefore, our last observation is at 22:00 EST (local) and we start observing again at 01:00 EST (local). The 23:00 & 00:00 observations are missing as NavCan does not pay us for those two observations.
5) Do the electronic displays have max/min memories?
Yes, our AES remote temperature and dew point (1987) system (RTD-87) measure the max and min temperatures and stores them in memory until cleared by the observer every six hours on the syno. The RTD measures the temperature & dew point every minute.
6) How often are the meteorological instruments calibrated and how is this done?
Psychrometer comparisons between the remote system and our mercury thermometers (in a second Stevenson Screen right next to the remote screen) are done once a week with an thorough calibration done once a year.
7) How are the hourly METAR reports made. Are they transcribed from the paper form to teletype or Internet data, or some other method?
The METARS are transcribe from the 2322 form into a WinIDE quality assurance software system (WinIDE version 3.0, is used as the principle data input system for human METAR observations within EC) that automatically checks for errors/discrepancies and gives a warning to the observer to make a correction before the observation data will be sent out. The WinIDE system is very good and follows the observing criteria of MANOBS very well. It will not allow an observation to be sent out over the met circuit with any errors or unnatural trends as in the case of the temperature being entered in as +23.0°C when it was supposed to be -23.0°C.
There will be subsequent posts on Eureka coming in the next day or two.
Visitor’s Guide to Eureka
1) The sensors in the Stevenson Screens are electronic it appears. Am I correct in assuming they are cabled to the met office? Of what type are they? Thermistors, PTD? Thermocouple?
We use a remote temperature and dew point measuring system type 2. The dry bulb temperature is measured with a thermistor and the dew point is measured with a dew cell.
2) I notice fan aspirators on the screens. Are these run continuously for the electronic sensors, or are they a holdover of earlier times when wet bulb DP/humidty readings required aspiration?
The sensors are housed in a ventilated Stevenson screen that runs continuously. Psychrometer comparisons between the remote system and our mercury thermometers (in a second Stevenson Screen right next to the remote screen) are done once a week with an thorough calibration done once a year.
3) How far away, in meters, is the Met Instrument compound from the nearest structure, such as the bright blue HQ building?
The Stevenson screens are approx. 40 meters
4) Why are there no readings in the first two hours of the day (00 and 01)?
We only do a surface weather program for 22 hours a day. We have a contract with Nav Canada that only wants aviation weather between 06Z to 03Z inclusive.
Surface weather observations are done on the side (with NavCan funding). Our primary function is that we send up 2 weather balloons a day as our commitment to the WMO. We stay on EST all year (there is no point to go to daylight savings time as an extra hour of daylight does mean anything to us when we have 24 hours of daylight in the summer anyway). Therefore, our last observation is at 22:00 EST (local) and we start observing again at 01:00 EST (local). The 23:00 & 00:00 observations are missing as NavCan does not pay us for those two observations.
5) Do the electronic displays have max/min memories?
Yes, our AES remote temperature and dew point (1987) system (RTD-87) measure the max and min temperatures and stores them in memory until cleared by the observer every six hours on the syno. The RTD measures the temperature & dew point every minute.
6) How often are the meteorological instruments calibrated and how is this done?
Psychrometer comparisons between the remote system and our mercury thermometers (in a second Stevenson Screen right next to the remote screen) are done once a week with an thorough calibration done once a year.
7) How are the hourly METAR reports made. Are they transcribed from the paper form to teletype or Internet data, or some other method?
The METARS are transcribe from the 2322 form into a WinIDE quality assurance software system (WinIDE version 3.0, is used as the principle data input system for human METAR observations within EC) that automatically checks for errors/discrepancies and gives a warning to the observer to make a correction before the observation data will be sent out. The WinIDE system is very good and follows the observing criteria of MANOBS very well. It will not allow an observation to be sent out over the met circuit with any errors or unnatural trends as in the case of the temperature being entered in as +23.0°C when it was supposed to be -23.0°C.
The max & min temperatures are not included in these METAR reports per regional agreements as far as I can see. However they are coded in the SYNOPTIC reports from this station.
stumpy
April 25, 2010 12:55 pm
I was going to mention the winds last time you posted on this, you can have very sudden changes in temperature when mountains are involved. If warm moist air rises over a mountain range and loses its moisture and then drops down the other side it ends up warmer. Here in Christchurch, NZ its can be 8 degrees with a cold damp southerly flow, then in an hour its can be 23 degrees as it turns “nor west” and we get heated dry air from the southern alps. I have experianced quite extreme cases of this in the past, leaving my house in the morning wearing t-shirt and shorts (in winter) and coming back an hour later in snow!
Sorry for the double posting, was half-asleep when did first early morning post. Also, there was an error in the link to the climate_scraper.7z link on my blog page (Thingamablog’s unique idea of what link to the file should be). Link now fixed.
INGSOC
April 25, 2010 4:34 pm
As a Canadian, I am particularly grateful to Mr. LeCotey for his candor and openness. (Are you sure that’s how he spells his name?) With someone like that in charge, the professional professors, grad students and others with agendas will have a much more difficult time fabricating results.
On a more serious note; I would be curious as to how often Dr David “3 speed” Suzuki drops in for a grand tour? It is my guess that they have to fly in extra drums of diesel to cater to his enormous entourage. (To say nothing of his ego) I further surmise that the station could save plenty of funds by filling their balloons with his exhalations during his visit. I wonder if his recorded words would have the same effect, thus making it possible to supply hot gases for the balloons year round in his absence?
I digress…
Gail Combs
April 25, 2010 5:58 pm
To Mr. LeCotey
Thank you for your open response to the questions from WUWT readers. It is appreciated.
Bob Labonza
April 25, 2010 7:43 pm
Has anyone checked all the data on EC’s website for that particular station for the entire month of July 2009? Because EVERY SINGLE DAY contains errors between the hourly observations and the Monthly Summary.
Go ahead and look, and every single one of them in the Summary lists HIGHER temps.Not one of the errors was a lower daily temp. The errors range from 0.5 to 6.0 with a few even higher.
Same thing for August 2009 too. Again, every single temp higher, not a single one lower. There’s a little more to this than the odd random error. Seeing as it’s every day for two months that I checked.
Out of curiosity, I checked the readings for Ottawa for July 2009 and found errors in most ( but not all this time) of the entries, again all stating higher temps in the Monthly Summary than the actual daily observations. Minimum difference is 0.3, some were considerably higher.
I’m going to randomly check other EC weather stations across Canada for random months when time permits.
If this is the quality of data that forms part of the basis of AGW which will result in more dire predictions and whatever legislation may be coming….
Wow. Seriously, check out more Eureka data. And it’s not just Eureka that EC seems to have faulty data for.
As it is an internet custom to demand links from anyone whose opinion may differ form yours, here…. http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=1&Prov=XX&StationID=1750&Year=2009&Month=7&Day=1
On the left you have a link for each day.Note the stated max temperature. Click on an individual day and compare that number to the actual hourly recorded temps.
And as I mentioned, it’s not just July /09 that has “errors”.
Gerald Machnee
April 25, 2010 8:14 pm
RE: Ulric Lyons (18:37:15) :
Gerald Machnee (18:03:24) :
“as the sun would be in the north”
About 55 degree West of North at 22:00hrs.
___________________
I meant in the general northerly direction.
How do you obtain 55 degrees west of north?
Thanks,
Gerald
melinspain (10:56:04) :
Ale Gorney (22:29:18) :
Ale, if you see the visitor guide in point “2.3.10 Emergency conditons…you read…….An emergency consists of fires, polar bear sightings…………”
…—…—…
(Robt wonders when the polar bears will learn that creating fire “on” the buildings will force the people “out” of the buildings …..
AnonyMoose
April 25, 2010 9:41 pm
Bob Labonza (19:43:50) :
Has anyone checked all the data on EC’s website for that particular station for the entire month of July 2009? Because EVERY SINGLE DAY contains errors between the hourly observations and the Monthly Summary.
I suspect they’re differences and not errors. If the high or low temperature happens during an hour but not at the start of an hour, the hourly record won’t show the same number. The daily extremes may be coming from devices which record the maximum and minimum during the entire period.
Has anyone checked all the data on EC’s website for that particular station for the entire month of July 2009? Because EVERY SINGLE DAY contains errors between the hourly observations and the Monthly Summary.
The Eureka station uses a min-max thermometer that measures the temperature every minute. So the max temperature and the hourly temperature will be different. In addition, they don’t use the average of the hourly temperatures or the average of the hourly max and hourly min, to calculate the daily mean temperature. Instead, they use the average of the day’s instantaneous high and low … seems goofy, but there it is.
I don’t know if they are using the average of the minute-by-minute temps for the hourly value. If not, they should be … perhaps Mr. Lecotey could enlighten us about that. I suspect that they don’t use the average, but instead use the reading on the hour … but what do I know?
Bob Labonza
April 25, 2010 10:00 pm
….AnonyMoose (21:41:59) :
If the high or low temperature happens during an hour but not at the start of an hour, the hourly record won’t show the same number. The daily extremes may be coming from devices which record the maximum and minimum during the entire period.
That might explain it. Can anyone confirm this? That additional observations may be made at times not strictly on the hour? If so , why werent they recorded with the rest of the Daily data? I’m not arguing, just curious.
Since I made my first post, I’ve been looking at EC data for various Canadian cities and various months/ years,comparing the Daily Reports with the Monthly Summary ones.Every single one of them contains the errors I mentioned earlier. Just now looking at Montreal for May 1980 and finding errors for every day I’ve looked at so far. And every error lists the max temp higher than it actually was.
So this isnt something that started recently. Could ALL the Climate Info collected,archived and passed on by Environment Canada be suspect?
Anyone who goes and looks through this stuff will seriously ask themselves the same question.
KevinUK
April 26, 2010 3:23 am
Bob labonza (22:00:58)
“So this isnt something that started recently. Could ALL the Climate Info collected,archived and passed on by Environment Canada be suspect?”
Well have a look atthis colour coded map which shows the rates of warming for the globe for the 1970 to 2010 period. This is for the GISS raw data. http://www.climateapplications.com/GHCN/images/GISSraw1970to2010map.png
and here is the interactive version of that same map. http://www.climateapplications.com/GISSMaps/stationtrends1970to2010raw.asp
Notice something strange about the Canadian stations? Clearly rate of global warming increases significantly immediately as you pass over the 49th parallel from the US to Canada.
Bob Labonza
April 26, 2010 11:22 am
“KevinUK(03:23:45) :
“Notice something strange about the Canadian stations? Clearly rate of global warming increases significantly immediately as you pass over the 49th parallel from the US to Canada.”
Yes, something strange and very pronounced. The difference on that map is very noticeable to say the least.
Some continuing investigation is required here. Based on what I’ve seen so far, it appears that Environment Canada consistently uses higher daily max temps in their Monthly Summary reports than wnat are actually recorded in the Daily Hourly readings.
And it’s not just the little remote stations either.I thought at first that major cities with busy airports would have more accurate readings ( Vancouver,Montreal).They dont.
I’m guessing that the problem is with the way EC compiles the Daily reports into the Monthlies.I think there is no blame at the local weather station level.
But there is something wrong, and wrong on a huge scale.
Rod Smith
April 26, 2010 12:46 pm
Bob Labonza (22:00:58) :
“That might explain it. Can anyone confirm this? That additional observations may be made at times not strictly on the hour? ”
Standard METAR reports are taken at a specific time, usually just prior to the hour to represent the “hourly” report. This allows any central collecting agency to build a “collective bulletin” containing METARS for a specific hour to be transmitted as a collection of observations from a specified geographical area, for example, maybe Eastern Canada. Reports can appear in more than one collective.
Intermediate observations, SPECI (Special off-hour) reports, are taken if conditions vary significantly enough from hourly reports to affect aircraft operations, but temperature changes are not one of the parameters that will trigger a “special” report. Thus the actual max and or min temperatures may or may not appear in standard METAR hourly reports.
Daily max/min temperatures from Eureka are in the Synoptic reports, not METARS, although some countries, the US for example, do transmit max/min temperatures (from some stations) in selected METAR reports. These deviations from WMO spec are called “Regional Agreements” and vary by country around the world.
I could only speculate as to what and how EC processes and archives this data.
Sean Peake
April 26, 2010 12:59 pm
So if the daily Min/Max Temps aren’t shown on the hourly reports, what is the point of producing an hourly report? It seems that, in this case, the record high of 20.9C was a short-lived event—obviously not over an hour in duration—and that a 10 or 20 minute gust can turn the Arctic crimson on GISS charts.
AnonyMoose
April 26, 2010 3:00 pm
Bob Labonza, see the comment Willis Eschenbach (21:58:57), which was probably sent while you were typing your immediately-following comment. You haven’t gone back to reread what others said before your comments.
Bob Labonza and Sean Peake – Eschenbach says there is a separate device which checks once a minute for the highs and lows. As we can see, one advantage of hourly reports is to be able to see if the high or low may be due to something unusual. Doesn’t look like the people being paid to process the data are paying attention to all the data.
AnonyMoose
April 26, 2010 3:04 pm
Anthony, it would be nice if there were comment permalinks displayed to us so we can link to preceding comments. REPLY: It would be nice if there was an edit feature, an image inserter, and every time somebody left a comment I got paid a dime. But wordprss.com, which host this bog will have none of the features. -A
RE:
** Sean Peake (12:59:58) :
So if the daily Min/Max Temps aren’t shown on the hourly reports, what is the point of producing an hourly report? It seems that, in this case, the record high of 20.9C was a short-lived event—obviously not over an hour in duration—and that a 10 or 20 minute gust can turn the Arctic crimson on GISS charts.**
Hourly reports are required for aviation forecasting such as TAF’s (Terminal Aerodrome Forecasts). Cloud, visibility, and wind are also required.
RE Max and Min Temperatures. They are not taken from the hourly readings. They have been done using Maximum and Minimum thermometers where the stations are manned. In unmanned stations they would be done by computer from the thermometers.
RE: SPECI or special reports. The following may now be correct. The criteria have changed and a change of 5 degrees when the temperature is above 20 deg C is now used. So the temperature at Eureka may have been too low for this special.
Sean Peake
April 26, 2010 4:10 pm
AnonyMoose (15:00:59) :
Aye, there’s the rub.
It would be interesting to see 20 years worth of instant data to see how long the temp spikes (up or down) last and what the conditions were at the time.
Rod Smith
April 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Sean Peake: “So if the daily Min/Max Temps aren’t shown on the hourly reports, what is the point of producing an hourly report? It seems that, in this case, the record high of 20.9C was a short-lived event—obviously not over an hour in duration—and that a 10 or 20 minute gust can turn the Arctic crimson on GISS charts.”
There are several reasons for hourly weather reports besides feeding climate analysis and/or GISS. For example, the primary use of METAR reports is for safe aircraft operations. Simultaneous reports give rise to an instantaneous weather snapshot for the globe and are therefore useful in analyses.
A better question is, can you think of any reason safe aircraft operations require a max daily temperature? These operations are much more sensitive to winds, pressure, precip, clouds, visibility, obstructions, etc.
And as for the “crimson on GISS charts,” that sounds like a good question for the gurus at GISS.
Rod Smith
April 26, 2010 4:43 pm
AnonyMoose: “Eschenbach says there is a separate device which checks once a minute for the highs and lows. As we can see, one advantage of hourly reports is to be able to see if the high or low may be due to something unusual. Doesn’t look like the people being paid to process the data are paying attention to all the data.”
Several decades ago, many U.S. weather stations used “Thermographs” to continuously record temperatures. These were sent to Asheville even then, but “processing” would have been a real bear in those days. If memory serves, there were about 2500 observing stations in the U.S. at aerodromes during that time.
Sean Peake
April 26, 2010 5:55 pm
Gerald Machnee (16:09:49), Rod Smith (16:29:27) :
I am assuming that the runway at Eureka is gravel and the only planes that lands on a regular basis Twin Otters, which can land in almost any weather, any temperature so I’m confused about how EC records data because the hourly temps. are not terribly important—unless planes only land on the hour every hour except from 00:00 to 02:00 hrs.
To me what is more important is to see the duration of these temp. anomalies and whether it is correct to put these massive swings that apparently last less than an hour into the record. The way it stands now, EC puts out a monthly record that no one can confirm except EC. Is it “secret” data that can’t be shared (which I doubt) or is it just the way the system is set up? If the latter is true, it needs to be changed.
Gerald Machnee
April 26, 2010 7:58 pm
RE:
Sean Peake (17:55:39) :
Gerald Machnee (16:09:49), Rod Smith (16:29:27) :
I am assuming that the runway at Eureka is gravel and the only planes that lands on a regular basis Twin Otters, which can land in almost any weather, any temperature so I’m confused about how EC records data because the hourly temps. are not terribly important—unless planes only land on the hour every hour except from 00:00 to 02:00 hrs.
To me what is more important is to see the duration of these temp. anomalies and whether it is correct to put these massive swings that apparently last less than an hour into the record. The way it stands now, EC puts out a monthly record that no one can confirm except EC. Is it “secret” data that can’t be shared (which I doubt) or is it just the way the system is set up? If the latter is true, it needs to be changed.
Various planes land there. In the 1970’s an American Globemaster landed there using all the runway.
There is no secret about the data. You can get it within a few days at the following site: http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/Welcome_e.html
Hourly records are necessary to follow trends for public and aviation forecasting and analysis. In Canada some are EC and some are Transport Canada. Maximum and minimum thermometers came into use because an observer checked mercury or alcohol thermometers once an hour. This can be done electronically now. Most average or mean temperatures are calculated by adding the max and min and dividing by 2. It is not the best but has been done that way for years.
You state that hourly temps are not important – maybe for yourself. All the weather elements are important to a forecaster(or to a computer which does a lot of it now). Forecasts are issued in advance, so you cannot stop observations.
I suggest you get a good text book on meteorology such as From the Ground Up which is used in pilot training.
The max & min temperatures are not included in these METAR reports per regional agreements as far as I can see. However they are coded in the SYNOPTIC reports from this station.
I was going to mention the winds last time you posted on this, you can have very sudden changes in temperature when mountains are involved. If warm moist air rises over a mountain range and loses its moisture and then drops down the other side it ends up warmer. Here in Christchurch, NZ its can be 8 degrees with a cold damp southerly flow, then in an hour its can be 23 degrees as it turns “nor west” and we get heated dry air from the southern alps. I have experianced quite extreme cases of this in the past, leaving my house in the morning wearing t-shirt and shorts (in winter) and coming back an hour later in snow!
Sorry for the double posting, was half-asleep when did first early morning post. Also, there was an error in the link to the climate_scraper.7z link on my blog page (Thingamablog’s unique idea of what link to the file should be). Link now fixed.
As a Canadian, I am particularly grateful to Mr. LeCotey for his candor and openness. (Are you sure that’s how he spells his name?) With someone like that in charge, the professional professors, grad students and others with agendas will have a much more difficult time fabricating results.
On a more serious note; I would be curious as to how often Dr David “3 speed” Suzuki drops in for a grand tour? It is my guess that they have to fly in extra drums of diesel to cater to his enormous entourage. (To say nothing of his ego) I further surmise that the station could save plenty of funds by filling their balloons with his exhalations during his visit. I wonder if his recorded words would have the same effect, thus making it possible to supply hot gases for the balloons year round in his absence?
I digress…
To Mr. LeCotey
Thank you for your open response to the questions from WUWT readers. It is appreciated.
Has anyone checked all the data on EC’s website for that particular station for the entire month of July 2009? Because EVERY SINGLE DAY contains errors between the hourly observations and the Monthly Summary.
Go ahead and look, and every single one of them in the Summary lists HIGHER temps.Not one of the errors was a lower daily temp. The errors range from 0.5 to 6.0 with a few even higher.
Same thing for August 2009 too. Again, every single temp higher, not a single one lower. There’s a little more to this than the odd random error. Seeing as it’s every day for two months that I checked.
Out of curiosity, I checked the readings for Ottawa for July 2009 and found errors in most ( but not all this time) of the entries, again all stating higher temps in the Monthly Summary than the actual daily observations. Minimum difference is 0.3, some were considerably higher.
I’m going to randomly check other EC weather stations across Canada for random months when time permits.
If this is the quality of data that forms part of the basis of AGW which will result in more dire predictions and whatever legislation may be coming….
Wow. Seriously, check out more Eureka data. And it’s not just Eureka that EC seems to have faulty data for.
As it is an internet custom to demand links from anyone whose opinion may differ form yours, here….
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html?timeframe=1&Prov=XX&StationID=1750&Year=2009&Month=7&Day=1
On the left you have a link for each day.Note the stated max temperature. Click on an individual day and compare that number to the actual hourly recorded temps.
And as I mentioned, it’s not just July /09 that has “errors”.
RE: Ulric Lyons (18:37:15) :
Gerald Machnee (18:03:24) :
“as the sun would be in the north”
About 55 degree West of North at 22:00hrs.
___________________
I meant in the general northerly direction.
How do you obtain 55 degrees west of north?
Thanks,
Gerald
Thank you, Boris.
I appreciate your efforts.
melinspain (10:56:04) :
Ale Gorney (22:29:18) :
Ale, if you see the visitor guide in point “2.3.10 Emergency conditons…you read…….An emergency consists of fires, polar bear sightings…………”
…—…—…
(Robt wonders when the polar bears will learn that creating fire “on” the buildings will force the people “out” of the buildings …..
I suspect they’re differences and not errors. If the high or low temperature happens during an hour but not at the start of an hour, the hourly record won’t show the same number. The daily extremes may be coming from devices which record the maximum and minimum during the entire period.
Bob Labonza (19:43:50) :
The Eureka station uses a min-max thermometer that measures the temperature every minute. So the max temperature and the hourly temperature will be different. In addition, they don’t use the average of the hourly temperatures or the average of the hourly max and hourly min, to calculate the daily mean temperature. Instead, they use the average of the day’s instantaneous high and low … seems goofy, but there it is.
I don’t know if they are using the average of the minute-by-minute temps for the hourly value. If not, they should be … perhaps Mr. Lecotey could enlighten us about that. I suspect that they don’t use the average, but instead use the reading on the hour … but what do I know?
….AnonyMoose (21:41:59) :
If the high or low temperature happens during an hour but not at the start of an hour, the hourly record won’t show the same number. The daily extremes may be coming from devices which record the maximum and minimum during the entire period.
That might explain it. Can anyone confirm this? That additional observations may be made at times not strictly on the hour? If so , why werent they recorded with the rest of the Daily data? I’m not arguing, just curious.
Since I made my first post, I’ve been looking at EC data for various Canadian cities and various months/ years,comparing the Daily Reports with the Monthly Summary ones.Every single one of them contains the errors I mentioned earlier. Just now looking at Montreal for May 1980 and finding errors for every day I’ve looked at so far. And every error lists the max temp higher than it actually was.
So this isnt something that started recently. Could ALL the Climate Info collected,archived and passed on by Environment Canada be suspect?
Anyone who goes and looks through this stuff will seriously ask themselves the same question.
Bob labonza (22:00:58)
“So this isnt something that started recently. Could ALL the Climate Info collected,archived and passed on by Environment Canada be suspect?”
Well have a look atthis colour coded map which shows the rates of warming for the globe for the 1970 to 2010 period. This is for the GISS raw data.
http://www.climateapplications.com/GHCN/images/GISSraw1970to2010map.png
and here is the interactive version of that same map.
http://www.climateapplications.com/GISSMaps/stationtrends1970to2010raw.asp
Notice something strange about the Canadian stations? Clearly rate of global warming increases significantly immediately as you pass over the 49th parallel from the US to Canada.
“KevinUK(03:23:45) :
“Notice something strange about the Canadian stations? Clearly rate of global warming increases significantly immediately as you pass over the 49th parallel from the US to Canada.”
Yes, something strange and very pronounced. The difference on that map is very noticeable to say the least.
Some continuing investigation is required here. Based on what I’ve seen so far, it appears that Environment Canada consistently uses higher daily max temps in their Monthly Summary reports than wnat are actually recorded in the Daily Hourly readings.
And it’s not just the little remote stations either.I thought at first that major cities with busy airports would have more accurate readings ( Vancouver,Montreal).They dont.
I’m guessing that the problem is with the way EC compiles the Daily reports into the Monthlies.I think there is no blame at the local weather station level.
But there is something wrong, and wrong on a huge scale.
Bob Labonza (22:00:58) :
“That might explain it. Can anyone confirm this? That additional observations may be made at times not strictly on the hour? ”
Standard METAR reports are taken at a specific time, usually just prior to the hour to represent the “hourly” report. This allows any central collecting agency to build a “collective bulletin” containing METARS for a specific hour to be transmitted as a collection of observations from a specified geographical area, for example, maybe Eastern Canada. Reports can appear in more than one collective.
Intermediate observations, SPECI (Special off-hour) reports, are taken if conditions vary significantly enough from hourly reports to affect aircraft operations, but temperature changes are not one of the parameters that will trigger a “special” report. Thus the actual max and or min temperatures may or may not appear in standard METAR hourly reports.
Daily max/min temperatures from Eureka are in the Synoptic reports, not METARS, although some countries, the US for example, do transmit max/min temperatures (from some stations) in selected METAR reports. These deviations from WMO spec are called “Regional Agreements” and vary by country around the world.
I could only speculate as to what and how EC processes and archives this data.
So if the daily Min/Max Temps aren’t shown on the hourly reports, what is the point of producing an hourly report? It seems that, in this case, the record high of 20.9C was a short-lived event—obviously not over an hour in duration—and that a 10 or 20 minute gust can turn the Arctic crimson on GISS charts.
Bob Labonza, see the comment Willis Eschenbach (21:58:57), which was probably sent while you were typing your immediately-following comment. You haven’t gone back to reread what others said before your comments.
Bob Labonza and Sean Peake – Eschenbach says there is a separate device which checks once a minute for the highs and lows. As we can see, one advantage of hourly reports is to be able to see if the high or low may be due to something unusual. Doesn’t look like the people being paid to process the data are paying attention to all the data.
Anthony, it would be nice if there were comment permalinks displayed to us so we can link to preceding comments.
REPLY: It would be nice if there was an edit feature, an image inserter, and every time somebody left a comment I got paid a dime. But wordprss.com, which host this bog will have none of the features. -A
Bob labonza (22:00:58)
“So this isnt something that started recently. Could ALL the Climate Info collected,archived and passed on by Environment Canada be suspect?”
KevinUK(03:23:45) :
Now you come to mention it the difference across the border is very pronounced.
Even more strange – GISS and Environment Canada produce very different records for identical stations :
http://diggingintheclay.blogspot.com/2010/04/canada-2-ghcngiss-comparisons-with.html
But when the anomalies are calculated the differences are much reduced. I’ve only posted one anomaly graph (Eureka): http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vYBt7hixAMU/S9QmhDzCkaI/AAAAAAAAAhU/gGNM9hbuYpg/s200/Eureka+anom.png
but much the same for other stations.
RE:
** Sean Peake (12:59:58) :
So if the daily Min/Max Temps aren’t shown on the hourly reports, what is the point of producing an hourly report? It seems that, in this case, the record high of 20.9C was a short-lived event—obviously not over an hour in duration—and that a 10 or 20 minute gust can turn the Arctic crimson on GISS charts.**
Hourly reports are required for aviation forecasting such as TAF’s (Terminal Aerodrome Forecasts). Cloud, visibility, and wind are also required.
RE Max and Min Temperatures. They are not taken from the hourly readings. They have been done using Maximum and Minimum thermometers where the stations are manned. In unmanned stations they would be done by computer from the thermometers.
RE: SPECI or special reports. The following may now be correct. The criteria have changed and a change of 5 degrees when the temperature is above 20 deg C is now used. So the temperature at Eureka may have been too low for this special.
AnonyMoose (15:00:59) :
Aye, there’s the rub.
It would be interesting to see 20 years worth of instant data to see how long the temp spikes (up or down) last and what the conditions were at the time.
Sean Peake: “So if the daily Min/Max Temps aren’t shown on the hourly reports, what is the point of producing an hourly report? It seems that, in this case, the record high of 20.9C was a short-lived event—obviously not over an hour in duration—and that a 10 or 20 minute gust can turn the Arctic crimson on GISS charts.”
There are several reasons for hourly weather reports besides feeding climate analysis and/or GISS. For example, the primary use of METAR reports is for safe aircraft operations. Simultaneous reports give rise to an instantaneous weather snapshot for the globe and are therefore useful in analyses.
A better question is, can you think of any reason safe aircraft operations require a max daily temperature? These operations are much more sensitive to winds, pressure, precip, clouds, visibility, obstructions, etc.
And as for the “crimson on GISS charts,” that sounds like a good question for the gurus at GISS.
AnonyMoose: “Eschenbach says there is a separate device which checks once a minute for the highs and lows. As we can see, one advantage of hourly reports is to be able to see if the high or low may be due to something unusual. Doesn’t look like the people being paid to process the data are paying attention to all the data.”
Several decades ago, many U.S. weather stations used “Thermographs” to continuously record temperatures. These were sent to Asheville even then, but “processing” would have been a real bear in those days. If memory serves, there were about 2500 observing stations in the U.S. at aerodromes during that time.
Gerald Machnee (16:09:49), Rod Smith (16:29:27) :
I am assuming that the runway at Eureka is gravel and the only planes that lands on a regular basis Twin Otters, which can land in almost any weather, any temperature so I’m confused about how EC records data because the hourly temps. are not terribly important—unless planes only land on the hour every hour except from 00:00 to 02:00 hrs.
To me what is more important is to see the duration of these temp. anomalies and whether it is correct to put these massive swings that apparently last less than an hour into the record. The way it stands now, EC puts out a monthly record that no one can confirm except EC. Is it “secret” data that can’t be shared (which I doubt) or is it just the way the system is set up? If the latter is true, it needs to be changed.
RE:
Sean Peake (17:55:39) :
Gerald Machnee (16:09:49), Rod Smith (16:29:27) :
I am assuming that the runway at Eureka is gravel and the only planes that lands on a regular basis Twin Otters, which can land in almost any weather, any temperature so I’m confused about how EC records data because the hourly temps. are not terribly important—unless planes only land on the hour every hour except from 00:00 to 02:00 hrs.
To me what is more important is to see the duration of these temp. anomalies and whether it is correct to put these massive swings that apparently last less than an hour into the record. The way it stands now, EC puts out a monthly record that no one can confirm except EC. Is it “secret” data that can’t be shared (which I doubt) or is it just the way the system is set up? If the latter is true, it needs to be changed.
Various planes land there. In the 1970’s an American Globemaster landed there using all the runway.
There is no secret about the data. You can get it within a few days at the following site:
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/Welcome_e.html
Hourly records are necessary to follow trends for public and aviation forecasting and analysis. In Canada some are EC and some are Transport Canada. Maximum and minimum thermometers came into use because an observer checked mercury or alcohol thermometers once an hour. This can be done electronically now. Most average or mean temperatures are calculated by adding the max and min and dividing by 2. It is not the best but has been done that way for years.
You state that hourly temps are not important – maybe for yourself. All the weather elements are important to a forecaster(or to a computer which does a lot of it now). Forecasts are issued in advance, so you cannot stop observations.
I suggest you get a good text book on meteorology such as From the Ground Up which is used in pilot training.